Author Topic: What picture do you see in your mind?  (Read 60630 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #60 on: Sep 25, 2007, 04:06 PM »
Yes, they are endearing.  They show his youth and immaturity.  He needs to be accepted by Ennis; he needs to be laughed at, the center of attention.  Just like a little boy.

It is the little boy in Jack that we love best, perhaps...


Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #61 on: Sep 25, 2007, 04:07 PM »
 

           Yes looks that have great depth looking through the windows of their soul.

Such looks are the ones that are remembered.  :)


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #62 on: Oct 03, 2007, 09:50 AM »
I don´t know why,but often I think of Ennis and Jack when young,in the beguinning of their relationship,when they´re only friends and they´re opening to each other little by little,when they gave each other the tenderness and confidence they needed from their childhood.I suppose because everything was allright between them and their tragedy hadn´t began.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #63 on: Oct 05, 2007, 03:44 AM »
I don´t know why,but often I think of Ennis and Jack when young,in the beguinning of their relationship,when they´re only friends and they´re opening to each other little by little,when they gave each other the tenderness and confidence they needed from their childhood.I suppose because everything was allright between them and their tragedy hadn´t began.
Yeah, that's my favorite part of the movie, too. It's the part when each take on a bit of the other - Ennis becoming more open and confident, willing to stand up for what he and Jack needs, instead of being bullied by Aguierre - Jack becoming a better cowboy, learning from Ennis what his father never taught him. And they both become more protective of each other.

The later parts as they grow older, Ennis becomes too absorbed in his own troubles with Elma, with money that during their ride across the river, he looked miserable instead of the happy excited person when they first met. Jack was becoming frustrated with the increasingly infrequent rendez-vous, thinking it was Ennis losing interest, not understanding the troubles Ennis was going through. By the river, when Ennis asked Jack if things with Laureen were normal, Jack had no idea  what Ennis was feeling, in spite of the divorce. In a way, Jack was beginning to drift away himself, having found an outlet in Mexico.

Yeah, when I think of Ennis and Jack, it is in the summer of '63 or four years later, when they were in the motel, or by the river, Ennis looking up into heaven. Pure and untroubled.

But when I think of Ennis by himself, it is always the last few scenes. Those scenes of Ennis by himself are my favorite, to see his transformation from "I can't stand this any more Jack" to "Jack I swear!"
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #64 on: Oct 05, 2007, 09:17 AM »
Yeah,I think one of the questions that makes so nice the first times of their relationship is seeing that each one of them knows how to increase qualities that are lacking in the other:Ennis learns to be more open and talkative,and even a little rebel-when he disobeys Aguirre´s rules to please Jack,f.e.-,while this one learns to be more responsible in his duties.At the same time,they care and look for the other somehow,as they never be since their childhood by their mothers and that they really need.I said once that they´re complementarily differents and differently complementaries...
But also I agree with you in that last scenes with Ennis alone are beautiful in their tragedy because they´re a life´s revelation, a real change in his way of seeing life...Although his transformation,for me,beguins in the conversation with Cassie,that allows him to realize things he had been blind about before it.
« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2007, 10:17 AM by myprivatejack »
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline lamusica

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #65 on: Oct 05, 2007, 06:55 PM »
I think it truly hurt Ennis when Cassie cried and walked out.  He knew he had really hurt her without really realizing it, but now he had to face the fact that he had been cruel to her.  He never felt that way about Alma.  I don't think he ever thought he was to blame for the divorce or for any of the strife in their marriage.  What do you think?
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #66 on: Oct 06, 2007, 12:02 AM »
Yeah,I think one of the questions that makes so nice the first times of their relationship is seeing that each one of them knows how to increase qualities that are lacking in the other:Ennis learns to be more open and talkative,and even a little rebel-when he disobeys Aguirre´s rules to please Jack,f.e.-,while this one learns to be more responsible in his duties.At the same time,they care and look for the other somehow,as they never be since their childhood by their mothers and that they really need.I said once that they´re complementarily differents and differently complementaries...
But also I agree with you in that last scenes with Ennis alone are beautiful in their tragedy because they´re a life´s revelation, a real change in his way of seeing life...Although his transformation,for me,beguins in the conversation with Cassie,that allows him to realize things he had been blind about before it.
Yes, I think you are so right, and that in this case, "You complete me" is absolutely right on. I can't imagine Jack packing all by himself, at the end of the summer, if it hadn't been Ennis' influence earlier on. "You got to stick it out, Jack" with getting the count right for Aguirre, if we want to work again. I think it is also why Jack tried not to make waves and allowed to be bullied more than before. He wanted the chance to work with Ennis again. Ironically, Aguirre fired them, and kicked him out the next summer.

Yes, I agree with you that Ennis was transformed, hearing Cassie said tearfully, girls don't fall in love with fun...and running out the door. The look on Heath's face is priceless. From that moment on, I feel that Ennis began to stand taller, and walk with more bounce. He felt like a great weight had been lifted off his shoulder.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #67 on: Oct 05, 2008, 05:51 AM »
I think I prefer the young look of them...I mean I am crazy for jack..I find alot of sweetness in his look....he has staring eyes that can look right through the real Ennis....he is filled with passion and warmth..a rear combination :)......the 1st look he gave to ennis and then looked the other side was so charming..

I like the introverted look of the young Ennis..the shy and caotious look he gave to jack when he 1st saw him and then looked away...the 1st scene of the film with these 2 is briiliant and just perfect....

I always have the young picture of theirs in my eyes.....when they 1st met, the times they spoke on Brokeback mountain initially when they got to know each other, the FNIT and SNIT...

That was the time they were completely themselves...they felt as if their world is brokeback mountain and they r 1 soul in 2 bodies united in the midst of nature and silence <^(

Offline atalley

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #68 on: Oct 05, 2008, 02:41 PM »
Great post Smartestsonia!   I think the pics that come to my mind are the Dozey Embrace and SNIT.  So loving and tender...makes me warm all over! <^(

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #69 on: Oct 06, 2008, 04:55 AM »
awwww...Thanks Atalley ^f^

I love those scenes u have mentioned...Its pure love that they share...they found and felt true love...their relationship blossomed on Brokeback mountain during their young life...In the end of the film when Ennis hugs Jack's shirt and smells it to feel Jack he remembers Brokeback mountain and everything that happened there..this included those early memories as to how they became friends and then lovers..those memories were a great comfort to his wounded heart..he lived with those memories for the rest of his life...
To me the enire film is precious and dear..The early stage of their relationship is so beautiful and how they realized that they love each....it could not be denied and it was a part of them...infact became a part of them forever <^(

babytammy7

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #70 on: Oct 06, 2008, 09:27 AM »
I think I prefer the young look of them...I mean I am crazy for jack..I find alot of sweetness in his look....he has staring eyes that can look right through the real Ennis....he is filled with passion and warmth..a rear combination :)......the 1st look he gave to ennis and then looked the other side was so charming..

I like the introverted look of the young Ennis..the shy and caotious look he gave to jack when he 1st saw him and then looked away...the 1st scene of the film with these 2 is briiliant and just perfect....

I always have the young picture of theirs in my eyes.....when they 1st met, the times they spoke on Brokeback mountain initially when they got to know each other, the FNIT and SNIT...

That was the time they were completely themselves...they felt as if their world is brokeback mountain and they r 1 soul in 2 bodies united in the midst of nature and silence <^(

awwww...Thanks Atalley ^f^

I love those scenes u have mentioned...Its pure love that they share...they found and felt true love...their relationship blossomed on Brokeback mountain during their young life...In the end of the film when Ennis hugs Jack's shirt and smells it to feel Jack he remembers Brokeback mountain and everything that happened there..this included those early memories as to how they became friends and then lovers..those memories were a great comfort to his wounded heart..he lived with those memories for the rest of his life...
To me the enire film is precious and dear..The early stage of their relationship is so beautiful and how they realized that they love each....it could not be denied and it was a part of them...infact became a part of them forever
<^(

Gorgeous posts, Cleo. I totally agree with you; you just said so beautifully what I've always thought. I so love that first scene (the opening scene) and their time in BBM.  <^( <^( And I get sad every time I see it because I know what happens next, all the pain, the hurt and sadness... :\'( :\'(

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #71 on: Oct 07, 2008, 07:30 AM »
Gorgeous posts, Cleo. I totally agree with you; you just said so beautifully what I've always thought. I so love that first scene (the opening scene) and their time in BBM.  <^( <^( And I get sad every time I see it because I know what happens next, all the pain, the hurt and sadness... :\'( :\'(
Thanks Tammy ^f^...This picture I have in my mind is very dear to me....The first look they gave to each other has frozen in my mind...its like the first look of something u feel u want and resist..very conflicting and avoiding look as well as very obvious that they wanted to know each other more.....The look they gave each other when Ennis talks about his past and Jack says thats the most he heard from Ennis in 2 weeks is very sweet and charming..

Its a natural bond that they shared which grew so beautifully...it was so meant to be...The formation of their relationship made them aware of what they need in life...they knew they needed each other..and as u say we know what will happen next and that pains us...how Ennis will resist his feelings and Jack trying to persude Ennis to live together and how its goes on for years...after all the pain they go through what really holds them on and binds them inspite of all the restrictions and the fears is the love they shared that grew in Brokeback mountain..thats why the young picture is treasured and cherished by me...a picture of eternal, pure, true and unbreakable love <^(

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #72 on: Oct 13, 2008, 07:57 AM »
I don´t know why,but often I think of Ennis and Jack when young,in the beguinning of their relationship,when they´re only friends and they´re opening to each other little by little,when they gave each other the tenderness and confidence they needed from their childhood.I suppose because everything was allright between them and their tragedy hadn´t began.

Thanks MPJ.  I agree that there is something pristine and palin beautiful in the youthful Ennis and Jack.  It is a sense of discovery and awakening, perhaps?


Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #73 on: Oct 13, 2008, 08:00 AM »
I think it truly hurt Ennis when Cassie cried and walked out.  He knew he had really hurt her without really realizing it, but now he had to face the fact that he had been cruel to her.  He never felt that way about Alma.  I don't think he ever thought he was to blame for the divorce or for any of the strife in their marriage.  What do you think?

It reminded me of the way Alma Jr. straight-talked Cassie, only the scene between Ennis and Cassie was truly defining.  Like you, I think Ennis realized how crule he was to Cassie (and by reflection, to Jack) only in thr end.  It is interesting how Cassie became a catalyst to Ennis's gradual but deepening realization of his love for Jack.


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #74 on: Oct 14, 2008, 10:30 AM »
Thanks MPJ.  I agree that there is something pristine and palin beautiful in the youthful Ennis and Jack.  It is a sense of discovery and awakening, perhaps?

Thanks for having "resuscitated" a rather old post of mine,Thomas¡.Well,not many days ago,Smartestsonia ha said it much better than me;that Ennis and Jack younger images bring to us a sense of innocence,purity and,yes,why not? the sense of discovery and awakening you have mentioned.It's that time when both of them were discovering and awakening together to a relationship that they builded together too; and all the sensations and feelings,the freedom to live them,never would be the same,even after their reunion after four years,than the ones the had on the mountain.If you look at it well,it's almost as two different stories,two different movies before and after BBM for the two of them...
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #75 on: Oct 15, 2008, 07:34 AM »
I didn't even notice that they were old posts!  :)

Smartestsonia's insight resonates with me also.  There is an incomparable sense of purity and freshness in the beginning scenes -- and not just because of the wonderful scenery and the beauty of BBM.  The natural beauty is very much matched by the beauty of the younger Jack and Ennis -- and the beauty surrounding them is thus amplified.  In more ways than one, the starting scenes up on BBM signify a sort of "dawn" of life.  It would not be too strong to call it a "birth".  I think this image of a youthful Ennis and Jack suspatins us -- even long after the freshness and beauty had started to fray in the later years...

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #76 on: Oct 15, 2008, 08:37 AM »
Thanks MPJ and Thomas  ^f^

The pure love, tender affection and the connection that had when they first met and became friends was so intact in their minds and hearts that it remained as fresh as forever..That is something what they share which is very sacred to them and nothing and no one can take that away from them …

Falling in love and getting to know someone at a deeper level means lot to everyone…it was very precious to them as the way they saw each other...Ennis was sweet and reserved and jack was warm, empathetic and caring…Those images obviously meant a lot to them and they held those images and couldn’t let go of it and that’s why they knew that it was for real…Even when they grew older these younger images were there in their minds and hearts as they were the foundation of their relationship and will be inseparable from them.

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #77 on: Oct 16, 2008, 07:45 AM »
Thanks MPJ and Thomas  ^f^

The pure love, tender affection and the connection that had when they first met and became friends was so intact in their minds and hearts that it remained as fresh as forever..That is something what they share which is very sacred to them and nothing and no one can take that away from them …

Falling in love and getting to know someone at a deeper level means lot to everyone…it was very precious to them as the way they saw each other...Ennis was sweet and reserved and jack was warm, empathetic and caring…Those images obviously meant a lot to them and they held those images and couldn’t let go of it and that’s why they knew that it was for real…Even when they grew older these younger images were there in their minds and hearts as they were the foundation of their relationship and will be inseparable from them.


I agree, smartestsonia.  I think all of us would agree that the "attraction of opposites" plays a role in all this, but as you say here, their perception of the other's "otherness" goes at a much deeper level and meaning.  Specifically, the view that the other was the element the completed himself, and not just complemented himself. 

Offline gothica_vanessa

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #78 on: Oct 21, 2008, 03:55 PM »
WOW tammy, nice topic here :)

i love them young, because every time, i can't help but think that they have a chance to make the movie turns out differently. youth = hope, i guess.

i love them older, not that they are sexier, but they are, as you say, "richer". but the end kills me, so it's more painful than sexy to see them at that age. (movie speaking of course, in my mind, you know well enough they got the chance to work past all the sorrow and the hurt and the heartbreak and ... well, find hope again :))

what i mean i guess is that i can't choose. and if i had to choose, i guess my answer will change with my age. you would have ask me 10 years ago, i would have told you them at 19. ask me in 10 years and i probably will tell you them at 39. but now, well, i'll go for them around 29, reunion after but still the good happy years, before that damn november day in 1975 :(

vanessa
He would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets. There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can’t fix it you’ve got to stand it. *crying my eyes out*

Light a candle for Heath :
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=heath

babytammy7

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #79 on: Oct 21, 2008, 04:17 PM »
what i mean i guess is that i can't choose. and if i had to choose, i guess my answer will change with my age. you would have ask me 10 years ago, i would have told you them at 19. ask me in 10 years and i probably will tell you them at 39. but now, well, i'll go for them around 29, reunion after but still the good happy years, before that damn november day in 1975 :(

vanessa

I couldn't agree more. I love all your replies.  <^( <^( <^( I'm so happy you're here.

I think I just love them from 19 to 41 (Ennis at the end of the film); I love them at all ages and I love them in every way and in every scene.

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #80 on: Oct 22, 2008, 08:01 AM »
I go back and forth between the younger and older Ennis and Jack.  But I know that up there at the apex is the image of the young Ennis and Jack in the Dozy Embrace.  The nadir is the older Ennis and Jack of the final confrontation.  In the former, we see Ennis embracing Jack.  In the latter, we see Jack embracing Ennis.


babytammy7

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #81 on: Oct 22, 2008, 08:51 AM »
I go back and forth between the younger and older Ennis and Jack.  But I know that up there at the apex is the image of the young Ennis and Jack in the Dozy Embrace.  The nadir is the older Ennis and Jack of the final confrontation.  In the former, we see Ennis embracing Jack.  In the latter, we see Jack embracing Ennis.

That's beautiful, Thomas, and I agree with you all the way. I mean, I'm just in love with the DE, my favorite young Ennis and Jack, and, like I said before in this thread, when I think about older Ennis and Jack I always see in my mind the confrontation scene.
Love your last line, friend.  ^f^

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #82 on: Oct 22, 2008, 09:03 AM »
That's beautiful, Thomas, and I agree with you all the way. I mean, I'm just in love with the DE, my favorite young Ennis and Jack, and, like I said before in this thread, when I think about older Ennis and Jack I always see in my mind the confrontation scene.
Love your last line, friend.  ^f^

The film has many beautiful and moving mirror images and bookends, don't you agree.  Truthfully, the DE is for me the single most memorable image of Ennis and Jack...


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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #83 on: Oct 22, 2008, 09:07 AM »
The film has many beautiful and moving mirror images and bookends, don't you agree.  Truthfully, the DE is for me the single most memorable image of Ennis and Jack...


AMEN!!  <^( <^(

And you know, for Jack, that's the best memory about their love, and something inside of me tells me that Ennis loved that moment too, that's special time and place when he was able to hold Jack, to hug him and share with him the adorable memory of his mom. Just...MOVING!!

Offline atalley

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #84 on: Oct 22, 2008, 11:35 AM »
I totally agree about the DE...such a special time in their relationship.   <^(

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #85 on: Oct 22, 2008, 11:39 AM »
The film has many beautiful and moving mirror images and bookends, don't you agree.  Truthfully, the DE is for me the single most memorable image of Ennis and Jack...

I agree too. :c)  For me,it's like the confirmation that their love went far beyong a mere sexual relationship;that it was LOVE,with capital letters.And also for Ennis,because in it he wanted to share with Jack a loving and caring memory of his childhood;nursing,to say it in some way,his lover,his love's object,as he was nursed by his mother when he was also her love's object.Beautiful scene where,moreover,they always have seemed to me more gorgeous that in any other... <^(
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline gothica_vanessa

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #86 on: Oct 23, 2008, 03:30 AM »
I go back and forth between the younger and older Ennis and Jack.  But I know that up there at the apex is the image of the young Ennis and Jack in the Dozy Embrace.  The nadir is the older Ennis and Jack of the final confrontation.  In the former, we see Ennis embracing Jack.  In the latter, we see Jack embracing Ennis.

I agree too. :c)  For me,it's like the confirmation that their love went far beyong a mere sexual relationship;that it was LOVE,with capital letters.And also for Ennis,because in it he wanted to share with Jack a loving and caring memory of his childhood;nursing,to say it in some way,his lover,his love's object,as he was nursed by his mother when he was also her love's object.Beautiful scene where,moreover,they always have seemed to me more gorgeous that in any other... <^(

yep thomas, i love that too a lot in bbm, how things are often mirrored
i prefer them in the DE than by the lake, the first "hug" is far more happy than the second (which is beautiful too but just too #$%!$^!^!@%$^$ sad, desperate and "this is the end" kinda thing)
the DE ... happy sigh sigh sigh .... who doesn't fall for the DE, he !!! :)
lovely moving words, privatejack :)
thanks
vanessa
He would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets. There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can’t fix it you’ve got to stand it. *crying my eyes out*

Light a candle for Heath :
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=heath

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #87 on: Oct 23, 2008, 11:16 AM »
yep thomas, i love that too a lot in bbm, how things are often mirrored
i prefer them in the DE than by the lake, the first "hug" is far more happy than the second (which is beautiful too but just too #$%!$^!^!@%$^$ sad, desperate and "this is the end" kinda thing)
the DE ... happy sigh sigh sigh .... who doesn't fall for the DE, he !!! :)
lovely moving words, privatejack :)
thanks
vanessa

You're welcome,Vanessa¡  :^^) Yes,I also prefer the DE than the one in the lake.Because this last one is the sign of a easier love after so many years,it's true; but,as you say,it's also a love without hope. :\'(
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #88 on: Oct 24, 2008, 08:10 AM »
AMEN!!  <^( <^(

And you know, for Jack, that's the best memory about their love, and something inside of me tells me that Ennis loved that moment too, that's special time and place when he was able to hold Jack, to hug him and share with him the adorable memory of his mom. Just...MOVING!!

I had always wondered whether Ennis hugging the shirts in Jack's closet is supposed to indicate a kind of remembrance of the DE...

Thanks Tammy.  :)


Offline tpe

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Re: What picture do you see in your mind?
« Reply #89 on: Oct 24, 2008, 08:13 AM »
I agree too. :c)  For me,it's like the confirmation that their love went far beyong a mere sexual relationship;that it was LOVE,with capital letters.And also for Ennis,because in it he wanted to share with Jack a loving and caring memory of his childhood;nursing,to say it in some way,his lover,his love's object,as he was nursed by his mother when he was also her love's object.Beautiful scene where,moreover,they always have seemed to me more gorgeous that in any other... <^(

And I think what made it all the more beautiful and memorable for Jack was the knowledge that Ennis did this almost subconsicously/spontaneously.  If we ever want to catch a true and unguarded glimpse of Ennis's love for Jack, it is in the DE.  It was imperfect, but it was all that Ennis had.