Topic: scenes of observation

[lightnin flat]

Hello LF.  As I had said before, Jack moving on with Randall does not mean that the love is dead.  This happens all the time in real life, when our relationships with our great loves become untenable, and we try to move on, but never forget.  Such I believe is the case of Jack.  I would tend to believe Gyllenhaal's opinion that he could have moved on, but I don't think it meant that the love was dead.

 
          What is that saying if you cant be with the one you love ,love the one your with.No matter where jack or ennis went or who they ended up with the love they had for each other would never of died. But i just cant see them not seeing each other ever again i know it happens in real life and you just havto move on . It is jack the one i see not being able to move on not so much ennis although jack appeared to be moving on so we were lead to believe with randall.

[tpe]

 
          What is that saying if you cant be with the one you love ,love the one your with.No matter where jack or ennis went or who they ended up with the love they had for each other would never of died. But i just cant see them not seeing each other ever again i know it happens in real life and you just havto move on . It is jack the one i see not being able to move on not so much ennis although jack appeared to be moving on so we were lead to believe with randall.

Honestly, it is hard for me also to think that they would never see each other again.  That is why Jack's death was such a blow.  But I do recognize that death itself can be a powerful resolution.

[lightnin flat]

Honestly, it is hard for me also to think that they would never see each other again.  That is why Jack's death was such a blow.  But I do recognize that death itself can be a powerful resolution.

   
    If only the story ended differently but if it did we wouldnt be having this conversation doesnt matter how long we discuss this we will never have a answer will we .But in our minds we can end the story how we want  cant we.

[tpe]

   
    If only the story ended differently but if it did we wouldnt be having this conversation doesnt matter how long we discuss this we will never have a answer will we .But in our minds we can end the story how we want  cant we.

I don't mind the tragic ending, LF.  In fact, I love the story all the more because of it.  But I recognize that for many of us, this is not the case.

Sorry if I am now slightly off topic here! 

[lightnin flat]

I don't mind the tragic ending, LF.  In fact, I love the story all the more because of it.  But I recognize that for many of us, this is not the case.

Sorry if I am now slightly off topic here! 

   
    It adds more power to the story ending the way it did.

[jessi]

Hello Jessi.  I think it is better to refer to their love as being intact, even though they may have moved on.  From the words of Jack's dad, Proulx implies that it was Jack's intention to move with Randall to LF.  But yes, I don't think it ever became a reality, although the movie may have suggested more in some of the deleted scenes.

It can be argued that it was better for Jack to have died before he could have acted on his intention to move with Randall.  Although you have said that you cannot imagine this to be so, the possibility is indeed there.  What could have happened after that is hard to imagine.  Ennis of course implied that he could "kill" Jack if he ever found out about things "he didn't know", but could he really have harmed Jack had he found out about Randall?  And then again, would Jack have been content to lose Ennis and build a life with Randall?

All such possibilities, whether we believe it or not, become moot because of jack's death.  The answer is: we will never know.  In that sense, the memory of Jack is intact, even though it closed the door on Ennis forever.

I think I made the mistake of reading her words before seeing the movie and saw it somewhat different because of that.  That love Jack had, the love that held and drove him for all those years is one few ever experience, it's hard to for me to compare jack to anyone I know or even read about, who has loved and moved on.  It would have destroyed him, living in that shadow, missing those arms even if just one more time.  I think the bringing Randall to his daddy's place, even bringing Ennis there, was just his wishful dreaming.  He knew he could never live with a man there, not and his daddy around.  Jack was tired, facing mid life, cornered by his own spirit and will.  If he had tried a life with another man it would have been brief and hurt the other one. There was some hope before he died, that made his death even more tragic, at least in the book.   Take away the OS and we are led places she didn't take us and it's surely easier to believe he was murdered.  The rest, more open and we are suppose to see it each through our own eyes.

However, of course I do not think that move was ever intended, and if happened short lived, but even if he did, even if he did what I think was impossible, end the affair (and if that didn't lesson the love, push it way out of the way he'd surely lost his mind or killed himself, so the love couldn't say as it was), but ennis think he was alive and finding some peace I don't understand how it could be better for him to have died than lived.  And he was still young, to live gave him many options next year or five years from now, him calling it quits could have changed Ennis, anything could happen, wide open.  He died, Ennis is a shell liviing on dreams, he can't come to terms with all he's done, he can't move on with any real kind of life.  Jack's ended and all his dreams and will and wonder and ability to love back did to (except in this story I'm writing, lol).

Please forgive this long rambling post, I'm not usually so passionate.  Actually been told all my life what a downer and unromantic person I am. 

Also new to forums, feel free to move or delete this long piece of fluff, lol, if it isn't where it should be.  Hm, that might be just back in my head.

jessi

[tpe]

I think I made the mistake of reading her words before seeing the movie and saw it somewhat different because of that.  That love Jack had, the love that held and drove him for all those years is one few ever experience, it's hard to for me to compare jack to anyone I know or even read about, who has loved and moved on.  It would have destroyed him, living in that shadow, missing those arms even if just one more time.  I think the bringing Randall to his daddy's place, even bringing Ennis there, was just his wishful dreaming.  He knew he could never live with a man there, not and his daddy around.  Jack was tired, facing mid life, cornered by his own spirit and will.  If he had tried a life with another man it would have been brief and hurt the other one. There was some hope before he died, that made his death even more tragic, at least in the book.   Take away the OS and we are led places she didn't take us and it's surely easier to believe he was murdered.  The rest, more open and we are suppose to see it each through our own eyes.

However, of course I do not think that move was ever intended, and if happened short lived, but even if he did, even if he did what I think was impossible, end the affair (and if that didn't lesson the love, push it way out of the way he'd surely lost his mind or killed himself, so the love couldn't say as it was), but ennis think he was alive and finding some peace I don't understand how it could be better for him to have died than lived.  And he was still young, to live gave him many options next year or five years from now, him calling it quits could have changed Ennis, anything could happen, wide open.  He died, Ennis is a shell liviing on dreams, he can't come to terms with all he's done, he can't move on with any real kind of life.  Jack's ended and all his dreams and will and wonder and ability to love back did to (except in this story I'm writing, lol).

Please forgive this long rambling post, I'm not usually so passionate.  Actually been told all my life what a downer and unromantic person I am. 

Also new to forums, feel free to move or delete this long piece of fluff, lol, if it isn't where it should be.  Hm, that might be just back in my head.

jessi

Thanks jessi for sharing this.  Why move or delete it?

If one rules out the possibility of Jack moving on to someone else, then yes, death would have been a blow.  If one considers it possible that Jack would have felt Ennis for another man, then perhaps jack's death would have been "kinder" to Ennis -- if such a determination of relative weights is even possible.

We speak so often of death lifting a burden as much as we speak of death as cutting life at its prime.  For Jack, perhaps it was respite, if not for Ennis.  But in the case of Ennis (as in most survivors), it is never easy to carry on under the slightest shadow of doubt.  However he understood Jack's inevitable intentions, death was not easy to take in.  He suffered either way.  But the suffering may have been tempered by the fact that it made him realize how much Jack had loved him, and how much he himself was lost without Jack. 

There are worse things in life than death itself.  To have loved and to have had the knowledge of being loved is certainly onen thing that touches the meaning of what it means to live.

[jessi]

Thanks jessi for sharing this.  Why move or delete it?

If one rules out the possibility of Jack moving on to someone else, then yes, death would have been a blow.  If one considers it possible that Jack would have felt Ennis for another man, then perhaps jack's death would have been "kinder" to Ennis -- if such a determination of relative weights is even possible.

We speak so often of death lifting a burden as much as we speak of death as cutting life at its prime.  For Jack, perhaps it was respite, if not for Ennis.  But in the case of Ennis (as in most survivors), it is never easy to carry on under the slightest shadow of doubt.  However he understood Jack's inevitable intentions, death was not easy to take in.  He suffered either way.  But the suffering may have been tempered by the fact that it made him realize how much Jack had loved him, and how much he himself was lost without Jack. 

There are worse things in life than death itself.  To have loved and to have had the knowledge of being loved is certainly onen thing that touches the meaning of what it means to live.

I agree, and oh yes there are things far worse than death, but Jack was young, so young and could have had so so much ahead of him.  Ennis loved him enough to either accept his moving on and trying to find peaceful life or Ennis would have tried to do something about it, either way I think he loved him far too much for death to be a blessing.  Kinder? after Jack died kindness was pretty much out of the picture.  He knew Jack loved him and wanted him, only him and if someone else came in his life it would have to do with needing someone because Ennis wouldn't (which i itself, Jack quitting him, been the catalyst to put ennis into motion). Ennis knew how just thinking on this was torture for Jack, Jack wanted one thing and that was ennis. He might find someone else to make life bearable, but loving them would never be part of the equation, and the new relationship would probably be doomed from the get go. Death took that precious life and left Ennis destroyed by what was, could have been and most of all, he had lost the love of his life. And he still had to still let things be to wake and function each day.  No, kind doesn't ring true to me. J He'd want that man he so loved to live with or without him, in my opinion.  Death can be kind, but this one, no no no. Jack deserved a change.

Ever notice how when talking about their tragic lives I start rambling and blubbering, lol.

jessi

[tpe]

I agree, and oh yes there are things far worse than death, but Jack was young, so young and could have had so so much ahead of him.  Ennis loved him enough to either accept his moving on and trying to find peaceful life or Ennis would have tried to do something about it, either way I think he loved him far too much for death to be a blessing.  Kinder? after Jack died kindness was pretty much out of the picture.  He knew Jack loved him and wanted him, only him and if someone else came in his life it would have to do with needing someone because Ennis wouldn't (which i itself, Jack quitting him, been the catalyst to put ennis into motion). Ennis knew how just thinking on this was torture for Jack, Jack wanted one thing and that was ennis. He might find someone else to make life bearable, but loving them would never be part of the equation, and the new relationship would probably be doomed from the get go. Death took that precious life and left Ennis destroyed by what was, could have been and most of all, he had lost the love of his life. And he still had to still let things be to wake and function each day.  No, kind doesn't ring true to me. J He'd want that man he so loved to live with or without him, in my opinion.  Death can be kind, but this one, no no no. Jack deserved a change.

Ever notice how when talking about their tragic lives I start rambling and blubbering, lol.

jessi

That's because it moves you, as it moves us.

[jessi]

That's because it moves you, as it moves us.

It is wonderful to be safe surronded by those who understand and share.

jessi

[tpe]

What about the jewelry that Jack and Lureen wore throughout the movie.

A lot of silver and turquoise, I assume -- typicla of much of the jewelry in the Southwest.  What were the blue stones that Lureen wore in her last scene, speaking with Ennis on the phone?  Were they some form of blue garnet or tourmaline?  They didn't look like sapphires...

[lightnin flat]

What about the jewelry that Jack and Lureen wore throughout the movie.

A lot of silver and turquoise, I assume -- typicla of much of the jewelry in the Southwest.  What were the blue stones that Lureen wore in her last scene, speaking with Ennis on the phone?  Were they some form of blue garnet or tourmaline?  They didn't look like sapphires...

 
           Sorry tpe cant help you on that . 
          But i did notice lureens nails how tacky they looked and they were obviously false when she was talking to ennis on the phone.

[jessi]

 
           Sorry tpe cant help you on that . 
          But i did notice lureens nails how tacky they looked and they were obviously false when she was talking to ennis on the phone.

She looked drawn and tired, mentioned he was only 39.  I think she truly loved him, even if it could never really be, no way no how she could ever have been who he should have for her.  She also looks bitter, maybe about him leaving her, normal reaction, maybe about what never was.  She's not a young women anymore. I think Lureen had every right to be bitter.  Can't blame any of them, they were all so real, so human. Seems Alma did much better, came out better. 

My only regret on my number of post nearing 200 is I'll be an Alma.  I don't dislike her, but I don't at all like her either. 

jessi

[tpe]

What a remarkable transformation Lureen's appearance underwent in this movie, no?  I think hers was the most extreme, but the most convincing.  By comparison, Alma didn't seem to change that much -- looking pretty much the same throughout, no?

[lightnin flat]

She looked drawn and tired, mentioned he was only 39.  I think she truly loved him, even if it could never really be, no way no how she could ever have been who he should have for her.  She also looks bitter, maybe about him leaving her, normal reaction, maybe about what never was.  She's not a young women anymore. I think Lureen had every right to be bitter.  Can't blame any of them, they were all so real, so human. Seems Alma did much better, came out better. 

My only regret on my number of post nearing 200 is I'll be an Alma.  I don't dislike her, but I don't at all like her either. 

jessi

   
   
I am like that with alma didnt feel sorry for her when she saw jack and ennis kissing or when ennis took off with jack up into the mountains at the reunion scene.I did quite like lureen though.
 

[lightnin flat]

   
       Yea lureen did change a lot and i think so did jack .   
       
      Alma didnt appear to change that much and ennis just looked older   
       
       lureens hair changed several times . Jack put on weight and grew that awfull moustache.

[aintfoolin]

I have said this before, but what's up with Jack and the color blue. I assumed this was his blue tent in the last scene? Had to have the blue parka, blue jeans, blue shirt. It was his fav color I suppose.  He wore the color well, brought out those beautiful blue eyes .

Lureen seemed to morph by the end of the film. My sis used the expression, Look, the sun sprouted legs!  Her big blond do in the later scenes was so different than when we first saw her.  Still wonder why Jack married her. She was brash and bordered on arrogance  in the scene with LaShawn and Randall. " husbands don't ever wanna dance with their wives"  why is that Jack? ( with the little nudge) . yeah, jack why is that?  Did  she know more than she let on?  Yeah , she was beautiful and rich, but she does'nt really fit Jack imo. Don't feel the connection at all. Jack wanted Ennis, went after Jimbo, apparently took Randall up on the offer, then back to Ennis.  Did he really love her? except for Ennis I see Jack looking for love in all the wrong places when they just sort of drifted together. Where is the foundation for love  here? I saw a lot of lust, but that's different from being in love with somebody.  obviously, she was concerned with " appearences" . Needless to say, I did'nt like her character much, but respect A. Hathaway's portayal of her as an excellent actress. My observation.

[jessi]

I have said this before, but what's up with Jack and the color blue. I assumed this was his blue tent in the last scene? Had to have the blue parka, blue jeans, blue shirt. It was his fav color I suppose.  He wore the color well, brought out those beautiful blue eyes .

Lureen seemed to morph by the end of the film. My sis used the expression, Look, the sun sprouted legs!  Her big blond do in the later scenes was so different than when we first saw her.  Still wonder why Jack married her. She was brash and bordered on arrogance  in the scene with LaShawn and Randall. " husbands don't ever wanna dance with their wives"  why is that Jack? ( with the little nudge) . yeah, jack why is that?  Did  she know more than she let on?  Yeah , she was beautiful and rich, but she does'nt really fit Jack imo. Don't feel the connection at all. Jack wanted Ennis, went after Jimbo, apparently took Randall up on the offer, then back to Ennis.  Did he really love her? except for Ennis I see Jack looking for love in all the wrong places when they just sort of drifted together. Where is the foundation for love  here? I saw a lot of lust, but that's different from being in love with somebody.  obviously, she was concerned with " appearences" . Needless to say, I did'nt like her character much, but respect A. Hathaway's portayal of her as an excellent actress. My observation.

Again I look into the book as much as the movie, can't help it.  In both they truly seemed to like, care about each other from the first.  Love, well he couldn't because his heart wasn't his own anymore to give, but he cared.  Through the years it must have became very difficult for her, she had to have seen him as a dreamer, unhappy and she didn't know the reason, just knew that she would never be able to make Jack happy.  It wasn't her fault and I'm sure she had to find other ways to make life worthwhile.  In the book she gave up a lot for Jack, she gave up her spoiled status, she didn't have daddy's money till he died and left her the business.  She was rude to Jack, who seemed to care less, because she was unhappy, disappointed, their marriage wasn't good.  Wasn't her fault, wasn't all his either, but remember Jack would have left her in a heartbeat, so what was her worth to him?  I'd say Alma came out the best of the four by a long shot. jmo

[welshwitch]

The beautiful blue eyes may just be those of Jake rather than Jack!

Alma I think is made deliberately dowdy and unattractive, partly to show the relative poverty she and Ennis live in, the backwater where they live and their lack of concern with appearances.

Lureeen with her hair,clothes.jewellery - each one worse than the other IMO - shows the relative affluence of her life and I think also her concern with the materialistic, the impression she makes on observers and her shallowness of character. She and Alma are opposite ends of the same continuum.

[jessi]

The beautiful blue eyes may just be those of Jake rather than Jack!

Alma I think is made deliberately dowdy and unattractive, partly to show the relative poverty she and Ennis live in, the backwater where they live and their lack of concern with appearances.

Lureeen with her hair,clothes.jewellery - each one worse than the other IMO - shows the relative affluence of her life and I think also her concern with the materialistic, the impression she makes on observers and her shallowness of character. She and Alma are opposite ends of the same continuum.

I don't think alma is unattractive or very dowdy, not glamorous, just regular.  As beauitiful as Anne H is it would be as hard to make her dowdy as it would be to make Jake G. plain, lol.  I have no idea why they went so against the book with Lureen's character.  I also think she might not have been so shallow, even in the movie, if Jack could have really loved her.  Cared enough about his life there to stand up to her daddy, but he was looking towards the money, even though I think he cared a lot about her too.  All he ever really wanted, all, was Ennis.  To an observer it could appear that he was somewhat using her, used people often get where they don't care, become shallow, survive.  I don't see the ladies as opposites, but very different.

[tpe]

I have said this before, but what's up with Jack and the color blue. I assumed this was his blue tent in the last scene? Had to have the blue parka, blue jeans, blue shirt. It was his fav color I suppose.  He wore the color well, brought out those beautiful blue eyes .

Lureen seemed to morph by the end of the film. My sis used the expression, Look, the sun sprouted legs!  Her big blond do in the later scenes was so different than when we first saw her.  Still wonder why Jack married her. She was brash and bordered on arrogance  in the scene with LaShawn and Randall. " husbands don't ever wanna dance with their wives"  why is that Jack? ( with the little nudge) . yeah, jack why is that?  Did  she know more than she let on?  Yeah , she was beautiful and rich, but she does'nt really fit Jack imo. Don't feel the connection at all. Jack wanted Ennis, went after Jimbo, apparently took Randall up on the offer, then back to Ennis.  Did he really love her? except for Ennis I see Jack looking for love in all the wrong places when they just sort of drifted together. Where is the foundation for love  here? I saw a lot of lust, but that's different from being in love with somebody.  obviously, she was concerned with " appearences" . Needless to say, I did'nt like her character much, but respect A. Hathaway's portayal of her as an excellent actress. My observation.

More often than not, Jack wore dark shades/colors.  That is why I seem to associate him with the softness of night.

Look, the sun sprouted legs!   

Her look during the dance scene was indeed flamboyant...

[tpe]

Lureeen with her hair,clothes.jewellery - each one worse than the other IMO - shows the relative affluence of her life and I think also her concern with the materialistic, the impression she makes on observers and her shallowness of character. She and Alma are opposite ends of the same continuum.

I feel the same way.  I think as time progressed, it became all a matter of show -- of externals.  She has become all shell, and no feeling?  If there was any feeling left, she certainly fely she had to supress it.

[myprivatejack]

Maybe it´s a nonsense,but,have you noticed in the farewell scene after leaving BBM the way Ennis looks at Jack?I mean,when this says that perhaps he´ll come back to BBM next year,his eyes seems to pray Ennis:-"Please,stay with me...".  :\'( In this moment,Ennis,who has been avoiding look at him at the eye- surely for avoiding also to remain catched in their beauty-takes one or two glances all along Jack´s body...As he wants to have a complete reminder of this body he loves so much.     More :\'(

[jessi]

Maybe it´s a nonsense,but,have you noticed in the farewell scene after leaving BBM the way Ennis looks at Jack?I mean,when this says that perhaps he´ll come back to BBM next year,his eyes seems to pray Ennis:-"Please,stay with me...".  :\'( In this moment,Ennis,who has been avoiding look at him at the eye- surely for avoiding also to remain catched in their beauty-takes one or two glances all along Jack´s body...As he wants to have a complete reminder of this body he loves so much.     More :\'(

 

In the story he had trouble looking at him in the eye because of the bruise from his punch too.  He takes last looks like taking a picture, yeah, I noticed that.  Killer scene. 

jessi

[myprivatejack]

 

In the story he had trouble looking at him in the eye because of the bruise from his punch too.  He takes last looks like taking a picture, yeah, I noticed that.  Killer scene. 

jessi

Oh,Jessi,be romantic,please¡ I know his vision problem because of the punch,but eyes could have a lot of strenght,and more still eyes like Jack/Jake´s  Yes,he seems to take a picture,and all this makes a very sad scene.I love it,however.

[jessi]

Oh,Jessi,be romantic,please¡ I know his vision problem because of the punch,but eyes could have a lot of strenght,and more still eyes like Jack/Jake´s  Yes,he seems to take a picture,and all this makes a very sad scene.I love it,however.

How Ennis must have hurt, enough to make him sick, knowing Jack was going to drive away and not knowing anything to do to stop him.  and oh yes it is so beautiful and so so sad.

jessi

[aintfoolin]

These line of passages from the film intrigue me greatly.

 This is a bitch of an unsatisfactory situation, you used ta come away easy, now it's like seeing the pope"
 
"Jack, I gotta work, In the beginning I just quit the job,  You forget what it's like bein broke all the time"I can't quit this one.
It was hard enough gettin this time"

What I see is Ennis trying to reason with Jack about his financial situation, and how he cannot just pick up at a moment's notice and spend more time with Jack whenever he wanted.  Is he saying Jack has changed since he has married money? Seems to be standing up to Jack in contrast to when they were on BBM, and Jack bitched , Ennis simply took actions to "fix" the problems. But not this time. Why? Is this just another percieved "excuse" to distance himself from Jack.? Or is he justified and legit? And what about Jack? I know he's disappointed about the date change, but Ennis must make a living right?  What changed from " in the beginning"? when Ennis just quit jobs to be with Jack?

[tpe]

These line of passages from the film intrigue me greatly.

 This is a bitch of an unsatisfactory situation, you used ta come away easy, now it's like seeing the pope"
 
"Jack, I gotta work, In the beginning I just quit the job,  You forget what it's like bein broke all the time"I can't quit this one.
It was hard enough gettin this time"

What I see is Ennis trying to reason with Jack about his financial situation, and how he cannot just pick up at a moment's notice and spend more time with Jack whenever he wanted.  Is he saying Jack has changed since he has married money? Seems to be standing up to Jack in contrast to when they were on BBM, and Jack bitched , Ennis simply took actions to "fix" the problems. But not this time. Why? Is this just another percieved "excuse" to distance himself from Jack.? Or is he justified and legit? And what about Jack? I know he's disappointed about the date change, but Ennis must make a living right?  What changed from " in the beginning"? when Ennis just quit jobs to be with Jack?

I think it functions at both.  There is more than a grain of truth to what Ennis said -- he was older now, and it was no longer easy to find work, especially if he had to compete with the younger ones.  But I think it was also a way of distancing himself. 

I don't think it was just the date change that bothered Jack.  It was clear that things were changing for a long time -- perhaps greater reticence on Ennis's part over the years made it more and more difficult for him to remain silent.

The difference then and now is of course age.  Both of them are older know, perhaps more entrenched in some ways, but less stable in others.  For Jack, I do think he felt that time to live the dream was slipping -- that was his primary concern, and not money or work.  He was ready to leave Lureen and the comfort of that life for a more austere life up at LF.  It is telling.

[lightnin flat]

   

   I should imagine another reason ennis could,nt just quit the jobs was because 

   he had child support to pay each month.
   

[myprivatejack]

I think it functions at both.  There is more than a grain of truth to what Ennis said -- he was older now, and it was no longer easy to find work, especially if he had to compete with the younger ones. But I think it was also a way of distancing himself.  

I don't think it was just the date change that bothered Jack.  It was clear that things were changing for a long time -- perhaps greater reticence on Ennis's part over the years made it more and more difficult for him to remain silent.

The difference then and now is of course age.  Both of them are older know, perhaps more entrenched in some ways, but less stable in others.  For Jack, I do think he felt that time to live the dream was slipping -- that was his primary concern, and not money or work.  He was ready to leave Lureen and the comfort of that life for a more austere life up at LF.  It is telling.

Things are seen in a rather different way when one is young and nobody depends on your economic support than when you´re older,with problems for this age and lack of job skills and with children to maintain,you right  .But I think it´s in this scene where we can see better not only this lack of a real communication we´ve spoken about sometimes,but also a kind of shellfishness on the part of both of them.Ennis doesn´t understand that Jack is arriving at a point of his life in which he wants ANSWERS,doesn´t want to wait more for a dream´s doing he´s seeing more and more far,as you tpe say.And this doesn´t understand that Ennis is arriving,on his side,at another point of his life in which all the economical and working questions I´ve indicated before are more dramatically outstanding,because Jack´s better social level avoid him to worry about them...
But there´s something that intrigues me in your post,tpe,and it´s what I´ve put in bold;can you explain,please,why do you think Ennis´s phrase is also a way of distancing himself?Do you really think he wanted to get away from his lover?For tiredness,for fear,for not liking so much how Jack has changed in last times?Jack is at the point of giving up really-IMO since the scene near the river in which Ennis answer was quite cinic even...-,but what about Ennis?Does he want to leave their relationship at that point,although later he realises he wants to see Jack again by sending him the last card?.I wonder.Can you explain the reasons?.