Topic: Ashes - Possible spoiler!

[rikcub]

I couldn't find this question posted elsewhere so here goes....

After seeing BBM four times I am finally thinking that maybe Ennis actually took Jacks ashes when he left the parents house.  I never thought it until the last time I saw the film.  As Ennis walks past the dad he protectively holds the shirts away.  Then Ennis and the mom seem to pass knowing glances between themselves as the dad reiterates "He will be buried in the family plot". 

As I recall the short story sheds no light on this subject either so maybe it is one of the many things Ang Lee wants us to decide for ourselves.  The hopeless romantic in me sure hopes for this scenario and imagines Ennis finally back at BBM with Jack one last time.  :'(

[*Froggy*]

I don't think he took the ashes...Jack's mum gave a knowing look because of the shirts..like "you found them! great, let me get a bag for you"
But the ashes no...though I really wish they had been scattered on BBM!

[Kindred]

I think the "knowing" look between Ennis and Jack's mom was more about the significance of the shirts and the relationship between them.  I believe that Jack's mom knew the truth about Jack.

The short story ends that scene with the following paragraph:

"Bumping down the washboard road Ennis passed the country cemetery fenced with sagging sheep wire, a tiny fenced square on the welling prairie, a few graves bright with plastic flowers, and didn't want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain."

It seems to indicate that Ennis for all intents believed that Jack's ashes would be buried in the family plot as his father suggested.

[gjz24]

I am thinking Jack's mom will give Jack's ashes after Jack's dad death. Just wish their story will last long...

[rane99]

I am thinking Jack's mom will give Jack's ashes after Jack's dad death. Just wish their story will last long...

yes..    But as the mother was putting the shirts  in the paper sack, she pauses for a brief moment... why would she do that...??  I think the mother was using code to Ennis when she said, "Want some some coffee, don't you? Piece of cherry cake? I think what she was really saying is: Under the bed, against the wall in a small box is Jack's ashes. I know what's up between you two and I want you to take those ashes to Brokeback. I'll take care of Mr Stud Duck here. Hurry, and Godspeed.'   hmmm ok..well, maybe I'm stretching here....   tee hee

[kcristob]

oh, I wish I wish.  But, no, I don't think there is any indication that he "gets" the ashes.

There's a lesson in there for all of us.  Make your wishes known!!!!  (Jack did - and in those days there weren't the legal resources for those kinds of things that there are today!)

[Rønnaug]

I am thinking Jack's mom will give Jack's ashes after Jack's dad death. Just wish their story will last long...

yes..    But as the mother was putting the shirts  in the paper sack, she pauses for a brief moment... why would she do that...??  I think the mother was using code to Ennis when she said, "Want some some coffee, don't you? Piece of cherry cake? I think what she was really saying is: Under the bed, against the wall in a small box is Jack's ashes. I know what's up between you two and I want you to take those ashes to Brokeback. I'll take care of Mr Stud Duck here. Hurry, and Godspeed.'   hmmm ok..well, maybe I'm stretching here....   tee hee

I just love that  That would have been awsome... I had to post this on another forum and i hope that is ok with you

[rikcub]

I am thinking Jack's mom will give Jack's ashes after Jack's dad death. Just wish their story will last long...

yes..    But as the mother was putting the shirts  in the paper sack, she pauses for a brief moment... why would she do that...??  I think the mother was using code to Ennis when she said, "Want some some coffee, don't you? Piece of cherry cake? I think what she was really saying is: Under the bed, against the wall in a small box is Jack's ashes. I know what's up between you two and I want you to take those ashes to Brokeback. I'll take care of Mr Stud Duck here. Hurry, and Godspeed.'   hmmm ok..well, maybe I'm stretching here....   tee hee

Rikcub is now slapping his forehead having a light bulb moment....OF COURSE THAT WAS IT....LOL   Love your thought process.   :o

[rikcub]

I am thinking Jack's mom will give Jack's ashes after Jack's dad death. Just wish their story will last long...

I have also heard that theory.  Would make me happy as well.   

[Uptown_Gal]

Came home early from a Super Bowl XL gathering.  Couldn't bear to stay.  Was ALMOST tempted to drop by a theate to secretly see BBM #4 by myself.  However, I refrained myself.  Tomorrow is a work day.

Anyway, based on Annie Proulx's story, Jack's father - "stud duck in the pond" - refused to release Jack's ashes to Ennis "...we got a family plot and he's goin' in it."  The man had to have the last say, even in his son's death.  I do believe that Jack's father was aware of his son's relationship w. Ennis.  Perhaps he felt that if he released Jack's ashes to Ennis, it would be a tacit endorsement and legitimization of his son's relationship w. Ennis.  Do you believe that Jack's father went against Jack's wishes to have his ashes scattered on Brokeback in defiance of Ennis Del Mar and what he represented?

However, wouldn't that have been lovely?  To see scenes of an older Ennis scattering Jack's ashes back up on Brokeback?  Reliving memories?  It would have been lovely but too perfect and predictable.  I believe that the above imaginary scenario AND the shirt scene would've been way too melodramatic together.  I don't believe that Ennis was ever meant to return back to Brokeback.  Like the movie trailer, "there are some places you can't return."       

[tpe]

I think Jack's ashes were never to be scattered on Brokeback Mountain. This is what makes the tragedy so powerful and unmitigated.  There is no consolation of seeing Jack's wishes fulfilled.  With Jack's death, Ennis has lost Brokeback Mountain forever, with the 2 shirts as the sole remaining reminder...

[scruffy]

yes..    But as the mother was putting the shirts  in the paper sack, she pauses for a brief moment... why would she do that...??  I think the mother was using code to Ennis when she said, "Want some some coffee, don't you? Piece of cherry cake? I think what she was really saying is: Under the bed, against the wall in a small box is Jack's ashes. I know what's up between you two and I want you to take those ashes to Brokeback. I'll take care of Mr Stud Duck here. Hurry, and Godspeed.'   hmmm ok..well, maybe I'm stretching here....   tee hee

OK, now you've done it.  I will never look at that scene the same way again.  I just hope I don't laugh out loud in the movie theatre.  That is the best laugh I had all week.  Now just how long is it going to be before someone plays the movie backwards to reveal the hidden message "I buried Jack"

I believe that Jack's parents are in the dark about Jack and Ennis' true relationship.  I'm sure they knew Jack and Ennis were best friends but I don't think they knew that they kissed.  The fate of Jack's ashes is another one of those open ended questions that is open to interpretation.  We would all want Ennis to follow through with Jack's wishes. But I don't think Ennis ever goes back to Brokeback.  His memory of the mountain is demoted to a two dimensional postcard.  Without Jack he has no reason to return. 

[manila_rocks]

Well, at least the postcard was two dimensional 

I don't think those ashes left the enraged hands of Jack's father.   

[ethan]

As much as I want Ennis to take the Jack's ashes (sob...Jack's ashes..Ethan is in denial), the movie as well as the story provide an indication that Ennis got the ashes.

But who knows? Perhaps the ashes was inside of the shirts. But then, it seems the shirts are the closure for Ennis. If so, then no ashes for Ennis. Hope this makes sense.

[manila_rocks]

Jack's mother, who appeared very savvy in a way, might have put just a few of the ashes in the shirt pockets for good measure.

[JerBear418720]

I think Jack's ashes were never to be scattered on Brokeback Mountain. This is what makes the tragedy so powerful and unmitigated.  There is no consolation of seeing Jack's wishes fulfilled.  With Jack's death, Ennis has lost Brokeback Mountain forever, with the 2 shirts as the sole remaining reminder...

I agree.  As viewers, we want SOME kind of consolation, but, no, the tragedy and devastation have to be utterly complete.

[JerBear418720]

BTW, I also think that Jack's mother KNEW those shirts were up there.  Notice how she smiles when Ennis brings them down - NO questions from her - she KNEW the ashes were to stay, but I think she WANTED Ennis to have the shirts.

[Rønnaug]

BTW, I also think that Jack's mother KNEW those shirts were up there.  Notice how she smiles when Ennis brings them down - NO questions from her - she KNEW the ashes were to stay, but I think she WANTED Ennis to have the shirts.

I agree, why else would she suggest Ennis go up there?

[JerBear418720]

BTW, I also think that Jack's mother KNEW those shirts were up there.  Notice how she smiles when Ennis brings them down - NO questions from her - she KNEW the ashes were to stay, but I think she WANTED Ennis to have the shirts.

I agree, why else would she suggest Ennis go up there?

Exactly - this was a wise and compassionate woman - and what a performance for like 5 mins!

[CherryCake]

yes..    But as the mother was putting the shirts  in the paper sack, she pauses for a brief moment... why would she do that...??  I think the mother was using code to Ennis when she said, "Want some some coffee, don't you? Piece of cherry cake? I think what she was really saying is: Under the bed, against the wall in a small box is Jack's ashes. I know what's up between you two and I want you to take those ashes to Brokeback. I'll take care of Mr Stud Duck here. Hurry, and Godspeed.'   hmmm ok..well, maybe I'm stretching here....   tee hee

  Now just how long is it going to be before someone plays the movie backwards to reveal the hidden message "I buried Jack"

I believe that Jack's parents are in the dark about Jack and Ennis' true relationship.  I'm sure they knew Jack and Ennis were best friends but I don't think they knew that they kissed.  The fate of Jack's ashes is another one of those open ended questions that is open to interpretation.  We would all want Ennis to follow through with Jack's wishes. But I don't think Ennis ever goes back to Brokeback.  His memory of the mountain is demoted to a two dimensional postcard.  Without Jack he has no reason to return. 

lol Now don't handing out those tin-foil hats just yet, or before you know it Oliver Stone will be making a "Who Really Done It?" documentary.
I am not so sure the parents are that much in the dark.  Maybe in denial about Jack's sexuality, but they gotta know. At least suspect something. Come on. For years Jack was telling his parents he is gonna bring Ennis Del Mar and build a cabin for them to live in and lick the place into shape?  When Jack is divorced he tells his parents about another feller? 

[JerBear418720]

yes..    But as the mother was putting the shirts  in the paper sack, she pauses for a brief moment... why would she do that...??  I think the mother was using code to Ennis when she said, "Want some some coffee, don't you? Piece of cherry cake? I think what she was really saying is: Under the bed, against the wall in a small box is Jack's ashes. I know what's up between you two and I want you to take those ashes to Brokeback. I'll take care of Mr Stud Duck here. Hurry, and Godspeed.'   hmmm ok..well, maybe I'm stretching here....   tee hee

  Now just how long is it going to be before someone plays the movie backwards to reveal the hidden message "I buried Jack"

I believe that Jack's parents are in the dark about Jack and Ennis' true relationship.  I'm sure they knew Jack and Ennis were best friends but I don't think they knew that they kissed.  The fate of Jack's ashes is another one of those open ended questions that is open to interpretation.  We would all want Ennis to follow through with Jack's wishes. But I don't think Ennis ever goes back to Brokeback.  His memory of the mountain is demoted to a two dimensional postcard.  Without Jack he has no reason to return. 

lol Now don't handing out those tin-foil hats just yet, orbefore you know it Oliver Stone will be making a "Who Really Done It?" documentary.
I am not so sure the parents are that much in the dark.  Maybe in denial about Jack's sexuality, but they gotta know. At least suspect something. Come on. For years Jack was telling his parents he is gonna bring Ennis Del Mar and build a cabin for them to live in and lick the place into shape?  When Jack is divorced he tells his parents about another feller? 

HAHA! 

[camom]

BTW, I also think that Jack's mother KNEW those shirts were up there.  Notice how she smiles when Ennis brings them down - NO questions from her - she KNEW the ashes were to stay, but I think she WANTED Ennis to have the shirts.

Absolutely.  I totally agree.  Face it, there isn't much in that room, and it's not like the shirts are hidden.  How could she have missed them?  I have boys, and if (God forbid) I ever lost one of them, you can bet I would be spending hours looking at, touching, and smelling all of their stuff.  There's no way she didn't know they were there.  What a performance.

camom

[rane99]

OK, now you've done it.  I will never look at that scene the same way again.  I just hope I don't laugh out loud in the movie theatre.  That is the best laugh I had all week.  Now just how long is it going to be before someone plays the movie backwards to reveal the hidden message "I buried Jack"

oooh.  Didn't mean to ruin your BBM experience...(as if I could!) just tossing in a bit levity.

I will shut up now.
 

[romeshvr]

actually in the beginning i found it strange that jack's mother would ask ennis to go up there to jack's room.  if ennis was just a friend, then going up to jack's room wouldn't mean anything, i think.  obviously jack's mother knew and maybe mr. twist too, and that is why she asked ennis to go up there.  another idea of mine is maybe it is a test by jack's mother to see to whom those shirts were meaningfull.  i found it strange mr twist didn't say anything nasty when ennis came down with the shirts.  even the mother didn't react, unless she did it quietly.  she quietly took the shirts and put it in the bag.  also when ennis thanked her from outside for the shirts she silently said okay.

[Uptown_Gal]

Jack's mother said "I kept his room like it was when he was a boy.  I think he appreciated that."

What prevented Jack's mother from ever washing the two soiled shirts that stood in the closet - albeit obscured - for 20 years?  I imagine that Jack once requested of his mother, "Mama, please don't ever wash 'em two shirts."

[CherryCake]

What prevented Jack's mother from ever washing the two soiled shirts that stood in the closet - albeit obscured - for 20 years?  I imagine that Jack once requested of his mother, "Mama, please don't ever wash 'em two shirts."

Oh, my. You are so right. She so knew.

[Leo]

Annie never tells us how Ennis got the shirts out of the house, I think this was done so the part where he hangs them on his wall is not spoiled for us. However; I do like the way it was handled in the movie. One thing that I do like better in the movie (concerning that scene) is when she gives the knowing look, and hands him the bag. In the book she is standing "at the table coring apples with a sharp serrated instrument" when she says "You come again". It would almost seem like could have cared less if Ennis was there or not if it had not been for the going up to his room part.

One thing that still bothers me is that Ennis swapped shirts in the movie, putting his on the outside. I think it almost might have been a better "shrine" to Jack if he had left them the way Jack kept them all those years, but then again perhaps the movie is saying that it's now Ennis who holds these two icons of their happiness on Brokeback and so as the torch passes to him he brings his shirt to the outside, even as Jacks had been.

[camom]

Annie never tells us how Ennis got the shirts out of the house, I think this was done so the part where he hangs them on his wall is not spoiled for us. However; I do like the way it was handled in the movie. One thing that I do like better in the movie (concerning that scene) is when she gives the knowing look, and hands him the bag. In the book she is standing "at the table coring apples with a sharp serrated instrument" when she says "You come again". It would almost seem like could have cared less if Ennis was there or not if it had not been for the going up to his room part.

One thing that still bothers me is that Ennis swapped shirts in the movie, putting his on the outside. I think it almost might have been a better "shrine" to Jack if he had left them the way Jack kept them all those years, but then again perhaps the movie is saying that it's now Ennis who holds these two icons of their happiness on Brokeback and so as the torch passes to him he brings his shirt to the outside, even as Jacks had been.

In my mind, the significance of switching the shirts is that it's Ennis' silent way of demonstrating that his love for Jack will never die, that his protecting arms will be around him forever. 

The more I see the movie, the more I appreciate the subtlety of the role Jack's mother plays.  That mama loved her baby.  And you know, it just came to mind--she is just as trapped as Ennis is, by economics and circumstance.  Look at where she lives, and who she lives with.  Maybe that's why she's so sympathetic...she understands being unable to break out.

camom

[brian2006]

i think Jack's parents know about the relationship between Ennis and Jack....

about Ennis change his shirt outside, i think it means Ennis realized that how much that Jack has been given and it's time now for him to "HOLD" Jack forever...

If i'm not mistaken, Jack's father did said that "You may take the ashes if u got your family plot."

is that means that Jack's father was agreed to give Jack's ashes to Ennis?

[romeshvr]

actually, jack's father siad the ashes were going in their family plot.