Author Topic: Alma invites Jack for coffee?  (Read 43900 times)

Offline dirtbiker

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Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:13 AM »
I don't think this has been asked, but what do you all think Alma's motive was, to invite Jack in for coffee?  Did she want to find out something more about this man to see why Ennis is so ga ga over him, or is she resigned to the fact that this man would be part of her life/family now, if she wanted to keep the marriage going for the sake of the kids?

Offline Toadily

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:15 AM »
Michell said in the logo movie that seeing the kiss was the beginning of the more questions, not the end of anything.  I think Alma was trying to figure things out, plus it does hurt to feel shut out of things, Ennis was putting up a wall there and she wanted to see inside.
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Offline CherryCake

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:15 AM »
I don't think this has been asked, but what do you all think Alma's motive was, to invite Jack in for coffee?  Did she want to find out something more about this man to see why Ennis is so ga ga over him, or is she resigned to the fact that this man would be part of her life/family now, if she wanted to keep the marriage going for the sake of the kids?

ooooh goood. question.  I think she wanted to see who this guy was that was a-kissin' her man. Under the pretense of a friendly cup of coffee. she was curious.
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Offline kcristob

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 07, 2006, 01:22 PM »
I think it was a challenge:  You ashamed of him or me?  You trying to hide something?  If this is above board - bring him in!

I love it that Ennis says "Jack's from Texas" as if that is an explanation to ANYTHING!  And that he doesn't even understand (or care) that it's not a logical thing to say.

And the line (and Michelle's delivery) "people from Texas don't drink coffee?"  is so great.


Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 07, 2006, 01:35 PM »
Or maybe just being polite...It is costum to invite people in and ask if they want a drink, coffee or tea! ???
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Offline manila_rocks

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 07, 2006, 01:39 PM »
I think Alma was most curious about Jack and wanted to spend time in his immediate company (as do most of us on this board I imagine..)

Offline maya

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 07, 2006, 01:48 PM »
I think Alma doesn't want that Ennis stay alone with Jack after the kiss she saw.

Offline dirtbiker

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 07, 2006, 01:49 PM »
Just makes me wonder if Ennis knew that she knew at that point because of her facial expressions, when Jack was introduced to her.

Offline tpe

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 07, 2006, 02:37 PM »
Just makes me wonder if Ennis knew that she knew at that point because of her facial expressions, when Jack was introduced to her.

Ennis pobably just wasn't thinking.  He was almost ridiculously careless with Alma regarding the time he spent with Jack.

Offline Kindred

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 07, 2006, 02:42 PM »
I think her initial offer was made simply out of politeness/courtesy.  However, after Ennis' reaction, she realizes he's trying to hide something and is just trying to argue.

Offline backtobrokeback

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 07, 2006, 03:18 PM »
I think for her it was a combination of curiosity, fear, need to know the 'competition', and reflex politeness. 

I don't think Ennis was thinking of her or her facial expressions much at all.  Jack was vibrating with excitement and that's where his mind was.

If you haven't had the good luck to experience that feeling yet, I hope you do.  It's exactly as she describes.

-btb

Quote from: Annie Proulx
What could he say? "Alma, this is Jack Twist, Jack, my wife Alma." His chest was heaving. He could smell Jack -- the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain. "Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years." As if it were a reason. He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her.

"Sure enough," said Alma in a low voice. She had seen what she had seen. Behind her in the room lightning lit the window like a white sheet waving and the baby cried.

"You got a kid?" said Jack. His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them.

"Two little girls," Ennis said. "Alma Jr. and Francine. Love them to pieces." Alma's mouth twitched.

"I got a boy," said Jack. "Eight months old. Tell you what, I married a cute little old Texas girl down in Childress -- Lureen." From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.

"Alma," he said. "Jack and me is goin out and get a drink. Might not get back tonight, we get drinkin and talkin."

"Sure enough," Alma said, taking a dollar bill from her pocket. Ennis guessed she was going to ask him to get her a pack of cigarettes, bring him back sooner.

"Please to meet you," said Jack, trembling like a run-out horse.

"Ennis -- " said Alma in her misery voice, but that didn't slow him down on the stairs and he called back, "Alma, you want smokes there's some in the pocket a my blue shirt in the bedroom."
Quote
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2006, 03:24 PM by backtobrokeback »
He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands. Make the pledge! Go Back to Brokeback whenever, however you can. Join the BTB Project.

Offline TJ

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 07, 2006, 03:31 PM »
 
Quote
The day was hot and clear in the morning, but by noon the clouds had pushed up out of the west rolling a little sultry air before them. Ennis, wearing his best shirt, white with wide black stripes, didn't know what time Jack would get there and so had taken the day off, paced back and forth, looking down into a street pale with dust. Alma was saying something about taking his friend to the Knife & Fork for supper instead of cooking it was so hot, if they could get a baby-sitter, but Ennis said more likely he'd just go out with Jack and get drunk. Jack was not a restaurant type, he said, thinking of the dirty spoons sticking out of the cans of cold beans balanced on the log.

The above takes place before Jack arrives in Riverton.

Alma, in the original story, doesn't invite Jack in for anything. She has no idea as to what kind of relationship Ennis has had with Jack in the first place.

In fact, from the way that I read the story, Alma did notice that very tall Ennis was hugging a person on the upstairs landing outside their apartment door; but, she did not see him kissing Jack at all.

And, I believe the reason after their divorce where she referred to Jack Twist as "Jack Nasty" is that she was guessing that Ennis and Jack had not gone camping at all but were chasing after other women or doing something else which was not right.
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:09 PM »
She asked them in for coffee, because she wanted to know the depth of the relationship between Ennis and Jack. You can learn an awful lot about poeple over a cup of coffee. Perhaps, she was resigned to losing Ennis and if that was the case, she was going to have to understand who 'Jack' was, because shes going to have two girls to raise with a father and surrogate father.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline kcristob

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:19 PM »
Quote
The day was hot and clear in the morning, but by noon the clouds had pushed up out of the west rolling a little sultry air before them. Ennis, wearing his best shirt, white with wide black stripes, didn't know what time Jack would get there and so had taken the day off, paced back and forth, looking down into a street pale with dust. Alma was saying something about taking his friend to the Knife & Fork for supper instead of cooking it was so hot, if they could get a baby-sitter, but Ennis said more likely he'd just go out with Jack and get drunk. Jack was not a restaurant type, he said, thinking of the dirty spoons sticking out of the cans of cold beans balanced on the log.

The above takes place before Jack arrives in Riverton.

Alma, in the original story, doesn't invite Jack in for anything. She has no idea as to what kind of relationship Ennis has had with Jack in the first place.

In fact, from the way that I read the story, Alma did notice that very tall Ennis was hugging a person on the upstairs landing outside their apartment door; but, she did not see him kissing Jack at all.

And, I believe the reason after their divorce where she referred to Jack Twist as "Jack Nasty" is that she was guessing that Ennis and Jack had not gone camping at all but were chasing after other women or doing something else which was not right.

from the story:

They seized each other by the shoulders, hugged mightily, squeezing the breath out of each other, saying, son of a bitch, son of a bitch, then, and easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers, their mouths came together, and hard, Jack's big teeth bringing blood, his hat falling to the floor, stubble rasping, wet saliva welling, [i]and the door opening and Alma looking out for a few seconds at Ennis's straining shoulders and shutting the door again and still they clinched[/i], pressing chest and groin and thigh and leg together, treading on each other's toes until they pulled apart to breathe and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin.

I think that line indicates she saw them. 

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:30 PM »
Quote
The day was hot and clear in the morning, but by noon the clouds had pushed up out of the west rolling a little sultry air before them. Ennis, wearing his best shirt, white with wide black stripes, didn't know what time Jack would get there and so had taken the day off, paced back and forth, looking down into a street pale with dust. Alma was saying something about taking his friend to the Knife & Fork for supper instead of cooking it was so hot, if they could get a baby-sitter, but Ennis said more likely he'd just go out with Jack and get drunk. Jack was not a restaurant type, he said, thinking of the dirty spoons sticking out of the cans of cold beans balanced on the log.

The above takes place before Jack arrives in Riverton.

Alma, in the original story, doesn't invite Jack in for anything. She has no idea as to what kind of relationship Ennis has had with Jack in the first place.

In fact, from the way that I read the story, Alma did notice that very tall Ennis was hugging a person on the upstairs landing outside their apartment door; but, she did not see him kissing Jack at all.

And, I believe the reason after their divorce where she referred to Jack Twist as "Jack Nasty" is that she was guessing that Ennis and Jack had not gone camping at all but were chasing after other women or doing something else which was not right.

from the story:

They seized each other by the shoulders, hugged mightily, squeezing the breath out of each other, saying, son of a bitch, son of a bitch, then, and easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers, their mouths came together, and hard, Jack's big teeth bringing blood, his hat falling to the floor, stubble rasping, wet saliva welling, [i]and the door opening and Alma looking out for a few seconds at Ennis's straining shoulders and shutting the door again and still they clinched[/i], pressing chest and groin and thigh and leg together, treading on each other's toes until they pulled apart to breathe and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin.

I think that line indicates she saw them. 

Yes, in the story, she saw them.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline camom

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 07, 2006, 05:20 PM »
Quote
The day was hot and clear in the morning, but by noon the clouds had pushed up out of the west rolling a little sultry air before them. Ennis, wearing his best shirt, white with wide black stripes, didn't know what time Jack would get there and so had taken the day off, paced back and forth, looking down into a street pale with dust. Alma was saying something about taking his friend to the Knife & Fork for supper instead of cooking it was so hot, if they could get a baby-sitter, but Ennis said more likely he'd just go out with Jack and get drunk. Jack was not a restaurant type, he said, thinking of the dirty spoons sticking out of the cans of cold beans balanced on the log.

The above takes place before Jack arrives in Riverton.

Alma, in the original story, doesn't invite Jack in for anything. She has no idea as to what kind of relationship Ennis has had with Jack in the first place.

In fact, from the way that I read the story, Alma did notice that very tall Ennis was hugging a person on the upstairs landing outside their apartment door; but, she did not see him kissing Jack at all.

And, I believe the reason after their divorce where she referred to Jack Twist as "Jack Nasty" is that she was guessing that Ennis and Jack had not gone camping at all but were chasing after other women or doing something else which was not right.

from the story:

They seized each other by the shoulders, hugged mightily, squeezing the breath out of each other, saying, son of a bitch, son of a bitch, then, and easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers, their mouths came together, and hard, Jack's big teeth bringing blood, his hat falling to the floor, stubble rasping, wet saliva welling, [i]and the door opening and Alma looking out for a few seconds at Ennis's straining shoulders and shutting the door again and still they clinched[/i], pressing chest and groin and thigh and leg together, treading on each other's toes until they pulled apart to breathe and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin.

I think that line indicates she saw them. 

Yes, in the story, she saw them.

She definitely saw them, and the story implies that Ennis knew she saw them--"'Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years."  As if it were a reason."  And her referring to Jack as "Jack Nasty" means she knew exactly what was going on. 

camom

tweric

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 07, 2006, 11:43 PM »
I'm relating that to her earlier "asking Ennis to buy a pack of cigarette as a mean to bring him back". After she saw what she saw, her mental state basically stayed in "Ennis, you stay here, don't go out with that ...that...person". So, the next morning, her husband was back, she had to come up with any execuse (just like the one with buying cigarette) to keep Ennis home, where she could see and monitor him. Of course, ultimately, make sure that..that ..person won't come any closer to her husband.

Offline kcristob

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 08, 2006, 12:20 PM »
I'm relating that to her earlier "asking Ennis to buy a pack of cigarette as a mean to bring him back". After she saw what she saw, her mental state basically stayed in "Ennis, you stay here, don't go out with that ...that...person". So, the next morning, her husband was back, she had to come up with any execuse (just like the one with buying cigarette) to keep Ennis home, where she could see and monitor him. Of course, ultimately, make sure that..that ..person won't come any closer to her husband.

And this is so human!  Can't you just relate to being with someone who you can TELL is attracted to someone else.  Your gut reaction, I think, would be to keep YOUR person with YOU so you can manage/monitor what happens!  I love this.

And I agree with tpe who wrote "Ennis probably just wasn't thinking.  He was almost ridiculously careless with Alma regarding the time he spent with Jack."

Perfect wording.  Ennis was ridiculously careless with Alma.  Not in keeping with his usual guarded self.  It's another example of Jack's influence on Ennis.  Jack may not have gotten Ennis in the way he wanted - but he sure got to him!

Offline jimmypage

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 09, 2006, 06:08 PM »
She says that line about coffee after looking at Jack waiting for Ennis, from the window..
I think she hates Jack for this arrogant and disrespectful  attitude...
Indeed Jack acts like she doesn't exists
so for me it's not curiosity..it's resentment : after ALL he doesn't even   come in and  say hello...



Offline backtobrokeback

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 09, 2006, 07:38 PM »
Well, Jack and Alma were introduced the day before... why come in again at all if Ennis said "I'm just gonna grab my toothbrush." ?

He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands. Make the pledge! Go Back to Brokeback whenever, however you can. Join the BTB Project.

Offline jimmypage

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 10, 2006, 03:00 AM »
Well, Jack and Alma were introduced the day before... why come in again at all if Ennis said "I'm just gonna grab my toothbrush." ?


Yes..this is the Jack&Ennis point of you...they act like if  Alma doesn't exist.
Ennis is a sort of roadroller in that scene..
a "bit offensive" for Alma.
P.S. offensive in any case..
in my country (but I think everywhere) if someone was leaving for a little trip with my husband,
 then he'ld have to come in and  say something: goodbay , good morning.. whatever you want,
even if I didn't know him well, maybe mainly in this case...

Offline jason

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 11, 2006, 01:16 AM »
Just makes me wonder if Ennis knew that she knew at that point because of her facial expressions, when Jack was introduced to her.
The story suggests Ennis knew Alma must have seen them from the door.  And just had to brazen it out in front of her, introducing Jack to be polite--but get it over quickly and get away with Jack asap.
Let be, let be

Offline rod1960

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 11, 2006, 06:48 PM »
In the book, they have a short chat about the children, Jack telling them he has an 8 month old son.

Offline n061857

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #23 on: Mar 25, 2006, 04:13 PM »
I think Alma invites Jack in for three reasons, some have already been mentioned:

1. She wants to postpone their departure and interlude as long as she can.

2. She wants to see how they interact with one another and size up the competition.

3. She wants Jack to see she is a real livimg and breathing person whose life he is destroying.

This is similar ro murder trials.  They tell the witnesses to use the deceased's name as frequently as possible to put a face on him/her.  It brings more sympathy to the victim.

matsuki33

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #24 on: Mar 25, 2006, 04:19 PM »
Just makes me wonder if Ennis knew that she knew at that point because of her facial expressions, when Jack was introduced to her.

Ennis was in another place at that specific moment he was so not watching or thinking clearly neither jack

Offline Asali

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #25 on: Sep 04, 2008, 08:11 AM »
I don't think this has been asked, but what do you all think Alma's motive was, to invite Jack in for coffee?  Did she want to find out something more about this man to see why Ennis is so ga ga over him, or is she resigned to the fact that this man would be part of her life/family now, if she wanted to keep the marriage going for the sake of the kids?
I think Alma was totally confused at this point, didn't know what to think, what to say, how to feel or react and just tried to pretend that everything was normal while her head was spinning about full of questions so out of politeness asked about Jack being invited in for coffee.
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Offline atalley

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #26 on: Sep 04, 2008, 02:28 PM »
I was a little surprised how he rarely even acknowledges her existence before leaving for these "camping trips".  Of course it only gets worse as the yrs. go by.

Offline tpe

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #27 on: Sep 05, 2008, 07:57 AM »
I somehow think that Alma was trying (in a timid way) to be confrontational -- does this make sense to you?  I somehow felt that her probing Ennis about seeing Jack and reasons for him not to go was a way of getting him to reveal more than he weas willing to let out.  And I think Ennis vaguely understood this -- hence, his evasiveness...

 

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #28 on: Oct 27, 2008, 04:06 AM »
Alma got a shock when she saw them kissing. She could not believe it... When Ennis introduced her to Jack she had so many questions and she wanted them to be answered..now she was in shock to even yell and react and I dont think that she was the kind of person to create a scene..she just wanted to accept the reality first..Although she dint know the complete truth...When she wants to invite Jack for coffee IMO she wanted to know the following :

-How long they know each other

-Does Ennis have strong feelings for Jack or its just a passing phase and nothing serious

-What kind of a person is Jack

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Alma invites Jack for coffee?
« Reply #29 on: Oct 27, 2008, 05:56 PM »
I tend to believe that this question was only a way to measure-to say it in some way...-Ennis attention towards herself and towards Jack at the same time.If she was talking to Ennis,she could see by his reaction what she saw in the end;that Ennis was totally illusioned with Jack's visit and had no ears or eyes more than for him.IMO,the cup of coffee was just an excuse to see this,give her a time to react and get her plan,that she couldn't do because nobody take her into account.Surely,if Jack had come for having this cup,she would have observed their reactions together and she had done anything to avoid their journey.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.