Topic: When Jack got mad...

[lamusica]

Right on, Aintfoolin/

[babytammy7]

I agree with this, Ennis waited till the last minute to spring this little tidbit of news on Jack, when he could have done so much sooner. I feel it was done for two reasons.

1. Ennis knew that Jack was gonna be mad about it and did'nt want to spoil or end the trip before the week passed prolonging the inevitable..

 2. He knew that this would be the last meeting for a long while and simply wanted to savor every moment he had with Jack. Call him selfish maybe, but better to spend a week with a happy unasumming  Jack, than a pissed off depressed  one.  Also Jack may have thought that he had lost a bit of control over the matter,  robbed of his right to assert his feelings about it sooner, felt manipulated  by Ennis once again.

So well said AF!! I agree with you here.

[manhattangirl]

I agree with this, Ennis waited till the last minute to spring this little tidbit of news on Jack, when he could have done so much sooner. I feel it was done for two reasons.

1. Ennis knew that Jack was gonna be mad about it and did'nt want to spoil or end the trip before the week passed prolonging the inevitable..

 2. He knew that this would be the last meeting for a long while and simply wanted to savor every moment he had with Jack. Call him selfish maybe, but better to spend a week with a happy unasumming  Jack, than a pissed off depressed  one.  Also Jack may have thought that he had lost a bit of control over the matter,  robbed of his right to assert his feelings about it sooner, felt manipulated  by Ennis once again.

But isn't that how Ennis always kept control.   There wasn't a moment that Jack had the upper hand, until he utter the words "I wish I could quit you"  which laid Ennis down and out.   I can't help to think that night before when they by the campfire Jack, unwisely let Ennis know he was at least seeing someone else.  Ennis has control issues.  I don't think he was all that please that Jack was "sneaking off" to see anyone.  That "boys like you" remark was at least letting Jack know Ennis wasn't as dumb as he might have thought.   And also the statement "I miss you much I could hardly stand it",  Jack was telling Ennis I miss you, but I could go to someone else.   And what does Ennis do in his passive aggressive way, pushes the date of the next meeting back further knowing how Jack would react to it.  Ennis non committing possessvie love for Jack was for me that short leash that Jack blamed Ennis for. 

Just my take

[lamusica]

But isn't that how Ennis always kept control.   There wasn't a moment that Jack had the upper hand, until he utter the words "I wish I could quit you"  which laid Ennis down and out.   I can't help to think that night before when they by the campfire Jack, unwisely let Ennis know he was at least seeing someone else.  Ennis has control issues.  I don't think he was all that please that Jack was "sneaking off" to see anyone.  That "boys like you" remark was at least letting Jack know Ennis wasn't as dumb as he might have thought.   And also the statement "I miss you much I could hardly stand it",  Jack was telling Ennis I miss you, but I could go to someone else.   And what does Ennis do in his passive aggressive way, pushes the date of the next meeting back further knowing how Jack would react to it.  Ennis non committing possessvie love for Jack was for me that short leash that Jack blamed Ennis for. 

Just my take

Good point, Manhattan!  Seems to me that they both are pushing the envelope in those two scenes.  Maybe they're looking for an argument== feeling the need for the release an argument can bring.  Jack is trying to prepare Ennis for a possible break-up; Ennis is listening and is not happy, but still has to tell Jack he can't make it in August, knowing Jack will be pissed.  Jack wants Ennis to commit, to give him a reason to srop seeing Randall, but Ennis, instead, gives him one more reason to question his love.  Looks like a fight's acoming, to me.

[aintfoolin]

Yep, they were both cruisin for a bruisin, great posts MG and lamusica!

The tension and frustration was a long time coming to a head. Jack may have been willing to go along with Ennis's rational in the beginning of the fight, What else could he do? Ennis had to earn a living  to pay child support . He had clearly worked something out with his boss in order to meet with Jack.  In his defense,he had taken some initiative in the relationship, but the timing was out of his control. This seemed to be overlooked by Jack being so caught up in his own frustration over the situation. Ennis tried to explain himself, that his boss had agreed to let him off "this time" in exchange for being back when the stock are getting shipped. Jack may have been more upset with the actual situation than at Ennis himself at that point. But after the Mexican business was brought to light, it was all down hill from there.

It is interesting that Jack did'nt blink when Ennis said the "boys like you" statement almost baiting Jack in his own jealous/frustration . Jack is alredy a  a ticking timebomb. He  felt justified in some way. It's not like he really Wanted to go to Mexico, but the long seperations from Ennis made him vulnerable, he was'nt backing down.  He was who he was, he liked what he liked.
 I think Jack actually had the upper hand all along, Ennis just hid behind  the manipulation, control, and imo *mixed messages, so well ,all  due to his inner conflicts. It's ironic that  in reality, he was SO wrapped around Jack's little finger , that he could never let him go. We all saw what happened to Ennis, once Jack finally exposed  him. He just could'nt let Jack know that weakness in him, that this need for Jack was beyond his control, only  Jack was no longer willing to live by the "short leash"  rules Ennis had laid down for them. If only they had been better communicaters. MO.

[myprivatejack]

Great posts everybody,that let me few things to say¡ I really think that this"explosion" on the part of both must produce sooner or later;for me,Jack came to a point almost of non return with the argument near the river.This scene with a rather cynic Ennis making fun of Jack's dreams of still living together if his partner were too paranoid in the environment he lived,marks an "after" and a "before" in his relationship and the way of seeing it.This situation united to the great,great lack of REAL COMMUNICATION that both of them suffered-I will never be tired of repeating it...-,made the rest,that's for sure.
Of course,Ennis wasn't going to say they didn't see each other during more time Jack supposed in the beginning of what it'd be their last meeting.He knew how disgusting it'd be for his partner,but perhaps after a good days together,it'd be the right moment to say it .And,knowing that they'd have an argument,it'd be also the right moment for these Mexico trips "coming out".This was something that Ennis needed to say and,maybe,Jack also needed to hear.This is why-as you,aintfoolin,remark very well-he didn't blink when the other said he knew how much he liked the Mexican country...All the things they needed to throw against each other because they were rotten inside them came out then all of a sudden.And it's what I opine that their lack of communication is seen,but also a certain selfishness on both part,as they weren't able to understand the other side's situation and needings.IMO.

[tpe]

I always felt that Ennis delayed in telling Jack he couldn't come in August because he knew how Jack would react -- with anger.  This leads me to believe that Jack had shown his impatience and anger on other occasions with Ennis.  There's just so much that went on between the two that we don't know.  Ennis was just trying to keep Jack in a good mood as long as he could.  Simplistic, I know, but that's how I read it.

I had never thought of it this way -- it is possible that there were earlier incidents. 

But the incidents were probably minor compared to the last confrontation.  It was probably riven more by Ennis seeing Jack disappointed during those past moments -- they were probably moments that made being together quite awkward, but probably not confrontational.  The post divorce scene is a perfect example of what may have happened before.

[tpe]

jack only got angry when it was justified and his anger was more in realiation i think eenis was more the angry one but neither of them were compleatly anger filled

I do think what you say here has some interesting points.  Both of them at certain moments seems to have been ready to back down -- I think especially of the moment when Jack complains about why did they always have to meet in the cold.  And Ennis certainly tried to be conciliatory when he suggested the same cabin they had borrowed in a previous meeting.

It is interesting to note that what pushed both of them over the edge is the sequence that leads to Jack reminding Ennis: "I did once."  This cut deep into Ennis, and what followed precipitated in Jack losing it, so to speak.

[tpe]

I agree with this, Ennis waited till the last minute to spring this little tidbit of news on Jack, when he could have done so much sooner. I feel it was done for two reasons.

1. Ennis knew that Jack was gonna be mad about it and did'nt want to spoil or end the trip before the week passed prolonging the inevitable..

 2. He knew that this would be the last meeting for a long while and simply wanted to savor every moment he had with Jack. Call him selfish maybe, but better to spend a week with a happy unasumming  Jack, than a pissed off depressed  one.  Also Jack may have thought that he had lost a bit of control over the matter,  robbed of his right to assert his feelings about it sooner, felt manipulated  by Ennis once again.

Good rationalizations, aintfoolin.  They are most likely correct.  Too bad that Jack didn't seem to see things this way -- he would have been more sympathetic had he realized that Ennis didn't want to bring it up earlier because he didn't want their meeting to end badly.

[tpe]

But isn't that how Ennis always kept control.   There wasn't a moment that Jack had the upper hand, until he utter the words "I wish I could quit you"  which laid Ennis down and out.   I can't help to think that night before when they by the campfire Jack, unwisely let Ennis know he was at least seeing someone else.  Ennis has control issues.  I don't think he was all that please that Jack was "sneaking off" to see anyone.  That "boys like you" remark was at least letting Jack know Ennis wasn't as dumb as he might have thought.   And also the statement "I miss you much I could hardly stand it",  Jack was telling Ennis I miss you, but I could go to someone else.   And what does Ennis do in his passive aggressive way, pushes the date of the next meeting back further knowing how Jack would react to it.  Ennis non committing possessvie love for Jack was for me that short leash that Jack blamed Ennis for. 

Just my take

I do concede that perhaps without meaning to, this was how Ennis kept Jack in abeyance -- as in that awkward moment in the post divorce scene, when the presence of Ennis's daughters provided him with an excuse to turn away Jack.

But somehow, I feel that he didn't do these things deliberately or at least knowingly.  I am not excusing Ennis.  I just see that he was probably blind to the form of control he was exerting on Jack, especially in those critical instances, when whatever Jack did wouldn't seem to matter -- when things would ssem to be a fait accompli.

[manhattangirl]

I do concede that perhaps without meaning to, this was how Ennis kept Jack in abeyance -- as in that awkward moment in the post divorce scene, when the presence of Ennis's daughters provided him with an excuse to turn away Jack.

But somehow, I feel that he didn't do these things deliberately or at least knowingly.  I am not excusing Ennis.  I just see that he was probably blind to the form of control he was exerting on Jack, especially in those critical instances, when whatever Jack did wouldn't seem to matter -- when things would ssem to be a fait accompli.

I agree with you, Ennis didn't do these things with the awareness of what the results would be, in every instance he always had a reason. These reasons made sense to him.  He was operating at stand point of how he saw the world.   He couldn't stand the thought of Jack even going to anyone else, but he no power over that, and so he laughs it off, but we know it's killing him inside, "you probably deserve it" was his responds to Jack half joke about getting shot by Lureen or the Randall.  

Ennis inner conflict about Jack and his feelings results in that moment when he does tell Jack the change in plans, he knows Jack would be upset, (the nail biting, and the anticipating look for the explosion from Jack).

This is Ennis passive aggressive way he handles situations, this scene is so out there for me.   I love this scene because Ennis stands there innocent in his eyes, where Jack totally goes off.  Ennis has what he wants the knowing that Jack reaction is like an affirmation, an acknowledgement that he's matters to him, and will be in his thoughts no matter where he is or whose he with, and all of this could be unconsciously executed by Ennis sheer simple action of changing the date of the next meeting.  But then like in most moments like this, one pushes too far and find out things they don't want to know about.   This is a beautifully done scene.    

Ennis takes this tactic time and again, this keeps Jack close to him, but far enough away for him to feel safe.

[tpe]

He does, and I wonder out loud whether a variance in their world views is at the heart of the conflict.

I do think that Ennis's world view was familiar to Jack, and that Jack's own was probably not that different from Ennis.  But I think the root of Jack's frustration was that Ennis's uses the constraints inherent in this world view as a method of controlling the course/flow of the relationship, and Jack felt trapped because of it.

I think Jack's struggles to get himself free of this world is implicit in his choice to move away from Wyoming, his parents, and Ennis, although he was careful to move to a place that didn't exactly differ that much from where he came from.  But my point is that he could look at things from the outside, even though he was a relative insider and knew the lay of the land well enough.  The inconvenience of going to and fro was probably part symbolic of his trying to draw Ennis out by seemingly trying to look as if he were from without himself.  I hope you get what I mean here...

[manhattangirl]

He does, and I wonder out loud whether a variance in their world views is at the heart of the conflict.

I do think that Ennis's world view was familiar to Jack, and that Jack's own was probably not that different from Ennis.  But I think the root of Jack's frustration was that Ennis's uses the constraints inherent in this world view as a method of controlling the course/flow of the relationship, and Jack felt trapped because of it.

I think Jack's struggles to get himself free of this world is implicit in his choice to move away from Wyoming, his parents, and Ennis, although he was careful to move to a place that didn't exactly differ that much from where he came from.  But my point is that he could look at things from the outside, even though he was a relative insider and knew the lay of the land well enough.  The inconvenience of going to and fro was probably part symbolic of his trying to draw Ennis out by seemingly trying to look as if he were from without himself.  I hope you get what I mean here...

I don't know if you mean, "hey look the water is fine".  Ennis never left the safety of the shore line, and Jack wanted to take his hand to test the waters.

It was just that frustration Jack must of felt with Ennis, and that frustration that sent him to Mexico. It wasn't so much that Jack was hot to trot, his loneliness for Ennis was so overwhelming, and he told Ennis it was hard for him.

Jack gets a bum rap as far as Mexico.  It was the self imposed semi celibacy, (if there is such a thing),  of Ennis, to Jack's being sexually active, which we hold as some kind of chart measuring both men character.    We admire Ennis self control to Jack lack of control, but it took a lot out of both men.  It was just that which exploded at the final confrontation. 

I'm I close?

[Matt Nasty]

do you think we are maybe reading to much into this whole jack getting mad thing, i mean every couple argues once in a while its no big deal they shout and try and belittle each other but in the end they are still in love and this is what matters. the sad thing about this argument for me was that it was the last time they spoke before jacks death. this for me is the real heart ache of the scene if they had met up in november and had a nice time i would have fealt a great deal better.

[tpe]

I don't know if you mean, "hey look the water is fine".  Ennis never left the safety of the shore line, and Jack wanted to take his hand to test the waters.

It was just that frustration Jack must of felt with Ennis, and that frustration that sent him to Mexico. It wasn't so much that Jack was hot to trot, his loneliness for Ennis was so overwhelming, and he told Ennis it was hard for him.

Jack gets a bum rap as far as Mexico.  It was the self imposed semi celibacy, (if there is such a thing),  of Ennis, to Jack's being sexually active, which we hold as some kind of chart measuring both men character.    We admire Ennis self control to Jack lack of control, but it took a lot out of both men.  It was just that which exploded at the final confrontation. 

I'm I close?

Your metaphor about the shoreline is perfect.  This is what I was trying to say.

In many ways, I think Jack was justified in his defiance about Mexico.  And yes, his fighting words with Ennis at that point were not really about the sex per se -- even though this would seem so on the surface.  In question here was not sexual appetite, but LONELINESS, as you pointed out.  Vox clamantis in deserto...

[tpe]

do you think we are maybe reading to much into this whole jack getting mad thing, i mean every couple argues once in a while its no big deal they shout and try and belittle each other but in the end they are still in love and this is what matters. the sad thing about this argument for me was that it was the last time they spoke before jacks death. this for me is the real heart ache of the scene if they had met up in november and had a nice time i would have fealt a great deal better.

It is not in question that they had quarrels, as we see many times in the movie.  But this instance in the last confrontation was pivotal, IMO.  What things were left unsaid for so many years were finally said.  And although things ALMOST got torqued back in the end, what was said could not be taken back -- the whole thing was now out in the open.  This may be why Jack seemingly lost hope for a shared life after this.    That is what makes the final confrontation significant.

[manhattangirl]

tpe makes a solid point.  Jack death yes a tragedy, but at the final confrontation, the things that were felt unknowingly of both Jack and Ennis were brought out was at its heart reason for that one moment of truth.  

These men were friends, and lovers for twenty years, their relationship was more important than any things in their life.  But Jack's frustration with Ennis, and Ennis's suspicion of Jack's fidelity weighted down by fear society,  broke wide open that day.  It was just a matter of time the truth about how each man were living their lives had to brought out.   For them it took twenty years, but compare that to the so little time they did have with each other.   I think it's the testament to that love, that both men weren't afraid to be vulnerable to each other, and let it all out.   Which showed how much both Jack and Ennis invested in their love, and what it took for each to hold on to it.


Just my take.

[aintfoolin]

Exactly MG,

Their love was really the only thing  in either of their lives that was sustained for so long. The love had stamina when marriages, girlfriends, jobs and even children, fell by the wayside, but what was the one thing they felt worth holding on to for 20 years?  It was worth the passionate fight in the end for them. Why Jack could'nt quit Ennis? because he felt it worth saving, worth giving up so much a part of themselves for.

 Each trip/meeting planned , especially for Jack contained a desperate hope, hope that on one of these meetings he would finally hear Ennis say," Yes, I will ranch up and live with you. ". The confrontation scene where things were said which were never spoken of before was a sign that the hope was fading. I think Jack realized alot lot of important things that day, involving exactly where he stood in the relationship as well as Ennis. I said before that Jack's feelings were, if he was gonna give up this fight, Ennis was gonna damn well know why.  Who could blame him? the past had finally caught up to the present.

Ennis gave him no choice but to say what was in his heart.  But in this case feelings overide words, Jack may have went down fighting, but his love for Ennis, and Ennis's love for him remained strong as ever. Niether one could  ever deny it. .The passion displayed in that scene spoke to the depth of their love and how much it meant to each other. Had Jack not died, the situation would have been ripe with possibilities, good or bad. Everything was now out in the open. Either way, a resolution  to the  unacceptable status quo could have been forthcoming. MO.

[tpe]

tpe makes a solid point.  Jack death yes a tragedy, but at the final confrontation, the things that were felt unknowingly of both Jack and Ennis were brought out was at its heart reason for that one moment of truth.  

These men were friends, and lovers for twenty years, their relationship was more important than any things in their life.  But Jack's frustration with Ennis, and Ennis's suspicion of Jack's fidelity weighted down by fear society,  broke wide open that day.  It was just a matter of time the truth about how each man were living their lives had to brought out.   For them it took twenty years, but compare that to the so little time they did have with each other.   I think it's the testament to that love, that both men weren't afraid to be vulnerable to each other, and let it all out.   Which showed how much both Jack and Ennis invested in their love, and what it took for each to hold on to it.


Just my take.

Which is why I think Jack's anger was good for Ennis in the long run -- it opened Jack's eyes to Ennis's vulnerability, as it opened Ennis's eyes to Jack's.

Could you imagine how much worse it would have been had Jack just kept quiet in their final meeting and died?

[tpe]

***

Ennis gave him no choice but to say what was in his heart.  But in this case feelings overide words, Jack may have went down fighting, but his love for Ennis, and Ennis's love for him remained strong as ever. Niether one could  ever deny it. .The passion displayed in that scene spoke to the depth of their love and how much it meant to each other. Had Jack not died, the situation would have been ripe with possibilities, good or bad. Everything was now out in the open. Either way, a resolution  to the  unacceptable status quo could have been forthcoming. MO.

And the "wonderful" thing about this is that Jack also didn't give Ennis a choice in the last confrontation -- it was a confrontation because Jack was unwilling to back down.  Ennis had to hear him out, if only to make him realize what was really in his (Jack's) heart.

And yes, even this -- no matter how much it pained them for so little a change.-- was better than the status quo.

[Matt Nasty]

And the "wonderful" thing about this is that Jack also didn't give Ennis a choice in the last confrontation -- it was a confrontation because Jack was unwilling to back down.  Ennis had to hear him out, if only to make him realize what was really in his (Jack's) heart.

And yes, even this -- no matter how much it pained them for so little a change.-- was better than the status quo.

well said tpe .

ive got to say after whatching this argument again i think this argument is as ive said before justified on jacks half but what hurts me is jack saying the whole "i wish i could quit you" thing it makes me feel then when ennis breaks down in jakes arm i feel it such a revalation that he is actually showing his emotions. i feel traumatised by the argument and the things said on both sides but then once they embrace it gives me a kind off warm feeling inside but it still upsets me that it was the last time they met before jacks death and they argued  :\'(.

[aintfoolin]

And the "wonderful" thing about this is that Jack also didn't give Ennis a choice in the last confrontation -- it was a confrontation because Jack was unwilling to back down.  Ennis had to hear him out, if only to make him realize what was really in his (Jack's) heart.

And yes, even this -- no matter how much it pained them for so little a change.-- was better than the status quo.

 Niether one was backing down in this until Jack delivers the *knock out punch* saying '" I wish I knew how to quit you".  This scared Ennis I believe, Jack was looking to end it or wished he could. Ennis could not deal with this. , but really, what did he mean by "it's cause a you, I'm like this, nothin, nowhere?

[manhattangirl]

Niether one was backing down in this until Jack delivers the *knock out punch* saying '" I wish I knew how to quit you".  This scared Ennis I believe, Jack was looking to end it or wished he could. Ennis could not deal with this. , but really, what did he mean by "it's cause a you, I'm like this, nothin, nowhere?

That for me is the mystery question.  What did Ennis mean when he said this. It was as if he stayed in '63 not moving, but living in that moment of "63 as the years past, but Jack evolving before his eyes changing to this man who is finally confronting him.    There's a sense of betrayal in Ennis's accusation, "It's because of you Jack, I'm like this."  Not because he loved another man, but because Jack knew full well, why he was the way he was, tire irons, irrigation ditches, and all of what it meant, death.  He loved Jack so much, so deeply, that he fear of losing him was greater than Jack's fear of not having a sweet life.  And those tire irons haunted Ennis even after Jack's death.

Does this make sense?

[Matt Nasty]

That for me is the mystery question.  What did Ennis mean when he said this. It was as if he stayed in '63 not moving, but living in that moment of "63 as the years past, but Jack evolving before his eyes changing to this man who is finally confronting him.    There's a sense of betrayal in Ennis's accusation, "It's because of you Jack, I'm like this."  Not because he loved another man, but because Jack knew full well, why he was the way he was, tire irons, irrigation ditches, and all of what it meant, death.  He loved Jack so much, so deeply, that he fear of losing him was greater than Jack's fear of not having a sweet life.  And those tire irons haunted Ennis even after Jack's death.

Does this make sense?

perfect sense, beautiful post

[tpe]

well said tpe .

ive got to say after whatching this argument again i think this argument is as ive said before justified on jacks half but what hurts me is jack saying the whole "i wish i could quit you" thing it makes me feel then when ennis breaks down in jakes arm i feel it such a revalation that he is actually showing his emotions. i feel traumatised by the argument and the things said on both sides but then once they embrace it gives me a kind off warm feeling inside but it still upsets me that it was the last time they met before jacks death and they argued  :\'(.

I think Jack was also surprised by the show of emotion.  If jack's losing his temper achieved anything, it was this, although it did come at a price -- no doubt causing Ennis a great deal of pain.

[tpe]

Niether one was backing down in this until Jack delivers the *knock out punch* saying '" I wish I knew how to quit you".  This scared Ennis I believe, Jack was looking to end it or wished he could. Ennis could not deal with this. , but really, what did he mean by "it's cause a you, I'm like this, nothin, nowhere?

The implication of the statement "I wish I knew how to quit you" is of course this: that Jack was unable or unwilling to quit Ennis, and the tension between this and the unhappy reality was the source of all his anger and frustrations, no?

I do think you are right: the pendant to Jack's statement is indeed Ennis's: ""Tt's cause a you, I'm like this, nothin, nowhere..."

[tpe]

That for me is the mystery question.  What did Ennis mean when he said this. It was as if he stayed in '63 not moving, but living in that moment of "63 as the years past, but Jack evolving before his eyes changing to this man who is finally confronting him.    There's a sense of betrayal in Ennis's accusation, "It's because of you Jack, I'm like this."  Not because he loved another man, but because Jack knew full well, why he was the way he was, tire irons, irrigation ditches, and all of what it meant, death.  He loved Jack so much, so deeply, that he fear of losing him was greater than Jack's fear of not having a sweet life.  And those tire irons haunted Ennis even after Jack's death.

Does this make sense?

In a way, Ennis was blaming Jack for revealing to him who he really was, no?   It is a poigniant counter to jack's anger, and revealed a lot about the nature of Ennis's conflict and strange ambivalence towards his meetings with Jack.  It was enough to quiet Jack's anger, it seemed...

[Matt Nasty]

I think Jack was also surprised by the show of emotion.  If jack's losing his temper achieved anything, it was this, although it did come at a price -- no doubt causing Ennis a great deal of pain.

yer, i admire ennis's will power though the way he never slept with any other men like jack did but his will power seems to be realated to his stuborn atitude with out it he may have given into to temptation but with it he found it hard to accept him self for who he really was rather then who he was raised to beleive he was.

one way or another it's clear this argument was an emotional revelation for ennis and jack and even if the things uncovered wernt necciseraly good they were important for each other to know.

[tpe]

yer, i admire ennis's will power though the way he never slept with any other men like jack did but his will power seems to be realated to his stuborn atitude with out it he may have given into to temptation but with it he found it hard to accept him self for who he really was rather then who he was raised to beleive he was.

one way or another it's clear this argument was an emotional revelation for ennis and jack and even if the things uncovered wernt necciseraly good they were important for each other to know.

I think Ennis's conflicted nature was enough to keep him away from other affairs even if he desired them -- this was at the root of Jack's anger: that Ennis simply didn't want to let go and follow his dreams and desires.

[Matt Nasty]

I think Ennis's conflicted nature was enough to keep him away from other affairs even if he desired them -- this was at the root of Jack's anger: that Ennis simply didn't want to let go and follow his dreams and desires.

everything you write even if its not alot is so meaningful thanks for your posts tpe