Topic: Heath Ledger - In Loving Memory

[myprivatejack]

A SO GREAT TALENT AS YOURS SHOULD BE BY OUR SIDE TO GIVE US ALL THE EMOTIONS YOUR ROLES MADE US FEEL.BUT SOMEONE IN THE HIGH HAS WANTED YOU TO PERFORM AN ETERNAL ROLE IN HEAVEN...

[keren_b]

A SO GREAT TALENT AS YOURS SHOULD BE BY OUR SIDE TO GIVE US ALL THE EMOTIONS YOUR ROLES MADE US FEEL.BUT SOMEONE IN THE HIGH HAS WANTED YOU TO PERFORM AN ETERNAL ROLE IN HEAVEN...

Oh Ali, the lyrics of the song together with the pic are so heartbreaking... How I wish, how I wish you were here"... :\'( :\'( :\'(

[myprivatejack]

Oh Ali, the lyrics of the song together with the pic are so heartbreaking... How I wish, how I wish you were here"... :\'( :\'( :\'(

Keren, 

[Tony]

    All through this memorial thread, there've been occasional wonderings and, yes, insecurities, about saying you have loved someone you never met.  A person can feel like : "What's wrong with me?  I'm grieving all these months later over someone who never knew I even existed and who I never even sat down and talked with, even one time."
   Well, there had to have been those, amongst the many thousands he knew personally, who didn't have an overwhelming love for him.  He just wasn't their type.  No harm there.  And as for those who were very close to him and DID love him, it's possible they missed at least a little bit, so close to the trees they did not see the forest.  So there would be room for those who never met him, but saw an overview, from a distance, and were therefore maybe able to see Heath in ways that day-to day living could distract from.  That can't be ruled out.
  So then the question is, did you love him and do you still grieve him?  And if the answer is yes, that love is as legitimate and real, in its own way, as that of those who knew him up-close.  No doubt if you HAD met, there would have been adjustments to make, and more practical judgments, but the love would still be there, even with the adapting to the day-to-day person.
  All am saying is, if you loved him and never met him, and that holds up through the years, it is a legitimate love, formed from a distance, untested by the realities of personal contact, yes, but still real.  That can happen.  I also think, if there's anything after this life, that love would be accepted and returned.  The fact that you DID love, and that it held up, is the only relevant fact, not whether you met.  I hope this might be considered as possible by those who still are suffering, and, please, never rule anything out.  Real love...would always be returned, once known.
  Finally, Heath's tracking of Nick Drake, showed empathy and maybe love, not obsession. He never met Nick Drake, but did identify a soul he thought worthy of investing in, emotionally. He wasn't embarrassed to pursue and embrace a person never personally known.  He felt a connection.  And so, for those who feel that same connection with Heath, he left you the answer, for he had been there, himself.

[ksxks]

    All through this memorial thread, there've been occasional wonderings and, yes, insecurities, about saying you have loved someone you never met.  A person can feel like : "What's wrong with me?  I'm grieving all these months later over someone who never knew I even existed and who I never even sat down and talked with, even one time."
   Well, there had to have been those, amongst the many thousands he knew personally, who didn't have an overwhelming love for him.  He just wasn't their type.  No harm there.  And as for those who were very close to him and DID love him, it's possible they missed at least a little bit, so close to the trees they did not see the forest.  So there would be room for those who never met him, but saw an overview, from a distance, and were therefore maybe able to see Heath in ways that day-to day living could distract from.  That can't be ruled out.
  So then the question is, did you love him and do you still grieve him?  And if the answer is yes, that love is as legitimate and real, in its own way, as that of those who knew him up-close.  No doubt if you HAD met, there would have been adjustments to make, and more practical judgments, but the love would still be there, even with the adapting to the day-to-day person.
  All am saying is, if you loved him and never met him, and that holds up through the years, it is a legitimate love, formed from a distance, untested by the realities of personal contact, yes, but still real.  That can happen.  I also think, if there's anything after this life, that love would be accepted and returned.  The fact that you DID love, and that it held up, is the only relevant fact, not whether you met.  I hope this might be considered as possible by those who still are suffering, and, please, never rule anything out.  Real love...would always be returned, once known.
  Finally, Heath's tracking of Nick Drake, showed empathy and maybe love, not obsession. He never met Nick Drake, but did identify a soul he thought worthy of investing in, emotionally. He wasn't embarrassed to pursue and embrace a person never personally known.  He felt a connection.  And so, for those who feel that same connection with Heath, he left you the answer, for he had been there, himself.

Most fascinating, Tony, and you said it well.  There is certainly something there in the idea that love does not require that the persons involved have ever met physically face-to-face.  And the re-connection doesn't even have to be "later," after this so-called life, but can be anywhere in the ethers, if we are attuned...

Meanwhile...my heart still weeps for the loss of Heath's physical presence...

kathy

[lancecowboy]

[...]  All am saying is, if you loved him and never met him, and that holds up through the years, it is a legitimate love, formed from a distance, untested by the realities of personal contact, yes, but still real.  That can happen.  I also think, if there's anything after this life, that love would be accepted and returned.  The fact that you DID love, and that it held up, is the only relevant fact, not whether you met.  I hope this might be considered as possible by those who still are suffering, and, please, never rule anything out.  Real love...would always be returned, once known.
  Finally, Heath's tracking of Nick Drake, showed empathy and maybe love, not obsession. He never met Nick Drake, but did identify a soul he thought worthy of investing in, emotionally. He wasn't embarrassed to pursue and embrace a person never personally known.  He felt a connection.  And so, for those who feel that same connection with Heath, he left you the answer, for he had been there, himself.

Thanks, Tony. I am glad you reminded me of Heath's own confession to being obsessed with Nick Drake. I agree with your assessment that Heath empathized even loved Nick Drake as a kindred spirit. I have never been embarrassed to admit to my deeply mourning Heath. It was simply being open and honest about my feelings; it was living Brokeback Mountain. Now, with your reminder, I am proud to confess my own obsession with Heath, because it is an obsession born of empathy for a soul mate I never met, love for a kindred spirit whom I yearned for from a distance. Thanks, Tony. 

[lamusica]

Beautiful post, Tony.  It is funny how I someimes find myself being more demonstrative with people I do not know too well than I am with those who are very close to me.  It is so easy to say "I love you" to some people-- and MEAN it--and almost impossible to say it to someone you really thing you should be able to say it to easily.  Does this make any sense?  
I cry everytime I see a photo or hear a reference to Heath, but have had relatives die for whom I have not shed one tear.  That's where your statement about seeing the overview of a person when you really don't know them personally comes in.  While we have never met Heath, we have seen him in so many ways -- as his characters, as himself in his own personal metamorphosis brought on by aging, and as his photos, many of which I consider to be little gems containing pieces of the man I could never meet, but for whom I still had great admiration and deep feelings.
I have a second double-cousin for whom I weep everytime I think of him.  I have the same reaction to thoughts of Heath.  No one else gets to me like those two.  I just wonder why that is.......

[FlwrChild]

Tony, you have expressed that view so well and I completely agree with it. Thanks for putting it so eloquently into words for us.

Beautiful post, Tony.  It is funny how I someimes find myself being more demonstrative with people I do not know too well than I am with those who are very close to me.  It is so easy to say "I love you" to some people-- and MEAN it--and almost impossible to say it to someone you really thing you should be able to say it to easily.  Does this make any sense?  
I cry everytime I see a photo or hear a reference to Heath, but have had relatives die for whom I have not shed one tear.  That's where your statement about seeing the overview of a person when you really don't know them personally comes in.  While we have never met Heath, we have seen him in so many ways -- as his characters, as himself in his own personal metamorphosis brought on by aging, and as his photos, many of which I consider to be little gems containing pieces of the man I could never meet, but for whom I still had great admiration and deep feelings.I have a second double-cousin for whom I weep everytime I think of him.  I have the same reaction to thoughts of Heath.  No one else gets to me like those two.  I just wonder why that is.......

Makes perfect sense to me lamusica. Sometimes people we meet through avenues outside of family or long-term friends, especially through particular venues that speak to both of you, are easier to express those feelings to/with because we don't have the baggage of our past perceptions and pre-set boundaries to struggle against. And I so understand about the "little gems containing pieces of the man I could never meet, but for whom I still had great admiration and deep feelings." Well put.

[christie wood]

A SO GREAT TALENT AS YOURS SHOULD BE BY OUR SIDE TO GIVE US ALL THE EMOTIONS YOUR ROLES MADE US FEEL.BUT SOMEONE IN THE HIGH HAS WANTED YOU TO PERFORM AN ETERNAL ROLE IN HEAVEN...

This is gorgeous mpj, all of it....the lyrics to this song are really beautiful and meaningful anyway, but associated with Heath, well they are just heartbreaking...... :\'( :\'(

[Tony]

      Dear Kathy, Andrew, Lamusica, and FlwrChild - thanks so much for understanding.  If there's only one person out there struggling with that issue, of loving Heath, but never having met him, you did, together, reassure them so very well.  We know there's many more than one, so you really did Heath's work for him. Given what we know of him, if the love for him was real, and enduring, he would have wanted to accept and return it. You did his work, very well, and I do see it that way, doing for him, what he would have wanted done.  Much love, Tony.

[cowgirlKt!]

A SO GREAT TALENT AS YOURS SHOULD BE BY OUR SIDE TO GIVE US ALL THE EMOTIONS YOUR ROLES MADE US FEEL.BUT SOMEONE IN THE HIGH HAS WANTED YOU TO PERFORM AN ETERNAL ROLE IN HEAVEN...

wow i love this its beautiful! So much energy and emotion in this art. thanks for sharing

      Dear Kathy, Andrew, Lamusica, and FlwrChild - thanks so much for understanding.  If there's only one person out there struggling with that issue, of loving Heath, but never having met him, you did, together, reassure them so very well.  We know there's many more than one, so you really did Heath's work for him. Given what we know of him, if the love for him was real, and enduring, he would have wanted to accept and return it. You did his work, very well, and I do see it that way, doing for him, what he would have wanted done.  Much love, Tony.

Thankyou Tony for your words on helping us understand how we mourn someone even still, now, even though we never met Heath. I love what you say and you have made it more clear in my mind, how it is possible and theres nothing wrong with loving someone i never met. Also how Heath thought highly of Nick Drake, like how we think of Heath himself, you are right he had been there himself so would have accepted our love too, im sure he does now too looking down on us all smiling i hope. Thanks Tony great words.

[babytammy7]

    All through this memorial thread, there've been occasional wonderings and, yes, insecurities, about saying you have loved someone you never met.  A person can feel like : "What's wrong with me?  I'm grieving all these months later over someone who never knew I even existed and who I never even sat down and talked with, even one time."
   Well, there had to have been those, amongst the many thousands he knew personally, who didn't have an overwhelming love for him.  He just wasn't their type.  No harm there.  And as for those who were very close to him and DID love him, it's possible they missed at least a little bit, so close to the trees they did not see the forest.  So there would be room for those who never met him, but saw an overview, from a distance, and were therefore maybe able to see Heath in ways that day-to day living could distract from.  That can't be ruled out.
  So then the question is, did you love him and do you still grieve him?  And if the answer is yes, that love is as legitimate and real, in its own way, as that of those who knew him up-close.  No doubt if you HAD met, there would have been adjustments to make, and more practical judgments, but the love would still be there, even with the adapting to the day-to-day person.
  All am saying is, if you loved him and never met him, and that holds up through the years, it is a legitimate love, formed from a distance, untested by the realities of personal contact, yes, but still real.  That can happen.  I also think, if there's anything after this life, that love would be accepted and returned.  The fact that you DID love, and that it held up, is the only relevant fact, not whether you met.  I hope this might be considered as possible by those who still are suffering, and, please, never rule anything out.  Real love...would always be returned, once known.
  Finally, Heath's tracking of Nick Drake, showed empathy and maybe love, not obsession. He never met Nick Drake, but did identify a soul he thought worthy of investing in, emotionally. He wasn't embarrassed to pursue and embrace a person never personally known.  He felt a connection.  And so, for those who feel that same connection with Heath, he left you the answer, for he had been there, himself.

This is so beautiful Tony, and most important, this is so true!!

Thank you so much for this, really!! You opened my eyes....

[myprivatejack]

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there: I do not sleep
I am a thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond glints off snow
I am the sunlight on ripened grain
I am the gentle autumn's rain

Do not stand by my grave and mourn
I am the dew-flecked grass at dawn
Where tranquil oceans meet the land
I am the footprints in the sand
To guide you through the weary day
I am still here, I'll always stay

When you wake up to the morning hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight
I am the stars that shine at night
Do not stand at my grave and cry
I am not there: I did not die

[Matt Nasty]

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there: I do not sleep
I am a thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond glints off snow
I am the sunlight on ripened grain
I am the gentle autumn's rain

Do not stand by my grave and mourn
I am the dew-flecked grass at dawn
Where tranquil oceans meet the land
I am the footprints in the sand
To guide you through the weary day
I am still here, I'll always stay

When you wake up to the morning hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight
I am the stars that shine at night
Do not stand at my grave and cry
I am not there: I did not die

thats gorgeouse and so very very true  :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

[FlwrChild]

That's one of my favorites mpj, and as Zankou said, so very true. Thanks for sharing it.

[myprivatejack]

thats gorgeouse and so very very true  :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

That's one of my favorites mpj, and as Zankou said, so very true. Thanks for sharing it.

Thanks,Barb and Matt¡  Yes,it's very true and that's how I feel,how we all feel.Heath is not in a grave,he's not even some ashes blowing in the wind in some place he loved...He's this wind,and the clouds,he falls over us with the raindrops,he warms us with the sun,he's every sand grain,every tree's leaf,every snowflake,every flower petal...He's everything and in everything that is free,because he' s free also now.He belongs to nobody and to everybody because the main point is that now is everything but also is a part of all of us.He remains inside us and he will remain forever inside us.

[ethan]

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there: I do not sleep
I am a thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond glints off snow
I am the sunlight on ripened grain
I am the gentle autumn's rain

Do not stand by my grave and mourn
I am the dew-flecked grass at dawn
Where tranquil oceans meet the land
I am the footprints in the sand
To guide you through the weary day
I am still here, I'll always stay

When you wake up to the morning hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight
I am the stars that shine at night
Do not stand at my grave and cry
I am not there: I did not die

How coincidental to see this one engraved on a memorial in Wittier, Alaska.

[titabeille]

I am not there: I did not die
[/center]

Well said dear Alicia : He is not there but he is not died for us 

[LuvJackNasty]

So many beautiful posts here. I still have to go back and read a few pages but all of the ones stemming from Tony’s post of loving and mourning one we have not met hit home.
It is absolutely possible to feel that way and that is evidenced by all of who gather here.
As Lasmusica said, we got to see him in the various incarnations of characters, photos and interviews. We got to know the parts he let us know and that is really no different than the people we know in “real life”. And  we are learning even more about this beautiful soul through the people that did get the privilege of encountering him, even briefly, while he was still amongst us.

There are some that feel this is unnatural or even unhealthy and that is fine- they are entitled to their feelings and by the same token so are we. I had spoken to my oldest friend who got rather unnerved by those that would judge. She isn’t a member here but did see BBM with me and totally gets this forum and in her words “When I heard about it I was sad for him, for his daughter, for his family and friends and sad for all of you on the forum because I know what he means to you (all of us) and what he brought to you.” There was more but she feels it is totally natural and sees nothing odd about the way we all feel and I know she means that because she’d have told me the opposite if she felt it. And due to certain things, I did speak about it with my therapist last week and long story short she feels the same as my friend- there is absolutely nothing wrong with mourning this loss. She had even called me on that night in January to check on me when she heard the news. I had told her about the memorial we left in EC and she thought it was wonderful, in some ways healing and that no one can quantify someone else’s grief- how they grieve, how long they grieve, who they mourn or even why we do. She said it is totally normal especially considering that he meant something in our lives.

When I was in California a whole lifetime ago, my main goal was to go visit Marilyn Monroe’s grave to pay my respects- which I did and I had my walkman and played “Candle in the Wind” and this was a woman who was dead almost a decade before I was even born. I guess that is not really necessary to include in my ramble here but for some reason I felt like saying it. And I guess it kind of goes to the point that we can care for someone we never knew. I know personally I still cry on Sept 11. I (fortunately) didn’t know one person lost that day but did that make me any less sad or heartbroken? No. I cried over Oklahoma City, Hurricane Katrina, the tsunami etc and I didn’t cry for the moment, I followed those stories and wept for those I never knew existed, for a long while.

Do we need to actually know someone to feel anything for them? No, at least IMO. There is a difference in that we had a connection to him, felt we knew him through different mediums and do we love him? You bet. Do we need to justify our feelings? Nope. And I, for one, am so glad to have this place that allows us to express ourselves freely, where we are never alone, to be with those that understand and to not question or be questioned about our feelings.  to everyone

[ksxks]

Beautiful post, LJN.  I know just what you're saying -- Marilyn Monroe, 9/11, Katrina, the tsunami, the earthquake in China...  Seems to be no time or geography that gets in the way of love and feelings, relating and empathy; and how we express them is due to each of our own constitutions.

kathy

[babytammy7]

Gorgeous and touching post, Michelle. You said it all so beautifully. I totally agree. I said once, in this very thread, that I use to cry when I hear bad news on TV, when I read that someone tortured some dog, when I find that someone killed a child, when I see how people die in Africa, or when I hear how many old people is abandoned....I cry everyday....

Sometimes people don't get me, and I have a co worker who used to call me Piruleta (Candy) or Flower Power, just because I cry for people I don't know and I use to defend animals and hepless people....I don't care what he says. I'm not gonna change myself, when I find my feelings so right. He has changed a bit these two last months, and now he asks me to eat with him and even he wants to travel with me this summer. I think that he's starting to understand that crying for people you don't know it's not weak but utterly beautiful. If you have a generous heart you're stronger than many of those who don't understand the pain of unknown people. We are all human beings. We cry, and laugh and feel tired or hungry, no matter who you are. So our pain and tragedies are all the same. If you are not able to feel sad for others, even if you don't know them, then there's something incomplete in your perception of the human being. I mean, when I see something like the earthquake in China I cry, and not only because the immense pain of those people, but also because those people could be me.....I could be Matilda, living without a father...I could be Heath's mother, living without a son...I could be Heath, leaving my dreams unfinished, being so far when I had a lot of love to give....

Sorry so much for the rambling. I know it has nothing to do with this thread, but Michelle just hit me deep.

[keren_b]

Thank you for this post Michelle. I agree with everything you said.

To be honest, I don't pay much mind anymore to people who can't understand my feelings about Heath. The fact that they can't understand it doesn't make my feelings and my grief any less real or legitimate. For me, Heath was and still is a part of my life. He's a person that I love, that touched my soul and had a huge impact on me, and I don't owe anyone any explanations if I still cry over him.

One of the things that made the gathering in Wisconsin so emotional for me, apart from finally meeting friends that I've been waiting to meet for so long, was the fact that I was finally able to grieve over Heath with other brokies. I cried a lot... I cried when we brought out the gifts and I saw his posters and postcards and the booklets that Barb and Michelle made and the newspapers that Pauline brought. I cried when I sat on the bed with Jess and we had a long talk about him and our feelings for him and how we found out and what it did to us. I cried when I watched the movie and thought that he was no longer with us, and I cried when we did that memorial thing by the river in the park. And in each and every one of these times people were crying with me, and I had someone to hug me and share my feelings and I wasn't alone, and that was hugely significant for me. Finally being with people who understand and feel the same. If other people can't understand that and think that I'm crazy... well, I don't feel the need to apologise for that.

[babytammy7]

And in each and every one of these times people were crying with me, and I had someone to hug me and share my feelings and I wasn't alone, and that was hugely significant for me. Finally being with people who understand and feel the same. If other people can't understand that and think that I'm crazy... well, I don't feel the need to apologise for that.

That's so precious Keren, really priceless. I've spent my whole life waiting for that kind of friendship and understanding. I was so alone when I saw BBM two years and half ago; so thanks God, I already had you all when Heath died. I know well what you're saying here. I'm glad we are not alone anymore. And well, totally agree with your last line. 

[1depp]

 :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
When I first heard about this, I thought they had said Keith Ledger.  Later on in the day, my mum text me and told me that it was Heath Ledger that had passed away.  I could not stop thinking about it, and I cried for two days.  I felt for Michelle, his family, and, especially his daughter.  I have a pic of him and Matilda in my room and I tear up every time I see it.  I had read about a man who sees the dead, James Van Praagh, who had said that he saw Heath in the mirror.  Heath said, "I f------ up."  He thought about his daughter, and then left.  I am hoping that, when the time is right, he can have a chat with Michelle.   

[Hayley]

Some beautiful posts again from everyone but a special nod to Tony & LuvJackNasty.

I've been in London this past weekend, and after getting upset at the sign for Cheapside, I went & lit a candle for Heath at St Paul's Cathedral & stood silently with my thoughts for a while.

[myprivatejack]

Beautifully done,Hayley¡  I'm sure that your message send by your thoughts has arrived to Heath where he's now...

[Hayley]

Beautifully done,Hayley¡  I'm sure that your message send by your thoughts has arrived to Heath where he's now...

I'd like to think so and 

[jessicat80]

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there: I do not sleep
I am a thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond glints off snow
I am the sunlight on ripened grain
I am the gentle autumn's rain

Do not stand by my grave and mourn
I am the dew-flecked grass at dawn
Where tranquil oceans meet the land
I am the footprints in the sand
To guide you through the weary day
I am still here, I'll always stay

When you wake up to the morning hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight
I am the stars that shine at night
Do not stand at my grave and cry
I am not there: I did not die

How coincidental to see this one engraved on a memorial in Wittier, Alaska.

Oh wow Ethan, I love beautiful coincidences like that, it reminds me of you meeting the Hong Kong brokies at the Cafe, and it just happened to be called the "I Swear" cafe! I loved the post of that poem, and wondered where it came from.

[lancecowboy]

Twenty-two weeks later
You are still here
I can pretend you went somewhere
Doing a shoot in a location far far away
But the reality of missing you
Hit once in a while like a ton of bricks
When out of the blue
A line in a news article saying
You meant to walk the Great Wall with your friends
Would put me into tears and thoughts of you return
For days and days again

I can pretend you went away
Making more great movies and so I wait
For the movies to come out, and I wait
Buying your masterpieces like Candy and Monster's Ball
Pretending they are still new and fresh
But the heart sees through all pretenses
And nothing can hide the missing of you
Twenty-two weeks or twenty-two years
When the cold cruel world lies and cheats and steals
I think of your warm smile, and feel that you are near
I see the sun and the sand and the surf on the shore
I see the happy sweet life in Shelter
And feel again what you intended us to be
You are as real now, as you ever were, as you alway will be

[LuvJackNasty]

Beautiful Andrew  :\'(