Topic: Buddhism: Ennis fears the "Thing" (1967); Jack's favorite memory of Ennis (1983)

[jetzenpolis]

Buddhism: Ennis fears the "Thing" (1967); Jack's favorite memory of Ennis (1983)

Annie Proulx ends her January 19, 2006 interview with "Bookworm" radio show host Michael Silverblatt (KCRW 89.9 FM, Santa Monica, CA) by saying that Brokeback Mountain is all about "desire."  Heath Ledger said in his December 7, 2005 interview with Charlie Rose on the Charlie Rose Show that Ang Lee told him to be "still" (quieting the fidgety hands and flailing arms of Heath Ledger as he talked).

There is an aching yearning in all that Ennis & Jack feel for each other.  Perhaps it's a sense of impending loss through their inevitable separation (that Ennis demands of Jack when he tells Jack this is a "one shot deal" the evening after the night they first have sex together in the cook camp tent). 

Perhaps the sense of loss goes deeper than that.  The awe that their emotions fill them with becomes a source of desire.  How can these emotions be kept?  How can they be preserved?  What is left of us when such inspiring emotions are gone?

Coming down from Brokeback Mountain, back to Signal, WY, is not the end of the bond Ennis & Jack have forged between themselves, however.  Ennis proclaims to Jack, to the world, to himself that he is not "queer" on the evening after they first had sex.  Jack, probably anxious not to discourage Ennis's willingness to continue such intimacy, agrees, saying "me neither" but without much conviction, with a look in his eyes that he knows that being "queer" is precisely what he is. 

But Ennis finds himself becoming ill after Jack drives off to his parents' ranch in Lightning Flat, WY from Signal, WY.  He thinks his dry heaves are simply a bad hangover.  But it takes him a long time to get over the feeling. 

He later tells Jack at the Siesta Motel in 1967, the night after they first see each other again, that it took him a year to realize what that feeling was.  (He was in love with Jack.)  But by that time, he was already married to his fiance, Alma.  If he could do it over, he said it would be done different for him and Jack.

Ennis & Jack, upon seeing each other for the first time in four summers in 1967 at the bottom of the steps up to the landing of Ennis's & Alma's inexpensive apartment over the laundromat in Riverton, WY, embrace and kiss (with Ennis initiating the kiss, after he looks to the side to see if anyone is looking, not realizing that a stunned Alma is watching them through the screen door of the apartment).

Ennis is frightened of the strength of the emotions that overtook them, causing Ennis & Jack to throw caution to the wind.  He calls it the "Thing."  He's afraid that if it happens to them again, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, as he tells Jack later that night in bed at the Siesta Motel, "We're dead."

Ennis does fear that they will be killed by homophobic vigilantes (who may be less interested in their sexuality than in seeking entertainment through brutality, bullying, torture, and murder).  But there is also a suspicion that this Thing that he and Jack feel for each other is something to be wary of, perhaps, not just because it could get them killed (if it shows up, unexpected at the wrong place, at the wrong time).  Ennis tells Jack that they have their marriages and children now, they must remain "decent." 

Ennis may desire to keep a self-image of himself that doesn't include open homosexuality.  But he may also have doubts about any feeling, whether it's a good feeling or a bad feeling, that has gone "out of control."  (Certainly, Ennis has seen very ugly emotions in his older brother K.E.'s bullying of him and his father's laughter at the old gay rancher Earl's body in the irrigation ditch with his penis pulled off when Ennis was 9 years old and K.E. was 11 years old.) 

Jack does wish to continue to throw caution to the wind.  He has a plan to get Lureen's father (who Jack says hates him) to pay off Jack to leave his wife, Lureen.  The money will help them to fix up Jack's parents' ranch in Lightning Flat, WY where they can become ranch partners.  (Jack's plans don't seem to contain much room for a continued presence in the life of Bobby, his son with Lureen or for Ennis in the lives of Alma, Jr. and Jenny, his daughters with Alma, though.) 

As the years go by - perhaps especially after Ennis's divorce from Alma and his later Thanksgiving kitchen argument with Alma (which starts when Ennis says "...once burned" in reply to Alma's suggestion that he find another woman, Alma responding by asking if he still sees Jack; ending with Alma saying "Jack Twist?...Jack Nasty!" and Ennis telling her she knows "nuthin' about it") - Ennis sees Jack less frequently ("a couple of times a year" as Jack puts it).

In their May 1983 argument, Ennis "cuts fence" crossing a line that turns them bitterly against each other.  Jack has been complaining that he doesn't get to see very often anymore an Ennis who used "to come away easy."  He would like to go together someplace "warm" (such as Mexico).  Ennis replies, "Mexico, Jack?  I've heard about what boys like you do in Mexico."  He goes on, "If I ever find out what I don't know, it could get you killed Jack Twist!"  Jack becomes angry, complaining that he, unlike Ennis, can't get by "on a couple of high altitude fucks a year."  Jack ends by saying "I'd like to how I can quit you!" to a now emotionally devastated Ennis.  Jack tries to put his arms around Ennis to embrace and comfort him and is, at first, rebuffed.  Then Ennis relents.  Jack tells him it will be alright.   

When Ennis leaves in his pickup truck, Jack flashes back to his favorite memory of Ennis - on Brokeback Mt. in 1963, with Ennis holding him from behind, rocking him into a trance in front of the campfire, humming a song 19 year old Ennis learned from his mother in long ago childhood - that satisfied a "sexless" hunger in Jack.  But Jack, perhaps in a moment of intuition, returns to the present seeing Ennis drive off.  There's a great sadness in his eyes.  When Jack arrives at his parents' ranch in Lightning Flat, WY, he tells them of his plans for a Texas ranch neighbor to be his new partner on the Twist family ranch in Wyoming.     


Annie Proulx on "Bookworm" (interview with Michael Silverblatt) KCRW 89.9 FM (Santa Monica, CA) 1/19/2006
www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/bw/bw060119annie_proulx

Charlie Rose Show: A conversation about the film "Brokeback Mountain" 12/07/2005
(interviews: Ang Lee, Heath Ledger)
www.charlierose.com/shows/2005/12/07/1/a-conversation-about-the-film-brokeback-mountain

[manhattangirl]

Ennis knew loss, it was ingrained in him.  His parents, his childhood home, and his innocence in the sense that his father brought him face to face with death.  His feeling for Jack was so big, so overwhelming that the loss of that was greater possibility for him than the thought of a sweet life.

Jack experience of total acceptance of him in the dozy embrace, was what he yearned for he never experience that with his father, he was always in search of that. 

What each man experience in the other is what they clung to and try to hold on to, but it's funny how just that need is what was pulling them apart.  The fear of getting what they wanted and needed, and the fear of losing it.  How many times we get scared when we even come close to what we desire the most. 

Just my 2cents. 

[jackster]

Nice essay jetzenpolis. However, I must confess I know little of Buddhism, maybe you can enlighten us.

The desire of peace (i.e. stillness). As you say MHG

. . . The fear of getting what they wanted and needed, and the fear of losing it. How many times we get scared when we even come close to what we desire the most.   

Maybe we are fearful of attainment, fearful that achievement (reality) will not live up to our imagined satisfaction. In life, in love, in peace. Ennis’s fear.

[jetzenpolis]

Ennis knew loss, it was ingrained in him....His feeling for Jack was so big, so overwhelming that the loss of that was greater possibility for him than the thought of a sweet life.

Jack experience of total acceptance of him in the dozy embrace, was what he yearned for he never experience that with his father, he was always in search of that. 

What each man experience in the other is what they clung to and try to hold on to, but it's funny how just that need is what was pulling them apart.  The fear of getting what they wanted and needed, and the fear of losing it.  How many times we get scared when we even come close to what we desire the most. 

Just my 2cents. 

[/quote]

Nice essay jetzenpolis. However, I must confess I know little of Buddhism, maybe you can enlighten us.

The desire of peace (i.e. stillness). As you say MHG

Maybe we are fearful of attainment, fearful that achievement (reality) will not live up to our imagined satisfaction. In life, in love, in peace. Ennis's fear.

hi mattangirl!

hi jackster!

I agree with you.  "Engrained" loss is a part of Ennis's "stoic" character.  Buddhism would sees such a "melancholy" sense of loss in Ennis as the result of having "desire."  (Ang Lee described Ennis as someone having the melancholy of an "Old West" fronteir that was lost with the end of the nineteenth century, in the first half of the same December 7, 2005 Charlie Rose Show interview that Heath Ledger also appeared in.)

For Buddha, "desire" is the cause of all suffering.  Ennis's sense of loss is the result of  his desire for what he had in the past; or, in the case of his love for Jack, an alternative course in life he could have taken but he is convinced can no longer be available to him now.

I think Jack accepted that things could never be "right" with his father.  Jack's father, John C. Twist, urinated on him for being too young to pee properly in the toilet without getting the floor around it wet.  Jack saw that his father's penis was uncircumcised, unlike his own.  Jack took his own circumcision as a sort branding, the same as done to ranch livestock, that marked him as the "property" of his father. 

But Jack still wanted his father to come to see him in the rodeo, though, as a teenager.  He remained embittered that his father never took time to teach him any of the rodeo tricks that his father knew from when he was something of a famous (local?) rodeo rider "in his day."  He would never have remained embittered if he didn't care whether his father wanted to make him a part of his life or not.

Did Jack continue to search for a way to overcome the wounds his father left upon him emotionally, either consciously or unconsciously?.  He does find an acceptance in Ennis's embrace.  Perhaps, it does overcome that sense of loss from the psychological scars his father left upon him. 

(Annie Proulx, as narrator, adds that Jack was never "fully conscious" of what that "sexless hunger" was in Jack's favorite memory of Ennis: holding him from behind, in front of the campfire, rocking him to sleep.  This suggests that Ennis was more conscious of his emotions for Jack - Ennis realizing a year later after they came down from Brokeback Mt. what had made him "sick" when Jack drove off from Signal, WY in his pickup truck in August 1963.)

"What each man experiences in the other is what they clung to..."  But, as you say, manhattangirl, it is (just) what they need that pulls them apart.  It's the desire for what they need that is the source of the anguish each of them feels, according to Buddhism.  (Even if what they desire might be good for them, the desire to have it still inflicts their suffering upon them, in the Buddhist view.)

[manhattangirl]

(Annie Proulx, as narrator, adds that Jack was never "fully conscious" of what that "sexless hunger" was in Jack's favorite memory of Ennis: holding him from behind, in front of the campfire, rocking him to sleep.  This suggests that Ennis was more conscious of his emotions for Jack - Ennis realizing a year later after they came down from Brokeback Mt. what had made him "sick" when Jack drove off from Signal, WY in his pickup truck in August 1963.)

"What each man experiences in the other is what they clung to..."  But, as you say, manhattangirl, it is (just) what they need that pulls them apart.  It's the desire for what they need that is the source of the anguish each of them feels, according to Buddhism.  (Even if what they desire might be good for them, the desire to have it still inflicts their suffering upon them, in the Buddhist view.)

This for me brings up the question of just that realization you spoke so beautifully,  and at the point that each man understood in their own way how they felt towards each other. 

Ennis walking up behind Jack rocking him gently, recalling his mother, that feeling of protectiveness, comfort, a place where all children feel when in the arms of parent who love them, and Jack being the recipient of just that type of love.

There was no fear in Ennis, no doubts, no hesitation, and Jack accepting it, taking it in, leaning against Ennis and letting him rock him into that twilight sleep of a child.  And bringing both to that point of unity that not even sex can do.  

Question is, was this something that Ennis felt all along, unconsciously, and what Jack finally understood, after  Ennis's breakdown that this one memory kicked in.   I don't know for me its like in Ennis's wings that Jack found shelter, and Ennis regained what he lost in loving Jack.  It was in this one moment is when the truth of this relationship is revealed.

Does this make any sense at all?   

[manhattangirl]

OT:    I sorry but this subject goes so far deeper than the surface.  I find I going deeper into what I myself feel.  jetzenpolis please be patient with me.

[jetzenpolis]

OT:    I sorry but this subject goes so far deeper than the surface.  I find I going deeper into what I myself feel.  jetzenpolis please be patient with me.

I understand manhattangirl!

Annie Proulx said in her January 19, 2006 "Bookworm" KCRW 89.9 FM interview (with Michael Silverblatt) and elsewhere that the story of Brokeback Mountain is written sparsely so that its readers draw upon their own personalities, personal histories, values, knowledge of others to fill in the blanks.  The reader participates in the telling of the story.  Every reader's (or movie watcher's) view of Brokeback Mt. will be from a unique perspective - that of their own life.

I think that what we are all doing, in one way or another, especially those of us who are participating in this forum and others about Brokeback Mt., is to describe our own questions about life.  What is important to us?  What are our values?  What are we searching for (especially in regards to romantic love)?  What sort of interactions do we find ourselves having with other people? 

Something in the story has made some connection to us in a very profound way, often subconsciously.  Our efforts to understand the story and its characters are our own way of better understanding our own questions about ourselves and others in our lives.

[aintfoolin]

I understand manhattangirl!

Annie Proulx said in her January 19, 2006 "Bookworm" KCRW 89.9 FM interview (with Michael Silverblatt) and elsewhere that the story of Brokeback Mountain is written sparsely so that its readers draw upon their own personalities, personal histories, values, knowledge of others to fill in the blanks.  The reader participates in the telling of the story.  Every reader's (or movie watcher's) view of Brokeback Mt. will be from a unique perspective - that of their own life.

I think that what we are all doing, in one way or another, especially those of us who are participating in this forum and others about Brokeback Mt., is to describe our own questions about life.  What is important to us?  What are our values?  What are we searching for (especially in regards to romantic love)?  What sort of interactions do we find ourselves having with other people? 

Something in the story has made some connection to us in a very profound way, often subconsciously.  Our efforts to understand the story and its characters are our own way of better understanding our own questions about ourselves and others in our lives.

Brilliantly stated, Heath said that the movie should raise more questions than answers. This is true, for over 2 years we are still questioning, based upon our own perspectives and personal feelings about this classic film. Brokeback got us all here good and I hope it will continue. ennisjack.com forever. Thanx.

[jetzenpolis]

Brilliantly stated, Heath said that the movie should raise more questions than answers. This is true, for over 2 years we are still questioning, based upon our own perspectives and personal feelings about this classic film. Brokeback got us all here good and I hope it will continue. ennisjack.com forever. Thanx.

Hi aintfoolin!

Brokeback has got us good!  Our different perspectives on Brokeback Mt. provide us with a window not only into our own souls but also those of other people, especially those who share our keen interest in Ennis & Jack and the other characters of Brokeback Mt.

I would like to think that our questions about Brokeback Mt. will also provide some answers to our questions about ourselves. 

I think looking at the characters in a that way requires us to find our own answers to the questions left behind in the telling of the tale of Brokeback Mountain (in both the short story and the movie).  It also helps us to look at look at the details of our lives and those of others more closely.  We see the questions (we should be asking) more clearly than before, perhaps.


Me, personally, I find myself trusting emotion less, my intuition more (about who is "right" for me).  I trust less what I want, no matter how attractive it seems, no matter how high my emotions fly (especially when my gut tells me something is not "right").  I trust more what I "know" (through my intuitive sense of what I "know.") 

I'm trying to avoid being caught, as Ennis was in his dreams of Jack at the end of the short story, between what I "know" and what I "wish to believe" (what I hope for: against all experience to the contrary). 

It is striking how Ennis avoids the big decisions in his life. 

Annie Proulx in the short story describes Ennis as making an instant decision to have sex with Jack the first night they have sex (in the cook camp tent on Brokeback Mt.)  She says he is somebody who throws himself wholeheartedly into whatever he makes up his mind to do. 

But does he ever decide between Alma and Jack?  Does he ever decide what he would like his and Jack's life to be (even after he gets divorced from Alma)?  He might even be thinking about marrying Cassie, the waitress, when he asks Jack how Jack & Lureen are getting along.  Perhaps he thinks Jack can tell him how to have a "successful" marriage - when Jack sees himself as simply marking time while he waits for the opportunity that he hopes Ennis might give them to share their lives together, unless Jack has already given up on Ennis ever being willing to agree to his wish for them to live together by this time.

Ennis tries to "have it all."  He'd like to keep his marriage to Alma.  He'd like to keep his family life with Alma and their daughters, Alma, Jr. and Jenny intact.  He doesn't want to make a choice between them and Jack.

Ennis also wants to keep Jack in his life, whom he has "wrung it out a hunert times" thinking of him in the years since they came down from Brokeback Mt., when Ennis married Alma, Jack married Lureen, and both of them had children from their marriages, before Jack came to see him in 1967 at the bottom of the steps leading up to the landing of Ennis's & Alma's apartment over the laundromat in Riverton, WY.  Afterwards, Ennis is willing to go on frequent "fishing" trips (forgoing vacations with Alma and their daughters as Alma later complains in their Thanksgiving kitchen argument), at least until later years when he sees Jack less frequently, only a couple of times of year in a cold wilderness, at a cold time of the year.

(Jack wants to go someplace "warm."  Perhaps he doubts whether Ennis is any longer is a "warm" presence in his life.  With Jack suggesting "Mexico" as such a place, Ennis responds he knows what "boys like you, Jack, do in Mexico!") 

But instead of having it all, Ennis fails to make a choice between the different roads his life might lead down.  As a result, Ennis loses just about everything: Alma, family, and Jack.  He had to let Alma or Jack go, so they could decide what to do next, without being tied to Ennis any longer. 

Alma, who knew Ennis better than anyone else - not idealizing him but clearly aware of his shortcomings and even his deviousness - saw that she had to cut ties with more cleanly by suggesting that Ennis find someone (a woman), saying she and the girls (their daughters) thought it would be good for him to do so.  Of course, once Ennis replies, "Once burned...," Alma brings up Jack, asking Ennis whether he stills sees him. 

Ennis can't away with anything with Alma.  She sees through him.  Perhaps that has a lot to do with his wish to stay with her.  It is Alma who decides to divorce Ennis, after a long time of their "growing apart," as Annie Proulx describes them in the short story.  You can see how well Alma understands how Ennis thinks in the opposing strategies they employ over whether Ennis should buy Alma a pack of cigarettes.  Ennis is going out for the night with Jack, when Jack first comes to Riverton, WY.  Alma wants Ennis to buy her a pack of cigarette, knowing he'll have to cut short his night out with Jack and come home.  Ennis counters Alma's ploy with a successful one of his own: saying he had a pack of cigarettes in the pocket of his shirt hanging over a chair.  It would be difficult to believe that Alma didn't know what he was up to.

- jetzenpolis

[manhattangirl]

I have so much trouble trying to express exactly what I want to say.  I see both Jack and Ennis, though their love was a force of nature, they somehow went against it, by living lives contrary to that so paid a price for denying destiny, what should be.

Ennis clung on to a facade that he and Alma knew not to be true, and in the end both was left bitter, Ennis alone dedicating himself to a shrine of a dead lover he refused in life.  Alma married to a man not out of love, she didn't love Monroe, but he did offer to regain her identity as wife and mother.   

Jack like a ship waiting to come to port, was at sea waiting for his lover.  lived a life that cause him to travel, on the road whether for business, or seeing Ennis, that road was his life, and waited for Ennis, and that sweet life, where he could finally settle down, stay put.   

The "thing" was who they were, and what Ennis feared, and Jack clung to which made for an untenable situation. To deny the one's true nature, to put off the love of someone else because of fear is only asking for trouble, and both men had it ten folds, they were given a great gift, but didn't trust themselve enough to grab hold of it.

Does this make sense to you.         

[aintfoolin]

 Great posts jetzenpolis and MG,

In 1967. this "thing" that Ennis spoke of had a name ,though Ennis just could'nt even  speak  it. An attraction, a feeling of growing need and love for Jack. He also realized in the reunion scenes that this "thing" was real and uncontrollable when Jack came back. had became a part of him though I feel he sometimes resented it's control. Spoke of it as if was some intruding entity in their *friendship*, that went against what he felt himself to be.  He feared it yes, but he also craved it. Why? What was it about the "thing" that provided him with such completion? At one point Ennis Ennis appears to accept his feelings stating "aint no reins on this one" . This one? as opposed to that one with Alma, where he is stuck between obligations and loyaties to his wife and kids, and his acceptance of unspeakable cravings for Jack's presence in his life. I feel that it is the relationship with Jack that allowed him the true freedom he sought from somewhere within. It's true indeed, that he felt the pressure from both ends, but I think he knew he found more of his real identity with Jack..

With Alma, his role was clear, father, husband, breadwinner, the "normal life "of a man of his times, but with Jack it's not so clear, his "role" not so clear and his assurredness incomplete and  unformed, undefined. Yet he knew he  needed this "thing" like flowers need rain. I think Ennis was in deep denial, playing a game with himself, telling himself *what I don't know or admit completly to myself, won't hurt me", but left himself and Jack vulnerable to  a confusing  half-life. Yes he was in denial, but he was doing the deeds physically, emotionally, and sexually that pointed him in a different direction than  where his conflicted denials told him to go. His actions spoke a lot louder than his words. Jack never forced Ennis to do anything, he did what he did because he wanted  and needed to. What message was he sending Jack? A mixed one.

 I am struck by jetzenpolis's last paragraph, speaking of the "opposing strategies" over the  pack of cigs. I feel that certainly Alma knew Ennis, but only up to a certain extent. What she could see clearly, she had no qualms about. To her Ennis's role was clearly defined, husband and father of her children.  But from the very beginning of her knowledge of Jack's existence, Ennis was one step ahead of her. Think about the picture Ennis has painted of Jack for Alma. A rodeo bullrider, ("He rodeos mostly" then quickly leaves the kitchen to avoid further detailed explaination) who did'nt like resturants (" he's not the resturant type") and just wanted to go out and "get drunk", *man stuff* all in an effort to distance Jack from Alma. He had no intentions of sharing a lovely dinner  and pleasent conversation at the Knife and Fork with both Alma and Jack sitting there. A nightmare scenario for him. He niether wanted  nor needed  this drama, so he paints a negative picture of Jack for Alma's benefit, but really for his, he somehow had to ditch her. She saw what she saw at the bottom of the stairs yes, and tried to use a "cigarette run" in order to force Ennis back home, but again, Ennis is a step ahead . He already has a pack stashed in "the front  pocket of my blue shirt in the bedroom". Telling detail, he knows where they are ,down to the color of the shirt  and which pocket they're in.  Ennis wins that little *strategic battle *hands down.  Then, there's the excuse he gives her why they may not return till morning. "we get to drinkin and talkin and all," giving no thought to Alma's certain logical question (* what bar in little tiny Riverton Wy stays open all night?*) None, but obviously motels do. Alma was a innocent country girl , but she was'nt that dumb, but Ennis oneupped her.

btw, I never saw Alma smoking in the film,, even as she sat haggared at the table with coffee the following morning. What gives? MO, Thanx.

[Matt Nasty]

jacks favorite memory in the film just makes the scene 100 times more heart renching for me, its such an amzing scene the way ennis hums to him and sways him and then the ive got to go i'll see you in the morning i just didnt want jack to snap out of the memory and when he did to see ennis driving away i was devestated the reason i mentioned the see you in the morning line was as too me this just makes jacks death stand out in the momory he rode away knowing he would see him in the morning, but after ennis drove away after the argument he would never see jack again well not in this life but im pretty sure they will have met up in a better place were they could relive those beautiful memories of brokeback without being fearful or worried.

[manhattangirl]

I've always wondered whether Ennis didn't want a "scene", or didn't want to share, when Jack came to town.  Jack was part of his life she wasn't welcome to.  But it was the "thing", that uncontrolled need for Jack, which scared him, and in turn lived a life thinking it was keeping it in control.  Husband, father, all the right moves.  

[aintfoolin]

 Yes, beautifully stated zankow, the Dozy embrace. jack's fav memory of Ennis. A "sexless hunger" content only to know that he was Ennis's and Ennis was his. That was enough. Let be, Let be. Jack felt assured that his man having to leave to attend to the sheep, was returning to him  soon in the morning. A moment of pure love expressed by both, that need'nt be questioned  or doubted. It just was, and that was enough.


MG,
 I doubt seriously if Ennis wanted the drama of a shouting match between he and Alma, Alma and Jack, or any other scenario that would bring attention to what wsas going on between the three of them. I think your right, his thing with Jack was theirs and theirs alone. I also feel that Ennis had the ability to seperate the two relationships in his mind. That's the way he wanted it imo. Simillar to a married guy, cheating on his wife with a secret mistress. Only this one had a twist( no pun intended) That way, he never had to justify anything to anybody. He took the easy way out. He should have known that this "best of both worlds" scenario would eventually play out. Someone was gonna eventually crack and rock his boat. Alma makes the choice for him by divorcing him. So be it. He came to live with that, but his need for Jack was gonna win out in the end imo.

Even when he was sure she knew after Thanksgiving,, that did'nt stop him from seeing Jack.

[jetzenpolis]

After their divorce, Ennis, Alma, her second husband Monroe (the grocer), Alma, Jr., and Jenny are sharing Thanksgiving together in Riverton, WY.  As I thought about it more, I don't think Alma was ready to "move on" from Ennis when they started talking in the kitchen (when Alma said that she and the "girls" thought Ennis should find "someone.")

I think Ennis & Alma were still involved with each other: they were still engaged in the same contest of wits with each other.  Alma wanted to appear as if she had "moved on" from Ennis in her life after the divorce (either to appear that way to Ennis, herself, or even Monroe, or all three, perhaps - but certainly to Ennis).  She wanted Ennis to know she was over him.  She was urging him to see other women.

In the movie, when the Thanksgiving scene opens inside Alma's & Monroe's house, Alma is pouting in a terribly embittered way.  Part of her annoyance may be with Monroe, who's playing with a noisy 1970s-style electronic carving knife, cutting the Thanksgiving turkey.  Whatever part of her irritation is directed to Monroe, it goes a lot farther than the minor (almost comical) nuisance Monroe may be making of himself. 

Perhaps she is dissatisfied with Monroe as a husband.  Perhaps she was too "practical" in her decision to marry Monroe.  (Judging by the appearance of their home, he could provide a comfortable income for himself, Alma, and Alma's two daughters whom she had custody of from her divorce from Ennis.  During their marriage, Alma offered suggestions for jobs Ennis could take to bring in more money than a ranch hand makes.  But she never pressed him too hard on it.  Instead, she was "practical" about it and got a job, herself.) 

Perhaps she has, over time, come to realize, too late, that she doesn't love Monroe the way she loved Ennis (and believes that Ennis loved her).

Alma is also very bitterly annoyed with Ennis, probably more so, telling their daughters he didn't have much of a rodeo career.  It amounted to only about 3 seconds of a bull ride, when his daughters ask him to tell him about his being in the rodeo.  Her resentment seems to grow even more ferocious as he continues with his story. 

Again, Alma sees through Ennis, of course, whatever he's doing.  She sees him as presenting himself as a humble man to his daughters: a man who did not do well in the rodeo.  Alma doesn't buy it.  That's not what Ennis is up to, underneath surface appearances.

Given her knowledge of Ennis, Alma is probably right.  Although I'm not sure what she sees Ennis as being up to, in this case.  Perhaps she's asking herself why Ennis is here, with her and the girls, on Thanksgiving.  Perhaps she knows that Ennis still wants to keep his family together, as much as possible, after the divorce.  Annie Proulx, in her short story, says that Ennis does not want to be the "sad daddy."  He tries to make the divorce "work," as best he knows how.  (It is all that is left him of Alma and their girls, after the divorce.)

In the kitchen, all of Ennis's surface appearances begin to become unglued when he says the fateful words, "Once burned...," in reply to Alma's urging him to start seeing other women.  Ennis would like to appear as if he was a humble man making a joke about his failed marriage.  Of course, by saying, "Once burned..." there is the somewhat subtle suggestion underneath that the divorce was Alma's fault. 

Perhaps part of it was.  Alma might have been carrying on an affair with Monroe before she divorced Ennis.  He feels "vaguely cheated" by the divorce.  (Perhaps that's why Ennis was so upset when Alma took off for work at the grocery story from their apartment over the laundromat, when they were still married, although she left dinner on the stove ready for them to eat.  However, Ennis stops in the middle of his angry outburst at Alma's leaving them behind, to ask his daughters, in a very benign, helpful way - as if nothing has happened - if they want a push on their swing.  When Alma, Jr. answers, "No Daddy," Ennis goes back to displaying his angry frustration with Alma's defiance of his demand that she stay, kicking the side of the white building behind the swings his daughters are on.  Perhaps Ennis & Alma have fought so much in their marriage that they've all become accustomed to it as part of "normal" family life.)

Of course, Ennis was carrying on his extramarital affair with Jack long before that.  Their divorce was certainly not all Alma's fault: even if Ennis tries to put the blame on her - however tentatively - by saying, "Once burned..." in the kitchen doing the dishes.

But Alma may be thinking of something else, here.  When Ennis says, "Once burned...," Alma may be hearing Ennis say, "It didn't work out when I tried it with a woman."  It's at that point that she asks if Ennis still sees Jack Twist.

The Thanksgiving kitchen argument begins.  Alma says she knew Ennis never caught any fish on his many "fishing" trips with Jack because he never opened his brand new fishing tackle box to take out the note she left him (to bring home some fish to her and the girls).  "Jack Twist?...Jack Nasty!" 

Before she can put what she's thinking into words (that Ennis & Jack are having sex), Ennis grabs her by the arm, twists it hard to stop her from saying what they both know she's thinking (and they both know is true).  Then Ennis flees the house (after Alma says she'll call Monroe for help and Ennis says he'll knock both of them to the floor).

A distraught Ennis ends up that night throwing a punch through the window of a pickup truck on the street at the driver who yells at him.  The driver gets out of the truck, knocks Ennis down onto the street, and kicks him where he lies.  But Ennis's moans of pain seem as much emotional as physical.  Ennis knows that his ties to Alma have been severed by the events of that night.

Whatever Ennis felt for Jack, he also felt for something for Alma, too.

[Matt Nasty]

Whatever Ennis felt for Jack, he also felt for something for Alma, too.

yup I 100% agree with you here, ennis still loved alma aswell as jack even if it was in a different way.

[lamusica]

I really think Ennis loved Alma -- maybe for years.  He was tied to her, promised to marry her.  Of course, this was before he met Jack.  Still, he felt his future was tied in with Alma.  I really don't think he hesitated to marry her at all.  He was committed, so he went through with it.  I believe he did love her in some way.  Had he not met Jack, he would probably been content with Alma for a lifetime.  But that 's not how the story goes.  He does meet Jack and he does fall in love with Jack, even though he doesn't realize it right away.  So, everything changes.  From then on, Alma is second to Ennis -- not his one and only love, as she should have been.

I think Ennis is a very deep person with many layers, one over the other.  He is the youngest son of parents who probably loved him, then the hanger-on little brother, then the orphan out on his own, then the young man who fell in love with Alma and went to work to make a few bucks for their future, and then he met JACK!  From that moment on, that is how he defined himself.  He ran his daily life around the times he could be with Jack.  Everything else was second.  This becomes very clear when he and Jack have their fight in the last scene with Jack.  Ennis has made his life in response to Jack's dictates.  so, when he gets the card that Jack is dead, he dies, too.  Just mho.

[jetzenpolis]

yup I 100% agree with you here, ennis still loved alma aswell as jack even if it was in a different way.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say zankou1991!

- jetzenpolis

[manhattangirl]

I guess I'm of a different belief,  I don't know if I would call what Ennis felt for Alma was love.  He cared for her, he liked her, she suited him.  Ennis married her, that's what you're suppose to do.  His brother and sister did it.  He was nineteen, on his own, "there was no room for him" anywhere.

When he met Jack, he fell in love, not knowing what this feeling for this man was until a year after they split up from the mountain, he knew than he shouldn't have let him go. 

My personal opinion, I don't think he was fearing a scene when Jack came back, I think Ennis was planning to keep Jack all to himself, just like on the mountain, Alma was beginning to be shut out. She was part of his life that he was stuck with, and nothing much to he could do about it.   

I know it's popular here to think that Ennis loved Alma, in some way.  As if it had to make sense for him to even marry her.  But Ennis had a philosophy "I'll stick to beans", and Ennis stuck with what was expected of him. 

 

[tpe]

I do agree that there is something deeply Buddhist about BBM.  jetzenpolis is right in noting two things that touch on this: desire and stillness.


The "Great Mirror of Desire" is certainly intrinsic in Buddhist thought: that the desires of this world are all illusion, and one must free oneself of it -- typically during times of great pain and catastrophe.  Throughout history,  Buddhists have renounced the world in times of great personal loss (the death of a loved one, disgrace from public office, etc.)   This is not coincidental, because central to this is the idea that it is during these times of intense pain that one lifts the veil of illusion and see the world as it is.  This is why life is often referred to in Buddhist thought as a "Floating Bridge of Dreams" -- something transient and insubstantial, that seemingly brings us from one state of the soul to another.  It is no coincidence that dreams figure prominently in the beginning and end of the story.

As for stillness, it is associated with the blocking out of all thoughts and desires.  It is an important element in Buddhist meditation, espeically in Chan/Zen circles.  The fact that Ang Lee insists on it when Heath plays the role of Ennis is not at all surprising.  It becomes the way in which the actor channels the raw emotions and desires of a character he or she wishes to protray, as in the greatest exponents of Japanese Noh Drama, for instance...

[myprivatejack]

Very proper the similarity of Alma with the beans in Ennis mind...Seriously,I really think he had loved her in any way with a strange and complicated-as everything was in Ennis way of seeing and living life...-mix of need,social rules accomplishment,commodity and a love that couldn't compare with the one he felt for Jack.Perhaps in the beginning she felt for her because HE NEEDED TO,it's to say; he needed someone who cared for him,who loved him,since he had arrived to be nineteen with a life full with loses and lack of real love,what had turned him into a kind of uprooted boy.Of course,he had never gone against what was expected of him-his social and religious environment didn't allow him to-,so the next step was,obviously,marry and have children,that's all...
Yes,if he hadn't ever met Jack his life would have been as full as it could be,as it's EXPECTED TO BE,one more time.It's difficult to declare if he had known another man sooner or later because homosexual tendencies were on him,or if the root of his love for Jack is in this same loneliness sense and need for caring and affection.I have always thought that Jack arrived in the right moment to-almost-"oblige" Ennis to fall in love with him; but also that the quality of forbidden and punished that homosexuality have in his childhood world made him somehow to be attracted to this so dangerous tendency.Anyhow,it's another story...
The real story is that he realised that he couldn't make a woman happy-be this Alma or Cassie-much before the divorce because his love for her wasn't so well builded as the one for Jack,clearly.I think the most attached he was to Jack,the less he was to his wife;from the very moment his lover arrived,their marriage was beginning to break,because the building was breaking.But I'm sure Alma still loved him much after this divorce,being the scene of Thanksgiving day a kind of revenge for her because she felt bitter;both for having lost him and because his marriage to Monroe was a kind of economical and social security for her and the girls,nothing else.She was looking for the right moment to make Ennis paid for her unsatisfaction insulting her "rival" because she knew that was going to hurt him.And Ennis fell on the trick because somehow he was expecting it from long time before.
I don't know if this makes sense; sometimes it's difficult to me to explain properly...

[lamusica]

I guess I'm of a different belief,  I don't know if I would call what Ennis felt for Alma was love.  He cared for her, he liked her, she suited him.  Ennis married her, that's what you're suppose to do.  His brother and sister did it.  He was nineteen, on his own, "there was no room for him" anywhere.

When he met Jack, he fell in love, not knowing what this feeling for this man was until a year after they split up from the mountain, he knew than he shouldn't have let him go. 

My personal opinion, I don't think he was fearing a scene when Jack came back, I think Ennis was planning to keep Jack all to himself, just like on the mountain, Alma was beginning to be shut out. She was part of his life that he was stuck with, and nothing much to he could do about it.   

I know it's popular here to think that Ennis loved Alma, in some way.  As if it had to make sense for him to even marry her.  But Ennis had a philosophy "I'll stick to beans", and Ennis stuck with what was expected of him. 

 

[lamusica]

I guess I'm of a different belief,  I don't know if I would call what Ennis felt for Alma was love.  He cared for her, he liked her, she suited him.  Ennis married her, that's what you're suppose to do.  His brother and sister did it.  He was nineteen, on his own, "there was no room for him" anywhere.

When he met Jack, he fell in love, not knowing what this feeling for this man was until a year after they split up from the mountain, he knew than he shouldn't have let him go. 

My personal opinion, I don't think he was fearing a scene when Jack came back, I think Ennis was planning to keep Jack all to himself, just like on the mountain, Alma was beginning to be shut out. She was part of his life that he was stuck with, and nothing much to he could do about it.   

I know it's popular here to think that Ennis loved Alma, in some way.  As if it had to make sense for him to even marry her.  But Ennis had a philosophy "I'll stick to beans", and Ennis stuck with what was expected of him. 

 

I think people's idea of what love is changes as they go through life.  What they feel for their first love may be totally different from what they feel for a lover ten years later.  I think Ennis loved Alma with the love of a 19 year old boy.  This may have been his very first contact with someone he thought he loved.  And maybe he did love her to the extent that he was able to love someone else at that age.  When Jack came along, he still didn't realize he loved him for another year.  So, within that year he grew.  He married and lived with Alma, and, in his own words, thought about Jack a lot.  So, when he realized he loved Jack, he had a different view of what love is.  It wasn't the same thing he felt for Alma.  But, still, I think he loved her as much as he could at the time and in the circumstances within which he found himself.  just me two cents.

[tpe]

I think people's idea of what love is changes as they go through life.  What they feel for their first love may be totally different from what they feel for a lover ten years later.  I think Ennis loved Alma with the love of a 19 year old boy.  This may have been his very first contact with someone he thought he loved.  And maybe he did love her to the extent that he was able to love someone else at that age.  When Jack came along, he still didn't realize he loved him for another year.  So, within that year he grew.  He married and lived with Alma, and, in his own words, thought about Jack a lot.  So, when he realized he loved Jack, he had a different view of what love is.  It wasn't the same thing he felt for Alma.  But, still, I think he loved her as much as he could at the time and in the circumstances within which he found himself.  just me two cents.

Again, this is a very Buddhist notion: that all things change and are transiet in their current state.

But also central to the Buddhist tenet is that all passion and desire -- even LOVE -- dies eventually.    In this way of thinking, one must free oneself of all love, because it is an illusion. 

I try to think if there is any echo of this in BBM.  I would like to think that their love endures, but I wonder sometimes if there is a Buddhist moral embedded in Ennis's sad and lonely end.  Perhaps there is, although it makes me uncomfortable.

[manhattangirl]

Again, this is a very Buddhist notion: that all things change and are transiet in their current state.

But also central to the Buddhist tenet is that all passion and desire -- even LOVE -- dies eventually.    In this way of thinking, one must free oneself of all love, because it is an illusion. 

I try to think if there is any echo of this in BBM.  I would like to think that their love endures, but I wonder sometimes if there is a Buddhist moral embedded in Ennis's sad and lonely end.  Perhaps there is, although it makes me uncomfortable.

It makes sense if  I understand you correctly, look at it in that context, how else could he survive, how long must he suffer and mourn.   In some Eugene O'Neill  kind of way seal himself up in that trailer and do his penance, or does he release the pain, and live on. 

tpe, am on the right track or way off?   

[jetzenpolis]

Again, this is a very Buddhist notion: that all things change and are transient in their current state.

But also central to the Buddhist tenet is that all passion and desire -- even LOVE -- dies eventually.    In this way of thinking, one must free oneself of all love, because it is an illusion. 

I try to think if there is any echo of this in BBM.  I would like to think that their love endures, but I wonder sometimes if there is a Buddhist moral embedded in Ennis's sad and lonely end.  Perhaps there is, although it makes me uncomfortable.

Isn't it the desire (craving) for "love" that must be stopped, not necessarily the feelings of love, themselves, tpe (as temporary as they may or may not be)?  If Ennis is to free himself from his mourning for Jack, as mattangirl says, he must release himself from his pain. 

Buddhism would say Ennis must find a way to ease away from his desire for Jack (or any of the other desires that bring him suffering).

If Buddhism is right - that a craving form of desire is the source of all suffering - then the source of all the pain Ennis, Jack, and the other characters in Brokeback Mountain feel finds its ultimate source in their desires.

Love might be transient but Buddhists certainly don't think we should stop loving each other.  "Loving kindness" and "compassion" are frequently mentioned by the Dalai Lama, the head of Tibetan Buddhism, for example. 

[lamusica]

Love might be transient but Buddhists certainly don't think we should stop loving each other.  "Loving kindness" and "compassion" are frequently mentioned by the Dalai Lama, the head of Tibetan Buddhism, for example. 

I think both Ennis and Jack can be considered kind and compassionate if you look at the evidence presented in the film:  Jack is never viewed as being less than kind to anyone.  He kindly tries to assuage Ennis's pain after he is thrown from his horse; he is kind to Lureen when he retrieves her hat and dusts it off for her and when he defends all her hard work at Thanksgiving dinner; he is kind to Bobby as shown through his concern for his education and his playing with him teaching him to drive the big combine; he is even kind to Lureen's daddy up to a point when he has to defend his place in the family.  Ennis, too, is always kind.  Even in the midst of a fight with Alma, he stops and asks the girls if he can give them a push on the swings; he is kind to Alma when he wipes the snow off her face, and when he jumps right in and helps with the crying, sniveling, croupy babies when he has just come home from a hard day's work.  Both men show kindness very naturally -- it is part of their essence.
         As far as compassion goes, who could be more compassionate than Ennis when he gets the post card marked deceased? or when he spoke with Lureen and expressed his sorrow over Jack's death?  Or when he did the same to Mrs. Twist and the old man when he visited them.  Jack, showed compassion for Ennis when he consoled him at the beginning of the SNIT and again in the motel scene, and probably many times more when they met over the years.  In this way, I find both men to be living examples of Buddhist principles.
         Now, when desire comes into the picture, they both do their share of suffering.  They are constantly running into obstacles which turn into major problems for them both. (NB: The fan fic writers ignore this suffering by creating scenarios in which both men desire and win.  I am not criticizing them, but recognize that they are changing the Buddhist karma of both men when they create the proverbial happy ending.)  It is the problems they run into that intrigue us and make the story what it is --sad, but not maudlin-- realistic, but not without consequences.

[Matt Nasty]

I think both Ennis and Jack can be considered kind and compassionate if you look at the evidence presented in the film:  Jack is never viewed as being less than kind to anyone.  He kindly tries to assuage Ennis's pain after he is thrown from his horse; he is kind to Lureen when he retrieves her hat and dusts it off for her and when he defends all her hard work at Thanksgiving dinner; he is kind to Bobby as shown through his concern for his education and his playing with him teaching him to drive the big combine; he is even kind to Lureen's daddy up to a point when he has to defend his place in the family.  Ennis, too, is always kind.  Even in the midst of a fight with Alma, he stops and asks the girls if he can give them a push on the swings; he is kind to Alma when he wipes the snow off her face, and when he jumps right in and helps with the crying, sniveling, croupy babies when he has just come home from a hard day's work.  Both men show kindness very naturally -- it is part of their essence.
         As far as compassion goes, who could be more compassionate than Ennis when he gets the post card marked deceased? or when he spoke with Lureen and expressed his sorrow over Jack's death?  Or when he did the same to Mrs. Twist and the old man when he visited them.  Jack, showed compassion for Ennis when he consoled him at the beginning of the SNIT and again in the motel scene, and probably many times more when they met over the years.  In this way, I find both men to be living examples of Buddhist principles.
         Now, when desire comes into the picture, they both do their share of suffering.  They are constantly running into obstacles which turn into major problems for them both. (NB: The fan fic writers ignore this suffering by creating scenarios in which both men desire and win.  I am not criticizing them, but recognize that they are changing the Buddhist karma of both men when they create the proverbial happy ending.)  It is the problems they run into that intrigue us and make the story what it is --sad, but not maudlin-- realistic, but not without consequences.

to true lamusica, i would like to expand and reinforce some of your points but you explained them perfectly on you own

[manhattangirl]

I kind of think that the final scene in the movie is perfect example.   To avoid Alma, Jr. suffering in the final scene of the film, Ennis had to release his own suffering.   She wanted him at her wedding, he was going to the roundup, but he see the disappointment in  her  face, and he shows compassion and tells her he'll be there.

To do this he had release himself from his own pain, and not bring pain to someone else.   

[myprivatejack]

I kind of think that the final scene in the movie is perfect example.   To avoid Alma, Jr. suffering in the final scene of the film, Ennis had to release his own suffering.   She wanted him at her wedding, he was going to the roundup, but he see the disappointment in  her  face, and he shows compassion and tells her he'll be there.

To do this he had release himself from his own pain, and not bring pain to someone else.   

I think Ennis learned to put his loved beings comfort before his own needs;no matter he was breaking inside,he decided not to bring pain and dissapointment to his daughter,in this case.Not to put even his duties-material duties-before his other duties-emotional duties-as so many times he did with Jack,as an easy excuse several times for not committing too much.Perhaps as a kind of penitence?.