Thank you so much for your post AF.
One more time I agree. I know what you mean about them trying to protect each other from hurt. And, like I said before, I especially understand Jack’s reasons to not talk about it.
But after reading the SS again yesterday and realizing the differences between it and the script, I think that maybe they had not any problems talking about women, yes, only women.
I said this when I was commenting on Tony’s post before: Ennis saw himself as a straight man, so for him it was normal talking about Cassie or another woman. And he thought that Jack also knew that he, Ennis, was straight, so if Jack asked him about women or a new marriage Ennis could see it as a normal thing too. And well, Jack said once, long time ago, that he was not queer, so, though Ennis later used that “boys like you”, maybe he was trying to believe that Jack was straight too, so if he was having a rough time with Lureen, Ennis could see as a normal thing that Jack was having an affair with another woman. Insist, only and always women. I think some brokies discussed this in another thread too. Ennis and Jack seemed to not have problems talking about women, but talking about men was a very different thing. Having an affair with a man meant that they were queer and what is worse, that was betrayal, that was cheating, and breaking that special bound they had. Ennis could try to fool himself thinking that they could be with women because they were straight and what they had was only a one shot thing, a lifetime thing only between the two of them; but also the truth is that they could be with women, and talk about that without having issues, because they needed women and even marriage as a cover, in order to survive in that narrow minded society.
In fact Ennis lost it when he learned about Mexico, but finding out about the foreman’s wife didn’t seem to bother him much. Of course they suffered hearing about Cassie and that foreman’s wife, but maybe Ennis thought that it was “normal” and necessary, and it was not betrayal, because they were women not men. I think, and this is only my opinion, that Ennis maybe didn’t feel threatened if Jack was with another woman. But if Jack was with another man, that really was a problem. Ennis thought he was the only man for Jack, like Jack was the only man for him. That’s why learning about Mexico cut him that deep.
On the other side we have Jack. After the reunion in 1967 he really thought that the huge problem Ennis and Jack had was Alma and Ennis family. That’s why he flew to Riverton in 1975 when Ennis got divorced. He thought that now they could live together, because Ennis had not the old responsibilities. But he found out that the real problem was Ennis, his fears, his paranoia. He realized that women were not the problem; it was Ennis inability to overcome his fears and his own homophobia. And after one more try, in a later fishing trip when Jack suggested Ennis to move to Texas, Jack finally realized that Ennis was not gonna live with him, not then, not ever. In their last fishing trip I think Jack gave up on his dreams, not on Ennis and certainly not on their relationship, but he knew for sure that living with Ennis was not an real option. So it didn’t matter if Ennis was with Cassie or not….With women or alone, Ennis was not ready for a shared life with a….man. Of course knowing about Cassie must hurt Jack, because he loved Ennis (you only have to see his expression in that moment…He’s bleeding inside), but, I think that, like Ennis, he felt safer knowing that it was still a woman, Cassie. But if Ennis liked another man, well, that would have killed Jack.
Still, we are wondering here, in this thread, why Jack asked Ennis if he didn’t find anyone to marry. I said that maybe he asked out of concern, because Ennis was alone, or out of jealousy, because he wanted Ennis for himself, he wanted a life with him, or just because he needed to know how Ennis saw their relationship, what he was planning to do with his life, because what Ennis did with his life affected Jack’s life too.
We know that Ennis asked Jack twice about Lureen, and Jack had not problem to say that they could do it over the phone, I mean, he replied Ennis by talking about sex with Lureen. So maybe it was normal for them ask and talk about their marriages and about women. When they met after those four years of separation they both had wives. So they both knew that the other one was living and sleeping with somebody else. So after several years, it couldn’t be so difficult to ask about those women, because Ennis and Jack already know that they shared their beds with other people. And in that era, in that part of USA, and having in mind that Ennis wanted to see them both as straight men, well, maybe it was normal for two friends to talk about their women. What it was really weird and inconceivable was talking about their feelings, Ennis and Jack feelings toward each other, because men don’t love men, right? That’s impossible….
So maybe talking about women was normal and right, talking about men was forbidden, talking about their feelings for each other a crime; and those are the things they kept unsaid for years, like AP said.
I don’t know what I was trying to say with this…..Sorry, I get so lost when I think in Spanish and write in English.
But I agree with your post, AF, and I like how you think. I think I’m just thinking out loud and rambling here, that’s all.
Tony, I’m very very very interested in reading what you think about all of this. Your ideas are always amazing!!! And I like the way you’re approaching this. Thank you!!
And about this forum, I so agree with you and I’ll be never tired of saying either. We find answers, always, but we respect each other and above all we love Ennis and Jack.
I wish more brokies were here to express their opinions. I bet they’d kick my ass for being this stubborn about my questions.
Loreen, AF and you already opened my eyes a lot. You know what? I’m dying to read what Thomas has to say when he comes back on Monday.
