Topic: When did they start to fall in love?

[fairy]

Probably some of the greatest lines Annie Proulx has ever written were about the drowsy embrace. By now Jack has fallen in love as has Ennis, but neither one of them are ready to accept that which they were raised to reject and hate. Jack is more suseptible to understanding what it was all about than Ennis, but for both of them, lonely, isolated, ignorant young men, it went beyond sex, it was a connection of soul and spirit. IMHO that is the power of the episode, both in the movie and the SS. It is the glue which hold the whole thing together. How many of us have wanted more than just sex and never found it?

I agree with you...

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Probably some of the greatest lines Annie Proulx has ever written were about the drowsy embrace. By now Jack has fallen in love as has Ennis, but neither one of them are ready to accept that which they were raised to reject and hate. Jack is more suseptible to understanding what it was all about than Ennis, but for both of them, lonely, isolated, ignorant young men, it went beyond sex, it was a connection of soul and spirit. IMHO that is the power of the episode, both in the movie and the SS. It is the glue which hold the whole thing together. How many of us have wanted more than just sex and never found it?

Well said BBBOY!

I can't say for sure that I never found it, but I do miss that deep connection with someone.  I think that's why the dozy embrace scene hits me so hard.  I believe I understand what the two were feeling in this scene.

[welshwitch]

Maybe falling in love, like happiness, isn't something you can identify during the moment but know later - "That's when I was happy/fell in love."

[tpe]

Probably some of the greatest lines Annie Proulx has ever written were about the drowsy embrace. By now Jack has fallen in love as has Ennis, but neither one of them are ready to accept that which they were raised to reject and hate. Jack is more suseptible to understanding what it was all about than Ennis, but for both of them, lonely, isolated, ignorant young men, it went beyond sex, it was a connection of soul and spirit. IMHO that is the power of the episode, both in the movie and the SS. It is the glue which hold the whole thing together. How many of us have wanted more than just sex and never found it?

Well said. BBBOY.  This is how I viewed the comment of the embrace being sexless -- it expressed an emotion that went beyond sensual gratification.  Is this not love?

[tpe]

Maybe falling in love, like happiness, isn't something you can identify during the moment but know later - "That's when I was happy/fell in love."

Yes, the admission of love is an afterthought.  The avowal of love is after the fact.

[welshwitch]

Jack certainly knows he loves Ennis when he drives away after they ahave parted in Signal; Ennis's reaction as he walks off is something he doesn't understand. I suppose he realises that his emotions are involved by degrees. If i had to differentiate them, i'd say Jack fell in love, possibly very soon after they met, whereas Ennis slid into it, much later.

[tpe]

Jack certainly knows he loves Ennis when he drives away after they ahave parted in Signal; Ennis's reaction as he walks off is something he doesn't understand. I suppose he realises that his emotions are involved by degrees. If i had to differentiate them, i'd say Jack fell in love, possibly very soon after they met, whereas Ennis slid into it, much later.

Or perhaps Ennis was not savvy enough to realize that he was in love until much later...

[zephK]

Or perhaps Ennis was not savvy enough to realize that he was in love until much later...

  Actually Ennis tells Jack at the reunion, I believe, that he finally realized it wasn't a bad meal that had him doubled up by the side of the road (in the alley, film) after they parted, but that it was missing Jack that did it to him.   "That summer," Ennis said, "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate something bad in that place in Dubois.  Took me about a year to figure out it was I shouldn't a let you outta my sights.  Too late then by a long while."
  Of course, I really don't think he knew that his desire for Jack, as strong and as singular as it was, was love until Cassie told him what love was in the terminal.

[tpe]

  Actually Ennis tells Jack at the reunion, I believe, that he finally realized it wasn't a bad meal that had him doubled up by the side of the road (in the alley, film) after they parted, but that it was missing Jack that did it to him.   "That summer," Ennis said, "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate something bad in that place in Dubois.  Took me about a year to figure out it was I shouldn't a let you outta my sights.  Too late then by a long while."
  Of course, I really don't think he knew that his desire for Jack, as strong and as singular as it was, was love until Cassie told him what love was in the terminal.

A moving interpretation of the scene at the terminal.  I am not usre if everyone would agree, but there is something to be said about the full realization of love.

I would then dare venture to suggest that Ennis finally KNEW the moment Alma Jr. answered: "Yes, daddy, he loves me".  The screenplay tells us as much in this very scene.  Ennis look out and comes to the full realization.  Hence: "I swear..."

[welshwitch]

At any rate I think that's the moment he realises the importance of love, and that it's too late for him, because when he had it he didn't realise.

[tpe]

At any rate I think that's the moment he realises the importance of love, and that it's too late for him, because when he had it he didn't realise.

Love lost before it was truly found.

[yncroger]

I believe that Jack fell for Ennis at the very beginning.  But I also believe that Ennis did not realize that love until the scene with his daughter in the trailer near the end.  For Jack the DE simply confirmed that Ennis was in love with Jack, and Jack definitely knew that he was in love with Ennis. :\'(

[chameau]

I believe that Jack fell for Ennis at the very beginning.  But I also believe that Ennis did not realize that love until the scene with his daughter in the trailer near the end.  For Jack the DE simply confirmed that Ennis was in love with Jack, and Jack definitely knew that he was in love with Ennis. :\'(

That's very interesting but I miss something here... what is DE?  Sorry to be the usual ignorant French boy...

[NoReins]

That's very interesting but I miss something here... what is DE?  Sorry to be the usual ignorant French boy...

Dozy Embrace, Cham

[tpe]

I believe that Jack fell for Ennis at the very beginning.  But I also believe that Ennis did not realize that love until the scene with his daughter in the trailer near the end.  For Jack the DE simply confirmed that Ennis was in love with Jack, and Jack definitely knew that he was in love with Ennis. :\'(

This might very well be true.  Perhaps the discovery of the shirts could also be a candidate as to when Ennis truly realized and recognized his love.  BUt there is no boubt that by asking the question to Alma Jr., he was asking the same question to himself.

[JT]

This might very well be true.  Perhaps the discovery of the shirts could also be a candidate as to when Ennis truly realized and recognized his love.  BUt there is no boubt that by asking the question to Alma Jr., he was asking the same question to himself.

Great post, TPE.  I agree.  To me, the DE was when Jack realized that Ennis loved him and the finding of the two shirt was when Ennis realized how much Jack loved him.  This is not to be confused with when each actually falls in love.  Jack fell in love near the beginning.  Perhaps even love at first sight.  For Ennis, it's later on.  Maybe the SNIT or even a year after BBM.  When Alma Jr. answered his question, Ennis got his own answer as well.  That's how I see that part of the trailer scene.

[tpe]

Great post, TPE.  I agree.  To me, the DE was when Jack realized that Ennis loved him and the finding of the two shirt was when Ennis realized how much Jack loved him.  This is not to be confused with when each actually falls in love.  Jack fell in love near the beginning.  Perhaps even love at first sight.  For Ennis, it's later on.  Maybe the SNIT or even a year after BBM.  When Alma Jr. answered his question, Ennis got his own answer as well.   That's how I see that part of the trailer scene.

Yes! This was how I understood it.  You said it better here.

[maggie]

For Jack I think it was when he first laid eyes on Ennis.   

For Ennis I think it is when Ennis opens up and tells Jack his life story and then says "thats the most i've spoken in a year."  I
think he knew Jack was different.  I would go a step further and say that Ennis had never told that story before.   

[tpe]

For Jack I think it was when he first laid eyes on Ennis.   

For Ennis I think it is when Ennis opens up and tells Jack his life story and then says "thats the most i've spoken in a year."  I
think he knew Jack was different.  I would go a step further and say that Ennis had never told that story before.   

I have always thought that there was something special in Jack's first real hard look at Ennis in the opening scene.  Whether or not it was love, it was intense enough to make Ennis burrow deeper into his own shell.

[welshwitch]

If ennis hasn't fallen in love when he starts confiding in JAck, he's certainly come to trust him, and trust is something that comes from liking, affection, a sense of fellow-feeling that can lead to love.

[tpe]

If ennis hasn't fallen in love when he starts confiding in JAck, he's certainly come to trust him, and trust is something that comes from liking, affection, a sense of fellow-feeling that can lead to love.

Yes, I think with Ennis, it had to be trust first.  With such a hard upbringing, perhaps this was the most difficult thing for anyone to get out of Ennis.  And yet, love must have come soon after Jack did succeed in gaining his trust.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

For Jack I think it was when he first laid eyes on Ennis.   

For Ennis I think it is when Ennis opens up and tells Jack his life story and then says "thats the most i've spoken in a year."  I
think he knew Jack was different.  I would go a step further and say that Ennis had never told that story before.   

I always felt Jack and Ennis were just sizing each other up during the first scenes at Aguirre's trailer.  Of course with Jack, I believe his feelings for Ennis started growing early on.  I do believe that Ennis would have never opened up to Jack the trust wasn't there.  When Ennis started telling his story, Jack couldn't have been more happy.  The look Ennis gives Jack when he says "that's the most I've spoke in a year" says a lot to me about Ennis's growing feelings towards Jack.

[tpe]

I always felt Jack and Ennis were just sizing each other up during the first scenes at Aguirre's trailer.  Of course with Jack, I believe his feelings for Ennis started growing early on.  I do believe that Ennis would have never opened up to Jack the trust wasn't there.  When Ennis started telling his story, Jack couldn't have been more happy.  The look Ennis gives Jack when he says "that's the most I've spoke in a year" says a lot to me about Ennis's growing feelings towards Jack.

Yes, for Ennis, trust had to come first before the realization of love.  The fact that Ennis seemed to trust Jack at that point -- enough to confide such details of his personal life -- hinted at his falling in love.

[lightnin flat]

          I think for jack it was when he said thats more words than you spoke in two weeks. 

            Ennis a bit more difficult to say i dont think ennis knew exactly how he felt untill they left the mountain. Then it hit him like a ton of bricks.   

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

          I think for jack it was when he said thats more words than you spoke in two weeks. 

            Ennis a bit more difficult to say i dont think ennis knew exactly how he felt untill they left the mountain. Then it hit him like a ton of bricks.   

Ennis's feelings really did hit him hard when they left the mountain.  I am sure Jack's feelings were quite strong before they left the mountain.

[lightnin flat]

Ennis's feelings really did hit him hard when they left the mountain.  I am sure Jack's feelings were quite strong before they left the mountain.

        Yes jacks feelings were well and truely in place way before they left the mountain . 

            With ennis i think it was a classic case of you dont know what you got till you loose it.
 

[chameau]

With ennis i think it was a classic case of you dont know what you got till you loose it

Interesting! 

[lightnin flat]

Interesting! 

          the realisation that jack was gone never to see him again or so ennis thought.
              Ennis not realising how much jack meant to him till after jack drove away.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

            With ennis i think it was a classic case of you dont know what you got till you loose it.
 

Once Jack was gone, Ennis was faced with acknowledging that what they had was something more than a "thing."
Finding the shirts at Jack's parent's house made it very clear what Jack felt.  Ennis had to finally see their "thing" as love.

Where are my tissues? :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

        Yes jacks feelings were well and truely in place way before they left the mountain . 

            With ennis i think it was a classic case of you dont know what you got till you loose it.
 

Yes.  Very well said!