Author Topic: The reunion Embrace (Read 264521 times)

tpe · « **Reply #450 on:** Jul 14, 2006, 01:40 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jul 14, 2006, 01:19 PM

Maybe you guys should start a thred about at what point did Ennis or Jack KNOW they were in love? Has This Been done already?

If I recall, this had been discussed in an old thread, but am not sure which one (sigh). For example, I remember a discussion on the said thread on what could have been th earliest indication in the movie that they started to fall in love...

aintfoolin · « **Reply #451 on:** Jul 14, 2006, 02:37 PM »

Must have missed it . Will have to do more research. I'm betting it's SNIT. Jack''s eyes say " I accept you". When they reunite Ennis's eyes say I accept YOU AND ME. I thoght Jack was gonna do em right ther in the parking lot!

gimmejack · « **Reply #452 on:** Jul 15, 2006, 01:48 AM »

Right, they forgot where they were. Good thing Ennis finally showed some restraint and peeled Jack off him or they just might have!

ms.bluesky · « **Reply #453 on:** Jul 15, 2006, 03:41 PM »

lol maybe he did well they havent seen each other in 4 years so who wouldnt jump also its heath ledger

lamusica · « **Reply #454 on:** Jul 15, 2006, 09:01 PM »

I don't know if there is a thread about when Ennis and Jack first realized they were in love, but I think it was at the time of the reunion embrace. I think, up to that time, they missed each other, but Ennis probably didn't expect to ever see Jack again, and Jack wasn't sure Ennis ever wanted to see him again, so their love remained new and untried up to that point. At the reunion, though, everything broke loose. They were out of control -- almost lost it completely, as you mentnioned above. Get me to the motel, quick! I think that's when they both realized that what they had was something that would last. It had withstood a four-year separation; what else might it survive? (As we know, now, it even survived death!)

gimmejack · « **Reply #455 on:** Jul 15, 2006, 09:07 PM »

IMO it was while they were still up on the mountain...Ennis was torn about leaving early...he was just acting sore about being cheated about one months pay. He was really upset about being cheated out of one month with Jack. The flashback scene shows Jack deeply in love. It's all in his eyes.

***side note***Only the elite actors can speak with their eyes as Jake does.

For Ennis, though he realized it later, but he was already in love just by his gut reaction in their departing.

Just my opinion...

aintfoolin · « **Reply #456 on:** Jul 16, 2006, 02:33 AM »

By the time four years had past, Ennis had alot of time to reflect on what he really felt for Jack. Marrying Alma was suppose to solve all his worrys, but It never fully satisfied the urge to be with Jack. He even tried to make Alma be Jack in bed. This thing was over before it started.Alma Jr. and Jenny were the only good thing to come out of this whole mess.

lamusica · « **Reply #457 on:** Jul 16, 2006, 11:17 AM »

I agree, gimmiejack, that Ennis was in love up on the mountain, but I don't think he really realized it. He wasn't willing to do anything, even meet Jack half-way, to keep in touch and keep what they had found alive. After the four-year separation, though, Ennis finally knew this thing had no reins -- it was not going to just go away. IMO, that's when he finally admitted to himself that he was in love with Jack.
Ditto on what you said about Jack's eyes. Has anyone ever said so much without uttering one word?

keren_b · « **Reply #458 on:** Jul 16, 2006, 01:09 PM »

I think we're sliding off topic but I can't help but responding to the latest posts - I don't think Ennis was able to admit to himself that he was in love with Jack, not on the mountain and not after (remember in the dozy embrace scene he was hugging Jack from behind because he didn't want to see nor feel that he was holding a man). Of course he was in love with him, but he couldn't admit that to himself, he kept fighting it all the time - until he found the shirts. only then, when he realized the depth of Jack's love for him, he was able to recognize his own feelings. Some people can hear him whisper "I love you" in this scene, which supports my opinion, and although I wasn't able to hear it myself I'm convinced it's there, in his expression, in the way he inhales and trys to catch something of Jack's scent on the shirt. I think only then Ennis could finally admit to himself that he truly loved Jack - when it was too late. :\'(

lamusica · « **Reply #459 on:** Jul 16, 2006, 05:51 PM »

I realize that in the short story, it says that Ennis embraced Jack from the back because he didn't want to realize he was hugging a man, but, in the movie, I don't think that's at all true. That type of embrace is a sign of endearment; there's nothing sexual about it, but just the desire to be close and intimate with one another. I think Ennis was, for once, showing a gentle, loving side to Jack and I think he was well aware of whom he was hugging.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #460 on:** Jul 16, 2006, 07:36 PM »

Quote from: lamusica on Jul 16, 2006, 05:51 PM

I realize that in the short story, it says that Ennis embraced Jack from the back because he didn't want to realize he was hugging a man,...

This was the single most confusing thing for me in the story. Why would Ennis not want to realize he was hugging Jack? After all, he kissed him face to face, they lay next to each other face to face. I would love to ask Annie Proulx about that.

welshwitch · « **Reply #461 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 04:47 AM »

They were face to face when carried away by passion and affection, as in SNIT and the reunion scene. They didn't face each other at times when their physical passion was satiated, as in the dozy embrace and the aftermath in the motel, or even up on the mountain in the "I ain't queer" scenes.

keren_b · « **Reply #462 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 10:17 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Jul 16, 2006, 07:36 PM

Quote from: lamusica on Jul 16, 2006, 05:51 PM
I realize that in the short story, it says that Ennis embraced Jack from the back because he didn't want to realize he was hugging a man,...

This was the single most confusing thing for me in the story. Why would Ennis not want to realize he was hugging Jack? After all, he kissed him face to face, they lay next to each other face to face. I would love to ask Annie Proulx about that.

It is confusing after we see the SNIT when they were facing each other, but we have to remember that the SNIT wasn't a part of the original story. if we put the movie aside for a minute and think about the short story, Annie Proulx never mentioned any kiss between them when they were still on the mountain, for all we know Ennis might have taken Jack from behind like in FNIT every time and they never kissed or faced each other at all, and then what Annie wrote about the dozy embrace makes sense. with the movie's additions it does strikes us as odd.

NoReins · « **Reply #463 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 10:38 AM »

Quote from: keren_b on Jul 17, 2006, 10:17 AM

Quote from: Patriot1 on Jul 16, 2006, 07:36 PM
Quote from: lamusica on Jul 16, 2006, 05:51 PM
I realize that in the short story, it says that Ennis embraced Jack from the back because he didn't want to realize he was hugging a man,...

This was the single most confusing thing for me in the story. Why would Ennis not want to realize he was hugging Jack? After all, he kissed him face to face, they lay next to each other face to face. I would love to ask Annie Proulx about that.

It is confusing after we see the SNIT when they were facing each other, but we have to remember that the SNIT wasn't a part of the original story. if we put the movie aside for a minute and think about the short story, Annie Proulx never mentioned any kiss between them when they were still on the mountain, for all we know Ennis might have taken Jack from behind like in FNIT every time and they never kissed or faced each other at all, and then what Annie wrote about the dozy embrace makes sense. with the movie's additions it does strikes us as odd.

That's a good point. My feeling is that with this you almost have to consider the short story and the movie as two separate entities. As Keren says, they may never have kissed or been together face to face in the short story, while in the movie there's no indication that Jack sees the dozy embrace as anything other than a show of affection (love?) from Ennis, no clue that Ennis holds him from behind because he doesn't want to see that it's a man that he holds.

Personally, what confused me most about the dozy embrace in the short story was that holding someone from behind could be seen as being something less than holding them face to face. I mean, Jack was standing at the fire, staring into space, sleeping on his feet - Ennis comes up behind him and hugs him, providing support, someone for Jack to lean on. Seems pretty romantic to me - my boyfriend often comes up behind me and hugs me like that when I'm standing doing something and I have to say, it's pretty damn nice!

ksxks · « **Reply #464 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 06:09 PM »

Quote from: Esme on Jul 05, 2006, 05:38 AM

I think he's got a look with mixed emotions... WHOA+ what? + "horny"+ MORE and then some

Yes Esme!! WHOA+ what? + "horny"+ MORE and then some. LOL -- love it.

kathy

gimmejack · « **Reply #465 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 06:12 PM »

Quote from: lamusica on Jul 16, 2006, 11:17 AM

I agree, gimmiejack, that Ennis was in love up on the mountain, but I don't think he really realized it. He wasn't willing to do anything, even meet Jack half-way, to keep in touch and keep what they had found alive. After the four-year separation, though, Ennis finally knew this thing had no reins -- it was not going to just go away. IMO, that's when he finally admitted to himself that he was in love with Jack.
Ditto on what you said about Jack's eyes. Has anyone ever said so much without uttering one word?

Not that I can recall, although Tom Hanks has an expression thats speaks volumes in Philadelphia...

Back on topic...Yes Ennis knew way before the reunion embrace that he loved Jack...that just sealed it and he was able to admit it..."No Reins"

lamusica · « **Reply #466 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 06:15 PM »

I'm with you, NoReins. I don't think it's "less" to be hugged from the back. I love it! It shows true affection without any expectations. You're right, too, keren, IMO we do have to keep the book and the short story separate, eventhough they are the most similar to one another than I have ever seen before ( any other books/movies, I mean.) I like the additions that were made in the movie, and this scene was, perhaps, the most poignant of all to me. I see love in Ennis's actions and acceptance of that affection from Jack in his face.

ksxks · « **Reply #467 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 06:25 PM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Jul 12, 2006, 09:52 PM

Quote from: CherryCake on Jul 12, 2006, 08:57 PM
Yes, sir, CSC, I am loving this scene, 100 per cent. Another thing I noticed in my recent viewing... is when Jack sees Ennis, he breaks out in a HUGE grin, and starts running, as Ennis is running down the stairs... they couln't wait..... 4 years. Damn!

When you consider that when they last saw each other Ennis didn't say much as they went their separate ways. Jack pulls up, Ennis greets him with a big ol' grin and "JFT!!" Jack couldn't help but grin. At the very least, he knew that Ennis WAS glad to see him.

CC: 4 years, damn --

We all love every single freeze-frame instant of this scene. But first of all, I love how not reticent Ennis is, at the top of the stairs. And he might well have been a bit more contained, as is so Ennis-ish. He might have been a bit awkward or kind of just friendly until they could get away someplace private. But seeing each other is so intense they can't hold back -- this jumping into each other's arms, these dizzying kisses, the whole thing. I don't need to "preach to the choir" here. It is so beautiful I just can hardly stand it. But back to Ennis at the top of the stairs then flying down them -- that's the moment Jack would know pretty much what "You bet" means.

kathy

ksxks · « **Reply #468 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 06:38 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jul 14, 2006, 01:19 PM

Maybe you guys should start a thred about at what point did Ennis or Jack KNOW they were in love? Has This Been done already?

Hmm... I don't know if there is a thread about that specifically -- let's look. There is the "When did Jack know to come on to Ennis?" but that's not being "in love," that's the sexual thing.

I'd probably say the being in love developed in each of them in those four years apart, after the specialness of their Brokeback Mountain summer, and then seeing how the other world was those four years...and they certainly seemed to be in love by the Reunion Scene and the Motel Scene...

kathy

ksxks · « **Reply #469 on:** Jul 17, 2006, 06:46 PM »

Quote from: lamusica on Jul 16, 2006, 05:51 PM

I realize that in the short story, it says that Ennis embraced Jack from the back because he didn't want to realize he was hugging a man, but, in the movie, I don't think that's at all true. That type of embrace is a sign of endearment; there's nothing sexual about it, but just the desire to be close and intimate with one another. I think Ennis was, for once, showing a gentle, loving side to Jack and I think he was well aware of whom he was hugging.

I so agree with you, lamusica. I guess the writers did want it to represent Ennis's denial about being queer, but to me, it's a very natural kind of hug and totally what any other queer man would have done right then. Or any man to his woman, or woman to her woman, or parent to a child, etc. (Seems I wrote about this before.) If Jack was "sleeping on his feet," a soft approach and hug from behind would be a nice, gentle support for him. And Ennis would have had to step between Jack and the fire if he wanted to hug Jack from the front, etc., etc.

I think it's beautiful, the hug from behind, and not denial at all -- plus, he's pressing his privates against Jack's ass, isn't he? Besides, it made it all easier on the camera.

I'm nervous about being OT! ^^)

kathy

jack123 · « **Reply #470 on:** Apr 09, 2012, 10:22 PM »

Quote from: christie wood on Feb 15, 2006, 04:42 PM

Yeah, that running into each others arms.....so lovely. And when they do hug, my gosh, you think they'd crush each other, they're hugging each other so much and so hard! The only reason to stop hugging is to kiss! I cannot, and never will, get enough of this scene, this kiss, this reunion.....how Heath and Jake (but especially Heath) were able to create such passion and make it believable.....amazing.

The only thing that spoils it for me is Alma witnessing the kiss. I remember the first time I saw that scene, my heart was beating, and I was like "at last, Ennis has realised what he let go four years ago", then Alma sees, and I was like "oh no, no, you weren't supposed to see that". Purely selfish on my part, because I'd been enjoying seeing Ennis and Jack reunited so much!

Christie,I felt the same way when Alma witnessed the kiss.I thought it spoiled the moment since I was enjoying the reunion and that passionate kiss.I am a selfish B**** myself can't help it.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #471 on:** Apr 12, 2012, 06:33 PM »

My heart did break for Alma considering how shocking it must have been for her to process what she witnessed. On a more selfish note I must admit that I still enjoy the embrace and powerful kiss that followed. When I see the scene I can't help but imagine what a face to face reunion will be like with me and my BBM. Ennis and Jack were separated for 4 years. My BBM and I have been apart for over 29 years. I'm guessing our reunion will involve many tears of joy.

Forever · « **Reply #472 on:** May 03, 2012, 06:12 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jun 26, 2006, 07:16 AM

Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.

I read this old post of yours (cannot sleep!), there were so much passion and excitements in all those post, where was I six years ago not knowing the existence of this masterpiece? I would have loved to be part of this joy, so many Brokies at that time!

Forever · « **Reply #473 on:** May 03, 2012, 06:25 PM »

Quote from: shieldmaid on Jun 26, 2006, 09:20 AM

I love the way their faces are overlapping here--they're touching in every way possible, even though they're fully clothed and standing up outside, in a public place. Jack's brow is creased as he gazes at Ennis; Ennis's eyes are closed as he drinks in the relief of this moment, to finally be reunited with the man he has dreamt about for so long. Can you imagine how many times each of them must have envisioned this moment??

It hurts, it is so beautiful.

It hurts indeed, and it's painful to watch, so many wasted years, whereas they should have been together!

keren_b · « **Reply #474 on:** May 04, 2012, 09:23 AM »

Quote from: Forever on May 03, 2012, 06:12 PM

I read this old post of yours (cannot sleep!), there were so much passion and excitements in all those post, where was I six years ago not knowing the existence of this masterpiece? I would have loved to be part of this joy, so many Brokies at that time!

I love it that you quote these old posts and bring these memories back to life. So many discussions that I had forgotten about...