Author Topic: Question about a scene - A Pole with Something? (Read 19614 times)

Cowboy Cody · « **on:** Feb 16, 2006, 07:44 PM »

After Ennis finds the dead, gutted sheep, they show a pole with something hanging on it. I don't know what it is, or what it is to represent. Any help is appreciated, thanks, Cowboy Cody.

shieldmaid · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 16, 2006, 10:14 PM »

I thought maybe it was some kind of boundary marker--signaling that the sheep had gotten away from them somehow, out of their territory. Just like the way we see Jack's and Ennis's feelings getting away from them . . . .

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 16, 2006, 10:48 PM »

Shieldmaid, thanks. Guess at my next viewing, I'm gonna have to pay closer attention.

jimmypage · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 12:31 PM »

This pole?
The thing on the pole is a dead coyote or two dead coyotes..
well what rests of two dead coyotes,
Ennis killed them..

*Froggy* · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 05:19 PM »

Quote from: jimmypage on Feb 17, 2006, 12:31 PM

This pole?
The thing on the pole is a dead coyote or two dead coyotes..
well what rests of two dead coyotes,
Ennis killed them..

Thankx very much for posting the cap..and what a great quality too!

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 05:36 PM »

Maybe strung-up dead wolves will keep living wolves away?

jimmypage · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 05:55 PM »

Quote from: bnjmn3 on Feb 17, 2006, 05:36 PM

Maybe strung-up dead wolves will keep living wolves away?

For me it would work, If I was a wolf...

sharve · « **Reply #7 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 08:28 PM »

yes, the scent of the dead wolves is supposed to keep them away (it warns them of potential danger) but it doesn't always work. actually the fear wears off after a couple of days

camom · « **Reply #8 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 08:35 PM »

What I'm wondering is what the dead coyote is supposed to symbolize. If the dead sheep is a forshadowing of death, what is the coyote? Revenge? That's what it makes me think of.

camom

sharve · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 09:03 PM »

when in the movie do we see it? if I remember correctly, it is the morning after the first tent scene? revenge? by whom and for what?

BBBOY · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 09:12 PM »

Quote from: camom on Feb 17, 2006, 08:35 PM

What I'm wondering is what the dead coyote is supposed to symbolize. If the dead sheep is a forshadowing of death, what is the coyote? Revenge? That's what it makes me think of.

I noticed the coyote skin the first time I saw the movie. I don't think it symbolizes anything, just one of the wonderful details that make this film the great one it is.

But then, I could be wrong. I normally have do be hit over the head with a baseball bat before I get symbolism. Go figure.

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 10:50 PM »

Quote from: BBBOY on Feb 17, 2006, 09:12 PM

Quote from: camom on Feb 17, 2006, 08:35 PM
What I'm wondering is what the dead coyote is supposed to symbolize. If the dead sheep is a forshadowing of death, what is the coyote? Revenge? That's what it makes me think of.

I noticed the coyote skin the first time I saw the movie. I don't think it symbolizes anything, just one of the wonderful details that make this film the great one it is.

But then, I could be wrong. I normally have do be hit over the head with a baseball bat before I get symbolism. Go figure.

Thanks everyone! I got it...finally...

Hey BBBoy...JUST a baseball bat??? hehehehehehe

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 17, 2006, 11:45 PM »

Maybe the dead sheep is a warning for Ennis to conform or a foreshadowing of Jack's future. The dead coyotes...Ennis's revenge/ trying to protect what he cares for? I think everything/every frame means something. Remember that Heath said there were goals for every scene they filmed. They multiple layers bring incredible meaning to the story.

jimmypage · « **Reply #13 on:** Feb 18, 2006, 10:18 AM »

Poor wolves, they have always been used as symbols of evil ...

BBM Obsessed · « **Reply #14 on:** Feb 18, 2006, 10:23 AM »

Since Ennis is such a better marksman than Jack, I figured "Got one sheep, you bastards... well, I got one of you now." From the very first viewing I thought it was a warning to the "enemies."

*Froggy* · « **Reply #15 on:** Feb 18, 2006, 11:12 AM »

Quote from: jimmypage on Feb 18, 2006, 10:18 AM

Poor wolves, they have always been used as symbols of evil ...

YEp..which is why I love that Pianist who lives with wolves!!!

camom · « **Reply #16 on:** Feb 18, 2006, 03:18 PM »

Quote from: sharve on Feb 17, 2006, 09:03 PM

when in the movie do we see it? if I remember correctly, it is the morning after the first tent scene? revenge? by whom and for what?

I don't know that it's about revenge; that's just what it makes me think of. I do think that if the dead sheep is a symbol, the dead coyote must be a symbol, too--plus the way it's framed in the shot makes stand out. Why do that if there wasn't some importance attached to it?

camom

BBBOY · « **Reply #17 on:** Feb 19, 2006, 12:15 AM »

Quote from: Cowboy Cody on Feb 17, 2006, 10:50 PM

Quote from: BBBOY on Feb 17, 2006, 09:12 PM
Quote from: camom on Feb 17, 2006, 08:35 PM
What I'm wondering is what the dead coyote is supposed to symbolize. If the dead sheep is a forshadowing of death, what is the coyote? Revenge? That's what it makes me think of.

Hey BBBoy...JUST a baseball bat??? hehehehehehe

I cam be really dense sometimes with symbolisim and ah....... other things. Need a good wack in the head when someone is interested. Go figure, guess that's why I'm and ennis. :-\

christie wood · « **Reply #18 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:33 AM »

In the screenplay, it describes Ennis riding out to the sheep after the first tent scene, and when he discovers the dead sheep "a look of shame washes over Ennis's face". I think it's all connected with what happened the night before, with Ennis struggling to make sense of it all. The sheep were used later as a symbol for their relationship.....after the snowstorm, the sheep got mixed, and they had to go and separate them all. In the screenplay and in the story, it desribes this scene from Ennis's POV "in a way, everything seemed mixed".

He was one confused cowboy......just needed Jack's love and Brokeback Mountain to make things ok. :'(

Jennis · « **Reply #19 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:45 AM »

Quote from: christie wood on Feb 20, 2006, 05:33 AM

In the screenplay, it describes Ennis riding out to the sheep after the first tent scene, and when he discovers the dead sheep "a look of shame washes over Ennis's face". I think it's all connected with what happened the night before, with Ennis struggling to make sense of it all. The sheep were used later as a symbol for their relationship.....after the snowstorm, the sheep got mixed, and they had to go and separate them all. In the screenplay and in the story, it desribes this scene from Ennis's POV "in a way, everything seemed mixed".

He was one confused cowboy......just needed Jack's love and Brokeback Mountain to make things ok. :'(

I think the sheep were symbolic too.As you say,it's after the first night in the tent and Ennis's emotions are all over the place.The way i view it ,the picture cutting back and forth to Ennis and the gutted sheep was how Ennis is feeling at that moment in time,like he has just had his guts ripped out.It was a similar feeling he felt when they parted after finishing the sheep herding on Brokeback.He felt a gut wrenching pain.This of course is just my own opinion.

Jennis.x

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #20 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 10:56 AM »

Quote from: Jennis on Feb 20, 2006, 05:45 AM

Quote from: christie wood on Feb 20, 2006, 05:33 AM
In the screenplay, it describes Ennis riding out to the sheep after the first tent scene, and when he discovers the dead sheep "a look of shame washes over Ennis's face". I think it's all connected with what happened the night before, with Ennis struggling to make sense of it all. The sheep were used later as a symbol for their relationship.....after the snowstorm, the sheep got mixed, and they had to go and separate them all. In the screenplay and in the story, it desribes this scene from Ennis's POV "in a way, everything seemed mixed".

He was one confused cowboy......just needed Jack's love and Brokeback Mountain to make things ok. :'(

I think the sheep were symbolic too.As you say,it's after the first night in the tent and Ennis's emotions are all over the place.The way i view it ,the picture cutting back and forth to Ennis and the gutted sheep was how Ennis is feeling at that moment in time,like he has just had his guts ripped out.It was a similar feeling he felt when they parted after finishing the sheep herding on Brokeback.He felt a gut wrenching pain.This of course is just my own opinion.

Jennis.x

Jennis - astute observation and linkage to the story. Thanks.

Jennis · « **Reply #21 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 01:26 PM »

Quote

I think the sheep were symbolic too.As you say,it's after the first night in the tent and Ennis's emotions are all over the place.The way i view it ,the picture cutting back and forth to Ennis and the gutted sheep was how Ennis is feeling at that moment in time,like he has just had his guts ripped out.It was a similar feeling he felt when they parted after finishing the sheep herding on Brokeback.He felt a gut wrenching pain.This of course is just my own opinion.

Jennis.x

Quote

Jennis - astute observation and linkage to the story. Thanks.

Quote

Thankyou. The more i think about the story coupled with the film,the more i see.Although,the gutted sheep thing hit me straight away.What a story though.You could analize it forever more.How wonderfully clever of everyone involved.

Jennis.x

christie wood · « **Reply #22 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:09 PM »

Quote from: Jennis on Feb 20, 2006, 01:26 PM

Quote

I think the sheep were symbolic too.As you say,it's after the first night in the tent and Ennis's emotions are all over the place.The way i view it ,the picture cutting back and forth to Ennis and the gutted sheep was how Ennis is feeling at that moment in time,like he has just had his guts ripped out.It was a similar feeling he felt when they parted after finishing the sheep herding on Brokeback.He felt a gut wrenching pain.This of course is just my own opinion.

Jennis.x
Quote

Jennis - astute observation and linkage to the story. Thanks.

And that is the total beauty of this story.....only a few pages long, and yet can be analysed forever, so many amazing things to be taken from it. Every time I read the story, the screenplay or view the film, I see new things every time.
Quote

Thankyou. The more i think about the story coupled with the film,the more i see.Although,the gutted sheep thing hit me straight away.What a story though.You could analize it forever more.How wonderfully clever of everyone involved.

Jennis.x

bbmlover · « **Reply #23 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:28 PM »

after reading the story myself - just recently (2 days back!!!!)
........
i'am so really amazed.......... of how close the movie is with book.

Some things like - "dead sheep"... was really on my head - just like that......... now after you guys discuss it.......mmmmm
... WOW....... i never thought of all this "point of views"

Jennis · « **Reply #24 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 05:49 PM »

Quote from: bbmlover on Feb 20, 2006, 05:28 PM

after reading the story myself - just recently (2 days back!!!!)
........
i'am so really amazed.......... of how close the movie is with book.

Some things like - "dead sheep"... was really on my head - just like that......... now after you guys discuss it.......mmmmm
... WOW....... i never thought of all this "point of views"

Yes,it's something new everyday isn't it.Just today i thought about the scene with Jack,the thanksgiving dinner when he gave his father-in-law the dressing down he deserved.Anyway,i always wondered about the turkey carving.Sounds odd i know,but the camera emphasis on the carving knives at both dinners struck me as maybe it was meant to mean the atmosphere could of been cut with a knife?

Just a thought,as Jack is so stressed and uncomfortable after the L.D confrontation,and Ennis is equally uncomfortable with Alma&Munroe.

I just love the way Jake plays that scene.If you remember when he turns the tv off for the second time,we see him sit down again but his bottom is constantly lifting from the chair seat.I wonder if he was directed to do that or if that was just the great Gyllenhaal at work?

Jennis.x

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #25 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 06:31 PM »

I vote for the great Gyllenhaal at work!

Jennis · « **Reply #26 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 07:10 PM »

Quote from: Cowboy Cody on Feb 20, 2006, 06:31 PM

I vote for the great Gyllenhaal at work!

Me Too

J.x

BBBOY · « **Reply #27 on:** Feb 20, 2006, 07:20 PM »

Quote from: Cowboy Cody on Feb 20, 2006, 06:31 PM

I vote for the great Gyllenhaal at work!

My vote goes to Jake too.

christie wood · « **Reply #28 on:** Feb 21, 2006, 04:27 PM »

Has to be the great Jake of course!

Jennis, your thought about the thanksgiving scene was really interesting, I'd never thought about it like that...but knowing what we know about all the symbolism in this film, you're probably right.

It breaks my heart to see Ennis sitting at the table with his pregnant ex-wife and her smug husband. The only saving grace for him are his two girls (his "angels"). He tries to be cheery, "doesn't want to be a sad daddy". God, I love that line in the story/screenplay...don't know why, but it just says so much.

Then again later on in that scene, with Alma confronting Ennis in the kitchen....you can feel the tension between them, and if you keep your eye on Ennis during this exchange, you can see him firing up, the tension mounting, his body stiffen.....amazing acting from Heath Ledger, yet again.

I always wondered why she didn't confront him with the kiss she had witnessed on their 4-year reunion......but now realise how brilliant Annie Proulx was to bring in something not even the reader was aware of.....of Alma sneaking around, checking up on Ennis behind his back, to confirm what she already knew. So when her time came to reveal what she knew to Ennis, the reader/viewer was as stunned as Ennis....inspired.

Sorry, I've mentioned quite a few things here, but you know how it is when you start thinking about something, leads on to something else.....but at least it's all related to the thanksgiving scene.....imagine, just all that from one scene!

Jennis · « **Reply #29 on:** Feb 21, 2006, 05:46 PM »

Sorry, I've mentioned quite a few things here, but you know how it is when you start thinking about something, leads on to something else.....but at least it's all related to the thanksgiving scene.....imagine, just all that from one scene!

Quote

Christie,
Don't be sorry.That's what forums like this one are here for.Great discussions,observations,different points of view.I love all that.And what you say about thinking,well that's just it! We are all constantly thinking about it,even though it has been out a while now,it's still a great topic of conversation.I find it occupying my thoughts constantly.I even question myself as to why?It's so thought provoking.I don't think i have ever analized a film in this way before.But i'm a constant thinker and love learning something new everyday.It's mind expanding.

Jennis.x