Topic: The people who knew about Jack and Ennis

[vedrana]

There were probably rumours around Riverton dating back to the time Joe Aguirre first spied the two of them together.  Chances are he mentioned what he saw to at least one other person, and in a small, closed community like Riverton, there would be nowhere to hide.

This is very very possible! Yet, like many other things it stays undefined!

[tpe]

I do think she knew though. She'd probably heard from her father that Jack was gay, and from there she could put two and two together and figure out that this Ennis character that Jack was devoting so much time and energy to must have been more to that story than Jack was telling her.

Interesting.  For me, Lureen probably knew only after Jack died -- and this assumes that he was indeed murdered, and not just accidentally killed...

As for Ennis, I reallt think that she knew only during the phone call.  The strange sounds that she made during the conversation with Ennis (after she said that he and Jack herded sheep back in 63) showed that she understood at exactly that moment the deeper meaning behind Jack's and Ennis's friendship.  To me, that was the moment when she put 2 and 2 together, and was struggling to remain calm over the phone.  But the sounds she made gave away her inner state of mind...

[tpe]

There were probably rumours around Riverton dating back to the time Joe Aguirre first spied the two of them together.  Chances are he mentioned what he saw to at least one other person, and in a small, closed community like Riverton, there would be nowhere to hide.

Although what you say is speculative, I do find it quite probable that Aguirre may have mentioned it to someone else.  However, Aguirre lived in Signal, and not in Riverton.  And so, any rumors in Riverton could have come from another source -- perhaps Alma or Monroe or someone else...

[athena0204]

Interesting.  For me, Lureen probably knew only after Jack died -- and this assumes that he was indeed murdered, and not just accidentally killed...

As for Ennis, I reallt think that she knew only during the phone call.  The strange sounds that she made during the conversation with Ennis (after she said that he and Jack herded sheep back in 63) showed that she understood at exactly that moment the deeper meaning behind Jack's and Ennis's friendship.  To me, that was the moment when she put 2 and 2 together, and was struggling to remain calm over the phone.  But the sounds she made gave away her inner state of mind...

But wasn't she suspicious that for years, Jack drove 14 hours to Wyoming and 14 hours back to Texas, two or three times a year, just to see this Ennis guy that she kept hearing so much about? And didn't she wonder why during all those years Ennis never came to Texas? She even asked Jack about that, because I think she thought it kind of strange that Jack always came up with some excuse everytime she hinted at wanting to meet this Ennis character in person. Or did she think there was no Ennis, that it was just a name Jack had made up in attempt to cover up his going off to with other men? Because without a doubt Lureen knew Jack was gay, her father had resented him from the beginning, so surely he wouldn't have made a secret of that in front of Lureen. I'm sure early on her father warned her about his suspicions that she had married a guy who was "queer". But the question is, did she specifically know about Ennis and the answer to that could possibly be that she thought Ennis didn't exist, that it was just a false name Jack came up with. Because she says over the phone that she hadn't thought Brokeback Mountain was a real place, so maybe it was only after Jack died, and Ennis called her that she realized that Ennis was actually a real person, and Jack had devoted so much time and energy to him all those years because this man was her husband's true love.

[tpe]

But wasn't she suspicious that for years, Jack drove 14 hours to Wyoming and 14 hours back to Texas, two or three times a year, just to see this Ennis guy that she kept hearing so much about? And didn't she wonder why during all those years Ennis never came to Texas? She even asked Jack about that, because I think she thought it kind of strange that Jack always came up with some excuse everytime she hinted at wanting to meet this Ennis character in person. Or did she think there was no Ennis, that it was just a name Jack had made up in attempt to cover up his going off to with other men? Because without a doubt Lureen knew Jack was gay, her father had resented him from the beginning, so surely he wouldn't have made a secret of that in front of Lureen. I'm sure early on her father warned her about his suspicions that she had married a guy who was "queer". But the question is, did she specifically know about Ennis and the answer to that could possibly be that she thought Ennis didn't exist, that it was just a false name Jack came up with. Because she says over the phone that she hadn't thought Brokeback Mountain was a real place, so maybe it was only after Jack died, and Ennis called her that she realized that Ennis was actually a real person, and Jack had devoted so much time and energy to him all those years because this man was her husband's true love.

I actually think that Lureen was too busy with the business to really have cared that much.  Even her complaints about Jack going away were associated with him not being there to deal with a new tractor, or not being there in the role of salesman.  The remote and loveless goodbye kiss they gave each other at the end of the blue parka scene attests to this.  I also think that Lureen ceased to love Jack before jack ceased to care about her, although this is debatable. 

Perhaps the only glimmer of sympathy we see later in the marriage had to do with the scene with Bobby and Lureen's father.  But even here, it was not love that was tantamount -- it was the satisfaction of seeing her bossy dad put in place.  And this she appreciated as much as Jack, I think.

[athena0204]

I actually think that Lureen was too busy with the business to really have cared that much.  Even her complaints about Jack going away were associated with him not being there to deal with a new tractor, or not being there in the role of salesman.  The remote and loveless goodbye kiss they gave each other at the end of the blue parka scene attests to this.  I also think that Lureen ceased to love Jack before jack ceased to care about her, although this is debatable. 

Perhaps the only glimmer of sympathy we see later in the marriage had to do with the scene with Bobby and Lureen's father.  But even here, it was not love that was tantamount -- it was the satisfaction of seeing her bossy dad put in place.  And this she appreciated as much as Jack, I think.

Hmm, it could be that she just never even cared about what Jack was doing because all she thought of was the business. When she talks Jack before he's about to go on his trip, it does seem like she doesn't really care about the details of the trip or details about this Ennis. Maybe she was so caught up in the business that she never even saw what was right in front of her. I do believe that she at some point though she found out Jack was gay, and that the story she tells to Ennis over the phone is fabricated. She knew how that Jack had been murdered in a hate crime, but just recited the made-up story to Ennis just like she had done about a dozen times to other people. But when Ennis tells her about Brokeback Mountain, she came to the realization of who this man was and why Jack had really gone on those trips all those years.

[atalley]

I agree that Aquirre & Jack's ma knew early on.  I think as Alma, Jr. got older that she knew.  We know when Alma found out, although she didn't know what it all meant.  She was angry confused, & devestated.  I don't think Loreen knew for sure until the phone call from Ennis, but I sometimes wonder about the question..."wonder why husbands never want to dance w/ their wives, Jack"?     

[tpe]

Hmm, it could be that she just never even cared about what Jack was doing because all she thought of was the business. When she talks Jack before he's about to go on his trip, it does seem like she doesn't really care about the details of the trip or details about this Ennis. Maybe she was so caught up in the business that she never even saw what was right in front of her. I do believe that she at some point though she found out Jack was gay, and that the story she tells to Ennis over the phone is fabricated. She knew how that Jack had been murdered in a hate crime, but just recited the made-up story to Ennis just like she had done about a dozen times to other people. But when Ennis tells her about Brokeback Mountain, she came to the realization of who this man was and why Jack had really gone on those trips all those years.

Of course, there is enough ambiguity in the story and the movie that one cannot state definitively what is true and what is not.    And of course, even Jack's "murder" is uncertain -- whether he was truly murdured, or was he killed by an accident. 

Whatever the case, it is interesting to see how each of us views/interprets certain details and events a bit differently. 

[tpe]

I agree that Aquirre & Jack's ma knew early on.  I think as Alma, Jr. got older that she knew.  We know when Alma found out, although she didn't know what it all meant.  She was angry confused, & devestated.  I don't think Loreen knew for sure until the phone call from Ennis, but I sometimes wonder about the question..."wonder why husbands never want to dance w/ their wives, Jack"?     

This is pretty much how I see it also.