Topic: The development of Jack and Ennis relationship

[perarduaadastra]

A lot of things happen in the story and in their budding relationship starting with Ennis meeting the bear.
Jack gets in to camp and realizes he depends on Ennis and is concerned when he finds him missing.
Their first physical contact occurs when Jack swabs Ennis' cuts - a major milestone.
Ennis is prepared to keep eating beans but not Jack  - the fundamental difference between the two.
Ennis won't kill a sheep but will go as far as shooting an elk however - he is prepared to compromise somewhat.
Ennis identifies himself as the "shooter" when he talks about the coyote he shot - Jack always misses.
Ennis says "balls on him the size a apples" and asks if Jack wants to wash too before he strips his jeans off - is that a come on or what?

[Tony]

  As far as I know, we haven't done a detailed step-by step look at how the physical and emotion barriers came down between the two before FNIT.  Which is kind of surprising, as each new stage would be there.  I hope I understand the topic question, and apologize if I have it wrong.  But it could be a useful study of how love begins.
  Certainly, in the movie, Jack's trying to nurse the scratch on Ennis' forehead after the "come across a bear.." incident, does show a sense of intimacy that would not usually be there between two co-workers.
  We've dug into everything else. This one might even be well explored by a list of conversations, glances, touches, that were the process of bringing down the walls.  That, alas, would be work.
  But, myself, would be glad to read what others found as stages in the intimacy, both before and after FNIT.  Great topic, BTW!

[lancecowboy]

  I echo Tony, perarduaadastra. Great topic.

I also concur with Tony that it will be work to detail the step by step development of the relationship. I don't know how much I can contribute, but I think it is certainly worthwhile, and as Tony said, surprising that it hasn't been done already.

I think Jack's nursing Ennis' wound was more than physical contact. The handshake, made obvious by Jack's waiting hand, as if to say to Ennis, I can wait forever if you are that damn shy, but I am determined to touch you. And that smartalec remark, "Your folks stopped at Ennis?" was meant to draw out more of the laconic cowboy. Jack showed interest from the first moment they laid eyes on each other and never let go. Handshake, beer talk, showing off at the jumping off point, etc.

Tending the wound was more revealing, showing a tender, softer side, without the bravado macho stuff. It's that gentler kinder Jack that Ennis fell for, and was willing to go hunt an elk. Ennis didn't want to shoot the sheep because he didn't want to get on the wrong side of Aguierre. But since he already made them break the law sleeping out there with the sheep, breaking another law is more acceptable of the two alternatives.

I agree that Ennis happy with beans while Jack won't settle for the same old boring food ration is a significant difference.

As for the comments about Ennis being the "shooter" and Jack's missing... Interrrresting.    

I also thought the comment about the coyote with balls the size of apples and the shower scene were unusual. Ennis appeared to be excited after the prospect of hunting down the coyote, his adrenalin pumping, his testosterone level up. I don't believe it was consciously a "come-on" but more like the macho machismo posturing that is common in the military among high-octane men. I think Ennis was just happy, in fact almost ecstatic just to be the "man" and not having to cook and tend the camp. It was like Ennis yearned to be the "man" in the relationship.  There is no doubt Jack was attracted to that, as most gay men would be. I can't say if Ennis was consciously flirting with Jack, or simply appreciative of Jack's attention, acceptance, friendship, camaraderie. I suppose there is a fine line between preening and flirting.

Great topic!

[perarduaadastra]

Thanks Tony and Lance. I see what you mean, Jack and Ennis swapping jobs also let them swap to more natural roles which let the relationship develop.

[FlwrChild]

Hmm, the steps of their relationship. From strangers to coworkers to friends to intimacy. I like it.  Good topic.

I agree that Jack's attempt to tend to Ennis' wound was more than just a friendly gesture. It was tender and caring beyond casual acquaintance.

I also agree about Ennis' reasons for refusing to shoot one of the sheep but his willingness to shoot the elk.

And the significance of Ennis being satisfied with beans and Jack wanting more.

As to the scene where Ennis is cleaning up and offers some of the water to Jack, I don't think that he was flirting there, consciously or otherwise. In their situation it would be common for such co-workers to share provisions and bathing in front of a co-worker, fellow soldier, etc was pretty common. I do think that Jack was interested in what Ennis was doing (as depicted in the movie anyway) but knew that it wasn't the time to make anything of it.

And I don't really think that Ennis' contentment with switching assignments had anything to do with wanting or needing to have 'the man's role,' since again in these situations either job would have been carried out by a man. The conditions on the mountain alone would preclude any connotation of 'female' roles and I don't think that tending camp would necessarily carry that impression. I think that Ennis just liked the solitude of the mountain, the opportunity to move about (he always seemed restless in his own skin) and being able to do something nice for Jack. I never got the impression that he yearned to be the "man" in the relationship because I don't think that he ever saw Jack as anything less than that either. They had no need to assume roles or occupy labels with each other. They 'each found a companion where none was expected.' Though I will speculate that he probably maintained the positions of that initial intimate encounter because he wouldn't have been able to accept himself in any other position without having to ask himself questions he wasn't able to contemplate (that's just my personal take on it).

[aintfoolin]

A lot of things happen in the story and in their budding relationship starting with Ennis meeting the bear.
Jack gets in to camp and realizes he depends on Ennis and is concerned when he finds him missing.
Their first physical contact occurs when Jack swabs Ennis' cuts - a major milestone.
Ennis is prepared to keep eating beans but not Jack  - the fundamental difference between the two.
Ennis won't kill a sheep but will go as far as shooting an elk however - he is prepared to compromise somewhat.
Ennis identifies himself as the "shooter" when he talks about the coyote he shot - Jack always misses.
Ennis says "balls on him the size a apples" and asks if Jack wants to wash too before he strips his jeans off - is that a come on or what?

 Geat topic.

To me, it's the more subtle gestures that told the story. The playful banter, How they played off each other in the beginning, what Ennis says and how  Jack responds and so on..

Almost in a  sub-concious way, the playfull  banter between them may be seen as a sign of * I like this person, alot*, without outwardly admitting it.  Ennis being teasingly critical of Jack ( "dumass missin, "rodeo f#ck-up", "I thought you said that horse coud'nt throw you"), and so on, and Jack playing the endearing clown about it,  Feling each other out, they soon  found that they liked each other very much.

By the "balls the size a apples" scene, we know Jack at least, obviously  had the beginnings of deeper feelings for Ennis that went beyond just friendship, but I don't feel Ennis had a clue about them ..not yet. Don't think Ennis would strip down buck-naked in front of another man he knew desired him sexually at that moment, but Jack was totally absorbed at the thought of Ennis nude just feet away from him though he tried to hide it.

 I also feel that each was only aware of their own thoughts about each other and kept them hidden..but I was struck by Ennis's statement " you may be a sinner, but I've yet to have the opportuniy" and Jack's body language and  response to that, handing Ennis the whiskey bottle as if to say , "well, let's get drunk and I'll show you somethin. "..not that Jack would take advantage of Ennis's ...ahem, inexperience..but well, I do go back and forth on it. I think he thought about it,  and Ennis did'nt leave camp that night. An opportunity simply presented itself and Jack took it to finally reveal his true feelings to Ennis and bring them out in the open, leading Ennis to do the same. MO.

 

[brandedandrew]

Its scary going to bed thinking you're "this way",  and finding out you're "that way".   Its like what my lover tells me whenever I have some sort of crisis,  "you're growing up now figure it out" (too easy).   I guess Jack and Ennis in a way was too.   "Don't you think, before you do something"  is another favorite phrase I hear a lot.  Maybe it was that way with Jack and Ennis.   They went around doing what men do work, get drunk,  fight  and stuff,  without really thinking about being a man, because that's who they were, men.  But they were just young and dumb like me.   They had no one to show them the ropes,  or when to duck, punch or walk away.   The time together before "that night",  it was fun,  shoot the elk,  get drunk,  tell stories,  talk about their fathers.  And without a second thought find who they were to each other that first night,  after that was the "Oh Sh@#t" moment.   They had no one to go to but to each other, recognizing they were still men, but had this feeling for each other,  and to say to each other "it wasn't so bad was it?" But it was bad enough to keep it only to themselves.  There was no one to show them the way, and maybe too damn scared to follow if there were someone there for them.

[Tony]

Its scary going to bed thinking you're "this way",  and finding out you're "that way".   

  Wow, was this a good post!  In a lot of ways, I think it follows naturally, the one before, from Aintfoolin. Although written in different styles, both remind us that these two young guys didn't know, automatically just what had happened.
  I very much liked the line: "...they had no one to go to but each other..." and the rest that followed. Really enjoyed these posts and also the ones before them. Great topic!

[FlwrChild]

Agreed Tony. Those were beautifully put and really helped me not just understand but actually visualize their internal struggle as it might have played out for them. Thanks friends. 

[WildCatIsle]

 I thought  the first step beyond the mutual esteem and friendship it was carries out by Ennis.

Jack: "No more  beans"  Ennis come down to the bridge and requests soup. Even Jack did not asked for him