Topic: Ennis, Jack and swearing

[chowhound]

As we all know, the final line of the movie is Ennis's "Jack, I swear..."

This closely follows the short story:

"'Jack, I swear...,' he said, although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind."

I've thought about this snippet before but have never been entirely clear about the what the narrator is implying by linking both Jack and Ennis to "swearing". When the narrator tells us that "Jack had never asked him [Ennis] to swear to anything" is she suggesting that Jack had never asked Ennis to formally - as in swearing an oath - to commit to anything in their relationship? And is she thereby suggesting that Ennis is somehow now prepared to take that step even though - or because - Jack is now dead?

And what is being implied when we are told that Ennis is "not of the swearing kind". I suppose the narrator isn't saying that Ennis rarely uses foul language though I suppose that's possible.

Any suggestions?

[Tony]

  Dear Chowhound - this came up once before, but, hopefully not on a thread devoted to it, or else, whoops, it'll be tacked on there.....

     Am not sure what your geographical background is, or dialect, but, as a Southerner, those words had various possibilities in the Southern and related rural Western dialects.  A lot has to do with the rising or falling of the melody of the words.

   - I swear....(tone rising on the word "swear" and prolonged) shows non-comittal, non-judgmental amazement

   - I swear....(both words fairly level but "swear" can go lower) shows disgust, disappointment OR agreement and commitment and shared beliefs

   - I swear....("swear" lilts down) shows disappointment and even grief, and can be stretched to empathy and a loving attachment

    My own take on those last 2 words, then reflected my familiarity with the dialect (and AP knows those dialects), and it was that he was saying in his own way: "Damn, Jack, I loved you so much...".  But other people posted and I found their takes also very rightful.

 As far as AP writing that he wasn't prone to swearing, I would add, some Southerners find the words "I swear" too touchy and I've known them to use the somewhat absurd....."I s'wan", but for amazement, not a loving projection.  The latter is used primarily by women.
 Now, am in big trouble if somebody finds my original post and it's different from the above.  Oh, well....

[chowhound]

Thanks, Tony, for your thoughtful reply. As far as my own linguistic background is concerned, it's very different from yours - it's Southern English, though I've lived in Canada for many years and have visited the US on a number of occasions, so am aware of dialectical varieties. By the way, I agree with you on what Ennis's final words really mean. Count me in your camp on that one.

However, as far as the short story is concerned, I now realize there is a distinct ambiguity in what the narrator tells us. To recap, the passage goes:

"'Jack, I swear...,' he said, although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind."

In my original post, I'd assumed that "himself" referred back to Ennis. In other words, an expanded version of this passage would read "Jack, I swear...," he said, although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and he himself [ie Ennis] was not the swearing kind." But, on reflection, I can see that "himself" could equally refer not back to Ennis but to Jack. Interesting. I wonder how other people have read it in the past. And if it does refer to Jack, what does it tell us about him when we learn that he is "not the swearing kind"?

[Tony]

  Hi, Chowhound - yeah, I see what you mean. Which one does the "himself" refer to? I tried to re-write the sentence to see if AP could have indicated it was Ennis (if it was), some other way, but it lost the flow of sound needed.
 Also, it made more sense, at least to me, as referring to Ennis, as it fulfilled a statement, whereas, if it meant Jack, it was opening up something else, and expanding the information awkwardly, and maybe to no purpose.
  If most people have read it as seeming to refer to Ennis (and it would seem they have), then that would support it as being her intent.

 Hmmm. Wait a minute. Jack was the swearing kind. Didn't he toss off some vulgarity in the last meet-up?  I'll hafta go look it up. But then "swear" may refer more to oath-taking, rather than cussing. Wham. I think it was Manhattengirl who evolved the whole subject very nicely, but that was well over 2 years ago.  I'm confused.  But I think it means Ennis.

[jackster]

. . . And what is being implied when we are told that Ennis is "not of the swearing kind". I suppose the narrator isn't saying that Ennis rarely uses foul language though I suppose that's possible.

Any suggestions?

Well Chowhound here’s my suggestion:

I believe the “swearing” is meant as simply as an indication of oath taking, it certainly couldn’t be considered in the sense of profanity as both boys are shown quite accomplished in that regard, though IMO not to an excess given the location and circumstances.

To me Ennis’ “Jack I swear” is seen as an oath, not unlike marriage vows, though done privately but with considerably more meaning as Ennis was really admitting to himself and committing himself to Jack (or at least the image or memory of Jack). Given Ennis’ persona, this personal admission is by far the most important he could make. It is his complete surrender to Jack.

With her statement, I feel Annie makes it clear that Jack had never ask Ennis to swear allegiance or faithfulness to him (Jack), and likewise he certainly didn’t maintain any faithfulness to Ennis (in the sense of being a sole sexual partner) rollin' his own an' all. Since both men were married it could be argued that they were both unfaithful, though Jack with his Mexico trips is seen as more of a philanderer.

However, to me the mere fact of maintaining a fiery, yet clandestine relationship for twenty years indicates a considerable faithfulness on the part of both men. One that transcended a purely sexual need.

Just MHO

[FlwrChild]

jackster, you put that very well and your take comes pretty close to mine.

I definitely think that the original text meant that Jack was himself not the swearing kind, as well as Ennis. And yes, that in that context she meant swearing as in declaring an oath of some sort and that neither of them were particularly demonstrative or inclined to make declarations about what they had together (in fact, I'll take that train of thought one step further and say that imo Jack would have been perfectly happy if Ennis had agreed to a life with him and never once said he loved him, because he didn't need the declaration, he just wanted them to be together).

The one part I look at differently is the issue of fidelity. I know a lot of people feel that Jack was somehow 'less faithful' than Ennis because he saw other men. But to your point, they were both being unfaithful to their wives so they were equal in that regard. And Ennis had Cassie so he was no more faithful than Jack in that respect. And yes, I know that some people think that's different but I can't for the life of me think how. Jack was only with other men because he couldn't be with Ennis and he had needs (to be intimate with a man) and Ennis was only with Cassie because he couldn't bring himself to make a life with Jack and he had needs (to convince society and himself that he was 'normal' and live the life he believed he was supposed to be living). So it really all comes back to what you said so beautifully here:

However, to me the mere fact of maintaining a fiery, yet clandestine relationship for twenty years indicates a considerable faithfulness on the part of both men. One that transcended a purely sexual need.


And the best interpretation I have for that part of the story is that Ennis, upon losing Jack and feeling the shock from that, and then going to LF and discovering the shirts, thereby unlocking the truth of Jack's devotion to him and his own recognition that what they'd had all that time was in fact love, felt compelled to share that realization with Jack and express it in the only way he knew how: "Jack, I swear..."

And I love that he says nothing else. It's the perfect portal for our own imaginations to fill in the blank or not, depending on what we think he was trying to say. Love that Annie Proulx. 

[jackster]

. . . yes, I know that some people think that's different but I can't for the life of me think how. . . .

FC - didn't mean to be judgemental here. Only reason for this difference I can see is that Ennis is apparently upfront with Jack (and his other significant's like Jr.) about Cassie, their relationship, and what he sees it's future to be (not much). We're given the impression in the SS that Jack's unseen relationships are kept secret "You do it with other guys, Jack?" "Shit no," said Jack who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own - so there's the aspect of lying involved (even if reasoned) which I can see as making him look less faithful, or at least less devoted. Kinda' a fine line here when we're talkin' all these intersecting relationships, but it does slightly color the view of Jack's forthrightness with the man he loves. I believe this is exactly the way Annie intended it to appear. None of us is Saints, huh?

ps - Love Annie Proulx? - You bet! 
 

[FlwrChild]

No worries. It didn't come across as judgmental at all. 

We all see the characters in our own ways and I know that there are a lot of different angles from which to view them. I agree that Jack was not honest about his experiences with other men. I just don't think that indicates less devotion. I think he knew that Ennis wouldn't understand and the only way to explain it to him would be to admit his deepest feelings, something he also knew Ennis wasn't able to handle (just my impression).

As far as this passage in the story though, I think we see it very much the same way.

[chowhound]

Thanks to all who have so far responded. I thought it might be useful to explore this ambiguity a little further, so here goes:

First, my understanding that "himself" refers to Ennis, not Jack, is essentially a minor expansion of the original:

"'Jack, I swear...,' he said, although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and he himself[i.e. Ennis] was not the swearing kind."

The advantage, I think, of this reading is that it keeps the focus on Ennis at this critical moment. We know that Ennis has never been asked by Jack to swear anything, so in doing so now, is not fulfilling some promise he may have made to Jack in the past. We also know that the taciturn Ennis is not given to making solemn pronouncements or oaths. Even so, as Ennis contemplates the two shirts, his own now covering and protecting Jack's, he is so profoundly moved that, probably for the first time in his life, he offers Jack a solemn statement or pronouncement starting "Jack, I swear..."

I feel if "himself" refers to Jack we lose this concentration on Ennis and it is replaced by a not particularly relevant piece of information that Jack wasn't "the swearing kind". So what?

But it's a possible reading. To each his own choice. But undoubtedly a choice has to be made.

[brandedandrew]

I just thought Ennis finally did do something that Jack wanted from the beginning, a commitment to him.   Something Ennis always denied him,  never swearing to him, or to their relationship,  or even the next  year.   He just knew it would happen,  and it did.   Now with Jack gone, and  neither of them  being the swearing kind,  swore to him through those shirts,  he'll always have him with him.   Its funny how after we lose the person we love, we find the will to change just a little.  JMO.   

[jackster]

First, my understanding that "himself" refers to Ennis, not Jack, is essentially a minor expansion of the original:

"'Jack, I swear...,' he said, although Jack had never asked him to swear anything and he himself[i.e. Ennis] was not the swearing kind."

Dear CH

You’re gettin’ in pretty deep here, but it’s fun nonetheless. I’m afraid it will take a real English major to properly dissect the usage here, an’ I sure ain’t that. Gotta’ be sum out there though than can add an assist here. I think it’s all gonna come down to subject, verb, modifiers, and all that other deconstruction stuff that I sure didn’t pay enough (i.e. any) attention to when I oughtta’. But, knowing AP, I bet she sure as heck knew EXACTLY how she wanted this to read, it’s so critical she probably wrote an’ rewrote it dozens a times. I’ll go way out on a limb here - my dissection of it is that “Jack” is the subject of the sentence and therefore “was himself” refers to the subject of the sentence, Jack. For it to reference back to Ennis, it would, as you point out, need to read, “though Jack had never asked him to swear anything, and he was not the swearing kind”. Do I hear buzz saws?

[chowhound]

Hi Jackster,
   How are things? Maybe we should organize a vote!

[mimi]

Y'know its weird, coz i was just thinking about this when i stumbled across this thread :D

I distinctly remember Jack uttering VEEEERY softly, almost inaudibly, to Ennis "I swear...it's alright...i swear" on the SNIT.
Could it possibly have something to do with that? Jack comforted Ennis and swore to him that what he was doing was okay and that everything would be fine, so maybe Ennis felt that he had to somehow repay Jack for that by swearing something meaningful to him...Maybe what Ennis swore to Jack was a promise that he would never forget him, maybe an apology, maybe he was swearing himself to Jack - swearing that he would always be his. Maybe it was a mixture of all these things, but i suppose that this mystery and depth is what makes it such a memorable quote 

[lancecowboy]

Wow, what a treasure is this forum of thinking members asking intelligent questions.

I love the discussion here and all your insights.

First off, I thought "himself" referred to Jack at first, then thought of the possibility that it could also refer to Ennis, and then just dropped it, being overwhelmed by the implication of "I swear."

Secondly, I agree that "I swear" was a declaration of a commitment by Ennis, not only of love for Jack, but also to hold him in memory for eternity, and also to take his ashes to Brokeback Mountain...the postcard, like he wanted. To compensate for the one thing that he did not do for Jack when he asked, to share a sweet life. So, I think, Ennis wanted to spend eternity with Jack, mixing his own ashes with Jack's on Brokeback Mountain, one day.

Lastly, reading all your comments, it occurred to me, as Tony and Jackster suggested, Annie Proulx likely read her line and thought over and over how best to re-write it, and finally left it just as it is, a little ambiguous, because it conveys exactly what felt right for her, that,

1. Ennis was the laconic cowboy who was not the swearing kind, which Jack knew, so would never ask him to swear to an exclusive relationship, but simply assumed that it was. It's why Ennis got so angry when he thought Jack had been going to Mexico. Swearing or not, he didn't appreciate Jack fooling around.

2. Jack wasn't the kind who would swear much either, knowing it would not mean much without something to back it up. It's part of the rural pragmatic culture they both grew up with on opposite side of Wyoming. A man's word is good, or he's not a good man. When Ennis refused to share the sweet life with Jack, there was no more talking about swearing. They simply accepted each other as it was, two married men meeting a few times a year to do what came naturally. Talking only got in the way.

Out of all the non-swearing, it made Ennis's "I swear" all the more powerful.

Thanks y'all. This just made me appreciate Annie Proulx's writing all the more.

Time to go read the short story again. I have been thinking of watching the movie again, too. 

[jackster]

Great post LC. 
You're so right as long as they wus together, they didn't need to swear anything, they were livin' it. Maybe only now, with Jack's passing, did Ennis feel the only way he could now show Jack his commitment was by swearing (an oath) to him.

[brandedandrew]

This maybe a little over my head,  I have to admit I've been a "subject",  to a lot of verbage,  "Are you getting up?"   "Are you going to work?"   "Are you going to clean the kitchen?"   "Yes, I am lazy.", lol

Seriously,    I read these posts,  I'm not that organized in writing my thoughts, but they sure as heck got me thinking,  but here it goes, any way.   Jack never made Ennis swear to anything.  He wanted him,  in my view anyway,  to commit to something, but by his own will.   Jack let him off the hook after that  first summer,  he let him off the hook at the reunion,  he let him off the hook at the final meeting.   No commitment,  no swearing to anything.  We see what the lack of that commitment could do to a relationship.  Jacks cruising  in Mexico, and Ennis living an unfulfilled, unhappy  "hetero life", brought on by fear, and fuel by hook ups once a year.    That one sentence: "Jack, I swear--" he said,  thought Jack had never asked Ennis to swear anything was himself not the swearing kind.  To me this was the whole answer to what tore at them.    Did Jack know that Ennis was not the swearing kind?  He did.   Jack never asked him to swear to anything,  it had to be a total independent action,  I swear to you my life, I swear to you my love,  Ennis never did any of those things, at the time it wasn't in him.  Its kind of nice to think without declaring it,  it was ok, but to Jack it wasn't,  he wanted more,  always did,  but wanted Ennis to want it to of his own free will.  Like the men that they are.   

The irony is,  "Jack,  I swear",   love between men is fragile at best, and can be devastating to us if it goes wrong.   We have our "male pride",  our "independence",  the things we love about ourselves and in each other, fear of showing anything less to some of us is worse than death, in turn not letting our guard down,  letting go of the fear of rejection,  or the fear that we have love for another man,  we sometime loose what we wanted most.   

Ennis not a swearing man, sworn himself to Jack, and Jack comes back to him in his dreams.

MHO 

 

[daliah]

Ennis daughter came to him to inform about her wedding,they talked about love and wedding.From this point i thought that this swear means a wedding vow..means that "i will love you every moment till i die"


 

[FlwrChild]

That's another lovely interpretation of "I Swear." And perhaps "And I always did." 


Looking at it from a purely grammatical point of view, I think we have to acknowledge that AP was referring to Jack when she wrote "...was not himself the swearing kind." Because if you split the sentence into its two parts (what Ennis says and who he was addressing it to), you are left with: "...Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was not himself the swearing kind."


I do agree though that the description certainly fits both men, as neither was brought up to be particularly demonstrative or inclined to discuss their feelings. Which is why Jack's "Sometimes I miss you so much..." declaration carries such weight and why Ennis' heartfelt "Jack, I swear..." has such impact on both the story and our hearts.

[jackster]

. . . . Which is why Jack's "Sometimes I miss you so much..." declaration carries such weight and why Ennis' heartfelt "Jack, I swear..." has such impact on both the story and our hearts.