Topic: Ennis: Sending up a prayer of thanks

[MississaugaRed]

Hi, Jack_ME!

That was brilliantly summed up - comparing the shooting scenes with this "prayer of thanks" one as a way to illistrate their personalities.  It constantly amazes me how individual pieces of this film can be related to each other.  This is one example I would never have thought of, thank you!

As you say, there is no "fault", just individuals reacting as their natures dictate.  Which can lead to " what if's", had the knee-jeck reactions been controlled - or the coyote not been missed!

It's postings like these that keeps BBM fresh.  Just when you think you're explored all the implications to the prayer scene, you lead us back up the mountain.  Thanks!

[TJ]

Annie Proulx's Ennis Del Mar did not send up a prayer of thanks; but, the movie's Ennis did.

I don't have a problem with that scene; but, I am reminded that I have discovered lots of people pray silently because they were never taught to pray out loud. Some very masculine type guys don't want people to know that they do pray. I had a person "unofficially" living with me when I lived in public housing hi-rise apartment complex. The door to the balcony was a wide "patio door." I noticed that while Kaland was pacing in the narrow space, he seem to be talking. He did not smoke indoors and went out there to do it by his choice. When he came back in, I asked him if he had been praying and he said he had. I didn't ask him what it was about because I did not consider to be my business to know.

The on-screen Ennis more than likely was not even thinking about the harmonica when he was in deep thought while Jack was looking on. I am in agreement with some of the posters here.

Ennis' response seems to be have been said with him thinking to himself, "I don't want Jack to think that I have gone religious up here."

Ennis did not dislike Jack's harmonica playing anymore than he disliked eating beans. (Maybe OT here, but I wouldn't have been surprised that in their times together after the reunion in 1967, they bought Hormel Brand Spam to eat with their breakfast while camping.

[tpe]

The on-screen Ennis more than likely was not even thinking about the harmonica when he was in deep thought while Jack was looking on. I am in agreement with some of the posters here.

Ennis' response seems to be have been said with him thinking to himself, "I don't want Jack to think that I have gone religious up here."

Ennis did not dislike Jack's harmonica playing anymore than he disliked eating beans. (Maybe OT here, but I wouldn't have been surprised that in their times together after the reunion in 1967, they bought Hormel Brand Spam to eat with their breakfast while camping.

Yes, I do agree that the harmonica was not really what was on his mind.  I did feel that he was somehow praying -- being so thankful that he and Jack were back together again.

And your comment about the harmonica playing and eating beans rings true.  It is not so OOT, as -- in a beautiful sense -- the harmonica almost becomes a metaphor of his time spent with Jack on BBM.  This is reinforced in the screenplay where, in the scene where Ennis is late meeting Jack for their fishing trip, he offers Jack a paper bag of canned beans (barely seen and heard in the movie version).

harmonica and beans -- they signify Jack to Ennis, and Jack, after all, was what Ennis was most thankful for all along.

[MississaugaRed]

harmonica and beans -- they signify Jack to Ennis, and Jack, after all, was what Ennis was most thankful for all along.

Absolutely, Tpe, can't see a can a beans or hear a harmonica these days without thinking of Jack and Ennis.  Same goes for campfires.  Or rivers. etc.

And, of course, I wasn't implying that Ennis actually hated Jack's harmonica playing, it's their private inside joke, like bringing beans on their later camping trips.  Very sweet, the kind of things two long time lovers share, part of their secret world.

Back to the "prayer of thanks" topic ... Do you think there is any significance to Jack using the word "heaven" instead of just "sky" or leaving it at "up there"?  Then Ennis replying with "prayer"?  Regardless of the sad conclusion they are left with about the limits they have to place on seeing each other, reading all this today has made me think that both men felt their time together was sacred.  That being together in the wilderness was a spiritual as well as physical connection, and maybe their choice of words came subconsciously out of that. 

Not sure if that really has implications for our primary discussion on the missed chance for Ennis to open up, but maybe it would be an awkward transition, going from communing with the peace of the moment to verbalizing earthbound thoughts and emotions.  You'd be likely to stumble, "miss the coyote".     :-\

(may be way off base here ... more of a "stream of consciousness" thought brought on by previous observations.  if so, sorry!)

[TJ]

Back to the "prayer of thanks" topic ... Do you think there is any significance to Jack using the word "heaven" instead of just "sky" or leaving it at "up there"?  Then Ennis replying with "prayer"?  Regardless of the sad conclusion they are left with about the limits they have to place on seeing each other, reading all this today has made me think that both men felt their time together was sacred.  That being together in the wilderness was a spiritual as well as physical connection, and maybe their choice of words came subconsciously out of that. 

Not sure if that really has implications for our primary discussion on the missed chance for Ennis to open up, but maybe it would be an awkward transition, going from communing with the peace of the moment to verbalizing earthbound thoughts and emotions.  You'd be likely to stumble, "miss the coyote".     :-\

(may be way off base here ... more of a "stream of consciousness" thought brought on by previous observations.  if so, sorry!)

"Heaven" is "beyond the sky" in a theological sense. In the book, the only time that anything related to any religion is when Jack favors "Water-Walking Jesus" because his mother who had taught it to him believed in the Pentecost. "Believing in the Pentecost" is what every Christian does. But, the screenplay/movie version of the story made Jack's mother to be a Pentecostal  . . . and movie version had Alma and the girls attending Sunday School and church regularly. Ennis referred to those who went to that church as the "Fire and Brimstone Crowd." (The real Riverton does have a Pentecostal church, an Assembly of God.)

I think that Jack in his own spirit was able to discern that Ennis was actually having communication with "Heaven" and that is why he said that in the dialog. And, while Ennis did not say whom he was thanking in the "prayer," it could have been that he had his own relationship with the Creator.

In theological terms, the word translated as "holy," "sacred" or "consecrated" in the Bible, in either the Hebrew or the Greek original texts, also means something that has been set aside for a special purpose. I can get off into a tangental discussion here in regard to this but, there is a verse in one of the New Testament Epistles which says in words to this effect, "You were bought for a price; therefore glorify God in your bodies." Well, since sex is a gift from the Creator meant to be shared equally with a loving partner, I think that the guys sharing of themselves physically was also a divinely spiritual experience, too. Years ago, I mentioned something to that in effect in a discussion at church where most of those there were gays and lesbians.

The high mountains of the West has been called "God's Country." I have even seen western movies with those two words as part of the title. I has been a spiritual experience to watch eagles circuling up in the sky when I was lying on the ground and looking up.

[tpe]

Back to the "prayer of thanks" topic ... Do you think there is any significance to Jack using the word "heaven" instead of just "sky" or leaving it at "up there"?  Then Ennis replying with "prayer"?  Regardless of the sad conclusion they are left with about the limits they have to place on seeing each other, reading all this today has made me think that both men felt their time together was sacred.  That being together in the wilderness was a spiritual as well as physical connection, and maybe their choice of words came subconsciously out of that. 

Not sure if that really has implications for our primary discussion on the missed chance for Ennis to open up, but maybe it would be an awkward transition, going from communing with the peace of the moment to verbalizing earthbound thoughts and emotions.  You'd be likely to stumble, "miss the coyote".     :-\

(may be way off base here ... more of a "stream of consciousness" thought brought on by previous observations.  if so, sorry!)

MississaugaRed, your mentioning the use of the word 'heaven' brings tears to my eyes.

Do you agree with me that at that exact moment in the movie, Ennis and jack were at the apex of earthly happiness?

It surely must have been heaven for them.

Ennis adjusting his head, while looking at the stars -- and suddenly smiling that beatific smile.  In my heart, I know that at that point, all time was suspended for him.  He did not care of the past, or the future.  He was living the moment.  It was the perfect moment.

And Jack, gazing at Ennis.  Using the word 'Heaven' to express precisely where he felt he was at the moment.  How could it be anything else.  For Jack, it was the closest ever that he came to touching his dream.  Four years in the desert.  Four years of uncertainly and searching.  And then he knew at that very moment that his Ennis loved him still.

God be merciful that I should ever again come across such a moment of radiant happiness.

It is heaven.

 

[MississaugaRed]

MississaugaRed, your mentioning the use of the word 'heaven' brings tears to my eyes.

Do you agree with me that at that exact moment in the movie, Ennis and jack were at the apex of earthly happiness?

It surely must have been heaven for them.

Ennis adjusting his head, while looking at the stars -- and suddenly smiling that beatific smile.  In my heart, I know that at that point, all time was suspended for him.  He did not care of the past, or the future.  He was living the moment.  It was the perfect moment.

And Jack, gazing at Ennis.  Using the word 'Heaven' to express precisely where he felt he was at the moment.  How could it be anything else.  For Jack, it was the closest ever that he came to touching his dream.  Four years in the desert. Four years of uncertainly and searching.  And then he knew at that very moment that his Ennis loved him still.

God be merciful that I should ever again come across such a moment of radiant happiness.

It is heaven.

 

Oh, now it's your turn to bring tears to my eyes, Tpe.  "Four years in the desert", what a gently heartbreaking way to discribe those first four years apart.

And yes, I thnk I can agree with you about this being their apex of "earthly" happiness.  A rare, perfect moment.  Even though in flashback later what Jack remembers and longs for is that moment on BBM, being hugged by Ennis, I guess it's in this moment here that they are equal partners in loving and longing, can for the first time admit, wordlessly, that this is a connection  neither can disavow

I may have to send up a prayer of thanks myself for this one.  Thank you, Tpe.

[tpe]

And yes, I thnk I can agree with you about this being their apex of "earthly" happiness.  A rare, perfect moment.  Even though in flashback later what Jack remembers and longs for is that moment on BBM, being hugged by Ennis, I guess it's in this moment here that they are equal partners in loving and longing, can for the first time admit, wordlessly, that this is a connection  neither can disavow

MississaugaRed, somehow I knew you would bring up the dozy embrace.

I have always believed that the happiness there was not "earthly". 

In religious parlance, I think they call it "The State of Divine Grace".

I knew you understood.

[MississaugaRed]

Thanks, Tpe.     You constantly challenge, as do the others here;  I can only hope to keep up, at least part of the time.



Just as earlier Jack_ME made a connection from this scene to how both Jack and Ennis handled a rifle that first summer, you've taken us from here back to the dozy embrace.

It seems all roads lead to Brokeback. Another reason for a prayer of thanks.

We here can see Ennis's remark in a variety of ways after having had much time to ponder;  it's little wonder Jack's natural impulse to forge ahead full speed, as Jack_ME so rightly observed, might have forestalled more heartfelt revelations from Ennis.

(Oops - "Revelations" ... again with the religious reference, and completely unplanned  ... this must have been a heavenly encounter indeed.  :o  )

[NoReins]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that once Jack "missed the coyote" i.e. said "For what?"......he then realized what Ennis had really been saying, and so THEN after that realization (after he had "missed the coyote") tried to pick up on Ennis's original mood and thought. But it was too late. As so often in the film (think of the post Alma divorce), Jack reacts quickly and impulsively. And sometimes, he misses his mark because of that.

You know, Jack, I'd never really thought of it in that way - that it was Jack who caused Ennis to make a joke because he didn't give Ennis time to express what he was really thinking about. But now that you mention it, it does kind of make sense.

I wonder what Ennis would have said if he'd been given the time to get his thoughts together? Maybe one of the fanfic authors could come up with a little alternative here.....

[tpe]

Thanks for having patience with me MississaugaRed.

Jack knew who Ennis was thinking of at that moment.  Ennis knew who Jack was thinking of. 

Jack's question struck me as rhetorical.  It was a moment of connection between two who never really needed to say much to each other and express their feelings.

That is another beauty of this moment.  They speak in a language understandable on two levels. 

One level spoke comfort and perfect ease between the two of them.

The other level spoke the language of love. 

They were never that articulate when speaking the language of love.  And yet, it is there beneath the casual repartee.  And in that complete understanding, in spite of their inarticulateness, they were most eloquent.



 

[Jack_ME]

...snip...
You know, Jack, I'd never really thought of it in that way - that it was Jack who caused Ennis to make a joke because he didn't give Ennis time to express what he was really thinking about. But now that you mention it, it does kind of make sense.

I wonder what Ennis would have said if he'd been given the time to get his thoughts together? ...snip...

[/size][/color]
Exactly! NoReins, that's what I felt....Jack's response caused Ennis to defensively make a joke of it, and then to quickly  put away the serious feelings and thoughts he had been experiencing. And that's the wonder I had in the beginning too. How could it have been different for these two people, as real people, in that circumstance.

Thanks for comment NoReins!

Jack in Maine

[proulxfan]

...snip...
You know, Jack, I'd never really thought of it in that way - that it was Jack who caused Ennis to make a joke because he didn't give Ennis time to express what he was really thinking about. But now that you mention it, it does kind of make sense.

I wonder what Ennis would have said if he'd been given the time to get his thoughts together? ...snip...

[/size][/color]
Exactly! NoReins, that's what I felt....Jack's response caused Ennis to defensively make a joke of it, and then to quickly  put away the serious feelings and thoughts he had been experiencing. And that's the wonder I had in the beginning too. How could it have been different for these two people, as real people, in that circumstance.

Thanks for comment NoReins!

Jack in Maine

It is tantalizing to contemplate what might have happened if, instead of asking "For what?", Jack had just rested in the comfort of that silence in the wilderness, by the river's edge, in the glow of their campfire, and and allowed Ennis to expand on his prayer if and how he so chose. And perhaps I was a bit defensive on Jack's behalf in my initial response on this thread about two months back. Time and expansion have allowed me to more clearly see it is a question of possibilities-what if?-rather than expectations-he should have...

[ksxks]

...snip...

Just to clarify, as some seem to have responded as if I were and I'm not at all trying to fault Jack, meaning I'm not trying to say he did something wrong 'cuz after all, he just did what he did. That's part of his character which is also the sub-text of my comments.  I'm just focusing on the "what if...." based on what I saw as a missed opportunity when on one of the rare occasions Ennis had started to open up and express his feelings verbally. You here, and others before, use what happens AFTERWARD, to explain and interpret what happened first. Just for the sake of this discussion, I'm making a point which some might see as simply playing with words, but that's not what I'm intending to do.

Compare Jack's personality, his reaction, in this scene FROM THE FIRST OF IT, (Ennis staring up, Jack says....Ennis says...offering prayer of thanks...) to the short scene when Jack was the one up on the mountain tending the sheep, and he spied and shot at the coyote. If you recall that coyote scene, what you see is a guy who spies a coyote and instantly brings his rifle up and practically pulls the trigger before the gun has even stopped moving....and in fact, if he thought he was aiming, he didn't do a very good job, because not only did he not kill the coyote, he didn't even hit it. Missed by a mile, because his impulse was to act instantly, not carefully take aim, get a bead on the animal, and gently squeeze the trigger and kill it. Now think of Ennis when he shot the elk. Very slow, very deliberate, careful aim, no rush, and bullseye! Down comes the elk.

Now think of the campfire scene again and compare their respective behaviors.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that once Jack "missed the coyote" i.e. said "For what?"......he then realized what Ennis had really been saying, and so THEN after that realization (after he had "missed the coyote") tried to pick up on Ennis's original mood and thought. But it was too late. As so often in the film (think of the post Alma divorce), Jack reacts quickly and impulsively. And sometimes, he misses his mark because of that.

This is part of Jack's personality, and is one of the ways in which the two boys differ.

It's so wonderful to able to examine and dissect these screen characters to such a degree. I can't think of very many other films (off the top of my head none!) where the characters had such fully developed personalities that we can do this with their screen characters!

What a treasure we have in this film. And what a wonderful gift Annie Proulx gave the world with her story that inspired this film.

Jack in Maine


[/color]

I like your words, Jack; and I love this whole discussion.  And there is such a wealth of things to discuss about these characters and all those who created them.  This is a treasure, indeed, a gift, as you said.  Isn't it amazing how this has really got us good, seriously -- so many people moved in so many ways by this experience.  Who said it somewhere here...about the universe conspiring to bring all this together, huh?  And here we are to enrich the experience even more for all of us by sharing and discussing and writing and doing art and videos and acting out and just all of it.  And we're all kinds of people, drawn together for this.

This and similar threads in particular, because we get to talk about talking.  About communicating and how to or not to.

Okay, enough of that high-falutin' stuff, I'm goin' to go find someplace to talk about how damn sexy Ennis and Jack are together 

ks

[edgar]

Quoting Jack in ME:
"when Jack was the one up on the mountain tending the sheep, and he spied and shot at the coyote. If you recall that coyote scene, what you see is a guy who spies a coyote and instantly brings his rifle up and practically pulls the trigger before the gun has even stopped moving....and in fact, if he thought he was aiming, he didn't do a very good job, because not only did he not kill the coyote, he didn't even hit it. Missed by a mile, because his impulse was to act instantly, not carefully take aim, get a bead on the animal, and gently squeeze the trigger and kill it. Now think of Ennis when he shot the elk. Very slow, very deliberate, careful aim, no rush, and bullseye! Down comes the elk."

Thanks for bringing this up, Jack. In the story, Proulx uses the word "quicksilver" to describe Jack's personality. If Jack is quicksilver, Ennis is a rock. Or hard, red clay. Solid, sure, doesn't change.

Re: discussion about whether Jack's "quicksilver" interruption of Ennis caused him to back off a rare moment of expressiveness.... Can't help but think of the other thread, discussing Jack driving all the way to Wyoming when he learns of the divorce. Ennis had initiated the contact about the divorce. If Jack had just waited....waited for another postcard, [another phone call if you're in the short story].... would Ennis have been able to handle things better?

[tpe]

Thanks for bringing this up, Jack. In the story, Proulx uses the word "quicksilver" to describe Jack's personality. If Jack is quicksilver, Ennis is a rock. Or hard, red clay. Solid, sure, doesn't change.

Re: discussion about whether Jack's "quicksilver" interruption of Ennis caused him to back off a rare moment of expressiveness.... Can't help but think of the other thread, discussing Jack driving all the way to Wyoming when he learns of the divorce. Ennis had initiated the contact about the divorce. If Jack had just waited....waited for another postcard, [another phone call if you're in the short story].... would Ennis have been able to handle things better?

Yes, I agree that this scene of the 'prayer of thanks' is one where you can appreciate Gyllenhaal's quicksilver embodiment of the character of Jack Twist -- so different from the original persona as envisioned by Proulx.

We hear without difficulty the ethereal happiness and contentment in Jack's voice that beigns the scene.  We are on edge WITH him as he asks the suggestive question 'For what?'  We appreciate the spontanaiety in Jack's soft laughter upon hearing Ennis's retort about the harmonica.  THAT LAUGHTER: so natural and yet so pregnant with meaning -- we are without a doubt that Jack understood the true origin of Ennis's current happiness.  THAT LAUGHTER: so infectious that we cannot help but laugh with him deep inside.  It makes us so happy FOR BOTH OF THEM.  THAT LAUGHTER: it is indeed the non plus ultra of that quicksilver quality we have come to appreciate in Jake Gyllenhaal's acting.  As I had said in the Superstar thread, the acting is so subtle as to be entirely self effacing: hence, to be missed by less refined movie critics.

And finally, there is the entire sequence that begins with 'You know it can be like this...Just like this...Always...'.  In this entire scene, the voice reveals a character who now makes himself completely vulnerable out of pure love.  To follow Proulx's image, Jack has released the projectile that is soon to be shot down by Ennis for fear of the past.

And yet in that brief soaring moment when Jack proposes to Ennis that golden dream -- that dream of all dreams -- you cannot help but love him forever and ever -- eternally -- long after all the stars in that heavenly night are dead.

[MississaugaRed]

snip ...

And finally, there is the entire sequence that begins with 'You know it can be like this...Just like this...Always...'.  In this entire scene, the voice reveals a character who now makes himself completely vulnerable out of pure love.  To follow Proulx's image, Jack has released the projectile that is soon to be shot down by Ennis for fear of the past.

And yet in that brief soaring moment when Jack proposes to Ennis that golden dream -- that dream of all dreams -- you cannot help but love him forever and ever -- eternally -- long after all the stars in that heavenly night are dead.

Okay, tears now ...  :'(
tpe, I'll be first in line to buy that book you should be writing.  Such sweet words.

OT maybe, but love your decription of Gyllenhaal's acting, how his quicksliver quality was so well suited to Jack Twist.  BBM made me a huge fan.  But in BBM - just see Jack, not Jake.  He's THAT good.

[tpe]

Thanks MississaugaRed for understanding.

I was crying when I wrote that long last sentence.

 

[NoReins]

OT maybe, but love your decription of Gyllenhaal's acting, how his quicksliver quality was so well suited to Jack Twist.  BBM made me a huge fan.  But in BBM - just see Jack, not Jake.  He's THAT good.

It's funny, I didn't see that first time round - saw it with Heath/Ennis but not with Jake/Jack. Now that I've had the chance to watch it a few more times, though, I totally agree with you MissRed.

In all the plaudits for Brokeback Mountain, no one seems to ever mention the genius of the casting people in getting it so right.

Sorry, I know that was OT...

[tpe]

Just by this 'prayer of thanks' scene alone, I find it impossible to rate the casting of Ledger/Gyllenhaal as less than perfection.

What was SAG thinking?  They truly know not the meaning of Art.

[MississaugaRed]

Tpe, you're spot on, art must not have been the only point at SAG or the Academy.  Strange, huh?

Re: the "prayer of thanks" scene, there was another thing that recently caught my eye, wondered if anyone else as already noticed this.  It relates back to other scenes as well but struck me as particularly telling in this one.

When Ennis is lying back looking up at the stars, both he and Jack have their hats off.  They have that brief sweet moment about heaven and prayers, where things may or may not have been left unsaid.  But as soon as Jack starts laying out his dream of them setting up a place together, Ennis sits up and immediately slips his hat back on.  Then he starts giving Jack all the reasons why his dream is not going to happen.

Watching Ennis slip that hat back on his head reminds me of a soldier slipping on a piece of armour.  Bare headed he's vulnerable, hat on and he feels protected.  It's been said before that both men use their hats to good advantage, and that Ennis often hides in his.  I'm starting to think it's more than that.

FNIT - sleeping, both hats off, they are open to each other and become intimate.

SNIT - when Ennis gets up the courage to go to Jack, he removes his hat, but goes into the tent still holding it in front of him, like a shield.  It's Jack who gently tugs it out of his hand, a gesture that might mean "open up to me, you don't need to hide yourself from me, I'll keep you safe".

Reunion Kiss - Ennis comes to Jack bareheaded - and knocks Jack's hat off him before kissing him. Same message, maybe - "open up to me"?

Last camping trip - sitting around the fire, talking, telling some half truths, hats on; sleeping together, cuddling with hats off; next day recriminations, hats on because the truths are bitter ones and they both feel the need for protection (?).

Maybe I'm stretching the idea too far, but it's a pattern I see often in them.

So back to the "prayer";  They are both open and in tune to begin, and this is where some see the potential for Ennis to have opened up more if he'd had a few seconds extra of silence to gather his courage maybe.  But as soon as that hat goes on, Ennis is guarded, no longer as accessible.  Jack, though, is still hatless, i.e. vulnerable, and we see his hurt as his dreams are shot down.

So re hats ... "you don't think I'm too fast, do you?  Maybe I should put the brakes on??" (misquote, but hey, I tried)

[NoReins]

Tpe, you're spot on, art must not have been the only point at SAG or the Academy.  Strange, huh?

Re: the "prayer of thanks" scene, there was another thing that recently caught my eye, wondered if anyone else as already noticed this.  It relates back to other scenes as well but struck me as particularly telling in this one.

When Ennis is lying back looking up at the stars, both he and Jack have their hats off.  They have that brief sweet moment about heaven and prayers, where things may or may not have been left unsaid.  But as soon as Jack starts laying out his dream of them setting up a place together, Ennis sits up and immediately slips his hat back on.  Then he starts giving Jack all the reasons why his dream is not going to happen.

Watching Ennis slip that hat back on his head reminds me of a soldier slipping on a piece of armour.  Bare headed he's vulnerable, hat on and he feels protected.  It's been said before that both men use their hats to good advantage, and that Ennis often hides in his.  I'm starting to think it's more than that.

FNIT - sleeping, both hats off, they are open to each other and become intimate.

SNIT - when Ennis gets up the courage to go to Jack, he removes his hat, but goes into the tent still holding it in front of him, like a shield.  It's Jack who gently tugs it out of his hand, a gesture that might mean "open up to me, you don't need to hide yourself from me, I'll keep you safe".

Reunion Kiss - Ennis comes to Jack bareheaded - and knocks Jack's hat off him before kissing him. Same message, maybe - "open up to me"?

Last camping trip - sitting around the fire, talking, telling some half truths, hats on; sleeping together, cuddling with hats off; next day recriminations, hats on because the truths are bitter ones and they both feel the need for protection (?).

Maybe I'm stretching the idea too far, but it's a pattern I see often in them.

So back to the "prayer";  They are both open and in tune to begin, and this is where some see the potential for Ennis to have opened up more if he'd had a few seconds extra of silence to gather his courage maybe.  But as soon as that hat goes on, Ennis is guarded, no longer as accessible.  Jack, though, is still hatless, i.e. vulnerable, and we see his hurt as his dreams are shot down.

So re hats ... "you don't think I'm too fast, do you?  Maybe I should put the brakes on??" (misquote, but hey, I tried)

MissRed - I think that just may be the best post I've read on here. It's so obvious when you lay it all out, but I haven't seen it discussed in any other threads so I'm guessing the significance of the hats had been lost on us all. No reins (required) on this one - I think you're absolutely right. I always wondered about Ennis putting his hat back on before he shot Jack's dreams down in flames, but I'd never tied it into any other scenes or worked out why, so thank you so much for sharing your ideas here

And now I just want to go home and watch the whole damn thing again so I can see all these "hat moments"...

[NoReins]

Oh, and as a p.s. - maybe you should start a new thread about the hats on/hats off moments before we get told off for being off topic!

[MississaugaRed]

Cool, NoReins - watch it for both of us as I won't "yet have the opportunity" this weekend, let us know if there are more .. you'll like find contradictory ones too, but it's the contrasts and contradictions that keep us coming back to BBM anyway.  Cheers.

[tpe]

Tpe, you're spot on, art must not have been the only point at SAG or the Academy.  Strange, huh?

Re: the "prayer of thanks" scene, there was another thing that recently caught my eye, wondered if anyone else as already noticed this.  It relates back to other scenes as well but struck me as particularly telling in this one.

When Ennis is lying back looking up at the stars, both he and Jack have their hats off.  They have that brief sweet moment about heaven and prayers, where things may or may not have been left unsaid.  But as soon as Jack starts laying out his dream of them setting up a place together, Ennis sits up and immediately slips his hat back on.  Then he starts giving Jack all the reasons why his dream is not going to happen.

Watching Ennis slip that hat back on his head reminds me of a soldier slipping on a piece of armour.  Bare headed he's vulnerable, hat on and he feels protected.  It's been said before that both men use their hats to good advantage, and that Ennis often hides in his.  I'm starting to think it's more than that.

FNIT - sleeping, both hats off, they are open to each other and become intimate.

SNIT - when Ennis gets up the courage to go to Jack, he removes his hat, but goes into the tent still holding it in front of him, like a shield.  It's Jack who gently tugs it out of his hand, a gesture that might mean "open up to me, you don't need to hide yourself from me, I'll keep you safe".

Reunion Kiss - Ennis comes to Jack bareheaded - and knocks Jack's hat off him before kissing him. Same message, maybe - "open up to me"?

Last camping trip - sitting around the fire, talking, telling some half truths, hats on; sleeping together, cuddling with hats off; next day recriminations, hats on because the truths are bitter ones and they both feel the need for protection (?).

Maybe I'm stretching the idea too far, but it's a pattern I see often in them.

So back to the "prayer";  They are both open and in tune to begin, and this is where some see the potential for Ennis to have opened up more if he'd had a few seconds extra of silence to gather his courage maybe.  But as soon as that hat goes on, Ennis is guarded, no longer as accessible.  Jack, though, is still hatless, i.e. vulnerable, and we see his hurt as his dreams are shot down.

So re hats ... "you don't think I'm too fast, do you?  Maybe I should put the brakes on??" (misquote, but hey, I tried)

MissRed - I think that just may be the best post I've read on here. It's so obvious when you lay it all out, but I haven't seen it discussed in any other threads so I'm guessing the significance of the hats had been lost on us all. No reins (required) on this one - I think you're absolutely right. I always wondered about Ennis putting his hat back on before he shot Jack's dreams down in flames, but I'd never tied it into any other scenes or worked out why, so thank you so much for sharing your ideas here

And now I just want to go home and watch the whole damn thing again so I can see all these "hat moments"...

I agree with NoReins.  This is indeed a beautiful post that ties a lot of scenes on an emotional level. 

In the scene concerning Jack's dream, Ennis does indeed put on the hat the moment he starts saying "It ain't gonna be that way."  And of course, at the end of the scene, Jack physically takes hold of Ennis, as if to reclaim him from 'under the hat'. 

I do remember a thread or threads that deal specifically with hat colors and how hats are used in the movie, although I am not so sure if they ever tied together all these emotions the way the above post does.

It is not totally off topic.  The 'prayer of thanks' is a high point from which Ennis rapidly descends, as witnessed by the succeeding scene where he recalls  Earl and Rich.  Observe that throughout these 2 scenes, Jack remains bareheaded.  He makes himself vulnerable all throughout.  It is his vulnerability that leads him to touch Ennis in the end.  The 'prayer of thanks' brings him to a high point where he feels secure with his dream of love.  He remains bareheaded -- vulnerable.  He is not to descend so easily.

Finally, although Ennis becomes defensive in this scene when Jack talks about his dream, we note that ENNIS MOVES CLOSER TO JACK nonetheless.  He is involuntarily seeking refuge in the love they both share.  He has not repudiated that love.  It is the dream of a shared life that he doubts and fears.  You see Ennis most secure in the 'prayer of thanks' scene.  It is so moving to see him instinctively seeking refuge in Jack's loving proximity.

[FlwrChild]

Oh my God, you guys are amazing! Jack_ME, great thread. And so many wonderful posts. Just to make sure I was clear in my impressions, I popped the DVD in to watch this scene again (hey, you gotta do what you gotta do ). I had a bunch of arguments prepared to support my position on whether or not Jack's response to Ennis' "prayer of thanks" cut off his ability to open up to Jack about his feelings. But I've thrown them all out the window with this fresh viewing. Here's what I'm left with: 1. I definitely don't think Jack's "For what?" was cavalier (never did actually). But I also wonder if we may not be giving these boys enough credit. I would initially have gone along with the idea that two abused, uneducated 1960s ranch hands wouldn't be terribly articulate or skilled in communicating. But now I think maybe they were communicating just fine. One thing a lot of us have noticed before is that they don't just have romantic love - they're best friends. They're more comfortable with each other than with anyone else in their lives. I think it's possible that Jack understands what Ennis is thankful for. It's a natural instinct to say "What for?" to let the other person elaborate. And I don't think Ennis' response means he's closing off emotionally by making a joke (just as Jack's reaction doesn't seem to indicate disappointment). It wasn't to mask an uncomfortable moment. They look Comfortable together (and the expression on Ennis' face after the harmonica comment is soo sweet)! I think maybe when Jack immediately follows that up with "It could be like this, just like this, always", he's referring to all of that, not just romance but "we could be together - we could have this level of intimacy and comfort that we only have with each other" all the time.
And 2. I have to say I think that Ennis' comment about "this thing" grabbing hold of them (which he was afraid he wouldn't be able to control around other people) shows just how deep his fears went. "Two guys living together - no way". That belief was too deeply entrenched for him to get past, no matter what Jack's response might have been to his "prayer of thanks". On a more positive note, though, sad as it may all be, I think his "Ain't no reins on this one" remark Is his way of expressing his feelings to Jack. And Jack's tender touch to his face is his acknowledging of this and reciprocating.
I jotted these thoughts down on my way to a meeting and you all have since added so much but I still wanted to share that take with you. I already feel like I want to look at it again in light of all your wonderful comments! Unfortunately off to another appointment. I can't wait to see what's here when I get back!

You know, I really feel like I just keep falling in love with them all over again every day!

[Patriot1]

Tpe, you're spot on, art must not have been the only point at SAG or the Academy.  Strange, huh?

Re: the "prayer of thanks" scene, there was another thing that recently caught my eye, wondered if anyone else as already noticed this.  It relates back to other scenes as well but struck me as particularly telling in this one.

When Ennis is lying back looking up at the stars, both he and Jack have their hats off.  They have that brief sweet moment about heaven and prayers, where things may or may not have been left unsaid.  But as soon as Jack starts laying out his dream of them setting up a place together, Ennis sits up and immediately slips his hat back on.  Then he starts giving Jack all the reasons why his dream is not going to happen.

Watching Ennis slip that hat back on his head reminds me of a soldier slipping on a piece of armour.  Bare headed he's vulnerable, hat on and he feels protected.  It's been said before that both men use their hats to good advantage, and that Ennis often hides in his.  I'm starting to think it's more than that.

FNIT - sleeping, both hats off, they are open to each other and become intimate.

SNIT - when Ennis gets up the courage to go to Jack, he removes his hat, but goes into the tent still holding it in front of him, like a shield.  It's Jack who gently tugs it out of his hand, a gesture that might mean "open up to me, you don't need to hide yourself from me, I'll keep you safe".

Reunion Kiss - Ennis comes to Jack bareheaded - and knocks Jack's hat off him before kissing him. Same message, maybe - "open up to me"?

Last camping trip - sitting around the fire, talking, telling some half truths, hats on; sleeping together, cuddling with hats off; next day recriminations, hats on because the truths are bitter ones and they both feel the need for protection (?).

Maybe I'm stretching the idea too far, but it's a pattern I see often in them.

So back to the "prayer";  They are both open and in tune to begin, and this is where some see the potential for Ennis to have opened up more if he'd had a few seconds extra of silence to gather his courage maybe.  But as soon as that hat goes on, Ennis is guarded, no longer as accessible.  Jack, though, is still hatless, i.e. vulnerable, and we see his hurt as his dreams are shot down.

So re hats ... "you don't think I'm too fast, do you?  Maybe I should put the brakes on??" (misquote, but hey, I tried)

Ladies, ladies, aren't we going just a little too far in this analysis?  Don't you think there are practicle reasons for having hats off? 

When a man wears a brimmed hat and he lays down, he removes his hat because not doing so will fold the brim in the back up. Nothing more complicated than that.

If a man takes a nap he might take the hat off or to keep the bright light out of his eyes he may tilt the hat down over his eye so the brim isn't sticking into the log or whatever he is resting his head against, and to keep the light out of his eyes.

But, as in the first tent scene, they were sleeping.  When you go to sleep you don't wear your hat to bed.

The second night in the tent Ennis definitely took his hat off before getting to the tent.  There was an entire discussion about this and it was decided that Ennis was coming to Jack "hat in hand."  Jack takes the hat and sets it aside.  Don't need a hat to kiss and later make love do we?

The reunion kiss, did you see how they were kissing, face to face.  If Jack had his hat on the brim of his hat would have been in Ennis' face.  The hat had to go, and seeing it was Ennis that was pushing Jack into a corner out of sight and Jack had no idea what was about to happen, Ennis knocked it off of Jack's head to get it out of the way.

Last camping trip the same thing.  You don't go to sleep with your hat on.

And as for Ennis laying down looking up at the stars, well, he was laying down. That is why he had his hat off.  As soon as he got up the hat went on. 

Isn't it possible you are all just over analyzing this just a bit?

 

[tpe]

Oh my God, you guys are amazing! Jack_ME, great thread. And so many wonderful posts. Just to make sure I was clear in my impressions, I popped the DVD in to watch this scene again (hey, you gotta do what you gotta do ). I had a bunch of arguments prepared to support my position on whether or not Jack's response to Ennis' "prayer of thanks" cut off his ability to open up to Jack about his feelings. But I've thrown them all out the window with this fresh viewing. Here's what I'm left with: 1. I definitely don't think Jack's "For what?" was cavalier (never did actually). But I also wonder if we may not be giving these boys enough credit. I would initially have gone along with the idea that two abused, uneducated 1960s ranch hands wouldn't be terribly articulate or skilled in communicating. But now I think maybe they were communicating just fine. One thing a lot of us have noticed before is that they don't just have romantic love - they're best friends. They're more comfortable with each other than with anyone else in their lives. I think it's possible that Jack understands what Ennis is thankful for. It's a natural instinct to say "What for?" to let the other person elaborate. And I don't think Ennis' response means he's closing off emotionally by making a joke (just as Jack's reaction doesn't seem to indicate disappointment). It wasn't to mask an uncomfortable moment. They look Comfortable together (and the expression on Ennis' face after the harmonica comment is soo sweet)! I think maybe when Jack immediately follows that up with "It could be like this, just like this, always", he's referring to all of that, not just romance but "we could be together - we could have this level of intimacy and comfort that we only have with each other" all the time.
And 2. I have to say I think that Ennis' comment about "this thing" grabbing hold of them (which he was afraid he wouldn't be able to control around other people) shows just how deep his fears went. "Two guys living together - no way". That belief was too deeply entrenched for him to get past, no matter what Jack's response might have been to his "prayer of thanks". On a more positive note, though, sad as it may all be, I think his "Ain't no reins on this one" remark Is his way of expressing his feelings to Jack. And Jack's tender touch to his face is his acknowledging of this and reciprocating.
I jotted these thoughts down on my way to a meeting and you all have since added so much but I still wanted to share that take with you. I already feel like I want to look at it again in light of all your wonderful comments! Unfortunately off to another appointment. I can't wait to see what's here when I get back!

You know, I really feel like I just keep falling in love with them all over again every day!

Thank you FlwrChild.  You brought me to tears once more.

Yes, it is a love strengthened by a deep friendship and understanding of what they share and what they hold dear in each other.  And this is why they are indeed much more articulate in that wordless repartee that only such a love can give voice to.

What can be more eloquent than the 'prayer of thanks'?  I do think both of them knew the true meaning of the playful words exchanged (and I do contend that they were playful).  And you are right.  'You know it can be like this...Just like this...Always...' is an affirmation that shows that both knew that at that very moment of being together again, they are truly dead to the world, and the world is transformed into each other.

There is so much poetry in this scene.  There is so much pathos on what it means to dream and to struggle contra mundum. 

What can be more eloquent than this scene?  It is the brief unmitigated happiness of the moment that embodies the very meaning of Carpe Diem. 

It is a moment of pure, unadulterated grace.

[tpe]

Isn't it possible you are all just over analyzing this just a bit?

 

I am not sure, personally, Patriot1.

Honestly, with tears in my eyes just know, I am sure I am being more emotional than analytical at the moment.

I guess we tend to see symbolism where it is most meaningful to us.   I apologize for this, but the vision becomes a bit too personal for me to rationaize it so deep inside.

[MississaugaRed]

snip ...


Isn't it possible you are all just over analyzing this just a bit?

 

Well, gosh, Patriot1, isn't overanalzing the point?  Otherwise there wouldn't be over 100,000 posts on ennisjack!

Being practical would mean just watching the film and moving on.  Just can't be that practical, sorry!