Topic: Did Ennis know how violent John was to Jack, physically and psychologically?

[@loki6783]

I wonder if Jack ever told Ennis what his father has done to him.
John was so cruel, violent and humiliating towards Jack. 
I mean, in the SS he hit him with a belt and peed on him. Jack was only a child. This is a trauma, a big one. And it lived inside Jack's heart, even when he was with Ennis.
He was traumatized: in fact, he was not scared by pain...rodeo, sex as bottom, are fitting exampes: some may say he was brave, I say he did not scare easily because he grew up dealing with a deep fear of that monster father he had.
I hate so much this happened to him.
Maybe, in some way, being loved by Ennis also gave him back some fatherly bond he had never experienced. IMO, Ennis always seems more mature than him.
I think Ennis did not know Jack was a victim of abuse. I think Jack was too ashamed to really speak about it with him. Ennis may have interpreted it as weakness. Jack did not want to appear weak in Ennis' eyes.
However, I wonder how would Ennis react if he knew?
Would he have behaved differently towards Jack, if he knew?
I don't mean he had to feel pity for him or be compassionate, but, maybe, understanding that Jack was abused as a child may have helped Ennis understanding Jack's deep need for love and his requests for being together.

[LuvJackNasty]

Hi Loki and 

In the short story as Ennis is making his way up to Jack's room, he recalls the story Jack told him about the bathroom incident with his father. In the movie & SS Ennis shares the story of Rich and Earl. Both men were traumatized by their fathers in their formative years. I think that Jack's early years and his treatment by his father may have made him cling to Ennis a little more. That's not to imply that he was "clingy" or even needy but rather he felt love and he was going to fight for it.

Ennis, despite being shown what happened to Earl, was still able to give in to his feelings for Jack. Sadly he was only able to be free while they were secluded away. I don't believe that Jack wanted them to hold hands in public or announce their love to the world but Ennis was fearful of even ranching up together.

I think Ennis loved Jack and there was a part of him that would have run away to ranch up with Jack in a second. Sadly that was in direct conflict to the "lesson" his father taught him as a young boy. IMO, fear was stronger than love. I don't think it was necessarily fear for himself but rather something happening to Jack. That is one layer of the tragedy in this story- no matter which version you believe- murder or accident (I believe he was murdered)-Ennis' fear of losing Jack came to fruition & Jack died alone on a back road. I think Jack's death made him truly accept that it was love that he felt for Jack and that's what allowed him to go to Lightning Flat- outing himself be damned- to try to honor Jack's wish.

[@loki6783]

Hi
Thanks for your answer.

I red the SS a long time ago and I did not remember that Jack narrates the episode of his father urinating on him to Ennis. Thanks for shedding light on it.

I am, shamelessy, a Jack's girl and I have some issues with Ennis...so...

The fact that Ennis knew of that abuse and, anyway, kept on behaving like that to Jack (rejecting his love) makes me even more sad. He knew Jack was emotionally broken...and he broke him even more. John humiliated Jack to the point he had surely a low self esteem. By sending him away in the after divorce scene Ennis only hurts and humiliates Jack more: he makes him believe he is worth nothing and that the only thing he can do to have physical connection is paying for sex.

He is also psychologically violent after FNIT when he refuses to even say a word to Jack after they had sex. Ennis was the one penetrating. Sorry if I am graphic but he orgasmed in Jack's body after having taken him roughly. He does not even think about the possibility that maybe he hurt Jack. Maybe Jack is hurt. Maybe he is bleeding. Ennis is shocked, ok... but they are in that thing together and he only find courage to talk to him afterwards...holding a gun to feel strong. Jack is brave as only people who have known violence too well are. He just lays there and speaks as naturally as he can. Not knowing what Ennis will do. I think Jack considered the idea that Ennis may have wanted to beat him or worst.

Moreover, in the final confortation scene, Ennis says that he can kill Jack for possessiveness and that's so sick because he only claims him as his for a matter of possession, like Jack is an object. Not because he returns his love. That make Jack snap...and makes me sick and sad.

I wonder if he ever noticed belt scars on jack's lovely skin. I want to think he kissed them.

And I share with you the idea that Ennis was traumatized too by his father. However Ennis father took him to see a very dramatic and terrible situation (Earl s corpse) but did not hurt him directly and physically in the same cruel way John did to Jack.

I also think Ennio should have been more sensitive and understanding of jack s abusive past and becoming more caring and protective... sadly he did not. He knew all along and... it was ok for him if a man urinated on Jack when he was a child. Maybe it was the mindset of the 60s-70s...I really don't understand. If it happened to my lover it would have affected me everyday to be a better person and partner.

[tpe]

I think it was in Jack's nature to have shared many things about his childhood with Ennis. After all, he was quite open to his parents and to Ennis about his desire to bring Ennis to his home and help run the ranch. It would have been odd if he didn't give Ennis a background into a world he wanted to bring him in.