Author Topic: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack  (Read 100753 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #120 on: Feb 20, 2009, 09:18 AM »
I'm almost completely sure about this.It was a mixture of contradictory feelings that made an explosion inside him.


It was something more complex than just sadness.  Plain tears would not have done it justice...


Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #121 on: Mar 25, 2009, 10:05 PM »
Heath portrayed the inner turmoil perfectly.  He knew his Ennis through & through. :c)

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #122 on: Mar 26, 2009, 08:04 AM »
I would even say that he added depth to the character of Ennis, as conceived by Proulx.  He didn't have to create it from scratch, but he added more to it than was required of him.    In this scene, we see an excellent interpretation, wherein he inhabits pain like a shirt or a piece of clothing.


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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #123 on: Mar 26, 2009, 08:56 AM »
Heath portrayed the inner turmoil perfectly.  He knew his Ennis through & through. :c)

This is what Ang Lee said about heath and that scene:

Ang Lee Remembers Heath Ledger
by Leilani Labong


What is your favorite memory of him?
It also happens to be one of my favorite shots of my career: his “barfing” scene in Brokeback, when he was hitting the wall with his fists. We were on the third take, his fists were bleeding, he’d literally spilled all his guts, and something in the background struck me as being perfect. I think it was the clouds. I wanted to do another take, but Heath was totally exhausted. My producer said, “That’s bullshit. The actor has had enough.” But the clouds were perfect! We did another take, and after it was over, Heath said, “Wow. That felt good.”

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #124 on: Mar 26, 2009, 10:54 AM »
This is what Ang Lee said about heath and that scene:

Ang Lee Remembers Heath Ledger
by Leilani Labong


What is your favorite memory of him?
It also happens to be one of my favorite shots of my career: his “barfing” scene in Brokeback, when he was hitting the wall with his fists. We were on the third take, his fists were bleeding, he’d literally spilled all his guts, and something in the background struck me as being perfect. I think it was the clouds. I wanted to do another take, but Heath was totally exhausted. My producer said, “That’s bullshit. The actor has had enough.” But the clouds were perfect! We did another take, and after it was over, Heath said, “Wow. That felt good.”

This is only a proof that Heath was a superb actor,not only for his acting's skills,but because he was very perfectionist in all he did.He knew very well how to put himself into his characters shoes,sweating for their skins,feeling as his their anguishes and sorrows.That's why this scene has so much straight and it's so believable;because he could understand perfectly what was happenning by Ennis mind in that very moment.A complex lot of feelings,sometimes contradictory among them,but always with LOVE in the horizon.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #125 on: Mar 27, 2009, 08:16 AM »
Thanks loreen for sharing this.  What a wonderful insight into this intense scene!

Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #126 on: Apr 22, 2009, 04:07 PM »
This is what Ang Lee said about heath and that scene:

Ang Lee Remembers Heath Ledger
by Leilani Labong


What is your favorite memory of him?
It also happens to be one of my favorite shots of my career: his “barfing” scene in Brokeback, when he was hitting the wall with his fists. We were on the third take, his fists were bleeding, he’d literally spilled all his guts, and something in the background struck me as being perfect. I think it was the clouds. I wanted to do another take, but Heath was totally exhausted. My producer said, “That’s bullshit. The actor has had enough.” But the clouds were perfect! We did another take, and after it was over, Heath said, “Wow. That felt good.”



Thanks so much for this Loreen!  Where did you find this interview w/ Ang?  I'd like to see all of it!

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #127 on: Apr 23, 2009, 03:51 PM »
Here is the original article, atalley:

http://www.7x7.com/content/e/ang-lee-remembers-heath-ledger

The alley scene is described in the answer to the last question.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline jedibarrister

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #128 on: Jul 08, 2009, 08:41 PM »
To make it even sadder, Ennis knew that Jack would be at his parents place in Lightning Flat for several weeks. Jack had made sure Ennis knew it. Why didn't he get in his truck and get over there? At 19, out of a job, you bet I would have been over. Talk about being messed up.

Remember it took him a year to realize it wasn't his lunch making his guts hurt like that.  Ennis may be a lot of things....sharpest knife in the drawer isn't one of them.

Quote
Wouldn't it have been fantastic if Jack and decided to drive back to Ennis and found him collapsed in the alleyway, and he could have taken him in his arms, and quietly rocked him and loved him forever.

And a fanfic is born.  In the story, they drive off in different directions.  In the movie, they take off in the same direction.  I think dramatically, it worked better in the story b/c if they were going in the same direction, why wouldn't Jack give Ennis a ride?  And clearly, these two have never gone in the same direction after that summer....

Offline hpv

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #129 on: Jul 09, 2009, 01:33 AM »
This is what Ang Lee said about heath and that scene:

Ang Lee Remembers Heath Ledger
by Leilani Labong

 “The actor has had enough.” But the clouds were perfect! We did another take, and after it was over, Heath said, “Wow. That felt good.

OMG!!!that remark  so perfectly fits  Heath....   (:) 
"What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close,the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."
"I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."

Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #130 on: Jul 09, 2009, 01:46 AM »
. . .  In the story, they drive off in different directions.  In the movie, they take off in the same direction.  I think dramatically, it worked better in the story b/c if they were going in the same direction, why wouldn't Jack give Ennis a ride? . . .

Have to say I think one ways works really well in written form, while the other works equally well in graphic form. Plus it has given us one the most memorable scenes in moviedom, Jack's rearview mirror sight of a slightly bowlegged Ennis walking down the street all alone with his flour sack of worldly goods over his shoulder. And of course the heartbreak Jack felt in seeing this.

The reintroduction of the "Ennis in the rearview mirror" effect (the first being in Aguirre's parking lot when Jack's shavin') is a pure stroke of movie genius to me. It would seem to be a pure Ang Lee motif as it is not included or described thus in the filmscripts. Jack's view of Ennis, the mirrored view, a man reverse - it would have been very difficult to put this effect into words (even for Annie), but Ang's genius was able to capture the idea of this image simply and profoundly, twice. MHO.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #131 on: Jul 09, 2009, 02:11 AM »
Have to say I think one ways works really well in written form, while the other works equally well in graphic form. Plus it has given us one the most memorable scenes in moviedom, Jack's rearview mirror sight of a slightly bowlegged Ennis walking down the street all alone with his flour sack of worldly goods over his shoulder. And of course the heartbreak Jack felt in seeing this.

The reintroduction of the "Ennis in the rearview mirror" effect (the first being in Aguirre's parking lot when Jack's shavin') is a pure stroke of movie genius to me. It would seem to be a pure Ang Lee motif as it is not included or described thus in the filmscripts. Jack's view of Ennis, the mirrored view, a man reverse - it would have been very difficult to put this effect into words (even for Annie), but Ang's genius was able to capture the idea of this image simply and profoundly, twice. MHO.

Interesting points, guys. I never thought about the nuance of this scene. Since you mentioned it, I can see the genius, Jackster. I also see a difference in the book vs movie interpretation of Ennis.

The book describes Ennis as bigger than life, faster than average, strong and tough. The movie, through Heath's genius as well as Ang Lee's, portrarys Ennis as all that but also vulnerable and a little kid in a big man's body.

The rear view mirror bit is genius, I concur, because it shows "object is smaller than they are" and also captures the man in a little circle, detached from reality, as if Ennis is contained, caged, not free to do as he wishes, going down a long stretch of road, with no choices, no where to go.

I wonder about the choice of switching directions, instead of going opposite ways, watching Ennis coming at him from behind, why didn't Jack turn around and offer him a lift? It's an obvious question that must have crossed everyone's mind. Perhaps that's why Ang Lee introduced the switch, to trigger that question, to show the strain between the two cowboys, as alienated by the fist fight, to the point of no return. Coming down the mountain, Jack watched Ennis spitting in anger or whatever. They stooped silently while Joe counted the sheep and put them down. They were at their lowest point. The little exchange at the truck was also strained, but not enough apparently for Ang Lee. The rear-view mirror scene brought tears for me during the earliest viewings, and no doubt, my next viewing after so many months.

The drama of watching the tiny approaching Ennis getting smaller, I think, is more intense when the "lost opportunity" of not getting a lift is compounded with the "lost opportunity" of a life time.

Just my two bits. Thanks for the new ideas, Jackster, jedibarrister. May the force be with you.  :t)
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #132 on: Jul 09, 2009, 06:30 AM »
Have to say I think one ways works really well in written form, while the other works equally well in graphic form. Plus it has given us one the most memorable scenes in moviedom, Jack's rearview mirror sight of a slightly bowlegged Ennis walking down the street all alone with his flour sack of worldly goods over his shoulder. And of course the heartbreak Jack felt in seeing this.

The reintroduction of the "Ennis in the rearview mirror" effect (the first being in Aguirre's parking lot when Jack's shavin') is a pure stroke of movie genius to me. It would seem to be a pure Ang Lee motif as it is not included or described thus in the filmscripts. Jack's view of Ennis, the mirrored view, a man reverse - it would have been very difficult to put this effect into words (even for Annie), but Ang's genius was able to capture the idea of this image simply and profoundly, twice. MHO.

I love the way you say this, jackster. 

Some time ago, I chanced to read a poem that perfectly captures the moment:

http://www.alcoholicpoet.com/2006/03/rear-view-mirror.html

...

The phantom of your last pause guards the entrance now.

And I look back from there.  Every word a ghost.
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2009, 06:33 AM by tpe »

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #133 on: Jul 09, 2009, 11:56 AM »
I love the way you say this, lance. 

Some time ago, I chanced to read a poem that perfectly captures the moment:

http://www.alcoholicpoet.com/2006/03/rear-view-mirror.html

...

The phantom of your last pause guards the entrance now.

And I look back from there.  Every word a ghost.


You quoted Jackster so perhaps you meant Jack not Lance.  :)

I like the poem you quoted, and especially this bit:

Quote
Rolling in the darkness. The sound of truth the only song that ever plays all the way through. They look back only once. And that's if you are really lucky.

 :( Even the lucky ones can have regret; in the blackness of memory, the black dog bites. Jack, at least, had the last look of Ennis in the doorway, and the stolen shirt in the closet. What did Ennis have?
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #134 on: Jul 10, 2009, 06:34 AM »
You quoted Jackster so perhaps you meant Jack not Lance.  :)

I like the poem you quoted, and especially this bit:

 :( Even the lucky ones can have regret; in the blackness of memory, the black dog bites. Jack, at least, had the last look of Ennis in the doorway, and the stolen shirt in the closet. What did Ennis have?


Thanks lance.  :)  I edited the last post.  ;)

Ennis will always have the memory of their time in BBM.  In some ways, they never left.


Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #135 on: Jul 10, 2009, 11:21 AM »
Ennis will always have the memory of their time in BBM . . .
Thomas your linked poem was remarkably touching and seemed to hit directly at this relationship.

At the risk of going OT here, Ennis's loss of Jack, and Ennis' memory of BBM struck me in a different way just recently, some thoughts: Looking again at the scene in Lightning Flat where John Twist tells Ennis "then this spring, got another fella' gone come up here with him". At this point Ennis completely loses Jack, suddenly he is no longer the man in Jack's life. Not only has he lost Jack physically, but he's also lost the warm memory of their time together. He's been replaced by "another fella". Ennis truly is "nuthin', nowhere". You can see this devastation so well in the empty dead expression on his face: (thanks again Heath)


But Jack's Ma comes to the rescue here. Sensing the deep pain and loss that Ennis is feeling at this very moment, she offers, instructs really, Ennis to go upstairs "if you want" where Ennis discovers the shirts. By the discovery of the shirts Ennis gets Jack back, or at least the feeling of Jack. He discovers that it was himself that Jack held the light for for all those years, not "some other fella". John Twist's stories notwithstanding, it was Ennis' shirt in the closet carefully intertwined with Jack's. Among other things, this discovery allows Ennis to keep the memory of Brokeback (and Jack) in his mind, not have it beat down by the thought that he was abandoned by Jack.
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2009, 11:49 AM by jackster »
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #136 on: Jul 10, 2009, 03:04 PM »
Right on, Jackster. Beautifully explained.  :clap: ^f^

That scene with Ms Maxwell is always one of my favorite.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #137 on: Jul 10, 2009, 03:30 PM »
That scene with Ms Maxwell is always one of my favorite.
me too bud.  :^^)
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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #138 on: Jul 10, 2009, 08:44 PM »
Damn, Jackster. That post sure was something else. Made me want to cry. Just beautiful and so true. Thank you.  ^f^

Offline ksxks

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #139 on: Jul 11, 2009, 11:00 PM »
Me, too, Jackster.  So beautiful and true.  Isn't it fascinating how we can still find new insight into BBM after all this time.  This in particular that you said, I had never really delved into those few moments when Ennis had to hear that Jack apparently had gotten some other fella.  And yes, it was Mrs. Twist (I heart Mrs. Twist) who steered him back to the love he had with Jack.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #140 on: Jul 13, 2009, 07:14 AM »
Beautifully out, jackster.  I agree with you, especially in the role of Jack's mom.

Jack kept the shirts even after the falling out.  Whatever his intentions, it would seem that he would cherish what we had with Ennis as something that was for keeps.

 

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #141 on: Jul 13, 2009, 10:39 AM »
I must add myself to the fellows who think you have done a beautiful analyse of Ennis psychology after Jack's death and the role that Ma Twist played to,somehow,join Jack's memories and Ennis reality.Thank you for that. :clap:
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #142 on: Jul 13, 2009, 12:34 PM »
. . .  I had never really delved into those few moments when Ennis had to hear that Jack apparently had gotten some other fella. . .
kathy
Made me watch this scene in a whole new way. All those steps after hearing this bitter line from John Twist, - then going upstairs, exploring Jack's room and closet, all that time upstairs, Ennis is thinkin' he's been abandoned, left behind by Jack. IMO it took some courage to do that, we all know what that feeling is like, seems the urge would have been to get out, leave. Then he makes this "hidden" discovery and suddenly Jack, (or the memory of him) comes flooding back. Makes those initial steps even more painful somehow.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #143 on: Jul 14, 2009, 06:57 AM »
The beauty of it all is that in spite of his feeling abandoned, he stayed true to his love for Jack and was "rewarded" -- in a way -- by the discovery of the shirts.

Perhaps all this is corollary to the scene in the alley, but in some ways, they have strong correspondences.  In both scenes, there is that sense of abandonment.  But the sense of abandonment is tempered by the knowledge that both of them carried that love away with them fairly intact.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #144 on: Jul 14, 2009, 01:27 PM »
The beauty of it all is that in spite of his feeling abandoned, he stayed true to his love for Jack and was "rewarded" -- in a way -- by the discovery of the shirts.

Perhaps all this is corollary to the scene in the alley, but in some ways, they have strong correspondences.  In both scenes, there is that sense of abandonment.  But the sense of abandonment is tempered by the knowledge that both of them carried that love away with them fairly intact.

This may be off topic, but the scene that Jackster described is after Jack's death. The sense of abandonment is not only from "that rancher fellow" but also from death, the tire iron.

The alley scene was Ennis reacting to losing a friend from his own fears which kept him from reaching out to the person he most wanted to spend time with. He didn't even know what it was until much later.

The kitchen scene was Ennis reaching out to Jack's folks, hoping to find something to hold on to, despite losing Jack. The old duck stud typically twisted his knife into Ennis about "that rancher neighbour", but Jack's Ma pointed the way out for Ennis...to Jack's room, which she kept like when he was a boy. She understood his reasons for being there, and she responded with love and sharing. She knew about those shirts, and she was prepared for Ennis taking them with him. She reached for the paper sag almost right the way when Ennis showed up down stairs with the shirt. And she gave him a knowing smile.

The beauty of Brokeback Mountain is the love that holds on, over twenty years, over bigotry, over circumstances beyond their control, over death. It's not only Ennis' love or Jack's love. It is love that permeate the movie in all the characters, from Junior to Cassie to Jack's Ma...the women who loved Ennis through all his faults and mistakes.

Without Jack's Ma, the movie would be very different...like the short story, with Ennis wasting away in the lonely trailer p!ssing in the sink and dreaming the days away.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #145 on: Jul 15, 2009, 06:25 AM »
Beautifully said, lance.  And yes, I think the ending would have been much more bleak without the caring touch of Jack's mom.

OK.  I should remember that the main topic here is the alley scene!  :)




Offline rampantlion

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #146 on: Oct 27, 2024, 11:51 PM »
Ennis outburst of emotions: crying, screaming, punching, stomach ... could represent 5 things going on all at once: 1) Jack: unresolved  physical fight, unresolved relationship, not seeing him anymore, not even a good bye kiss and hug...2) Alma: he cheated on her and still he would marry her with the secret inside who is he and who is in love 3) not getting paid for a month when money is tight and a wedding to pay 4) he is frustrated to himself, doubts who he is, doubts about marriage 5) Society: death if they found he is gay which is the MDQ of the story and that hunt Ennis since 9 years old...So it is so appropriate Ennis breaking down to release all these emotios like exploding volcano ...