Topic: What do you think about their aging?

[stationbbm]

Thanks Liam56 and TPE:

This does capture it for Jack in the final scene with Ennis.  20 years of 14 hour each-way drives to/fro Wyoming to be with someone you love for only a long weekend at best; I can't help but think it had to be an awful rollercoaster ride in thinking that someday "his hope" might become a reality...how painful, how lonely, how broken, how frustrating.  To pour yourself heart and soul into someone, only one somone, and then never be able to realize your dream for that relationship.  Just rips your heart out.  This may be shallow to say, but, in some respect, it's too bad Joe Aguirre didn't say at the outset: "Ya know.  I'm sorry guys. I've already rounded up two hands to help me out this summer up on Brokeback.  Keep me in mind for next summer."  A different set of circumstances would have brought about a different result?  Hindsight is 20/20.  No one deserves that kind of hurt.

stationbbm   

[tpe]

Thanks Liam56 and TPE:

This does capture it for Jack in the final scene with Ennis.  20 years of 14 hour each-way drives to/fro Wyoming to be with someone you love for only a long weekend at best; I can't help but think it had to be an awful rollercoaster ride in thinking that someday "his hope" might become a reality...how painful, how lonely, how broken, how frustrating.  To pour yourself heart and soul into someone, only one somone, and then never be able to realize your dream for that relationship.  Just rips your heart out.  This may be shallow to say, but, in some respect, it's too bad Joe Aguirre didn't say at the outset: "Ya know.  I'm sorry guys. I've already rounded up two hands to help me out this summer up on Brokeback.  Keep me in mind for next summer."  A different set of circumstances would have brought about a different result?  Hindsight is 20/20.  No one deserves that kind of hurt.

stationbbm   

stationbbm, thanks for the great comments.

I think it is not shallow at all to have hoped that Ennis and Jack would have been spared all the heart-ache.

BUu I would also like to think that along with the hope and disappointment, Jack also nourished a lifetime of love -- enough to fill out several ordinary lifetimes, I dare say.   

[matt78]

sorry, tpe but...baloney!  He missed out on true happiness and on sharing his life with the one person he truly loved. 

that's what broke my heart about this movie.  That's why I didn't leave the theater in a jovial mood but felt drained...
Poor Ennis doesn't have enough love from those weekends to last him a lifetime.  That is, it depends what he does in the future with the love that he received from Jack...

[tpe]

sorry, tpe but...baloney!  He missed out on true happiness and on sharing his life with the one person he truly loved. 

that's what broke my heart about this movie.  That's why I didn't leave the theater in a jovial mood but felt drained...
Poor Ennis doesn't have enough love from those weekends to last him a lifetime.  That is, it depends what he does in the future with the love that he received from Jack...

All's fine garc1978.   We don't have to agree exactly about this.

To me, you can love without the beloved loving back.  It does not make your love any less real or intense.  If you can love deeply, then there is some happiness there.  It may not be a fulfilled happiness.  But it is happiness nonetheless.

[ethan]

Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them. 

In my 5th viewing, I paid more attention to their aging. I think they age pretty well in general. I agree with Toadily that 39 is not really that old. Ledger is amazing in his portrayal of Ennis, especially after I have seen his interview with Leno and GG. I appreciate his performance even more. When you compare the first scene they met to the last scene together, you will notice the difference. After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.

The only complaint - (not really a complaint because there is nothing I dislike about BBM) is Jack's belly. It just looks it is padded.

[jimnick]

Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them. 

In my 5th viewing, I paid more attention to their aging. I think they age pretty well in general. I agree with Toadily that 39 is not really that old. Ledger is amazing in his portrayal of Ennis, especially after I have seen his interview with Leno and GG. I appreciate his performance even more. When you compare the first scene they met to the last scene together, you will notice the difference. After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.

The only complaint - (not really a complaint because there is nothing I dislike about BBM) is Jack's belly. It just looks it is padded.

I think that the gut looked a little overdone.  Ennis' lambchops were a little furry looking and Jacks. mustache little waxy, but I was so engrossed in them that I only came to these conclusions on the third viewing. 


And ...Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.  What's that supposed to say about those of us who are 45?

Jim

[ethan]

And ...Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.  What's that supposed to say about those of us who are 45?
Jim

Dear Jim, no offense.  I was saying compared to the age of 39, it was terribly older than that. After all, beauty is in the eyes of beholder.  I am catching up with you.

[jimnick]

Ethan:

No offense taken.  I knew what you meant.  It just caught my cat's tail...

Jim

[ethan]

Ethan:

No offense taken.  I knew what you meant.  It just caught my cat's tail...

Jim

You are also one of the greatest - age is irrelevant in this regard. 

[stationbbm]

Ethan:

No offense taken.  I knew what you meant.  It just caught my cat's tail...

Jim

You are also one of the greatest - age is irrelevant in this regard. 

Jim: I'm with you....these folks who are under 40 seem to be wanting to make a big deal about those who are OVER 40.  If memory serves me, didn't Ethan just have a birthday this week?  Pray, I think 40 will see him soon enough....

stationbbm

[ethan]

Jim: I'm with you....these folks who are under 40 seem to be wanting to make a big deal about those who are OVER 40.  If memory serves me, didn't Ethan just have a birthday this week?  Pray, I think 40 will see him soon enough....

stationbbm

stationbbm, you know...how can we have this forum without you?  I thought 30 was serious enough - maybe 40 is the really mark. I say..hey 40 here I come so I can join your guys league. I will just do more facial treatments. 

[Liam56]

Hey TPE---

I read this a few days ago and had difficulty finding it, but finally located it.  I found this quote from the NYT very interesting and I have been thinking about it.  What's your take?  Do you really feel that at their last encounter in 1983, Jack's face showed "a lifetime of hope blurring with a lifetime of disappointment?" 

Hello Liam56.  I do love this statement from the NYT review!  I do think that at that moment, both hope and disappointment coexisted in Jack.  I am aware that a number of people think that at that point, Jack had lost hope on Ennis and was ready to move on and share a life with another person.  But I think the NYT comment is closer to how I feel: Jack never lost hope
even if he was always inevitably disappointed.  This is why I love the character of Jack so much.  He was less complex than Ennis, but he gives all of us hope.  Let be Let be.

Hey TPE--

Thanks for your comments.  That last scene always gets too me when Jack embraces Ennis and makes that comment, "Let be . . . let be."  It's as if he were saying, "Yeah, it's been a rough ride; I want more, but there arre no reins on this relationship.  Let's just enjoy what we have."  Ennis may have ahad a lot more anger and was much more complex than Jack, but there was this love that both shared for each other, enough to last twenty years from a mere couple of weeks a year.  Even after 20 years Jack could say, "You know, sometimes I miss you so much I just can barely stand it."  Disappointed yes, but still in love.  An absolutely beautiful scene, yer heart wrenching.

[Patriot1]

Ennis didn't age well though, did he.

It is a distraction for me when I watch the movie.  Graying hair, severe wrinkles around the eyes, walks gingerly as if he is 80, slowed down movements....  and he was only 40 or 41.

And, there is something else that makes me sad for Ennis.  And it didn't come from the movie or story or screenplay; it came from the author during an interview.  Annie P. said that there is a high rate of suicide among older single men in Wyoming. I can't help but wonder if that is Ennis' fate and I get sad.  I wish Annie hadn't said that.

[tara1022]

I read an interview with Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana that they don't believe Ennis would have committed suicide. Here's what they said:

According to Proulx, Wyoming has the highest suicide rate in the country—and most of those suicides are elderly single men. Did you two imagine Ennis’s future at all?

Ossana: I think Annie has a story somewhere about Ennis as an older man, and he winds up moving in with Alma Jr.

McMurtry: I don’t think Ennis would kill himself.

Ossana: He’s too tough. That would be a sign of weakness, and it would leave a memory of him as being weak, and I don’t think he would want that. But I do think that Ennis knows that people probably know that he’s homosexual, and emotionally [at the end of the film] I think he makes a tiny bit of progress, because he agrees to attend Alma Jr.’s wedding. Finally he compromises—

McMurtry: And doesn’t disappoint a woman.

Ossana: It’s the first time in the film that he doesn’t disappoint someone, male or female. It’s a tiny baby step, but he does it. I just don’t know how much [more] he’s capable of changing. I think if anything, he might become even more homophobic and bitter because of what he did, what he gave up, what he lost, what he’ll never have.

The rest of the interview is here: http://www.advocate.com/currentstory1_w.asp?id=25277&page=1

[BBBOY]

I think their aging was effective and for the most part convincing except for the scene with Jack and Randall on the bench. I've posted this elsewhere but in that scene Jack looks exactly like Lily Tomlin when she does that sleazy male lounge singer who's name completely escapes. I have to smile when I see that scene. It's the only time I can't buy Jack being in his mid-30's.

[Walford]

Not to commit sacrilege, but if there's any area where BBM deserves criticism, it's makeup.  When it's so bad that you notice it, then it's bad!      Like the scene of Ennis in the phone booth, the makeup under his eyes is supposed to look like bags and wrinkles.  Instead, it just looks like he's got two splotches of makeup on his face.

There are little, annoying distractions like that in the movie, and I often wish they had known that BBM would be a $100-million movie; maybe they would have spent a few million more making it.  Of course, Ang has said that the shoestring budget was very liberating for him, as he was never concerned with making BBM look like a big-budget epic.  So, I'll take a fantastic movie with crappy makeup over a crappy movie with fantastic makeup any day!   

[Badarsila]

Not to commit sacrilege, but if there's any area where BBM deserves criticism, it's makeup.  When it's so bad that you notice it, then it's bad!      Like the scene of Ennis in the phone booth, the makeup under his eyes is supposed to look like bags and wrinkles.  Instead, it just looks like he's got two splotches of makeup on his face.

There are little, annoying distractions like that in the movie, and I often wish they had known that BBM would be a $100-million movie; maybe they would have spent a few million more making it.  Of course, Ang has said that the shoestring budget was very liberating for him, as he was never concerned with making BBM look like a big-budget epic.  So, I'll take a fantastic movie with crappy makeup over a crappy movie with fantastic makeup any day!   

Yep,...

[rikcub]

Yes look at his body language, he is slouching more too.
I can tell the voice changes, clearly with both of them. 

In my 5th viewing, I paid more attention to their aging. I think they age pretty well in general. I agree with Toadily that 39 is not really that old. Ledger is amazing in his portrayal of Ennis, especially after I have seen his interview with Leno and GG. I appreciate his performance even more. When you compare the first scene they met to the last scene together, you will notice the difference. After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.

The only complaint - (not really a complaint because there is nothing I dislike about BBM) is Jack's belly. It just looks it is padded.

Ok from one of the senior citizens here (43)    ....think about this. 

These guys lived in a different time and place...and a rough and tumble one at that.  Annie Proulx makes it a point that they are a product of that era and physical/cultural landscape and couldn't escape it.  They both lived pretty frustrated and unhappy lives...Jack drank a lot (Lureen confirms that for us)....both smoked...Ennis had back breaking jobs.  Because of all these things I think they not only aged physically, which is shown pretty well, but most of all aged emotionally and spiritually...these guys were VERY tired and worn at 39.  If you watch their acting I think that really shows throug with both.

[rabjr1]

I am 57 going on 8.

We should all age as well as those two.

In the immortal words of Indiana Jones:  "It ain't the years, its the mileage."

[chameau]

I am 57 going on 8.

We should all age as well as those two.

In the immortal words of Indiana Jones:  "It ain't the years, its the mileage."

I love that line, thanks for sharig RAB.

[Toadily]

And ...Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.  What's that supposed to say about those of us who are 45?
Jim

Dear Jim, no offense.  I was saying compared to the age of 39, it was terribly older than that. After all, beauty is in the eyes of beholder.  I am catching up with you.

I know what you mean, it's not in years it's more in that he is bitter and a hard drinker and looks tired.
I also really noted how Jake made his voice age too.  When he says "I did once" to Ennis's
question of do you have a better idea, it's an old man.  Sad and burnt out.

I guess to me that padding didn't look too bad, I have a friend who has the same kind of paunch
and yes it looks fake but believe me it's real. 

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Considering Heath and Jake were 24 and 23 respectively during the filming, I thought the aging was done well for the most part.  The few make up flaws I noticed seemed to be with Jake.  I noticed in the final camp scene his sideburns were more pronounced. In fact I thought he looked really good in this scene (pant! pant!).  I wasn't as impressed with the make up job for their final scene together. It seems as thought he lost some of the sideburn action.

The only inconsistency I spotted with Heath's make up was during a brief clip of him tossing hay. Prior to that scene his character had already grown noticeable sideburns. During this clip he didn't appear to have the sideburns.  He looked younger than he should have been at this point.

Just an observation.

(yes, I like sideburns and pornstaches!  )

[ranchgal]

Ennis didn't age well though, did he.

It is a distraction for me when I watch the movie.  Graying hair, severe wrinkles around the eyes, walks gingerly as if he is 80, slowed down movements....  and he was only 40 or 41.

that is old cowboy---too much weather, too many accidents, and getting slammed against things by ornery animals, and too much on and off rough stock, and saddle time.     
Old cowboys generally have arthritis in knees, hip and spine--and always walk slightly hunched, and do stairs one step at time, like they have to pull themselves by the hand rail.   
I know alot of guys that look that who did the same type work as Ennis, out feeding and doctoring in the winter-changes your appearance. 

[frenchcda]

Ennis didn't age well though, did he.

It is a distraction for me when I watch the movie.  Graying hair, severe wrinkles around the eyes, walks gingerly as if he is 80, slowed down movements....  and he was only 40 or 41.

that is old cowboy---too much weather, too many accidents, and getting slammed against things by ornery animals, and too much on and off rough stock, and saddle time.     
Old cowboys generally have arthritis in knees, hip and spine--and always walk slightly hunched, and do stairs one step at time, like they have to pull themselves by the hand rail.   
I know alot of guys that look that who did the same type work as Ennis, out feeding and doctoring in the winter-changes your appearance. 

Add to that sorrows and discontent, that would have surely done him over, a broken heart is the worst thing a person can endure, makes  the process of aging due to misfortune must faster

[Rodney]

It seems like a lotof people really dislike facial hair on men.  I've had a beard for 30 years, and just a moustache before that.  I thought it was great how Ennis and Jack , even though they weren't in Berkeley or New York, were influenced by popular culture.  I think almost all men, in the 70's, had at least longer hair over their ears, or sideburns.  I think Jacks moustache looked real and the scene where he watches Ennis drive away is the best one showing how Jack had aged.  Natalia, love you calling it a Jackstache....being a lover of facial hair, I thought Jack was at his most manly handsome with the stache. 

[Rodney]

Oh, almost forgot.   They were in Wyoming and even back then cowboys smoked pot.  I'm glad Annie Proulx included that in the story, cause it shows how pop culture eventually creeps into the hinterlands.  But I am glad that Jack & Ennis didn't have love beads or bellbottom Wranglers!

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

It seems like a lotof people really dislike facial hair on men.  I've had a beard for 30 years, and just a moustache before that.  I thought it was great how Ennis and Jack , even though they weren't in Berkeley or New York, were influenced by popular culture.  I think almost all men, in the 70's, had at least longer hair over their ears, or sideburns.  I think Jacks moustache looked real and the scene where he watches Ennis drive away is the best one showing how Jack had aged.  Natalia, love you calling it a Jackstache....being a lover of facial hair, I thought Jack was at his most manly handsome with the stache. 

Thanks for this post.  As a lover of men with facial hair I have to agree with your comments on Jack's aging. I liked his profile when he said "truth is...sometimes I miss you so much, I can hardly stand it."  They did a good job with him in that scene.

[Kenny]

Sorry for the short-but-sweet reply...

I didn't like Jack with the 'stache, LoL. It just didn't look good on Jake. A little stubble would've been okay, just not such a thick 'stache!

[frances]

After the "embrace from behind" scene and when Jack watched Ennis driving away, Jack looks terribly old - I would say at least over 40.

That's exactly the moment I thought something like "How old he looks!".




We must consider that having 40 years in the 60's - 70's it's not the same as having this age nowadays (have a look at our parents' pictures for istance), but mostly Jack looks "old" for all the frustration, resignation, disillusion, tiredness he expresses in this shot.

[bram]

I remember reading somewhere that he was meant to look very old for his age. I think they did a good job, though. I didn't notice how much older they both looked until the flashback scene. I mean, they obviously looked older, but I didn't notice such a stark contrast.

It's like watching Six Days and Seven Nights right after watching Star Wars. Oh my God, Harrison Ford is melting!!