Topic: Walk to the bar.

[n061857]

In his relationship with Jack I think Ennis exhibited some degree of passive agg. behavior.  Maybe because he was guarding his true feelings for Jack.  I think some of us do that when we are so smitten/in love with some one else in order to protect our feelings/ourselves.

And yes Ennis was capable of violence IN ORDER to protect those he was in love with. 

The tragedy of their relationship is that the thing Ennis MOST feared  might happen happened anyways.  I think Ennis could have protected Jack and himself when danger was around or died trying and take them (perpetraters) down with him. 

I agree with you.  Ennis was one tough guy.  I think he could have protected them.  Think about that firework scene.  Was he macho or what?                    - Nancy

[jerasjr]

In the book Ennis has a brother in Signal, doesn't he?  So he might have known the town too.  Maybe we can view it as Jack takes the lead, sets the momentum of the relationship, so to speak, but Ennis sets the parameters of the relationship.  Neither one knew where it was headed, but each had their role, each a leader in their own way.  What a huge amount of love they had for each other.

[jesseanne21]

I think Ennis was reluctant to go to the bar with Jack after their first meeting  because he was BROKE!  He was so broke at the beginning of the movie he only smoked HALF A CIGARETTE and then saved the rest. 

Notice in the bar scene Ennis had one beer while Jack had two or three.  I think Ennis was too shy/embarrassed to say he didn't have much money and that is why he lagged behind Jack on the walk to the bar.

[tpe]

I think Ennis was reluctant to go to the bar with Jack after their first meeting  because he was BROKE!  He was so broke at the beginning of the movie he only smoked HALF A CIGARETTE and then saved the rest. 

Notice in the bar scene Ennis had one beer while Jack had two or three.  I think Ennis was too shy/embarrassed to say he didn't have much money and that is why he lagged behind Jack on the walk to the bar.

THis is interesting.  I had never thought of this.  It is certainly plausible.  Ennis had everything he owned in the bag he carried.  That is telling...

[chameau]

I think Ennis was reluctant to go to the bar with Jack after their first meeting  because he was BROKE!  He was so broke at the beginning of the movie he only smoked HALF A CIGARETTE and then saved the rest. 

Notice in the bar scene Ennis had one beer while Jack had two or three.  I think Ennis was too shy/embarrassed to say he didn't have much money and that is why he lagged behind Jack on the walk to the bar.

That makes a lot of sense, and Tpe's comments about bringing everything Ennis owned in a grocery paperbag just re-inforce it.  Don't forget Ennis had to do hitchiking to get to Signal while Jack had a truck (I know beaten but still... had one)

[bram]

I think Ennis was reluctant to go to the bar with Jack after their first meeting  because he was BROKE!  He was so broke at the beginning of the movie he only smoked HALF A CIGARETTE and then saved the rest. 

Notice in the bar scene Ennis had one beer while Jack had two or three.  I think Ennis was too shy/embarrassed to say he didn't have much money and that is why he lagged behind Jack on the walk to the bar.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

[BBBOY]

I think Ennis was reluctant to go to the bar with Jack after their first meeting  because he was BROKE!  He was so broke at the beginning of the movie he only smoked HALF A CIGARETTE and then saved the rest. 

Notice in the bar scene Ennis had one beer while Jack had two or three.  I think Ennis was too shy/embarrassed to say he didn't have much money and that is why he lagged behind Jack on the walk to the bar.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

In the story they both drove to Signal in their trucks. I think Ang chose to have Ennis on foot in the movie to emphasis his poverty.

[Patriot1]

I think Ennis was reluctant to go to the bar with Jack after their first meeting  because he was BROKE!  He was so broke at the beginning of the movie he only smoked HALF A CIGARETTE and then saved the rest. 

Notice in the bar scene Ennis had one beer while Jack had two or three.  I think Ennis was too shy/embarrassed to say he didn't have much money and that is why he lagged behind Jack on the walk to the bar.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

In the story they both drove to Signal in their trucks. I think Ang chose to have Ennis on foot in the movie to emphasis his poverty.

Yes and if you will remember in the story Ennis' truck broke down when he was 14 or 15 years old.  I am sure at that age he had no money to get it repaired so he probably sold it.

[welshwitch]

Jack is almost always assured in social situations, eg he can dance and Ennis can't, he handles the LaShawn situation as well as anyone could ( given her nature!). I alwys see his walking to the bar first as his showing his self-assurance - he knows what to do, isn't worried by how to behave, whereas Ennis has little idea. It reflects Jack's greater experience - he's been away from home, travels the country later, settles down in Texas, while Ennis ends up where he began. Jack often leads him, but can never lead him far enough, literally or psychologically, to take him away from his Wyoming roots.

[frances]

Jack is always in front when the two of them are traveling anywhere. 

One of the cutest exceptions (OT) is following the mixed-up sheep herd fiasco, Ennis and Jack are riding side by side while Jack plays his harmonica, suggesting that they're in harmony at this stage and things are at a relatively smooth moment in their relationship .

[tpe]

Jack is always in front when the two of them are traveling anywhere. 

One of the cutest exceptions (OT) is following the mixed-up sheep herd fiasco, Ennis and Jack are riding side by side while Jack plays his harmonica, suggesting that they're in harmony at this stage and things are at a relatively smooth moment in their relationship .

This is a very lovely observation.  Thansk you frances.  He did finally seem to get to learn the tune he was playing at this stage, no?  Initially, you hear only snatches -- he was still learning how to play it in the initial scenes.  In this scene tyou refer to, the tune is apparently complete...

[aintfoolin]

This is a cute scene, But I agree with Ennis here Jack's harmonica playing is SCARY. But he's proud of it though and that's what matters.

[welshwitch]

  "Music hath charms" etc.? I think his playing was pretty awful  but Ennis didn't.That's love.

Jack is so often, as in the walking to the bar scene and from then on, the doer while Ennis is the follower or the admiring audience.Until of course FNIT.

[aintfoolin]

Ennis might be quiet and shy, he knows a nice ass when he sees one .......Sweet.    Smile.

[aintfoolin]

Jack may have offered to buy Ennis a beer,since he probably figured that Ennis had little money.This then puts Jack in a position to find out more about this sexy guy he'd be workin with all summer. Jack does discover alot about Ennis in the bar that he himself could relate to.Rodeoing, being "ranch people", was he "run off" etc.... as well as giving Ennis a little insight into his own life. As far as Jack being Ennis's "leader"? Conversation wise, yes at that point. in the next scene Jac's "no philly can throw me" and "tying knots all day" comments did't endear himslf to Ennis at all.Ennis probably thought this guy's a "smartass" TOO sure of himslf. but Ennis knew better.

[CrimsonSky]

Something occured to me last night, when I was watching the bar scene. In the Thanksgiving scene, Ennis tells the girls he rode a bull once, and that was it,but when Jack asks Ennis in the bar if he ever rodeos, Ennis replies "once in a while,when I've got the entry fee in my pocket", and he also says, later on Brokeback, "I don't rodeo much, myself...", both those quotes imply that he'd done it more than once, if not frequently.It made me wonder if it was an early attempt by Ennis to make Jack like him,by pretending to be more interested in rodeoing than he actually was. Someone mentioned in another thread about Ennis ordering the soup, but pretending it was him, not Jack, who was sick of beans, how it was the sort of thing a teenager would do, and I thought the rodeo thing was kind of similar, like when the boy you like at school is into a particular band, or TV programme, and you pretend you like them too :-[

[welshwitch]

I'm writing from the wrong side of thepond, but I thought there were other things aside from bull-riding involved in rodeoing. In fact I was slightly surprised by the bull-riding sequences in the movie - I'd been expecting bucking broncos, more like the one on the Wyoming sign.I assumed Ennis had been doing things like that - he was evidently knowledgeable about horses and a better rider than Jack, though that may be an artefeact, since in reality Jake isn;t much of a rider and Heath is.

[CrimsonSky]

That's blown my theory out of the water then, hasn't it? I'm from the wrong side of the pond too, so that's my excuse for my total ignorance of all things rodeo :-[ I told you, I talk too much :-[ :-[ :-[

[BBBOY]

Something occured to me last night, when I was watching the bar scene. In the Thanksgiving scene, Ennis tells the girls he rode a bull once, and that was it,but when Jack asks Ennis in the bar if he ever rodeos, Ennis replies "once in a while,when I've got the entry fee in my pocket", and he also says, later on Brokeback, "I don't rodeo much, myself...", both those quotes imply that he'd done it more than once, if not frequently.It made me wonder if it was an early attempt by Ennis to make Jack like him,by pretending to be more interested in rodeoing than he actually was. Someone mentioned in another thread about Ennis ordering the soup, but pretending it was him, not Jack, who was sick of beans, how it was the sort of thing a teenager would do, and I thought the rodeo thing was kind of similar, like when the boy you like at school is into a particular band, or TV programme, and you pretend you like them too :-[

I would have to go back and watch the movie, but I always thought Ennis was implying riding broncs not bulls. It takes a special personality to ride bulls from what I know of it and I doubt Ennis had that type of personality. I like your take on the rest of it CrimsonSky.

[CrimsonSky]

Something occured to me last night, when I was watching the bar scene. In the Thanksgiving scene, Ennis tells the girls he rode a bull once, and that was it,but when Jack asks Ennis in the bar if he ever rodeos, Ennis replies "once in a while,when I've got the entry fee in my pocket", and he also says, later on Brokeback, "I don't rodeo much, myself...", both those quotes imply that he'd done it more than once, if not frequently.It made me wonder if it was an early attempt by Ennis to make Jack like him,by pretending to be more interested in rodeoing than he actually was. Someone mentioned in another thread about Ennis ordering the soup, but pretending it was him, not Jack, who was sick of beans, how it was the sort of thing a teenager would do, and I thought the rodeo thing was kind of similar, like when the boy you like at school is into a particular band, or TV programme, and you pretend you like them too :-[

I would have to go back and watch the movie, but I always thought Ennis was implying riding broncs not bulls. It takes a special personality to ride bulls from what I know of it and I doubt Ennis had that type of personality. I like your take on the rest of it CrimsonSky.

Thanks BBBOY, hopefully you can see what I mean, even if I'm completely wrong  :-[

[BBBOY]

Thanks BBBOY, hopefully you can see what I mean, even if I'm completely wrong  :-[

Ennis is completely taken with taking care of Jack at this point. I think it's why he is willing to trade places and go up with the sheep.

[ms.bluesky]

well i think ennis is just the qieut type and is affraid to take lead

[Patriot1]

Something occured to me last night, when I was watching the bar scene. In the Thanksgiving scene, Ennis tells the girls he rode a bull once, and that was it,but when Jack asks Ennis in the bar if he ever rodeos, Ennis replies "once in a while,when I've got the entry fee in my pocket", and he also says, later on Brokeback, "I don't rodeo much, myself...", both those quotes imply that he'd done it more than once, if not frequently.It made me wonder if it was an early attempt by Ennis to make Jack like him,by pretending to be more interested in rodeoing than he actually was. Someone mentioned in another thread about Ennis ordering the soup, but pretending it was him, not Jack, who was sick of beans, how it was the sort of thing a teenager would do, and I thought the rodeo thing was kind of similar, like when the boy you like at school is into a particular band, or TV programme, and you pretend you like them too :-[

What you say, CrimsonSky, may be true but I just can not see Ennis exaggerating to impress Jack.

And Ennis told the girls of the time he rode a bronco.  There is a difference between a bronco and a bull. One is a horse the other a male Steak.

[welshwitch]

So they do have bucking broncos in rodeos? You guys have a responsibi;lity to enlighten us ignorant Brits.

Still, i think Crimsonsky is right about the rest - while Ennis isn't the type to exaggerate or invent, he might well be glad to have some common ground with Jack - they're going to be spending a lot of time together.

[jesseanne21]

So they do have bucking broncos in rodeos? You guys have a responsibi;lity to enlighten us ignorant Brits.

Still, i think Crimsonsky is right about the rest - while Ennis isn't the type to exaggerate or invent, he might well be glad to have some common ground with Jack - they're going to be spending a lot of time together.

Professional rodeos are held throughout the US and Canada, Mexico and some parts of South America.

There are many types of rodeo events, most involve the use of animals.  The events are divided into roughstock events and timed events.

Rough stock events include:  bull riding, bronc (horse) riding (either bareback or with a saddle)
Timed events include:  barrell racing, pole bending (racing), cattle wrestling and roping (calf and steer) events

There are also many different professional rodeo circuits.  The oldest and largest is the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association (PRCA) which runs over 700 rodeos per year.  There are also amateur rodeos, rodeos for women, high school rodeos, African American (Black) and Native American rodeos and even a gay rodeo circuit.

[welshwitch]

So that's why Jack talked about not being able to afford a roping horse.

Thank you - that's all most enlightening. I knew about the gay rodeo circuit - the Canadians used in the movie were apparently part of it. Didn't know about all the other things - they all sound relatively dangerous.

[jesseanne21]

Im sure rodeos are dangerous for those cowboys/girls participaing, but they are great entertainment for the people in the stands!!!!

[chameau]

If we could please go back the scheduled programm? Thanks!

[greenfrog]

well i think ennis is just the qieut type and is affraid to take lead

Sounds like Ennis.

[tpe]

well i think ennis is just the qieut type and is affraid to take lead

Sounds like Ennis.

At this early stage, he also seemed to have been a bit more withdrawn.  He was probably very curious about Jack as a person, but he had to be drawn into a conversation while at the bar.  The walk to the bar would seem to corroborate this, where he seems to be following Jack's lead and is yet keeping a safe distance...