Topic: Which love speaks to you?

[vedrana]

Ennis's fidelity was never a question. He's never showed any glimpse on other man. He knew and loved only Jack. Then and always!

And if he agreed to live with Jack, I think that Jack would be the same. Even once Jake Gylenhaal spoke about Jack's wish to draw Ennis from his shell. Had he succeeded, maybe he won't be so interested in Ennis anymore. Just maybe! (Jake said that, NOT ME!  )

[atalley]

I can hardly believe he said that.

[vedrana]

Something like that for sure... maybe not the exact words, but the bottom lines there ....

[FlwrChild]

It can be argued that Ennis is the more reticent of the lovers, whereas Jack is the more emotive.  Nonetheless, one can say that Ennis's love is deeper, more enduring, and ever faithful.
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Which of the two is closer to your idealization of love?  Which of the two captures your heart?

Now Thomas, you know I have to step in here and gently disagree with you.  No way is Ennis' love deeper than Jack's. As you pointed out, we saw different examples of the way that they loved one another, but neither could be said to be any deeper than the other's. They simply felt and expressed their love differently.


Having cleared that up  I will go on to say that for me, Jack's love is closer to my idealization of love. He gave with his whole heart, bent with the wind to accomodate the relationship, and accepted Ennis exactly as he was with whatever Ennis  could give, despite the frustrations and disappointments of being denied that sweet life he craved so much. The fact that he was willing to put himself on the line - trying to reach for that life for both of them, knowing he could get shot down - was, to me, quietly heroic. Like you, I am drawn to 'Jack's vulnerable openness and acceptance.'   


I love Ennis (how could you not?) and feel a fierce protectiveness toward him, as well as a deep appreciation for what he gave when everything he'd been taught told him not to, but I'm in love with Jack because he was a beautiful dreamer.

[orangetruck]

Now Thomas, you know I have to step in here and gently disagree with you.  No way is Ennis' love deeper than Jack's. As you pointed out, we saw different examples of the way that they loved one another, but neither could be said to be any deeper than the other's. They simply felt and expressed their love differently.


Having cleared that up  I will go on to say that for me, Jack's love is closer to my idealization of love. He gave with his whole heart, bent with the wind to accomodate the relationship, and accepted Ennis exactly as he was with whatever Ennis  could give, despite the frustrations and disappointments of being denied that sweet life he craved so much. The fact that he was willing to put himself on the line - trying to reach for that life for both of them, knowing he could get shot down - was, to me, quietly heroic. Like you, I am drawn to 'Jack's vulnerable openness and acceptance.'   


I love Ennis (how could you not?) and feel a fierce protectiveness toward him, as well as a deep appreciation for what he gave when everything he'd been taught told him not to, but I'm in love with Jack because he was a beautiful dreamer.

I gotta say you two make it real easy to post here, as you hit so many of the spots I have swarming around in my mind. But it's also hard for me to teeter the measurement of love between both of them. I ultimately relate to Jack which has given me the disposition to be drawn towards the Ennis type. However, I think it's fair to say in the name of their love, none of it would have existed without the backdrop of the other. It's like how it was said they complimented each other. Neither love could have thrived without the other. To an extent I see the love as seeds, one of which had been planted much earlier on than the other. Ennis' needed to be watered to blossom, and it took courage from him to let Jack rain on his soil. It took courage from Jack as well, to emote the clouds over their mountain.

I still don't know exactly which speaks to me more, but with different tones they most definitely both do. 

[LuvJackNasty]

To an extent I see the love as seeds, one of which had been planted much earlier on than the other. Ennis' needed to be watered to blossom, and it took courage from him to let Jack rain on his soil. It took courage from Jack as well, to emote the clouds over their mountain.

That is beautiful 

[orangetruck]

That is beautiful 

Thanks LJ 

I love when Ennis sticks out his upside down cowboy hat from the tent to collect Jack's white balls 

[FlwrChild]

I'm just going to sit in the middle of these beautiful images for a while. 

[aintfoolin]

I gotta say you two make it real easy to post here, as you hit so many of the spots I have swarming around in my mind. But it's also hard for me to teeter the measurement of love between both of them. I ultimately relate to Jack which has given me the disposition to be drawn towards the Ennis type. However, I think it's fair to say in the name of their love, none of it would have existed without the backdrop of the other. It's like how it was said they complimented each other. Neither love could have thrived without the other. To an extent I see the love as seeds, one of which had been planted much earlier on than the other. Ennis' needed to be watered to blossom, and it took courage from him to let Jack rain on his soil. It took courage from Jack as well, to emote the clouds over their mountain.

I still don't know exactly which speaks to me more, but with different tones they most definitely both do. 

 This so beautifully said OT. I feel only half the story would have been told had they not complimented the differences they had. It was like the peices fell into place perfectly . They had such chemistry.
Both had the same level of love , deep and passionate...but differently.

 I guess I'm drawn to the fragilness of Ennis. Afraid to reach out and grasp love fully, yet just a taste  of love from  Jack can make him or break him.. His stony exterior , simply a defense mechanism, just below the surface lies someone who loves being loved. A  soft touch or a simple loving  gesture can brings tears. He sent up a prayer of thanks for Jack's return. That says it all though he tried to mask it behind some joke about Jack's harmomica. Jack knew exactly what he meant for real.

[orangetruck]

This so beautifully said OT. I feel only half the story would have been told had they not complimented the differences they had. It was like the peices fell into place perfectly . They had such chemistry.
Both had the same level of love , deep and passionate...but differently.

 I guess I'm drawn to the fragilness of Ennis. Afraid to reach out and grasp love fully, yet just a taste  of love from  Jack can make him or break him.. His stony exterior , simply a defense mechanism, just below the surface lies someone who loves being loved. A  soft touch or a simple loving  gesture can brings tears. He sent up a prayer of thanks for Jack's return. That says it all though he tried to mask it behind some joke about Jack's harmomica. Jack knew exactly what he meant for real.

Thank you, AF 

I love what you say here, and I agree: Jack felt the truth behind the smirks in that scene. Fact it probably jossled around in his chest just before and during ".. just like this, always."

There is always something about the stream in the background that flows away from Jack as he speaks in this scene. For me it almost simulates the emotion and love that one cowboy rushes to the other in several instances of their relationship. 

[aintfoolin]

Thank you, AF 

I love what you say here, and I agree: Jack felt the truth behind the smirks in that scene. Fact it probably jossled around in his chest just before and during ".. just like this, always."

There is always something about the stream in the background that flows away from Jack as he speaks in this scene. For me it almost simulates the emotion and love that one cowboy rushes to the other in several instances of their relationship. 

 Exactly OT, the stream's  flow strong and steady,unyeilding  and of course a rush every now and then, but   never allows anything to disturb it's destiny. Very much symbolic of Jack's love for Ennis, and vice/verse ,  No reins on this one .....especially with this scene. Thanx.

[tpe]

Now Thomas, you know I have to step in here and gently disagree with you.  No way is Ennis' love deeper than Jack's. As you pointed out, we saw different examples of the way that they loved one another, but neither could be said to be any deeper than the other's. They simply felt and expressed their love differently.


Having cleared that up  I will go on to say that for me, Jack's love is closer to my idealization of love. He gave with his whole heart, bent with the wind to accomodate the relationship, and accepted Ennis exactly as he was with whatever Ennis  could give, despite the frustrations and disappointments of being denied that sweet life he craved so much. The fact that he was willing to put himself on the line - trying to reach for that life for both of them, knowing he could get shot down - was, to me, quietly heroic. Like you, I am drawn to 'Jack's vulnerable openness and acceptance.'   


I love Ennis (how could you not?) and feel a fierce protectiveness toward him, as well as a deep appreciation for what he gave when everything he'd been taught told him not to, but I'm in love with Jack because he was a beautiful dreamer.

Point well taken.    It is hard making direct comparisons.  Compare the night with day?

Well, I do admit that I love the way Jack loves.  He loves with the heart in both hands, and you can take it or crush it.  There is the element of deep trust and a willingness to give himself totally.  I love that.

[tpe]

I still don't know exactly which speaks to me more, but with different tones they most definitely both do. 

Perhaps for you, they are aspects of the same thing.  The different "tones" speak to different parts of us.  The soul is not monolithic.

[FlwrChild]

Those are beautiful insights, aintfoolin and OT. 


And Thomas, I loved this:


"Well, I do admit that I love the way Jack loves.  He loves with the heart in both hands, and you can take it or crush it.  There is the element of deep trust and a willingness to give himself totally.  I love that."

[lancecowboy]

Thanks for reviving the old thread, OT. 

Beautiful posts and sentiments, everyone. 

For me, it was Ennis who spoke to me first, and still does, everyday.

Having lived in this forum for over a year, I am learning Jack's language as well, and I hear his love now.

I don't see one as loving more than the other. Each has his own love to give, in his own way.

The beauty of the movie is seeing their love fit each other so well, and so badly with society.

Tpe's word choice is perfect...immortal love.
  everyone. 

[vedrana]

Hm... is it possible that we choose Jack's or Ennis's love and behaviour, as we would choose Jake or Heath??? 

Just wondering! 

[atalley]

Actually, I think yes.  Just as Heath said that he could never be Jack, I think that Jake's outgoing personality fits Jack perfectly.   

[vedrana]

Actually, I think yes.  Just as Heath said that he could never be Jack, I think that Jake's outgoing personality fits Jack perfectly.   

When you put it in this way, it's logical!

[lancecowboy]

Hm... is it possible that we choose Jack's or Ennis's love and behaviour, as we would choose Jake or Heath??? 

Just wondering! 

Speaking for myself, I love Ennis and Heath in very different ways. I am not sure they are entirely connected.

Actually, I think yes.  Just as Heath said that he could never be Jack, I think that Jake's outgoing personality fits Jack perfectly.   

I agree here, that Heath created Ennis and no other actor would have portrayed him the same way. Similarly Jake brought to Jack something special that no one else could.

In that sense, I can see the connection between loving the character, and the actor of that role.

For me, Ennis was a reflection of something within, someone in my life, whereas Heath was a creator far away, whose character and life was an inspiration to be more than I am.

Strangely enough, the fictional character of Ennis is tangible and real to me, but the real person of Heath is an ideal, an icon, a legend, that I feel exists on a higher plane. Perhaps it's why I still have not dreamt of them.  They reside in a special place.

[atalley]

Andrew...I wish I had the time to read every post of yours.  You are always amazing.

[lancecowboy]

Andrew...I wish I had the time to read every post of yours.  You are always amazing.

Thank you, luv.  You are a sweetie to keep encouraging me to write. I will message you a link to read my posts in one place.  You can read them all at your leisure.

[tpe]

Those are beautiful insights, aintfoolin and OT. 


And Thomas, I loved this:


"Well, I do admit that I love the way Jack loves.  He loves with the heart in both hands, and you can take it or crush it.  There is the element of deep trust and a willingness to give himself totally.  I love that."

Thanks Barb.  I think what speaks out to me most of all is the level of trust -- to put yourself in another person's hands.  Especially one's happiness...

[tpe]

Thanks for reviving the old thread, OT. 

Beautiful posts and sentiments, everyone. 

For me, it was Ennis who spoke to me first, and still does, everyday.

Having lived in this forum for over a year, I am learning Jack's language as well, and I hear his love now.

I don't see one as loving more than the other. Each has his own love to give, in his own way.

The beauty of the movie is seeing their love fit each other so well, and so badly with society.

Tpe's word choice is perfect...immortal love.
  everyone. 

Thanks lance.  You said it perfectly.  They loved in their own different ways, and one doesn't necessarily love more than the other.  And yes, the miracle of the movie is to make the love not just plausible but INEVITABLE.  In the end, we don't question the love, is spite of everything that seems to go against it.

[tpe]

Strangely enough, the fictional character of Ennis is tangible and real to me, but the real person of Heath is an ideal, an icon, a legend, that I feel exists on a higher plane. Perhaps it's why I still have not dreamt of them.  They reside in a special place.

This speaks of great Art, and of a wonderful human being.