Topic: Ennis's last words "Jack, I swear . . . "

[tpe]

Hi everyone....i'm new to this forum and BBM. I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and opinions on the "Jack, I swear..." thread

I believe it's an oath as well. I makes so much sense to me. Or maybe it's the best way for me to cope with my sadness for these two characters. My heart breaks for Ennis, in this scene. He has found what so many seek, yet never find (even in today's society) and that is true love, only it's too late.

 :\'( :\'( :\'( need to get my tissues

Welcome, heatherh7878. 

I think the taking of oaths is a deep way of reassuring oneself against the vagaries/cruelties of fate.  It is a heart of any marriage vow to reassure oneself and each other that no matter what misfortunes may come along in the futire, one is resolved to carry on. 

I do think this was the way for Ennis to keep himself tru to the memory of Jack and their love.  True, it was too later -- bit perhaps it now means much more to Ennis (and to us): that he resolves to stay true to something even though all is lost.

 

[FlwrChild]

That's beautifully put tpe.

And maybe that makes the vow even more powerful, because it's a much more difficult one both to keep and to endure.

[tpe]

Yes, I think the vow is more powerful because it is devoid of hope. 

There is nothing to make him keep it.  There is a lifetime to endure.

[jackster]

. . . this was the way for Ennis to keep himself true to the memory of Jack and their love . . . . . he resolves to stay true to something even though all is lost.

Yes, very wonderfully put thomas.
This is at the heart of Ennis isn't it? For all his faults and foibles, he was if nothing else, faithful, faithful to the end.

[lancecowboy]

Yes, very wonderfully put thomas.
This is at the heart of Ennis isn't it? For all his faults and foibles, he was if nothing else, faithful, faithful to the end.

Yes, I think the vow is more powerful because it is devoid of hope. 

There is nothing to make him keep it.  There is a lifetime to endure.

That's beautifully put tpe.

And maybe that makes the vow even more powerful, because it's a much more difficult one both to keep and to endure.

Thanks, Jackster, tpe, FlwrChild, you all have captured the essence of why Ennis' last scene was so poignant and powerful for me... :\'(

He was faithful. He could endure the unendurable. He could stand what couldn't be fixed. He could change into a man in touch with his own feelings. He found peace even when he was in pain, but I think, he also held on to hope, caressing Brokeback Mountain with his thumb, hoping one day, to spend eternity with Jack there.

That's the image that has been holding me together this last week. I'd be lost like a ship without a rudder without this other gift from Heath. The man was amazing, endlessly.

[jackster]

That's the image that has been holding me together this last week. I'd be lost like a ship without a rudder without this other gift from Heath. The man was amazing, endlessly.

Yeah LC, I guess in some ways this past week we all see ourselves standing there looking at a picture of Heath with tears in OUR eyes.

[babytammy7]

Andrew, Jackster, that's so beautiful friends..... :\'( :\'( :\'(

Thank you so much!!!

[tpe]

Yes, very wonderfully put thomas.
This is at the heart of Ennis isn't it? For all his faults and foibles, he was if nothing else, faithful, faithful to the end.

If there is something that he was consistent throughout, it was indeed faithfulness.  It is a faithfulness that transcended death.  For Ennis, his faithfulness was inseparable from his love.

[tpe]

He was faithful. He could endure the unendurable. He could stand what couldn't be fixed. He could change into a man in touch with his own feelings. He found peace even when he was in pain, but I think, he also held on to hope, caressing Brokeback Mountain with his thumb, hoping one day, to spend eternity with Jack there.

Hope plays such constrasting roles in the lives of Jack and Ennis, and there is a subtle irony that Jack, who was the carrier of that hope early on in the relationship, probably lost it in the end, whereas Ennis, who could not believe in hope early on, would finally be the refuge of that hope after Jack's death.

I don't think this is unintentional.  I think it is the bridge on whcih one thing is passed from one to the other.

[myprivatejack]

Hope plays such constrasting roles in the lives of Jack and Ennis, and there is a subtle irony that Jack, who was the carrier of that hope early on in the relationship, probably lost it in the end, whereas Ennis, who could not believe in hope early on, would finally be the refuge of that hope after Jack's death.

I don't think this is unintentional.  I think it is the bridge on whcih one thing is passed from one to the other

Yes,Thomas,again there's an irony,I don't know if subtle,but that now gets the dimension of tragic.I also believe that the main irony-inhumane in this case-is that the character that embodied the guarantee of this final hope,has lost the man who gave it life;whereas the character who lost his hope and his life at the end,is being embodied by a man who I do hope will be alive and well during years and years...
For me,this scene has now a complete new meaning,another dimension-also and too tragic-and I'll never watch it in the same way again.

[tpe]

Yes,Thomas,again there's an irony,I don't know if subtle,but that now gets the dimension of tragic.I also believe that the main irony-inhumane in this case-is that the character that embodied the guarantee of this final hope,has lost the man who gave it life;whereas the character who lost his hope and his life at the end,is being embodied by a man who I do hope will be alive and well during years and years...
For me,this scene has now a complete new meaning,another dimension-also and too tragic-and I'll never watch it in the same way again.

Which goes back to what I said a few posts back -- nothing is more poigniant than a vow taken in the face of tremendous loss.  It becomes infinitely more meaningful.  It is as close as you will ever get to truth.

[myprivatejack]

It's sure that Ennis last words were mainly a vow of love and the commitment he hadn't got when Jack was alive;but it has been said also that is a phrase open to many interpretations and meanings.In this sense,I wonder if this was a kind of saying that he was to begin a new life,accepting himself just like he was.It's said that we don't know what we have until we lose it;and we know then what we have,WHAT WE ARE AND WHAT WE FEEL...Does Ennis mean that he has came to terms with his own sexuality and he is able to live it in a not so guilty way?.More concretely,would Ennis be able to open himself enough as to have a relationship with another man in the future?.
Well,in the s.s. beginning we see He's alone several years after Jack's death;and that he's united emotionally to his lover's memories,who is alive and by his side only in his dreams.He's alone,yes,but in this very moment of the story;had he could have a relationship,even if it was only a mere sexual relief,as Jack's Mexican hustlers?Or,on the contrary,this irony we talked about with Thomas,could make him being more closed,protected into his shield?.The irony of protecting themselves against being murdered by their sexuality by ending in the same way however,is a way of telling Ennis he was right? Or a way to telling him "do as you please because you have only one life and you must live it by yourself before it's too late?".
We've seen also how Ennis lives a kind of "coming out" precisely with the persons whose reaction could have been more violent:Jack's wife and parents.And he feels as more free,more himself than ever before...So,I ask:could it be his last phrase like-"Jack,I swear...I'm going to be myself from now onwards.I'm going to live as I feel,faithful to your memory,but in the way you taught me I was"?.

[tpe]

It's sure that Ennis last words were mainly a vow of love and the commitment he hadn't got when Jack was alive;but it has been said also that is a phrase open to many interpretations and meanings.In this sense,I wonder if this was a kind of saying that he was to begin a new life,accepting himself just like he was.It's said that we don't know what we have until we lose it;and we know then what we have,WHAT WE ARE AND WHAT WE FEEL...Does Ennis mean that he has came to terms with his own sexuality and he is able to live it in a not so guilty way?.More concretely,would Ennis be able to open himself enough as to have a relationship with another man in the future?.
Well,in the s.s. beginning we see He's alone several years after Jack's death;and that he's united emotionally to his lover's memories,who is alive and by his side only in his dreams.He's alone,yes,but in this very moment of the story;had he could have a relationship,even if it was only a mere sexual relief,as Jack's Mexican hustlers?Or,on the contrary,this irony we talked about with Thomas,could make him being more closed,protected into his shield?.The irony of protecting themselves against being murdered by their sexuality by ending in the same way however,is a way of telling Ennis he was right? Or a way to telling him "do as you please because you have only one life and you must live it by yourself before it's too late?".
We've seen also how Ennis lives a kind of "coming out" precisely with the persons whose reaction could have been more violent:Jack's wife and parents.And he feels as more free,more himself than ever before...So,I ask:could it be his last phrase like-"Jack,I swear...I'm going to be myself from now onwards.I'm going to live as I feel,faithful to your memory,but in the way you taught me I was"?.

You know, I have thought about the dream sequences many times in conjunction with the "I swear" scene where Ennis takes his vow.  From the dream sequences (apparently) years later, it would seem that Ennis had become more withdrawn into his own world, living in a world of dreams, so to speak.   And yet, we can't also resist the temptation of interpreting these sequences as a kind of inner "liberation" for Ennis -- that he is no longer afraid to dream, even if sometimes, he wakes up in tears.    Surely, the good and the bad loom large in those dreams, but it is perhaps one manifestation of how Ennis kept his vow to Jack: that by keeping him alive inside, he remains faithful to his memory and to their love.

[Halenfarewell]

I love what you have written Ryan and agree with you completely. 
Ann
(formerly of Vancouver, WA)

[myprivatejack]

You know, I have thought about the dream sequences many times in conjunction with the "I swear" scene where Ennis takes his vow.  From the dream sequences (apparently) years later, it would seem that Ennis had become more withdrawn into his own world, living in a world of dreams, so to speak.   And yet, we can't also resist the temptation of interpreting these sequences as a kind of inner "liberation" for Ennis -- that he is no longer afraid to dream, even if sometimes, he wakes up in tears.    Surely, the good and the bad loom large in those dreams, but it is perhaps one manifestation of how Ennis kept his vow to Jack: that by keeping him alive inside, he remains faithful to his memory and to their love.

Yes,he promised to remain faithful to Jack's memory and to their love,you're right.And this promise comes from Ennis half-liberation of his feelings about him.I say "half" because we see how he "comes out",I repite,before the persons who could feel more aggressive against him and the relationship they could guess he had with their son and husband,respectively.Isn't it a great step to do for Ennis?-bearing in mind his fears-.But I think Ennis always had allowed himself to dream with Jack,even with this "sweet life" together,because it's what he wished,but never did he allow himself to let these dreams turn into relativity's his,their tragedy-.But,I keep on asking:Do you think this means Ennis really come to terms with his sexuality,as to make it become a real chance in his day-to-day life?

[tpe]

MPJ, would you think that the scene in the closet in Jack's room could be interpreted as the first "I swear" scene -- or at least the wordless precursor?    And if I understand what you say here, the last "I swear" scene is only half the story -- that it was made only possible by what happened in LF...

[myprivatejack]

MPJ, would you think that the scene in the closet in Jack's room could be interpreted as the first "I swear" scene -- or at least the wordless precursor?    And if I understand what you say here, the last "I swear" scene is only half the story -- that it was made only possible by what happened in LF...

Well,in some way not only the closet scene,but all the sequence in Twists home could be seen as a precursor of the last "I swear...".Ennis has begun a journey to his self-knowledge and acceptation,that never could be made being Jack's alive-or at least,never had been posed seriously...-.The rest of Ennis´story without Jack begins,obviously,with this last vow and we only pretend to know how this vow can be applied in his day-to-day life.For this reason,I asked in my former post if it could be like a promise to Jack's memory,but also to himself to live as he learned to be thanks to Jack;or it would be only a way to promise him eternal love,but hidden as ever.I mean,not being a real "wind of change" in Ennis way of seeing and living his sexuality.

[tpe]

Well,in some way not only the closet scene,but all the sequence in Twists home could be seen as a precursor of the last "I swear...".Ennis has begun a journey to his self-knowledge and acceptation,that never could be made being Jack's alive-or at least,never had been posed seriously...-.The rest of Ennis´story without Jack begins,obviously,with this last vow and we only pretend to know how this vow can be applied in his day-to-day life.For this reason,I asked in my former post if it could be like a promise to Jack's memory,but also to himself to live as he learned to be thanks to Jack;or it would be only a way to promise him eternal love,but hidden as ever.I mean,not being a real "wind of change" in Ennis way of seeing and living his sexuality.

I do think that the simple fact of finally getting himself to go to LF signals a major change within Ennis.  Jack had of course wanted all along for Ennis to come with him to LF.  As you imply, perhaps this is a posthumous acknowledgement on Ennis's part -- an acknowledgement that finally comes to words in the final "jack, I swear..."?

[aintfoolin]

 Been lurking again ,but I agree with this, Ennis is finally  finding out that Jack was not only offering him love but a  second chance at having  a family.  He found Mrs. Twist inviting,  accepting, even invited him back.  Mr. Twist...well maybe with a little mutual understanding , he would have been able to at least respect his son's choices , as long he was allowed to think he was still  in charge  of the place, and that they were not  going to force the relationship down his throat. Time can change things, and  slowly chip away  at  walls. I feel Ennis may have eventually gained his respect if not fully accepting two men being partners. (cringe, did I say that?) These two stubborn mules were more alike in their way of thinking than not. He now realizes that coming to LF with Jack , might not have been so dreadful after all. He knows how much Jack hoped to have him there.  Now he knows the possibilities have been lost, what might have been..  What he found there, was something he could work with and  maybe live with after all. Am I wrong here?

 He could have easily said * Damn Jack, had I known then what I know now, I would have thought twice about it*  "Jack, I swear", You knew it all along..  Too bad Jack had to die for him to realize it. 2 cents.

[tpe]

Been lurking again ,but I agree with this, Ennis is finally  finding out that Jack was not only offering him love but a  second chance at having  a family.  He found Mrs. Twist inviting,  accepting, even invited him back.  Mr. Twist...well maybe with a little mutual understanding , he would have been able to at least respect his son's choices , as long he was allowed to think he was still  in charge  of the place, and that they were not  going to force the relationship down his throat. Time can change things, and  slowly chip away  at  walls. I feel Ennis may have eventually gained his respect if not fully accepting two men being partners. (cringe, did I say that?) These two stubborn mules were more alike in their way of thinking than not. He now realizes that coming to LF with Jack , might not have been so dreadful after all. He knows how much Jack hoped to have him there.  Now he knows the possibilities have been lost, what might have been..  What he found there, was something he could work with and  maybe live with after all. Am I wrong here?

 He could have easily said * Damn Jack, had I known then what I know now, I would have thought twice about it*  "Jack, I swear", You knew it all along..  Too bad Jack had to die for him to realize it. 2 cents.

I do think that it was at LF that Ennis got to know what a "life together" really meant.  The discover of the shirts pretty much told him what it meant to Jack, most certainly...

It must have somehow hit Ennis really hard in the end -- this realization of what he had pushed away for so long until it was too late.  Somehow, I think Jack's mother felt what Ennis was feeling, and tried to reach out.

The "I swear" is an affirmation of this belated realization, the same way that the simple act of taking the shirts stood for an affirmation -- an affirmation that I think Mrs. Twist understood.

[Matt Nasty]

hi i thought this line was so sad i dint really understand fully i mean what was he swearing? but anyway you can tell the emotion in the words so the meaning was still there

[myprivatejack]

hi i thought this line was so sad i dint really understand fully i mean what was he swearing? but anyway you can tell the emotion in the words so the meaning was still there

IMO,this line is the confirmation of Ennis commitment he never had being Jack still alive;a commitment with himself to change his way of seeing and living life,a kind of find himself in the end.But, as you've could see before and as so many scenes of the movie,the interpretation is open to each one's opinion and feelings.

[heathlover1]

IMO,this line is the confirmation of Ennis commitment he never had being Jack still alive;a commitment with himself to change his way of seeing and living life,a kind of find himself in the end.But, as you've could see before and as so many scenes of the movie,the interpretation is open to each one's opinion and feelings.

For me, the last line of "Jack, I swear," was just short for, "Jack, I swear, if I had only known, I would have done it all differently. He realized what a huge mistake he made all of those years. And if he had one more chance, he would do it all different." , but he didn't know how much Jack really loved him or how much he loved Jack until it was too late; nor could he ever have imagined how painful it would be knowing that he would never see him again. .

I never really questioned that line too much, because I felt certain that's what he meant.

We'll never know.

[Matt Nasty]

its great how we all ahve such varying opinions but all make so much sense 

[myprivatejack]

its great how we all ahve such varying opinions but all make so much sense 

And I think it has been made intentionally,because they are some words opened to as many interpretations as viewers can have.Everyone has their own ,according to their feelings and their way of being and living life and each one of them has a very complete and logical sense.But if we look at them,we'll see as their final result is that Ennis swears to change his behaviour;both if he could  have another opportunity then, or from this very moment onwards.

[Matt Nasty]

im listening to the sountrack right now so listening to some of these posts make me so sad im nearly crying lol

[heathlover1]

im listening to the sountrack right now so listening to some of these posts make me so sad im nearly crying lol

I know the feeling.

[Matt Nasty]

I know the feeling.

i think most people here do thats one of the wonders of the forum

to me the significanse of the comment of "jack i swear..." is that ennis has finally commited himself to jack in someway even if we cant be sure what way that is he finally swore something to jack a promise i dont think ennis ever did that before.

[heathlover1]

i think most people here do thats one of the wonders of the forum

to me the significanse of the comment of "jack i swear..." is that ennis has finally commited himself to jack in someway even if we cant be sure what way that is he finally swore something to jack a promise i dont think ennis ever did that before.

Kind of a version of my thoughts.

[Matt Nasty]

Kind of a version of my thoughts.

you see i told you i was mature for my age and not a kid  lol only joking im over that now