Topic: Ennis's last words "Jack, I swear . . . "

[myprivatejack]

MPJ  !

Yes, that was my point exactly. LOVE statement coming form Ennis, sad and exhausted by a lonely life, feeling partially guilty for losing Jack and finally realizing that he had actually loved Jack all those years and that he will love him forever!!! That kind of love statement, in the case of strong and enduring character like Ennis was /is, can also mean a vow of devotion and fidelity forever! And if we really want to translate that into the words of marriage vows- they are the same vows ... if not Ennis's "I swear" even more powerful! 

Yes,and as you say,in the case of persons like Ennis,this means a stronger and never endless feeling.That's the power of love¡-even if it's too late...-.

[tpe]

Oh!

Hm... it could be a vow, but marriage vow..

Maybe a vow of eternal fidelity and devotion of any kind?

Well, this was exactly what I was getting at.    But I would like to use the image of a marriage, given the context of that scene (Jr's marriage.)

[vedrana]

Well, this was exactly what I was getting at.    But I would like to use the image of a marriage, given the context of that scene (Jr's marriage.)

I see what you mean - that he was influenced by Junior's news and made a vow to Jack himself.... That's also acceptable.

[tpe]

I see what you mean - that he was influenced by Junior's news and made a vow to Jack himself.... That's also acceptable.

OT: although that last scene was not in the ss, I found it incredibly crafted -- certainly an addition that does full justice to the original.

[vedrana]

OT: although that last scene was not in the ss, I found it incredibly crafted -- certainly an addition that does full justice to the original.

I see much more things to add to the original...

Yet, we have to cope with what we have. 

[tpe]

I see much more things to add to the original...

Yet, we have to cope with what we have. 

In any case, I think that the use of the words "I swear..." after a scene revolving around love, commitment, and marriage, is very strongly suggestive suggestive, don't you agree? 

[myprivatejack]

In any case, I think that the use of the words "I swear..." after a scene revolving around love, commitment, and marriage, is very strongly suggestive suggestive, don't you agree? 

I agree,yes...These two words are taking inside them a lot of love and commitment;always and forever,although their greatest contradiction-tragic contradiction-is that they're a post-mortem vow... :\'( :\'( :\'(

[athena0204]

"Jack, I swear that I've always loved you, and I always will."
"Jack, I swear that if I could start over, I would do things differently this time, I would listen to my heart."
Ennis finally realizes that his fear kept him a prisoner all those years, and kept him miserable, living only for the few weeks every year he would be with Jack. He realizes that Jack was right, they didn't have to accept and feel trapped. That it could be like this, always, just like Jack had said. He finally gets the courage, but it's too late Jack is gone from this world. But there would be a day where they would reunite in a better place and be together forever this time without all the pain and heartache and cruelty of this world. After all they suffered, they deserve that eternal happiness. And their love transcends just one life and one world, it is eternal, their souls are forever bonded. "Jack, I swear this love is eternal."

[jstephens9]

"Jack, I swear that I've always loved you, and I always will."
"Jack, I swear that if I could start over, I would do things differently this time, I would listen to my heart."
Ennis finally realizes that his fear kept him a prisoner all those years, and kept him miserable, living only for the few weeks every year he would be with Jack. He realizes that Jack was right, they didn't have to accept and feel trapped. That it could be like this, always, just like Jack had said. He finally gets the courage, but it's too late Jack is gone from this world. But there would be a day where they would reunite in a better place and be together forever this time without all the pain and heartache and cruelty of this world. After all they suffered, they deserve that eternal happiness. And their love transcends just one life and one world, it is eternal, their souls are forever bonded. "Jack, I swear this love is eternal."

Is this what the window looking out into the field represents that one day they will reunite in a better place. That last scene looking out into that field through the window has always baffled me. It seems to represent something very important.

[vedrana]

"Jack, I swear that I've always loved you, and I always will."
"Jack, I swear that if I could start over, I would do things differently this time, I would listen to my heart."
Ennis finally realizes that his fear kept him a prisoner all those years, and kept him miserable, living only for the few weeks every year he would be with Jack. He realizes that Jack was right, they didn't have to accept and feel trapped. That it could be like this, always, just like Jack had said. He finally gets the courage, but it's too late Jack is gone from this world. But there would be a day where they would reunite in a better place and be together forever this time without all the pain and heartache and cruelty of this world. After all they suffered, they deserve that eternal happiness. And their love transcends just one life and one world, it is eternal, their souls are forever bonded. "Jack, I swear this love is eternal."

Beautifully said Athena! Especially the red part! You melt my heart! 

[vedrana]

Is this what the window looking out into the field represents that one day they will reunite in a better place. That last scene looking out into that field through the window has always baffled me. It seems to represent something very important.

Yes, I tend to accept that! Looking farther than the trailer window, much much farther - to another space and time, the one where and when they'll finally be one! 

[athena0204]

Is this what the window looking out into the field represents that one day they will reunite in a better place. That last scene looking out into that field through the window has always baffled me. It seems to represent something very important.

Yes, that scene is very poignant. I feel that's what it represents too. That one day, far beyond this world, in another time and in another place they will be together again. Their love is truly eternal, and you know that Ennis will live out the rest of this life looking forward to the day he will be reunited with his soulmate.

[ethan]

you know that Ennis will live out the rest of this life looking forward to the day he will be reunited with his soulmate.

This line just brings tears in my eyes. It didn't have to be that way.  :\'(

[athena0204]

This line just brings tears in my eyes. It didn't have to be that way.  :\'(

It could have been different in this life, but their love surpasses and transcends far beyond this world and this life, and Ennis would always take comfort in knowing that he would see his beloved Jack again.

[jstephens9]

I am glad others of you see this scene looking out the window that way too. When I first saw it I thought it meant that Jack was still out there somewhere alive. But in a way it does mean that, but possibly it is his spirit that is still alive especially in Ennis' heart.

[athena0204]

The scene is one of looking away into a far-off place, transcending that field, that horizon, and this world. In this world, Jack is gone, but his spirit remains in Ennis's heart. But somewhere out there in another world, another plane, another dimension,  Jack is alive and waiting for Ennis to join him again. And the same goes for Ennis, in that wherever Jack is, Ennis is in his heart as well, and they are both waiting for the time when they will be reunited.

[jstephens9]

The scene is one of looking away into a far-off place, transcending that field, that horizon, and this world. In this world, Jack is gone, but his spirit remains in Ennis's heart. But somewhere out there in another world, another plane, another dimension,  Jack is alive and waiting for Ennis to join him again. And the same goes for Ennis, in that wherever Jack is, Ennis is in his heart as well, and they are both waiting for the time when they will be reunited.

I don't think you could have expressed that any better. No only do I think that is true, but the way you put it is abolutely incredible. You're bringing tears to my eyes  :\'(

[myprivatejack]

I don't think you could have expressed that any better. No only do I think that is true, but the way you put it is abolutely incredible. You're bringing tears to my eyes  :\'(

What he said¡ :\'(  Yes,is something we have discussed in the thread that treats about the kind of comfort Ennis could find in the memories of having lived such a great love and the hope of finding his beloved one more time in a place when they would be happy and free in the end.However,it's something very sad that they hadn't found this happiness together in this world...

[tpe]

I agree,yes...These two words are taking inside them a lot of love and commitment;always and forever,although their greatest contradiction-tragic contradiction-is that they're a post-mortem vow... :\'( :\'( :\'(

Yes.  It must have made Ennis feel a little bitter to see/hear his daughter make an avowal that he himself couldn't do in jack's lifetime.  But perhaps bitterness is not the correct way of describing something that is closer to the feeling of regret...

[athena0204]

Yes.  It must have made Ennis feel a little bitter to see/hear his daughter make an avowal that he himself couldn't do in jack's lifetime.  But perhaps bitterness is not the correct way of describing something that is closer to the feeling of regret...

Yeah I don't think it was bitterness, just a lot of sorrow and regret. It's clear he's thinking about Jack, and feeling miserable that he hadn't listened to Jack and listened to his heart all those years ago when he could have belonged to his dreams. He's thinking "I should have told Jack how much I loved him", but of course surely he knew that Jack had known all along how much Ennis loved him. But there is definitely a lot of sorrow and regret and sadness that Ennis feels because he realizes things could have been different, that he didn't have to let his fear keep him a prisoner.

[lancecowboy]

Yeah I don't think it was bitterness, just a lot of sorrow and regret. It's clear he's thinking about Jack, and feeling miserable that he hadn't listened to Jack and listened to his heart all those years ago when he could have belonged to his dreams. He's thinking "I should have told Jack how much I loved him", but of course surely he knew that Jack had known all along how much Ennis loved him. But there is definitely a lot of sorrow and regret and sadness that Ennis feels because he realizes things could have been different, that he didn't have to let his fear keep him a prisoner.

I agree with you 100%, Athena. Ennis was overwhelmed with a yearning to love Jack, to show Jack what he felt all those years, but was too afraid, like hugging him face-to-face, which he could only do now with the shirts.

Bitterness has the connotation of resentment, which, in my opinion, is not in Ennis, the man who could stand it, who was happy with beans. Jack was bitter and resentful, especial in his older years, when he lost hope of changing his conditions. Ennis was bitter in the final confrontation, responding to Jack's "I wish I knew how to quit you." But Ennis was past bitterness when he sent and received that postcard, when he phoned Loreen, when he went to visit Lightning Flats. When he sat at that kitchen table facing the old man, he was desperate to hold on to something of Jack. The depth of his grief made the gift of the shirts by Jack's Ma all the more powerful, and life-changing. From the moment Ennis descended those stairs with their own rhythm, he was a changed man.

[tpe]

Yes, thinking about this right now, I do feel that bitterness is not the correct way to describe it.  It is a deep and profoundly felt sadness that comes from an equally deep and profoundly felt regret.  And in the midst of that deep sadness, there is the glimmer of a newfound hope.

[lancecowboy]

Yes, thinking about this right now, I do feel that bitterness is not the correct way to describe it.  It is a deep and profoundly felt sadness that comes from an equally deep and profoundly felt regret.  And in the midst of that deep sadness, there is the glimmer of a newfound hope.

I love that phrase. It reminds me of Romeo and Juliet...what light through yonder window breaks? 

[tpe]

I love that phrase. It reminds me of Romeo and Juliet...what light through yonder window breaks? 

Thanks lance!  Now that you mentioned it -- it certainly does! 

[lancecowboy]

Thanks lance!  Now that you mentioned it -- it certainly does! 

It has a rhythm all its own, like those rickety stairs up the Twist house in Lightning Flats.

What light through yonder window breaks
In that empty trailer outside Riverton
The glimmer of a new found hope, I swear.

[atalley]

I agree with you 100%, Athena. Ennis was overwhelmed with a yearning to love Jack, to show Jack what he felt all those years, but was too afraid, like hugging him face-to-face, which he could only do now with the shirts.

Bitterness has the connotation of resentment, which, in my opinion, is not in Ennis, the man who could stand it, who was happy with beans. Jack was bitter and resentful, especial in his older years, when he lost hope of changing his conditions. Ennis was bitter in the final confrontation, responding to Jack's "I wish I knew how to quit you." But Ennis was past bitterness when he sent and received that postcard, when he phoned Loreen, when he went to visit Lightning Flats. When he sat at that kitchen table facing the old man, he was desperate to hold on to something of Jack. The depth of his grief made the gift of the shirts by Jack's Ma all the more powerful, and life-changing. From the moment Ennis descended those stairs with their own rhythm, he was a changed man.

I love this!  Here come the tears...

[tpe]

It has a rhythm all its own, like those rickety stairs up the Twist house in Lightning Flats.

What light through yonder window breaks
In that empty trailer outside Riverton
The glimmer of a new found hope, I swear.

OT: perhaps it is time for you to get back into the pix and poems thread! 

[lancecowboy]

OT: perhaps it is time for you to get back into the pix and poems thread! 

Double OT: I've stayed out of that thread for precisely the same reason that I stay out of other threads that bring on PBS. Enough tears already. I am taking a break from the pain, and basking for a while in the joy and the sun.

Perhaps later in the winter season when depression hits, and my mood is blue again, the therapeutic process of putting words to feelings will help lift the blues. 

[rdx]

Just another € 0.02 worth of information..

In my country the movies on TV are subtitled (thank god) and the translator has had some artistic freedom while typing the last line. Translating it back to English it goes: "Jack, I wish you knew.." [or word by word "Jack, if only you knew.."]. In my mother tongue it makes perfect sense while still leaving the meaning somewhat open and lets the viewer make his/her own conclusions.

***

Someties while watching the film I occasionally put on the French subtitles..Jack saying all the time "M*rde!" and Ennis "On fait quoi maintenant, hein?".

Just to have a little bit of fun with this remarkable and profound film that has affected / will affect so many...

[lancecowboy]

Now you make me very curious about your language, but I also understand your preference for privacy. With the smaller populations in some countries in the north, it is wise.

And to give you back the two cents worth (keeping the difference  between cents and Euro) while I appreciate the version "Jack, if only you knew..." I prefer the simpler, yet richer "Jack I swear."

The translator's version points to the past only, and is more restricted than the movie's version, which can also imply a commitment for the future. The more ambiguous version is also consistent with Ang Lee's decision to leave out Jack's murder sequence, except as "thoughts" by Ennis.

This ambiguity allows the audience to choose their own interpretation, and make the movie great. Too much detail can prune out more meaningful possibilities and starve the audience imagination. I think Brokeback Mountain is great art precisely because it stimulates the audience to think, and imagine the meaning behind every word, every scene, every little element in each scene, every word in the scanty dialog.

Welcome rdx and I look forward to more of your thoughts on the movie.