Topic: Ennis's last words "Jack, I swear . . . "

[heathlover1]

you see i told you i was mature for my age and not a kid  lol only joking im over that now

Actually, I told you that you were mature for your age!

[Matt Nasty]

Actually, I told you that you were mature for your age!

oh well never mind the details lol.

anyway we better get back on topic, oops its so easy for you to feel what you are saying is connected to the topic when it isnt

[heathlover1]

oh well never mind the details lol.

anyway we better get back on topic, oops its so easy for you to feel what you are saying is connected to the topic when it isnt

We are off topic with two posts and two sentences. We should be allowed a couple slips!

[athena0204]

When Ennis says, "Jack...I swear...", he means that he wishes he could turn back time, or he wishes he could have another chance, and start over, this time, he would do things right. This time, he would listen to Jack. This time, he would never let Jack out of his sight, he would always be with him. This time, he wouldn't live in sorrow and despair all those years, wishing he could be free, but always afraid of taking that chance.

[myprivatejack]

When Ennis says, "Jack...I swear...", he means that he wishes he could turn back time, or he wishes he could have another chance, and start over, this time, he would do things right. This time, he would listen to Jack. This time, he would never let Jack out of his sight, he would always be with him. This time, he wouldn't live in sorrow and despair all those years, wishing he could be free, but always afraid of taking that chance.

Yes,it's what I said in a former post;no matter which interpretation each one of us give to this phrase.The final result is an Ennis commitment with himself and with Jack's memory to change his patterns of life;he would have changed them if he could turn back time,or he would change from this moment onwards.

[Matt Nasty]

i think it would be impossible to know for sure what ennis was swearing to jack it could have been "jack i swear, if i go thte chance i would do things differently", "jack i swear, i have always loved you", "jack i swear, i wish you were here with me".
we will never know what he was swering it could be anything but at the end of it all i think the words are not the point the real point is the emotion on some level ennis' "jack i sewar..." was some form of emotional commitment something ennis never gave to jack in life.

[athena0204]

i think it would be impossible to know for sure what ennis was swearing to jack it could have been "jack i swear, if i go thte chance i would do things differently", "jack i swear, i have always loved you", "jack i swear, i wish you were here with me".
we will never know what he was swering it could be anything but at the end of it all i think the words are not the point the real point is the emotion on some level ennis' "jack i sewar..." was some form of emotional commitment something ennis never gave to jack in life.

Yeah, it means all those things. It just sums up all the powerful emotions Ennis was feeling, knowing he'd truly loved Jack since the day they'd met all those years ago, knowing he would do things right if he had another chance, knowing that he'd lost the one person he truly loved and regretting that he never told Jack exactly how much he meant to him...although I know Jack knew how much Ennis loved him.

[Matt Nasty]

Yeah, it means all those things. It just sums up all the powerful emotions Ennis was feeling, knowing he'd truly loved Jack since the day they'd met all those years ago, knowing he would do things right if he had another chance, knowing that he'd lost the one person he truly loved and regretting that he never told Jack exactly how much he meant to him...although I know Jack knew how much Ennis loved him.

yes jack did no that is one thing that never botherd me i knew ennis never said to jack the words "i love you" but jack just new ennis did i mean it was clear even if ennis didnt admit it to himself in the beggining

[B_Mountain_Girl]

Ennis left Jack’s parent house holding the shirts, the expression of eternal love for him, more important than Jack’s remains.
He had something real to touch and to hold until the end of days.

In my heart I believe “Jack, I swear” means that when Ennis would die, he and those shirts would be cremated and the ashes scattered on BBM as Jack’s final wish, finally together.

[tpe]

Ennis left Jack’s parent house holding the shirts, the expression of eternal love for him, more important than Jack’s remains.
He had something real to touch and to hold until the end of days.

In my heart I believe “Jack, I swear” means that when Ennis would die, he and those shirts would be cremated and the ashes scattered on BBM as Jack’s final wish, finally together.

This is a very romantic interpretation.

But who would scatter their ashes?  Would it be Jr.?

[myprivatejack]

Ennis left Jack’s parent house holding the shirts, the expression of eternal love for him, more important than Jack’s remains.
He had something real to touch and to hold until the end of days.

In my heart I believe “Jack, I swear” means that when Ennis would die, he and those shirts would be cremated and the ashes scattered on BBM as Jack’s final wish, finally together.

This is a very romantic interpretation.

But who would scatter their ashes?  Would it be Jr.?

Wonderful and romantically sad¡ Who did it? Jr. or someone of Ennis relatives who knew his wishes,of course.And maybe he dared to confess the truth at the same time; and Jr. understood it and respected it...

[jedibarrister]

Both the story and the screenplay had this as the closing of the saga.  AP says that Jack never asked him to swear and that Ennis wasn't the swearing kind.  Clearly she didn't mean they didn't cuss...cuz they did.  So by "swear", what did AP mean?

Swear has other definitions, including solemn declaration/oath, to give evidence, or testify.  Is this Ennis finally almost saying, for the first time, out loud that he loves Jack?  Or is he promising that he'll never live in fear again?  Or is he promising him that he'll try to live for once?

[lancecowboy]

Both the story and the screenplay had this as the closing of the saga.  AP says that Jack never asked him to swear and that Ennis wasn't the swearing kind.  Clearly she didn't mean they didn't cuss...cuz they did.  So by "swear", what did AP mean?

Swear has other definitions, including solemn declaration/oath, to give evidence, or testify.  Is this Ennis finally almost saying, for the first time, out loud that he loves Jack?  Or is he promising that he'll never live in fear again?  Or is he promising him that he'll try to live for once?

I am not sure, but I believe this discussion has been covered in another thread. Perhaps someone can find the appropriate thread and a moderator can merge them.

In short, I recall there was much discussion on the topic.

As you said, the meaning of swearing is not necessary profanity. It could be a solemn promise, an oath even. I think it means a solemn promise because to cowboys like Ennis and Jack, their words were sufficient, without any swearing. To swear, is to signify an importance that transcends over all else.

To me, "I swear" refers to Ennis' declaration to do right by Jack, to take his ashes one day back to Brokeback Mountain, despite his old man's objection. It is Ennis' way of making up to Jack, for rejecting his sweet life, so that one day, he and Jack can share sweet eternity together on Brokeback Mountain.

Just my two bits worth.

[jackster]

To me, "I swear" refers to Ennis' declaration to do right by Jack, to take his ashes one day back to Brokeback Mountain, despite his old man's objection. It is Ennis' way of making up to Jack, for rejecting his sweet life, so that one day, he and Jack can share sweet eternity together on Brokeback Mountain.

Beautifully put Andrew (as usual). And yes, this topic has been discussed a lot at http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=4966.210. You might want to take a peek at the beginning of this thread LC as it was started early, 30 Dec 2005, by a Vancouverite, with a very touching essay that en capsules the way this movie has touched so many of our lives.

[lancecowboy]

Beautifully put Andrew (as usual). And yes, this topic has been discussed a lot at http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=4966.210. You might want to take a peek at the beginning of this thread LC as it was started early, 30 Dec 2005, by a Vancouverite, with a very touching essay that en capsules the way this movie has touched so many of our lives.

Thanks, Jackster, for the kind words, and the direction to that thread. I am late to the movie (Sept, 2007) and this forum. There are still threads that I have not fully explored. Looking at that thread, I realized that during 'em early days of PBS, I only touched on it briefly. It's good to revisit with a fresh and more relaxed attitude.

[lancecowboy]

Thanks, Jackster, for pointing out this thread and this post in particular. However, as I tried posting to it, I got the following message:

The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

So I am posting my reply here instead:

Howdy bhebbe,

Hmmm, I didn't think of the story as having the two parts you described until you described it.  I didn't notice Ennis asking more questions in the movie or speaking more affectionately to Jack than he always have done.  I did noticed that he withdrew more and more into himself towards the end of the movie to the point it looks like it pains him to speak. 

But, I would agree with you that the relationship was going in a positive direction since Ennis decided to dump his second girlfriend after the last meeting with Jack.  I don't know whether he would ever dump Jack in years to come as all indications showed that not only he has spent the last twenty years seeing Jack, but he also looked quite excited to see Jack's final postcard. 

Yes! Now that you mentioned it, Ennis was happy, and "quite excited" walking out of the post office with that postcard. The subtle body language of Heath's performance at that moment, light on his feet, with a spring in his step, a hint of a smile walking into the sunlit afternoon promised a happy time. The contrast, as the significance of that word stamped on the card, as we see his shoulders hunched and collapsed, held deathly still, shocked, makes the preceding moment of hope and desires coming to a crashing halt. It was genius.

We are never given the reasons why Ennis decided to go cold turkey on his second girlfriend and like most of the movie, it is up to our interpretation.  My interpretation is that he didn't wish to live a lie anymore and hurt the people around him.  One would have thought that he would have learnt his lesson after Alma, but he went on dating a girl again.  We are also not told why he would do that, but perhaps he still has not learnt his lesson the first time.   However, there was something about his last meeting with Jack that made him change his mind regarding his relationship with the new girl in his life.  He didn't want to date her anymore. 

And we might never know why, whether it's because

1 - he wants to live more honestly.

2 - he realized that he does not need to lead life the way he's been told how and he began thinking outside the box.

3 - he wishes to spend the rest of his days with Jack and realizes that in order to do this, he needs to dump her.

4 - he realized that he cannot spend the rest of his life living the way he is now and needs to make some changes to improve his life and how he feels about himself.

5 - he can't bring himself to hurt people anymore after Jack expressed the pain and suffering caused by enduring the past twenty years, that he does not want another the same way he has hurt Jack, the one he truly loves. 

I'm leaning towards this last interpretation because I emphatize the pain other people experience, whether I like it or not. However, one thing is for change, after the last meeting with Jack, Ennis did change and this is reflected in his choice to quit the second girl like a bad habit.  How he changed is up to our interpretation. 

I am of the opinion that the reasons are closer to 3 and 4. There may be elements of 5 as well, but his ignoring her messages and notes, avoiding her calls, hurt her just as much. If he was truly concerned for Cassie, he would have been more straight forward with Cassie and broke off with her. Then again, it may be simply his way, and she got the message in any case, and it still hurt her.

That brings me to ask, why do you think Ennis broke up with his second girlfriend?  Or more precisely, what do you think it was about his last meeting with Jack that made him change his mind to dump the girl?

Tell me what you think.   

Ryan

It's why I lean towards 3 and 4. The final confrontation made him more aware of his love for Jack. With the child support payment, the money he spent with Cassie makes it even more difficult for him to get away with Jack to some place warm. Ennis was ready to move closer to Jack. But he moves slowly, as Jack knew so well in those twenty years.

[ethan]

Beautifully put Andrew (as usual). And yes, this topic has been discussed a lot at http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=4966.210.

The quoted thread has been merged with this thread. LC, the post jackster referred to is the first post of this thread. Thanks!

[lancecowboy]

The quoted thread has been merged with this thread. LC, the post jackster referred to is the first post of this thread. Thanks!

Thanks, Ethan. It's amazing reading my own words from not so long ago. It's like a life time away.

[jedibarrister]

I posted this awhile ago on IMDB (this version is updated a little) ...

Considering that this line comes from Ennis (Ennis being ... well Ennis) , I can't help but get the feeling that when he says "Jack' I swear" that he says it without really knowing how to finish it. In other words he is swearing to him, but he doesn't know why. After all he is just start to come out of denial in regards to his feeling for Jack and you know that feeling when you want to comfort someone, to tell them that everything is going to be alright but you can't find the words that you want to say to them? I think that's how he feels in that scene. He wants to swear something to Jack but can't find the word to say it.

Anybody?

I subscribe to this to an extent.  Because at that point, what promises can he make Jack that will mean anything?  The time to come through and make/keep promises were in the past.  All he had now were memories and a crappy trailer he'd be losing b/c the job that he wouldn't give up for more time with Jack was giving him up instead.  So there were many ways to finish the sentence: Jack, I swear...

• I did love you
• I am sorry
• I'd do things differently
• I'll never forget you

But does it matter what he would've said?  Or does it matter that Jack will never hear him say it?

[tpe]

I subscribe to this to an extent.  Because at that point, what promises can he make Jack that will mean anything?  The time to come through and make/keep promises were in the past.  All he had now were memories and a crappy trailer he'd be losing b/c the job that he wouldn't give up for more time with Jack was giving him up instead.  So there were many ways to finish the sentence: Jack, I swear...

• I did love you
• I am sorry
• I'd do things differently
• I'll never forget you

But does it matter what he would've said?  Or does it matter that Jack will never hear him say it?

I agree to this, except with the "did" in "I did love you". 

In a way, it mattered more to say it to himself (i.e., Ennis).  Likewise, Jack must have known it all along.   

[jedibarrister]

MPJ, would you think that the scene in the closet in Jack's room could be interpreted as the first "I swear" scene -- or at least the wordless precursor?    And if I understand what you say here, the last "I swear" scene is only half the story -- that it was made only possible by what happened in LF...

Was that scene a meta-statement?  Did Ennis show real depth of love and emotion for Jack because he was "in the closet" and hence safe from public scrutiny and view?

[lancecowboy]

Was that scene a meta-statement?  Did Ennis show real depth of love and emotion for Jack because he was "in the closet" and hence safe from public scrutiny and view?

That's an interesting point of view. I had thought of that, in the sense that the two shirts were "in the closet", but I think Ennis wasn't hiding the two shirts, as Jack did, in a hidden corner of the closet, but in plain view, next to a postcard of Brokeback Mountain.

I don't recall if he opened the closet in that scene, but he put away Junior's sweater in it. Presumably, when Junior comes to visit again, he would fetch the sweater, and the shirts would be visible to Junior in that tiny trailer. I suspect Ennis wasn't hiding his love for Jack anymore, but simply keeping it private, without trumpeting it to the whole world, but also not denying it from his loved ones.

There is probably an unspoken understanding between him and Junior that he and Jack worked together one summer on Brokeback Mountain, and their relationship meant a lot to him. As others pointed out, "This Kurt, does he love you?" conveyed automatically to Junior that Ennis was also thinking of the love he lost.

So, in response to your question, I think that scene is indeed a meta-statement on the closet, and the state of Ennis being out of the closet to himself and his loved ones. The love and acceptance from Jack's Ma gave him strength, and comfort to be the man that he is, loving Jack. The fact that the door can still be closed to the outside world, is a statement that Ennis is not out, in the sense of joining the Pride parade anytime soon.

I don't know if that makes sense.

[tpe]

Was that scene a meta-statement?  Did Ennis show real depth of love and emotion for Jack because he was "in the closet" and hence safe from public scrutiny and view?

Interesting.

Extending the metaphore, I would think that he was in an "open" closet.  I think he was out of public "scrutiny", and yet he probably was at the point of not caring as much.  I think his decision to ask for the shirts would have signaled something in this direction.  He could have chosen not to have taken them -- the significance would have perhaps been known to Mrs. Twist, in not John Twist (although both may have had an inkling).  But he did.  And when he faced the Twists, it was clear that he had been weeping.  At that point, perhaps he didn't really care to show his emotions?

[vedrana]

Interesting.

Extending the metaphore, I would think that he was in an "open" closet.  I think he was out of public "scrutiny", and yet he probably was at the point of not caring as much.  I think his decision to ask for the shirts would have signaled something in this direction.  He could have chosen not to have taken them -- the significance would have perhaps been known to Mrs. Twist, in not John Twist (although both may have had an inkling).  But he did.  And when he faced the Twists, it was clear that he had been weeping.  At that point, perhaps he didn't really care to show his emotions?

I think so too!

IMO, after Jack died, the priorities in his life changed forever. He treasured the memory of Jack without any fear, or hiding, which was his main preoccupation, when Jack was alive and when someone could've discover about two of them. Now, even if anyone knew something, it was a part of his past and couldn't hurt him/or Jack any more.

[tpe]

I think so too!

IMO, after Jack died, the priorities in his life changed forever. He treasured the memory of Jack without any fear, or hiding, which was his main preoccupation, when Jack was alive and when someone could've discover about two of them. Now, even if anyone knew something, it was a part of his past and couldn't hurt him/or Jack any more.

Yes, I do believe that there was a fundamental shift within Ennis after Jack's death.  The "I swear..." part is a significant though tantalizing hint of this shidt, and I tend to think that it was for the better, rather than for the worse...

[vedrana]

Yes, I do believe that there was a fundamental shift within Ennis after Jack's death.  The "I swear..." part is a significant though tantalizing hint of this shidt, and I tend to think that it was for the better, rather than for the worse...

Would you say that the meaning of it was in fact the love statement... it was always my impression!

[tpe]

Would you say that the meaning of it was in fact the love statement... it was always my impression!

I've always interpreted it as a kind of marriage vow. 

[vedrana]

I've always interpreted it as a kind of marriage vow. 

Oh!

Hm... it could be a vow, but marriage vow..

Maybe a vow of eternal fidelity and devotion of any kind?

[myprivatejack]

Oh!

Hm... it could be a vow, but marriage vow..

Maybe a vow of eternal fidelity and devotion of any kind?

IMO,these words mean a lot of things,both referring to Jack and to Ennis future change of behaviour.As regards to this "marriage vow",even if it couldn't be a real one,why couldn't it be in an emotional sense?.Why couldn't Ennis make a vow of faithfulness and eternal love and care,just like the husband and wife make in a conventional wedding?.What really matters is not the ceremony,nor the papers,but LOVE.And this was present between them and in Ennis forever... :\'(

[vedrana]

IMO,these words mean a lot of things,both referring to Jack and to Ennis future change of behaviour.As regards to this "marriage vow",even if it couldn't be a real one,why couldn't it be in an emotional sense?.Why couldn't Ennis make a vow of faithfulness and eternal love and care,just like the husband and wife make in a conventional wedding?.What really matters is not the ceremony,nor the papers,but LOVE.And this was present between them and in Ennis forever... :\'(

MPJ  !

Yes, that was my point exactly. LOVE statement coming form Ennis, sad and exhausted by a lonely life, feeling partially guilty for losing Jack and finally realizing that he had actually loved Jack all those years and that he will love him forever!!! That kind of love statement, in the case of strong and enduring character like Ennis was /is, can also mean a vow of devotion and fidelity forever! And if we really want to translate that into the words of marriage vows- they are the same vows ... if not Ennis's "I swear" even more powerful!