Author Topic: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers  (Read 28132 times)

Offline *Froggy*

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For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« on: Dec 29, 2005, 08:05 AM »
Some of you had the chance to see BBM more than once...

What did you notice more during the second/third... viewings?
Did you pay more attention to certain scenes?
Did you focus on one character more?
Did you see things you had not before?

 :-* Froggy
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Offline brokebackmountain

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #1 on: Dec 29, 2005, 10:45 PM »
Some of you had the chance to see BBM more than once...

What did you notice more during the second/third... viewings?
Did you pay more attention to certain scenes?
Did you focus on one character more?
Did you see things you had not before?



Since I have seen the movie 4 times, I am suitable to answer these questions and will try my best to answer them.  ;D  :'(

I went to 4 different theaters in NYC each time. (BTW, this is the movie that you don't want to see on DVD) Those close-ups and scenaries are just great to see on big screen.

The first time I went to see with a friend and SO. I was not really prepared and didn't go with any expectation. It was just entertainment on one day after work and then had dinner. Being not knowing anything really - I was more focused on the dialogues and story. It was hard to understand sometimes, especially Ennis. (But if you have read the short story, it should be easy). The audience was annoyed by the theatre for not dimming the light for about the first 10 minutes of movie. It was kind of distracting when people were shouting "Turn off the f...light" from everywhere. I saw the movie as a whole - not really noticing anything but left wonder with a lot of questions and emotionally overwhelmed. It didn't hit me until I left the theatre and really sobbing on the street of New York City.

The 2nd and 3rd viewing were just to really *enjoy* the movie or indulge myself so to speak. I paid more attention to the technical aspects of the movie and the acting because I already know the stories. I did feel that some acting did not flow well or the characters not being consistent during 20 years of relationship. If there is a weakest link in the movie, it would be Jack's mom, I think. I also noticed there were a lot of close-ups. I also paid more attention to the quick flash of Jack's death. On the screen, the person being attacked looks like Jack. (But of course we don't know if it was a real event or just in Ennis mind).

The 4th viewing which was this afternoon. I didn't pay too much attention to the acting and I paid attention to the surrounding of the characters. I notice Heath piercing on his left ear (because I remember seeing him wearing an earing) Maybe you could see his tatoos too if you pay close attention. I enjoy every bit of love scenes and I could watch them again and again.

Also, it tore me apart knowing the last scene that Jack and Ennis's last time together. My heart was racing and wrenching too. I notice in the office where Lureen is working has her dad's portait hanging in the center of the wall. I also saw the photo next to the bed where Lureen just had a baby - it was Jack and Lureen but don't know what occasion it was.

After 4 viewings...I am still trying to figure the bonding relationship between Ennis and Jack. I wish the movie spent more time on their happiness at Brokeback Mountain. Maybe a pre-quel of BBM. Just a dream.

I also notice that the wife who Jack invited to dance and could not stop talking probably has the most words in the entire movie. She just could not shut up.

In any way, I like it the way it is - subtle and powerful. A movie that without many spoken words could move many of us is unbelievable.

Sorry for the long post.



Born from their love..forever bound by ours.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #2 on: Dec 29, 2005, 10:48 PM »
After 4 viewings...I am still trying to figure the bonding relationship between Ennis and Jack. I wish the movie spent more time on their happiness at Brokeback Mountain. Maybe a pre-quel of BBM. Just a dream.

Well why not..i'm ok with it too!

Sorry for the long post.

Perfect..thank you so much for writing it!!!  :-*
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Offline Toadily

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #3 on: Dec 30, 2005, 01:12 AM »
The second time I noticed more subtle things like their intial attractions etc. 
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
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Offline Guns_goin_off

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #4 on: Dec 30, 2005, 02:38 AM »
Not that I am a perv or anything, but the first time I saw it, the first sex scene seemed a lot faster. I was happy to see the subtleties the second time around. I think that scene is so brilliantly acted, with many different emotions, urges and instincts.

Offline ennisandjack

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #5 on: Dec 30, 2005, 02:38 AM »

In any way, I like it the way it is - subtle and powerful. A movie that without many spoken words could move many of us is unbelievable.


Thanks for your post. There seems to be many layers to this film which is interesting. I also plan on seeing this movie a number of times partly because I plan to drag everyone I know to it, lol.

The quietness of the film is actually really intriguing to me as is the mysteriousness of Ennis and Jack's relationship. Without having seen it I still feel from your description and others that this film is a true piece of art, especially in the way it allows people  to interpret and experience the film differently. I love the big screen too, and seeing the film with a great audience.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #6 on: Jan 01, 2006, 03:52 PM »
Thankx guys...anyone else?
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Offline stationbbm

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #7 on: Jan 01, 2006, 09:51 PM »
I saw it a second time and was more intently focused on Ledger's every move.  His cowboy, clinched lip, his Western mannerisms, his eye contact, how he handled his hat, his ability to relate to Jack, then Alma, his daughters -- I wanted to fully appreicate the way Ledger transforms Ennis over time.  Truly awesome.  Watch for Ledger running over in an alley with stomach pangs from seeing Jack drive away...pounding his fist and head into the wall...How many of us have been fraught with emotion, but just couldn't let it surface?... and then let it go after he/she has left?  We've all been there.  Ledger grabs you and throws you over with his amazing ability to reach out.

Clothing...the second time there seemed to be a constant reference to clothing... bloodied shirts, lost shirts, lost parkas, the discovery of the two shirts and then the final scene with Ennis's daughter leaving her sweater...there's something about clothing...perhaps all foreshadowing for the scene that grabs you at Jack's parent's home...

There were other subtleties that multiple viewings will reveal...Guess I'll have to see it again.

Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #8 on: Jan 03, 2006, 03:29 PM »

I notice in the office where Lureen is working has her dad's portait hanging in the center of the wall. I also saw the photo next to the bed where Lureen just had a baby - it was Jack and Lureen but don't know what occasion it was.

The picture you refer to seems to show Jack and Lureen holding the prizes they won from the first time they met.  The screenplay does imply (from the announcer's lines at the rodeo) that Jack's was the winning ride when Lureen was watching.

The screenplay also indicates that their home in the Thanksgiving scene shows numerous pictures of Laureen but only one picture of Jack.  One could not really tell from the scene in the movie whether this was followed.
 
Quote
In any way, I like it the way it is - subtle and powerful. A movie that without many spoken words could move many of us is unbelievable.

Sorry for the long post.


No need to be sorry.  I enjoyed your post very much.

I guess in my case, I tried to locate the changes made to the original screenplay throughout the movie, or additional lines invented by the actors on the spot. 

Some of these changes were not that important, but the one addition that struck me the most was during the climactic scene when Ennis and Jack hug during their last fight together. 

In the screenplay, Jack first approaches Ennis and is pushed back (Ennis: 'Get the f*** off me!')  The second time Jack approaches Ennis, he is not pushed back, and they hug 'mightily'.  Throughout this scene, Jack says: 'Come here... It's all right...  Damn you, Ennis.'  But at this point, Ledger (Ennis) interjects the most poigniant addition to the screenplay (an ad lib?) -- something that goes like: 'Jack, I can't stand this anymore.'

It is searing to hear this line at that point of their deperate embrace -- and devastating to realize that it is just seconds before that most beatific scene in the movie: the 'embrace from behind' flashback!!!!!

Truly devastating.

Offline stationbbm

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #9 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:02 PM »
TPE:

Is the memorable "embrace from behind" a flashback or was it the next day when they were ending their final fishing trip? For some reason, I thought it was the latter with Ennis riding off on his horse...I bet you are right.  Weren't they wearing the BBM clothing in that scene?  This confirms my passion for wanting to see this a third time; subtleties that I didn't catch...

stationbbm

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #10 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:04 PM »
TPE:

Is the memorable "embrace from behind" a flashback or was it the next day when they were ending their final fishing trip? For some reason, I thought it was the latter with Ennis riding off on his horse...I bet you are right.  Weren't they wearing the BBM clothing in that scene?  This confirms my passion for wanting to see this a third time; subtleties that I didn't catch...

stationbbm

GO go go..and take notes even...that's what i'll do after my first viewing..go again, and again and again!
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Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #11 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:10 PM »
TPE:

Is the memorable "embrace from behind" a flashback or was it the next day when they were ending their final fishing trip? For some reason, I thought it was the latter with Ennis riding off on his horse...I bet you are right.  Weren't they wearing the BBM clothing in that scene?  This confirms my passion for wanting to see this a third time; subtleties that I didn't catch...

stationbbm

stationbbm, I would see the movie many times over just for this memorable scene.  To me, it is the pivot on which the entire story turns.

The original story does not give it as a flashback.  The story discusses this after their last fight, as a kind of coda to Jack who is soon to be announced as deceased.  The beautiful paragraph begins something like this:  What jack Jack searched for and craved the most was...[the description of the embrace follows here.]  I think changing this into a flashback was pure cinematic genius, at it acts as a kind of katharsis to the climactic fight scene, as in classical Greek tragedy.  Proulx herself would be hard pressed to criticize this change!

Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #12 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:17 PM »
stationbbm, I should also indicate for clarity that the screenplay labels it as a falshback.  And you are right.  They are wearing the fabled shirts underneath the coats. :)

Offline stationbbm

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #13 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:21 PM »
Great feedback...you have clearly done your homework on this...Cannot comment on classical Greek tragedy, but will make sure that I watch the embrace from behind scene more carefully.  I loaned out my copy of "Open Range" to a friend and so will need to get this back so that I can fully appreciate the sequencing of the movie vs. the short story.  I've never done these forums before and so this has been a tremendous learning journey for me.

stationbbm

Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #14 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:30 PM »
Great feedback...you have clearly done your homework on this...Cannot comment on classical Greek tragedy, but will make sure that I watch the embrace from behind scene more carefully.  I loaned out my copy of "Open Range" to a friend and so will need to get this back so that I can fully appreciate the sequencing of the movie vs. the short story.  I've never done these forums before and so this has been a tremendous learning journey for me.

stationbbm

stationbbm, I highly recommend that you get a copy of the screenplay.  It is on amazon.com right now.  You won't regret it!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743294165/qid=1136323556/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-7096610-1390356?s=books&v=glance&n=283155



In addition to the original story and the screenplay, it contains 3 wonderful essays from the authors and some nice black and white photos (some are publicity photos).

I used to have the 1997 New Yorker that contained the original publication.  I will hit myself on the head if I realize that I have not stored it away somewhere!

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #15 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:41 PM »
I loaned out my copy of "Open Range" to a friend and so will need to get this back so that I can fully appreciate the sequencing of the movie vs. the short story.

This is the only online link to a Brokeback Mountain online version...i'll update it in a bit, if i find a better one

 [url]http://pviktor.co.uk/p_viktor_/files/brokeback_mountain.pdf/url]
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2006, 04:49 PM by frog123 »
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Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #16 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:48 PM »
This is the only online link to a Brokeback Mountain online version...i'll update it in a bit, if i find a better one

 http://pviktor.co.uk/p_viktor_/files/brokeback_mountain.pdf

Thanks frog123.  This online version should come in handy, especially making a quick reference.  I will look into it and post the 'embrace' paragraph for comparison with the movie.
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2006, 04:49 PM by frog123 »

Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #17 on: Jan 03, 2006, 04:56 PM »
The fight and embrace scenes, from the online version (thanks again frog123)  Contrast this with the movie.  I think the screenplay made very wonderful additions to this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I got a say this to you one time, Jack, and I ain't foolin. What I don't know," said Ennis, "all them things I don't know could get you killed if I should come to know them."

"Try this one," said Jack, "and I'll say it just one time. Tell you what, we could a had a good life together, a fu**in real good life. You wouldn't do it, Ennis, so what we got now is Brokeback Mountain. Everthing built on that. It's all we got, boy, fu**in all, soI hope you know that if you don't never know the rest. Count the damn few times webeen together in twenty years. Measure the fu**in short leash you keep me on, then ask me about Mexico and then tell me you'll kill me for needin it and not hardly never gettin it. You got no fu**in idea how bad it gets. I'm not you. I can't make it on a couple a high-altitude fucks once or twice a year. You're too much for me, Ennis, you son of a whoreson bitch. I wish I knew how to quit you."

Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable -- admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears -- rose aroundthem. Ennis stood as if heart-shot, face grey and deep-lined, grimacing, eyes screwed shut, fists clenched, legs caving, hit the ground on his knees.
 
"Jesus," said Jack. "Ennis?" But before he was out of the truck, trying to guess if it was heart attack or the overflow of an incendiary rage, Ennis was back on his feet and somehow, as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car and then bent again toits original shape, they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they'd said was no news. Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved.

What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understandwas the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger. They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddychunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis's pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis's breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something elsedrowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still useable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, "Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you're sleepin on your feet like a horse," and gave Jack a shake, a push, andwent off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words "see you tomorrow," and the horse's shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never gotmuch farther than that. Let be, let be.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline stationbbm

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #18 on: Jan 03, 2006, 08:16 PM »
TPE/Frog123:

I DO need to get a copy of the screenplay, the New Yorker article, my "Open Range" book and eventually my own DVD of BBM.  This entire set needs to come together so that when I decide to retire, I can approach some local junior college who will let me do a full course on BBM....Hmmmm....I can already see loads of essays, persuasive essays, begging fresh college minds to stretch their boundaries and embrace Ms. Proulx's amazing work.  Sorry for meandering...these were all good suggestions...

Grateful.
stationbbm

Offline natalia

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #19 on: Jan 03, 2006, 10:02 PM »
TPE/Frog123:

I DO need to get a copy of the screenplay, the New Yorker article, my "Open Range" book and eventually my own DVD of BBM.  This entire set needs to come together so that when I decide to retire, I can approach some local junior college who will let me do a full course on BBM....Hmmmm....I can already see loads of essays, persuasive essays, begging fresh college minds to stretch their boundaries and embrace Ms. Proulx's amazing work.  Sorry for meandering...these were all good suggestions...

Grateful.
stationbbm
college course on BBM? sign me up!
Give me your hand
And take what you will tonight, I'll give it as fast
And high as the flame will rise
Cinder and smoke
Some whispers around the trees
The juniper bends
As if you were listening

Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #20 on: Jan 04, 2006, 08:34 AM »
TPE/Frog123:

I DO need to get a copy of the screenplay, the New Yorker article, my "Open Range" book and eventually my own DVD of BBM.  This entire set needs to come together so that when I decide to retire, I can approach some local junior college who will let me do a full course on BBM....Hmmmm....I can already see loads of essays, persuasive essays, begging fresh college minds to stretch their boundaries and embrace Ms. Proulx's amazing work.  Sorry for meandering...these were all good suggestions...

Grateful.
stationbbm

I would not be surprised if this film is one for the books.  Which leads me to a question I would want to pose to all forumers: is the film revolutionary in some significant way and what do you think makes it so revolutionary?  (Perhaps I should pose this as a separate thread?)

I have heard said that it is revolutionary because of the film's treatment of gay love as the springboard for a meditation on universal love (both eros and agape, if you will).  This view seems to resonate with me.  I know that Gyllenhaal (and to some extent, Ledger) has raised a bit of a ruckus when he stated in an interview that he did not believe that the chararcters were gay.  I think that, to a certain extent, he may have been unconsciously echoing Whitman by implying that such a love is more universal than what the character's very specific desires adn preferences seem to indicate.  I can't point to any other film that achieves this broad meditation from a very specific context so beautifully as Brokeback.

Thoughts anyone?

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #21 on: Jan 04, 2006, 06:28 PM »
I've stated in another post that I think this is touching people not because it is revultionary but cause it's not...it's so basic, the need to love and be loved.  Finding ones way within society and parental rules.  The return to home, I mean note all the first scenes are about making dinner, washing shirts, doing ones job and love and making love...and then loss and redemption.  Sounds like a very human story to me.  Nothing radical there.  Ok, they are two men...but it's not like that isn't standard now in mainstream America, we just now accept it.


  Plus it's just a good movie, it's got great cinematography, acting, directing, it has humor at times. 

Damn..>I want to see it again!  Make it 5 times then!
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Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #22 on: Jan 04, 2006, 06:34 PM »
I've stated in another post that I think this is touching people not because it is revultionary but cause it's not...it's so basic, the need to love and be loved.  Finding ones way within society and parental rules.  The return to home, I mean note all the first scenes are about making dinner, washing shirts, doing ones job and love and making love...and then loss and redemption.  Sounds like a very human story to me.  Nothing radical there.  Ok, they are two men...but it's not like that isn't standard now in mainstream America, we just now accept it.


  Plus it's just a good movie, it's got great cinematography, acting, directing, it has humor at times. 

Damn..>I want to see it again!  Make it 5 times then!

Yes, I do think it is a good movie that builds beautifully on a wonderful short story and screenplay. 

In her website, Proulx mentioned that she may be the FIRST author whose literary work has been served so faithfully and elaborated upon so imaginatively on film (i.e., the move from short story to film was most perfect).  Perhaps in this sense, one can consider it groundbreaking.

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #23 on: Jan 04, 2006, 06:42 PM »
In her website, Proulx mentioned that she may be the FIRST author whose literary work has been served so faithfully and elaborated upon so imaginatively on film (i.e., the move from short story to film was most perfect).  Perhaps in this sense, one can consider it groundbreaking.

Thankx for that i now have added more info in "From Page to Screenplay!"
i.e The FAQ on BBM
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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #24 on: Jan 05, 2006, 11:49 PM »
I have only seen it twice, but between the first and second times, I had read everything I could, found whatever screencaps, clips, trailers, *anything* that would remind me of the movie and feed the inexplicable hunger that had developed for it since I first saw it.

When I went to see it a second time, I was very excited.  I couldn't wait.  There were things that I told myself I was going to look out for, and having seen a couple of movies in the past twice in the theatres, I believed that I would meet with success.

I was wrong.

By the time they were on Brokeback Mountain, I realized that I had let the story slide by without any savoring.  I was almost annoyed at myself, but then I realized - this is the mark of a work of cinematic art.  I couldn't extricate myself from the movie enough to savor anything - I was drawn head-over-heels into the story and the characters' lives so it was impossible for me to step *outside* with more of a critical eye or a fan's eye, i.e. "ooh, this part's coming up, I love this part!"  I think the ONE thing I caught was that after Ennis throws Jack into the wall to kiss him after 4 years, Jack gets this wide-eyed expression for a split second that seems to say "holy s***, I wasn't expecting that!" and "what I wanted most from you but didn't dare to hope for, so stand back cause you're gonna get what's coming to you!"  Other than that, I couldn't notice a darned thing, other than that ubiquitous theme that plays on the trailer and in all the specials - "The Wings", last cut of the soundtrack - plays during the passing of years - Alma finding a postcard and not giving it to Ennis, Ennis doing some low-paying ranch work, etc.  Since that theme has been marketed to represent their relationship, I found its placement rather odd.

However, it plays in the last moments of the movie, which is where it matters, so I guess it's all good.  :P

Offline natalia

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #25 on: Jan 05, 2006, 11:52 PM »
That definitely is the mark of a good movie!
The third time I saw it, I had had my second viewing less than 24 hours earlier so I think that I was able to focus more on the "savouring" part of watching BBM and that's when I really noticed all the subtleties that went into making them look older and the pained little noises that Lureen makes when she's speaking to Ennis on the phone which are barely audible
Give me your hand
And take what you will tonight, I'll give it as fast
And high as the flame will rise
Cinder and smoke
Some whispers around the trees
The juniper bends
As if you were listening

skallywalla

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #26 on: Jan 06, 2006, 12:05 AM »
That definitely is the mark of a good movie!
The third time I saw it, I had had my second viewing less than 24 hours earlier so I think that I was able to focus more on the "savouring" part of watching BBM and that's when I really noticed all the subtleties that went into making them look older and the pained little noises that Lureen makes when she's speaking to Ennis on the phone which are barely audible

Yes, I forgot, I noticed those, too!  Those are great - especially the one she makes to Ennis' strained "we was herdin' sheep up there one summer".  Ann(e??) Hathaway does some very effective, subtle acting in that scene - she basically sums up her view of their marriage, her view of Jack, "where blue birds sing and there's a whiskey spring", and how she's dealing with his death and the circumstances surrounding it.

did you also notice the noise Ennis makes when he receives the returned postcard with that horrible stamp of "DECEASED" on it??  That was something else I didn't notice before.  With as little as he talks, you sit up and listen when he makes any kind of noise, so I thought it was very telling just what reading that one word did to him. :'( 

Offline Toadily

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #27 on: Jan 06, 2006, 12:20 AM »
I have only seen it twice, but between the first and second times, I had read everything I could, found whatever screencaps, clips, trailers, *anything* that would remind me of the movie and feed the inexplicable hunger that had developed for it since I first saw it.

When I went to see it a second time, I was very excited.  I couldn't wait.  There were things that I told myself I was going to look out for, and having seen a couple of movies in the past twice in the theatres, I believed that I would meet with success.

I was wrong.

By the time they were on Brokeback Mountain, I realized that I had let the story slide by without any savoring.  I was almost annoyed at myself, but then I realized - this is the mark of a work of cinematic art.  I couldn't extricate myself from the movie enough to savor anything - I was drawn head-over-heels into the story and the characters' lives so it was impossible for me to step *outside* with more of a critical eye or a fan's eye, i.e. "ooh, this part's coming up, I love this part!"  I think the ONE thing I caught was that after Ennis throws Jack into the wall to kiss him after 4 years, Jack gets this wide-eyed expression for a split second that seems to say "holy s***, I wasn't expecting that!" and "what I wanted most from you but didn't dare to hope for, so stand back cause you're gonna get what's coming to you!"  Other than that, I couldn't notice a darned thing, other than that ubiquitous theme that plays on the trailer and in all the specials - "The Wings", last cut of the soundtrack - plays during the passing of years - Alma finding a postcard and not giving it to Ennis, Ennis doing some low-paying ranch work, etc.  Since that theme has been marketed to represent their relationship, I found its placement rather odd.

However, it plays in the last moments of the movie, which is where it matters, so I guess it's all good.  :P

You know this brings up an interesting point, even though Ennis was so withdrawn normally he does show that spontaneous affection at that time when they reunite-and then again at the fire holding scene.  It's like we see glimpses of this loving man. 
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Offline tpe

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #28 on: Jan 06, 2006, 08:27 AM »
That definitely is the mark of a good movie!
The third time I saw it, I had had my second viewing less than 24 hours earlier so I think that I was able to focus more on the "savouring" part of watching BBM and that's when I really noticed all the subtleties that went into making them look older and the pained little noises that Lureen makes when she's speaking to Ennis on the phone which are barely audible

Yes, I forgot, I noticed those, too!  Those are great - especially the one she makes to Ennis' strained "we was herdin' sheep up there one summer".  Ann(e??) Hathaway does some very effective, subtle acting in that scene - she basically sums up her view of their marriage, her view of Jack, "where blue birds sing and there's a whiskey spring", and how she's dealing with his death and the circumstances surrounding it.

did you also notice the noise Ennis makes when he receives the returned postcard with that horrible stamp of "DECEASED" on it??  That was something else I didn't notice before.  With as little as he talks, you sit up and listen when he makes any kind of noise, so I thought it was very telling just what reading that one word did to him. :'( 

natalia and  skallywalla,

Your comments about the little noises Lureen made are spot-on.  I thought that these noises expressed both a remote sadness on Lureen's part with having to re-live her life with Jack for a short moment, but I agree that I also interpreted these noises as the indication that 'SHE KNOWS!'

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: For the lucky buggers... - possible spoilers
« Reply #29 on: Jan 07, 2006, 06:15 AM »
Is the memorable "embrace from behind" a flashback or was it the next day when they were ending their final fishing trip? For some reason, I thought it was the latter with Ennis riding off on his horse...I bet you are right.  Weren't they wearing the BBM clothing in that scene?  This confirms my passion for wanting to see this a third time; subtleties that I didn't catch...

Its a flashback to their first summer together..Ennis says to Jack something like I'll see you tonight or in the morning..when he is finished with the sheep. That was a stunning scene...the center piece of their motivations for the next twenty years at least.
We can't change it. We will have to stand it.