Author Topic: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?  (Read 31855 times)

Offline chameau

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #30 on: Mar 16, 2006, 10:27 PM »
Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.

And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding.  The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again.  No other kids in 20 years?



I thought about this many times, that could explain Lurren's dad's behavior about Jack.  I would not pretend they never had  intercourse again after Bobby's birth.  From story to  screenplay (page71)

ENNIS

Lureen.  You and her , it's normal and all?

JACK

Sure.


This was very casual talking in the movie.  About he shotgun wedding I'm quite sure but the story leaves so much doors open to interpretation.
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline Patriot1

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #31 on: Mar 16, 2006, 10:44 PM »
Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.

And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding.  The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again.  No other kids in 20 years?



I thought about this many times, that could explain Lurren's dad's behavior about Jack.  I would not pretend they never had  intercourse again after Bobby's birth.  From story to  screenplay (page71)

ENNIS

Lureen.  You and her , it's normal and all?

JACK

Sure.


This was very casual talking in the movie.  About he shotgun wedding I'm quite sure but the story leaves so much doors open to interpretation.

Oh but Cham, Jack lied to Ennis so much.  He wanted Ennis to believe he was "normal."

Jack said he wasn't queer.  That was a lie.  He looked for other men all the time.  He went to Mexico. He tried to pick up the rodeo clown.

Jack didn't tell Ennis they were seen by Aguirre on Brokeback.  He didn't want Ennis to get upset and break off their relationship.

He said he was having an affair with the forman's wife when in fact it was the forman.

He wasn't about to tell Ennis his marriage was a sham and his marriage was not normal.

Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

Offline chameau

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #32 on: Mar 16, 2006, 10:48 PM »
Jack could have easily married Lureen because of an accidental pregnancy.

And I don't think it was an accident. I think Jack planned it that way. And I agree with you it was a shotgun wedding.  The reason I think it was planned is because there is no evidence he ever slept with his wife again.  No other kids in 20 years?



I thought about this many times, that could explain Lurren's dad's behavior about Jack.  I would not pretend they never had  intercourse again after Bobby's birth.  From story to  screenplay (page71)

ENNIS

Lureen.  You and her , it's normal and all?

JACK

Sure.


This was very casual talking in the movie.  About he shotgun wedding I'm quite sure but the story leaves so much doors open to interpretation.

Oh but Cham, Jack lied to Ennis so much.  He wanted Ennis to believe he was "normal."

Jack said he wasn't queer.  That was a lie.  He looked for other men all the time.  He went to Mexico. He tried to pick up the rodeo clown.

Jack didn't tell Ennis they were seen by Aguirre on Brokeback.  He didn't want Ennis to get upset and break off their relationship.

He said he was having an affair with the forman's wife when in fact it was the forman.

He wasn't about to tell Ennis his marriage was a sham and his marriage was not normal.



Very good point indeed! 
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline Toadily

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #33 on: Mar 16, 2006, 11:42 PM »
Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.
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Offline Patriot1

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #34 on: Mar 16, 2006, 11:45 PM »
Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.

Can't help but wonder if Ennis would have married Alma if he thought for one second Jack would contact him again.

Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

matsuki33

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #35 on: Mar 17, 2006, 01:40 AM »
Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.

Can't help but wonder if Ennis would have married Alma if he thought for one second Jack would contact him again.



there's a good point because in the short story he told jack that he shouldn't have let him go from his side and in the movie he was thinking he was upset becuase of the fight they had

Offline jason

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #36 on: Mar 17, 2006, 02:24 AM »
Yeah Ang Lee said Jack "Went along with the marriage" implying Jack knew it was a sham, where as Ennis really intended
to have a normal marriage with Alma.

Can't help but wonder if Ennis would have married Alma if he thought for one second Jack would contact him again.


there's a good point because in the short story he told jack that he shouldn't have let him go from his side and in the movie he was thinking he was upset because of the fight they had

Good thread --  but it shd be renamed Jack & Ennis' relationships, BTW.

My take, evaluating things after a 7th viewing, is that Ennis really couldn't seriously think of a life with another guy.  He could have moved away from his tight community but didn't --  during the first motel scene in the book they wonder about what guys do who find themselves in their predicament and Denver comes up as a place to flee to. But this was no reall possibility. I think E expected to be able to live a normal married life (regardless of how practical or not this expectation was!).

Even tho' he says he shdn't have let Jack out of his sights, Ennis never really acts on this.  I just don't think he thought of it as a real possibility ever. Even after the opportunity is presented to him in a shiny noo pickup truck FCOL,  Jack showing up honking in a cloud of dust asap after getting the divorce postcard.

Jack on the other hand isn't Ennis (as he says in the fight scene).  The subtle flirtations with the clown and foreman, which I totally missed at first, say a lot.  And don't forget he admits going to Mexico in the fight scene, which is why Ennis goes at him so hard. [The book suggests this admission actually changes their realtionship little since they know the main parameters of each others' lives, even if not the details.]
Let be, let be

Offline sam

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #37 on: Mar 17, 2006, 08:54 AM »
Yes, Jack "lies"...but don't forget the "WHY"...

There was so much "pressure" on his shoulders put on by the moral values of the '60's...  Don't forget that the story takes place over 40 years ago, and in a rural, rather than urban area!!!  Tolerance was then not at the level that it is for us now in 2006...

I think that Jack did what many other closeted gay men might have done in the same situation, and during that same time period...

We make do with what we have at the time...we make choices to the best of our abilities at that moment.

It's always easy to say "after-the-fact": "I should have done this..." or "I should have done that..." instead...
And don't forget that Jack must have been overwhelmed by emotions...

The movie gives us a right good impression of "how it really was"...and that is what gives it such a poignant significance, and makes BBM a historical milestone in Hollywood history.

sam

Once in a generation a movie comes along which changes the way we think about film...
"Brokeback Mountain" is that film.

Offline youbet

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Any significance of Jack keeping the shirts at Lightning flat ?
« Reply #38 on: Aug 17, 2012, 12:34 PM »
Well i find it extremely difficult to watch BBM till the end ... post Ennis's divorce and Jack sent back is ouch  :(.. Randall's presence WTF  :m}.. confrontation i sob .. Jack's death too much and shirts  :_(.. dont even ask
Well in between i have dared to watched till the very end and this question came across my mind .. why did jack keep his brokeback souvenirs .. in Lightning Flat and not in Childress ?? Is there any significance .. is it possible that he had initially kept them at childress then brought them back to LF? Was wondering if keeping the shirts on LF signifies a stronger personal bond or a gradual distancing

.. if this disucssion has already been covered please help me with the thread !
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Offline bluemountainsky

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Re: Shirts - why at jacks parents ?
« Reply #39 on: Sep 17, 2014, 12:54 PM »
 Well, after he left Brokeback in 1963, he still lived with his parents. He went home to them and hung the shirts in the closet. But that is not the only reason they remained there. He kept them there to keep them safe. His parents' home was the fixed place in his life that stayed the same, where he could go back to time and again, go up to his room, look out that window and dream as he did when was a boy. Everything in his room remained the same...therefore he put the shirts there because his room was the most sacred of places for him. There he kept the one thing that was most important in his life. He kept that love for Ennis safe and in a place where no one could ever take it away or harm it. The shirts are also symbolic because they hang in a closet. Symbolic of Ennis and Jack's relationship which was kept a secret. After Jack passed away, and Ennis went there, he took the shirts out of the closet...he carried them downstairs with him in full view of Jack's parents. For the first time in his life, he didn't care if anyone knew. He was finally open about what he and Jack shared. He took the shirts home with him and kept them in a place that was more open than a corner of a closet...he made it into a shrine.

He finally openly acknowledge the relationship and the love. He had come a long way from his usual reaction when he felt that people suspected...look how he yells at Alma and gets angry at the Thanksgiving scene. He used to feel so threatened when someone dared mention his and Jack's secret...confrontational, defensive. In the end, he doesn't anymore...he doesn't feel he has anything to hide anymore. He finally accepted himself fully, accepted that he'd been wrong to deny Jack the life together they deserved. He realized how much he had hurt Jack, and he realized that it was the best thing that ever happened to him, and he had been wrong to treat something so beautiful as if it was a dirty little secret. I always get the feeling Jack is watching over him in the end...smiling and thinking "I knew he'd come around some day." The shirts had been Jack's way of keeping Ennis in his heart forever, and then when Ennis takes them home and puts Jack's shirt inside his own, it means he is keeping Jack in his heart, in a safe sanctuary for all of time. The center pieces of his little trailer home becomes the two shirts...the memory in his heart of the best, most wonderful thing in an otherwise lonely, difficult, sad life, his true love with Jack.
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Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside."