Topic: "Hell, that's the most I've spoke in a year. "

[keren_b]

I don't know if it was discussed here (there are so many discussions about every line in the movie so I lost track!) but I think that this line by Ennis is a very meaningful hint to the special connection he has with Jack at that point. Ennis is such a closed person, he probably didn't know a lot of people he felt comfortable with enough to talk freely and tell his life story, and by saying this line he's actually admitting that Jack has made him talk the way nobody else did. I think it's a very clever way of the film makers to show us how close they've become, and how Jack has gotten into Ennis's heart.

another scene that always tears my guts (one of many) is when they're supposed to come down from the mountain (the first time) and Ennis just sits there by himself... it's so obvious that he doesn't wanna come down, he knows that means the end of their love story (at least that's what he thinks) and he doesn't want it to end. and the way Jack captures him with the lasso, it's so symbolic, because what he really wants is to capture his heart and make it his. I think at this point they're both in such agony, they're so frustrated and overwhelmed by feelings they can't express, they want to touch each other, they want to stay together but they don't know how to say it, and that's why they start hitting each other. in my opinion it was clear that Ennis had punched Jack not because he was angry at him but because he didn't know how to deal with his own pain and frustration. note that in the alley he hits the wall the same way - whenever he's in deep pain he had to hit something/someone.

p.s. english is not my language so forgive my mistakes if I have any...

[tpe]

Thank you keren_b for the beautiful post, and welcome to the forum.

Yes, parts of what you had said have been discussed, but there is no end to the richness that can be drawn from the scenes you indicated.

I agree completely.  The significance of Ennis opening up to Jack was recognized by both characters at that moment.  It was such a gradual build-up that I must say that the beginning part of the movie is superb in its quiet understatement as far as the blossoming relationship is concerned.

The lasso scene has been interpreted many ways (even as a reference to 'bondage' in earlier threads!)  But I love the way you say it:  it brings me to tears just reading it.

As I had mentioned in a previous post, observe the expression of Gyllenhaal's face before he goes up to Ennis/Ledger with the lasso.  To me, this is probably the most beautiful close-up of Jake's face in the entire movie.  It is beautiful because, in a single look, Gyllenhaal manages to convey all the love and understanding Jack has at that moment for the tortured Ennis.

Thanks.

[Patriot1]

As I had mentioned in a previous post, observe the expression of Gyllenhaal's face before he goes up to Ennis/Ledger with the lasso.  To me, this is probably the most beautiful close-up of Jake's face in the entire movie.  It is beautiful because, in a single look, Gyllenhaal manages to convey all the love and understanding Jack has at that moment for the tortured Ennis.

Oh you are so right tpe.  That look is beautiful.  I'm tellin' ya true, these two kids are better actors than some of the oldtime greats.  They are so aware of what the scene requires.  I love them so much.

[tpe]

As I had mentioned in a previous post, observe the expression of Gyllenhaal's face before he goes up to Ennis/Ledger with the lasso.  To me, this is probably the most beautiful close-up of Jake's face in the entire movie.  It is beautiful because, in a single look, Gyllenhaal manages to convey all the love and understanding Jack has at that moment for the tortured Ennis.

Oh you are so right tpe.  That look is beautiful.  I'm tellin' ya true, these two kids are better actors than some of the oldtime greats.  They are so aware of what the scene requires.  I love them so much.

Patriot1,  reading your posts, I KNOW that you understand and love them so.  Many thanks.

[keren_b]

oh god, that photo...

so much love in just one look. amazing.

[davidgray624]

Awww.. everything said about that photo is sooo true. But that's the thing about BBM : so much is said thru facial expressions, or actions, not words. It makes the film so much more powerful.

But moving on to the subject of this topic. That line that Ennis says "that is more than i have spoke in a  year." I think this is the first verbal sign of feelings towards Jack. Yeah.. there have been glances and such. BUt this is when Ennis is really saying " i want to be open with you. i want you to know about me." And its really kinda neat because Ennis has not known Jack that long at all and he is still more open to him than he is with Alma! The girl he is about to marry! If he hasn't spoken much in the last year he obviously hasn't spoken to Alma much.

[BBBOY]

p.s. english is not my language so forgive my mistakes if I have any...

keren, I would say that your English is excellent. You have certainly conveyed a lot of feeling in this post. I'd like to quote you a passage from Annie's story that I think conveys exactly what Ennis was feeling about Jack before the first tent scene, "They  were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected. Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon." Having been a young man like that too many years ago to comprehend I  can tell you what is like to have the hormones raging and not understanding what is going on. For an isolated and lonely boy like Ennis it was like finding the world. He finally had a friend and later he finally had more. Was he confused? You bet. And it took him almost 20years to figure it all out, and then it was too late. (I will not cry here!)

[keren_b]

Having been a young man like that too many years ago to comprehend I  can tell you what is like to have the hormones raging and not understanding what is going on. For an isolated and lonely boy like Ennis it was like finding the world. He finally had a friend and later he finally had more. Was he confused? You bet. And it took him almost 20years to figure it all out, and then it was too late. (I will not cry here!)

BBBOY, you put it so beautifully. And I think Annie's description, "felt he could paw the white out of the moon", is so beautiful and describes Ennis's feelings in a brilliant way - intoxicated, happy, and yet doesn't understand his feelings and can't put them into words. There is so much beauty in this love story, sometimes I can hardly stand it...  :'(

[tpe]

I agree.  Very beautifully put.

[proulxfan]

What a beautiful thread! I think this distills much of the essence of what makes Ennis and Jack's relationship and this film so profoundly moving. I have noticed in my last 2 viewings of the film the lines that Heath Ledger delivers just prior to this in Ennis's compressed autobiography:..."Me and my brother got work on a ranch up near Worland until I was 19. He got married last month. (pause) No room for me. (pause, stares at his cup) Anyway, that's how come me to end up here." It amazes me how much yearning and loneliness Ledger, within the confines imposed by the range of expression Ennis permits himself, manages to cram into those brief pauses here, particularly the second one. Ennis reveals himself as a profoundly lonely boy/man, seemingly without a friend in the world until Jack comes along. (I also love the wonderful spin Gyllenhaal puts on the lines: "Your parents just stop at Ennis?...Well, nice to know you, Ennis Del Mar!" I still haven't found the words to describe all that Jake brings to these key lines, but it is the invitation to life's dance that is being extended here along with Jack's hand, and Jake obviously caught that, and delivered them to convey it. And maybe old Ang helped a little too.) But I digress...Here Ennis does briefly reveal his inner vulnerability, the more striking because, before this, he has always been so careful to be on emotional lockdown, 24/7. And of course, Jack begins his response with :"Friend,..."  :'(
Re: the lasso scene at the end of their summer, I still note that Jack appears much less bothered by the fact that their summer is prematurely over. He seems quite matter-of-fact about it in comparison to Ennis and I am curious about that. Perhaps, as he is the more open and outgoing of the two, he is less emotionally needy than Ennis, and perhaps this is what enables him to step outside himself for the moment of that wonderful shot captured in the above photo, and to see and understand Ennis's confused/angry response to hearing the news.
Anyway, wonderful thread, and wonderfully expressed, karen_b. You need have no worrys about your English; it's quite fine.
And BBBOY, you are doing much better than I am if you can avoid getting misty when discussing this. Just when I think I am finally getting over my PBS, y'all have to go and post a thread like this and start it all over again! Oh well, I should be getting used to it by now. 

[Stephen]

thank you, Proulxfan, Keren, and all, for this beautiful thread: I came here to add something but you have said it all so insightfully and beautifully: I've just printed out this page for posterity. When I'm a dottering old man, with dull wits and a fading memory, I'll have all this here in print to remind me of how we were once upon a time so impassioned over this great film, and how Ennis and Jack brought us all together........Stephen.

[Mars]

As I had mentioned in a previous post, observe the expression of Gyllenhaal's face before he goes up to Ennis/Ledger with the lasso.  To me, this is probably the most beautiful close-up of Jake's face in the entire movie.  It is beautiful because, in a single look, Gyllenhaal manages to convey all the love and understanding Jack has at that moment for the tortured Ennis.

Oh you are so right tpe.  That look is beautiful.  I'm tellin' ya true, these two kids are better actors than some of the oldtime greats.  They are so aware of what the scene requires.  I love them so much.

It's my avatar! You're both right!....

[tpe]

As I had mentioned in a previous post, observe the expression of Gyllenhaal's face before he goes up to Ennis/Ledger with the lasso.  To me, this is probably the most beautiful close-up of Jake's face in the entire movie.  It is beautiful because, in a single look, Gyllenhaal manages to convey all the love and understanding Jack has at that moment for the tortured Ennis.

Oh you are so right tpe.  That look is beautiful.  I'm tellin' ya true, these two kids are better actors than some of the oldtime greats.  They are so aware of what the scene requires.  I love them so much.

It's my avatar! You're both right!....

Yes, I know. 

[Mars]

Tpe,it's a bit O.T. but, as Frances has told, you're our "personal hero"

[tpe]

Mars and frances, I thank you for the kind words.


I agree with the earlier posts that there is a lot in this thread that really shows the beauty of the relationship that was born on BBM.  We should note also that the blosomming of the relationship, especially in the initial stages, was all done with no words spoken.  In the 1st and (most especially) the 2nd tent scenes, there were very few words exchanged.  Even when they were coming down from the mountain, the screenplay says that they were too full of emotion to speak.

"Hell, that's the most I've spoke in a year."  In a sense, the foundation of their love had already been laid before this was said.  The exchange of words between Jack and Ennis in this scene is perhaps the first true affirmation in the film that the course of love has indeed been set.

[frances]

Tpe,it's a bit O.T. but, as Frances has told, you're our "personal hero"

Oh.....come oooooonnnnnn, you can't keep a secret!

ON TOPIC :

Body language is quite impressive in the lasso scene. There's all of Jack and Ennis in it. Jack' s adoring eyes, Ennis' being round-shouldered as to protect himself (from himself, from what he feels).



I absolutely agree with the interpretation of that scene Keren_b gave us.

[Mars]

Tpe,it's a bit O.T. but, as Frances has told, you're our "personal hero"

Oh.....come oooooonnnnnn, you can't keep a secret!

ON TOPIC :

Body language is quite impressive in the lasso scene. There's all of Jack and Ennis in it. Jack' s adoring eyes, Ennis' being round-shouldered as to protect himself (from himself, from what he feels).



I absolutely agree with the interpretation of that scene Keren_b gave us.

It was not a secret, it was already public!
Anyway this thread has clearly shown  the crossing border of the conscious feelings between the two men.
As previously told by Tpe and other members, it's , in my opinion too, the first real step of their falling in love.
It's, in fact,  the beginning of trust and confidence.

[tpe]

Mars, yes, it is something like crossing a border, isn't it?  There are scenes in the movie that are certainly like this in spirit.

The scene when they open up verbally to each other.  The lasso scene right before they come down.  These are definitely scenes when they have symbolically crossed an internal and invisible boundary.  In some sense, the reunion kiss, although powerful and very dramatic, is really just a physical culmination of everything they have stored up inside of themselves in the few months they were on BBM.

They must have stored a lot on that mountain.  It lasted a lifetime...

[BBBOY]

Anyway, wonderful thread, and wonderfully expressed, karen_b. You need have no worrys about your English; it's quite fine.
And BBBOY, you are doing much better than I am if you can avoid getting misty when discussing this. Just when I think I am finally getting over my PBS, y'all have to go and post a thread like this and start it all over again! Oh well, I should be getting used to it by now. 

I said I wasn't gonna cry................didn't say I didn't after that post  My PBS hits me any time of the day or night. I never know when it's gonna happen. Sorry, off topic.

[BBBOY]

Mars and frances, I thank you for the kind words.


I agree with the earlier posts that there is a lot in this thread that really shows the beauty of the relationship that was born on BBM.  We should note also that the blosomming of the relationship, especially in the initial stages, was all done with no words spoken.  In the 1st and (most especially) the 2nd tent scenes, there were very few words exchanged.  Even when they were coming down from the mountain, the screenplay says that they were too full of emotion to speak.

"Hell, that's the most I've spoke in a year."  In a sense, the foundation of their love had already been laid before this was said.  The exchange of words between Jack and Ennis in this scene is perhaps the first true affirmation in the film that the course of love has indeed been set.

Well said tpe. When Ennis gives his little speech about his family he is starting to let down his guard. This transitions into an innocent flirting, "My dad now, he was a fine roper. Didn't rodeo much, though. Thought rodeo cowboys was all f**k-ups." Jack goes into his rodeo imitation and the shift has been made.

[aimi15]

Mars, yes, it is something like crossing a border, isn't it?  There are scenes in the movie that are certainly like this in spirit.

The scene when they open up verbally to each other.  The lasso scene right before they come down.  These are definitely scenes when they have symbolically crossed an internal and invisible boundary.  In some sense, the reunion kiss, although powerful and very dramatic, is really just a physical culmination of everything they have stored up inside of themselves in the few months they were on BBM.

They must have stored a lot on that mountain.  It lasted a lifetime...

tpe, what a beautiful post. It has really struck a chord with me. Do you think the four year separation deepened the connection they had? Would their relationship have been as intense and as all consuming if they had come down from the mountain and remained together? I would be interested on what you think about this as i cannot decide, BBM is making me question a lot of the ideas i had about love - even very fundamental ones. Its a wonderful, fascinating journey.

[tpe]

BBBOY and  aimi15, thanks also for the comments.

BBBOY, if was most definitely light flirting.  Also, when he started talking about his dad being a fine roper, he did it on his own -- without prodding from Jack.  That was really the first time I sensed that something special just happened here, in this scene.

aimi15, it is interesting that sort of read my thoughts about the 4 years.  It was like a time of testing for both of them.  To see whether they could forget and move on.  And they did try.  Ennis and Jack got married.  Jack even moved out of his home state.  I think that the 4 years tempered them.  They saw reality as it is and tried to flow with it.  But I think it was inevitable that they would have met again -- 4 years, 5 years, it does not matter.  Jack may have instigated it, but Ennis seconded it.  Both wanted it.  They knew that after all those years, BBM was not dead and forgotten.

When they met.  It was like a gigantic compressed spring. I think that reunion scene was when they first realized who they really were.  When they met, they discovered that they were whole.

[aimi15]

BBBOY and  aimi15, thanks also for the comments.

BBBOY, if was most definitely light flirting.  Also, when he started talking about his dad being a fine roper, he did it on his own -- without prodding from Jack.  That was really the first time I sensed that something special just happened here, in this scene.

aimi15, it is interesting that sort of read my thoughts about the 4 years.  It was like a time of testing for both of them.  To see whether they could forget and move on.  And they did try.  Ennis and Jack got married.  Jack even moved out of his home state.  I think that the 4 years tempered them.  They saw reality as it is and tried to flow with it.  But I think it was inevitable that they would have met again -- 4 years, 5 years, it does not matter.  Jack may have instigated it, but Ennis seconded it.  Both wanted it.  They knew that after all those years, BBM was not dead and forgotten.

When they met.  It was like a gigantic compressed spring. I think that reunion scene was when they first realized who they really were.  When they met, they discovered that they were whole.

Yes, a kiss can be just a kiss - meeting lips and tasting. This was a kiss that exchanged hearts, even souls. So powerful...what did you post? The kiss at the worlds end? SO true.

[tpe]

aimi15, it is indeed an exchange of souls.  That was what truly met during that kiss.

[Mars]

Last lines of your post, Tpe, hit fully the mark, in my opinion.
Together-yin & yang- they are a force of nature by their love,while divided  they are only two frail monads.
Symbolic "double" theory of hellenic memory.
Once again I must admit this film is a real masterpiece.

[tpe]

Mars, even before the kiss-- when they embraced mightily, you can see in the mind's eye that they were one and the same, no?

Yin-yang and the interior coupling.  Very apt.

Finally, no need for words, after Ennis's line: "Jack F*CKING Twist...."  All words fail at what followed. 

[keren_b]

When they met.  It was like a gigantic compressed spring. I think that reunion scene was when they first realized who they really were.  When they met, they discovered that they were whole.

I think you're right tpe! and that's what made the kiss so powerful. the moment when their lips met, Annie Proulx described it "as easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers"... for me, it was like two halfs becoming a whole. they were drawn to each other like magnets. I don't think they stopped for a drink once they left the house, they probably rushed to that motel as fast as they could!!! 

back to the original topic - another thing I love about the "most I've spoke in a year" scene is the expression on Jack's face while Ennis talks. he was enjoying so much listening to Ennis, he just wanted him to keep talking. I think that's one of Jake's finest acting moments. he managed to convey so much emotion and tenderness in his expression, in his gentle little smile, in his soft voice when he answers to Ennis's "what?" ------ When I look at his face while he listens to Ennis talking, I can feel he's falling in love.

[aimi15]

[tpe]

Can we not see by their faces in these pictures: are they not falling in love?

Who is so hard of heart as to deny it?

[aimi15]

Could not resist...I love Ennis' little smile, but the look on Jack's face is something else. The most beautiful face and the most beautiful expression...makes your heart ache doesn't it?