Topic: Jack's dad

[lacy8753]

 Did Jack's dad know he was gay? He's obviously furious with Jack but he's been furious with him since he was a little boy (bathroom scene). He sounds like he's mad because Jack has repeatedly promised to help him with the ranch and never did. This makes a tentative case for Jack having a violent death and his dad finding out that way...or maybe not?

[rikcub]

Did Jack's dad know he was gay? He's obviously furious with Jack but he's been furious with him since he was a little boy (bathroom scene). He sounds like he's mad because Jack has repeatedly promised to help him with the ranch and never did. This makes a tentative case for Jack having a violent death and his dad finding out that way...or maybe not?

I have read the short story and seen the movie 4 times.  I think both Jacks parents knew.  Jacks mom was very kind to Ennis...Jacks dad just seemed bitter.  He just seemed to me like a man who knew his son was "different"...and of course unacceptable in that time and place.  Jack mentions that he could not please his dad "no way".  Yeah....he knew.

[Italian_Dude]

I too assumed his parents knew, and his dad was just bitter and made sure that Jack's ashes wouldnt go with Ennis to Brokeback Mountain.. where their "sins" were committed..and he made sure he was burried with family,  thats how I interpreted it.

[rane99]

I have read the short story and seen the movie 4 times.  I think both Jacks parents knew.  Jacks mom was very kind to Ennis...Jacks dad just seemed bitter. He just seemed to me like a man who knew his son was "different"...and of course unacceptable in that time and place.  Jack mentions that he could not please his dad "no way".  Yeah....he knew.

I agree Jack's was bitter but not because he possibly knew of Jack's preferences. Witness from the short story:
He had been about three or four, he said, always late getting to the toilet, struggling with buttons, the seat, the height of the thing and often as not left the surroundings sprinkled down. The old man blew up about it and this one time worked into a crazy rage. "Christ, he licked the stuffin out a me, knocked me down on the bathroom floor, whipped me with his belt. I thought he was killin me. [/color]
This man had issues... perhaps from a failed rodeo career? Recall Jack told Ennis his father never came to see him ride or gave him any advice on bull riding. 

[sharve]

Of course he knew.

The old man sat silent, his hands folded on the plastic tablecloth, staring at Ennis with an angry, knowing expression. Ennis recognized in him a not uncommon type with the hard need to be the stud duck in the pond.

Jack had, over the years, dropped all sorts of hints, and when Ennis showed up, he could finally put a face on 'Ennis del Mar...'

[merry]

I too assumed his parents knew, and his dad was just bitter and made sure that Jack's ashes wouldnt go with Ennis to Brokeback Mountain.. where their "sins" were committed..and he made sure he was burried with family,  thats how I interpreted it.

For sure he knew about his son's sexuality. It seems obvious, indeed. You're right. The passage which allows me to say that is when Jack's father evokes his son's masculine conquests. With respect to that, when Jack tells Ennis that he cheats his wife with a friend's wife, he lies, doesn't he?? Obviously, he may have had sex with the friend he evokes, not with this friend's wife. What do u think?

Merry

[Cowboy Cody]

Definately wasn't LaShawn, it was Randall. Either someone found out about that, or Jack perhaps may have tried to 'pick-up' someone who wasn't so receptive, hence the beating from the 3.

Jack's father was a mean s.o.b. He knew Jack was gay, he might be an old country sod, but he knows what it means when a man divorces his wife and was going to set up shop up at Lightining Flat.

[CherryCake]

Definately wasn't LaShawn, it was Randall. Either someone found out about that, or Jack perhaps may have tried to 'pick-up' someone who wasn't so receptive, hence the beating from the 3.

Jack's father was a mean s.o.b. He knew Jack was gay, he might be an old country sod, but he knows what it means when a man divorces his wife and was going to set up shop up at Lightining Flat.

Yet, something doesn't quite click...if Jack's dad knew Jack was gay, why would Jack even entertain and and verbalizethe notion of bringing not one, but two, guys over to build a house and live on the ranch with.  Seems to me that if Jack's dad was so homophobic he would have run Jack and certainly not even entertain the idea of Jack having a 'friend'  live on the ranch.
So, I think the dad was more upset at the family's harsh economic situation.  Probably brought on by himself by his bitterness, perhaps due to his own bull- riding days. (failures?)  It seemed that to me, from the story, that the father was more upset that he didn't get any help on the ranch.  I recall Jack wanted to ride bulls... Jack mentioned his father would not share his secrets or come see him ride.  Sounds like the father didn't want Jack to be a successful bul-lrider and leave the ranch. He needed the help!
Ideas??

[Cowboy Cody]

Cherry Cake - I'd agree that Jack's dad wanted the help and didn't want him to be a bull rider, but he also said that all of Jack's ideas were dreams, like he knew it, like all others would never come to pass, and that Jack was in a sense - no good for the family ranch - He was as his dad said, "too special" on brokeback.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Cherry Cake - I'd agree that Jack's dad wanted the help and didn't want him to be a bull rider, but he also said that all of Jack's ideas were dreams, like he knew it, like all others would never come to pass, and that Jack was in a sense - no good for the family ranch - He was as his dad said, "too special" on brokeback.

Something else to think about along the line of Jack being "too special"...even though Jack's dad may have known what was going on with Jack, I think he harbored additional resentment.  When he said "he thought he was too G.D. special to be buried in the family plot!" I felt he harbored some jealously because Jack lived a more affluent life compared to him.  Even if Jack had offered financial assistance over the years, I doubt Mr. Twist would have accepted the help.  My God, look at the condition of the ranch!

Just something to think about.

[CherryCake]

Well, without knowing what other dreams that Jack's dad was referring to it's hard to be sure if they were true failures or just something Jack's dad didn't like... but we can speculate...
We know this: Jack was outgoing. He was handsome. He was gregarious. He was gay. So, his other dreams probably didn't involve staying on the ranch....unless they involved another guy there for him... hmmm.
And Jack's dad apparently never ruled out the idea of Jack having a male friend on the ranch. If he had Jack would not have brought it up the second time with a new guy I think.
As for 'being special' yes, I think there was some resentment for Jack's wealth. Being from Texas I know about family plots and being asked to be buried alone on a mountain rather than the ancestors could be taken as an insult. (lol this is something I found kind of funny by the way... here this dirt poor family even HAS a family burial area! Unless you know that in Bloomington in Victoria County for example, all natives born there are guaranteed a free plot.) By deciding where Jack would be buried would have given this bitter man his power--which of course is sad. But seems in character for him.

[Cowboy Cody]

Cherrycake - you are right. It's one decision the old man has power over Jack on. If I was Ennis, I'd sneak up there and dig up that damn urn, put it in my cowboy hat, replace it with fireplace ashes, then high tail it up to Brokeback.

[CherryCake]

If I was Ennis, I'd sneak up there and dig up that damn urn, put it in my cowboy hat, replace it with fireplace ashes, then high tail it up to Brokeback.

lol yes. As would I.

[Apollonos]

If I was Ennis, I'd sneak up there and dig up that damn urn, put it in my cowboy hat, replace it with fireplace ashes, then high tail it up to Brokeback.

That sounds like a scene from Six Feet Under. I have to agree. Jack's ashes should go where he wanted them.

[proulxfan]

Re: Jack bringing Ennis/Randall up to Ligtning Flat: I too was struck by the line in the story where Jack's father begins his talk with Ennis by saying:" I can't get any help up here." I think in the context of ranch culture in the West, being able to hang onto your land is the highest priority, and I think it is at least a distinct possibility that his father would have been able to force himself to look the other way if Jack did bring one of those guys up there to live with him if they kept fairly dicscreet about it. I have seen similar dynamics at work in other families where being gay wasn't exactly tolerated, but subject to an uneasy and forever unspoken truce.

[Cowboy Cody]

Proulxfan - I have that already, the unspoken truce between my father and I. I don't mention it, and he ignores it. My mom, thats another story. Dad asked me not to tell her, so I respect his wishes, but somewhere deep down she has to know, but I don't think she wants to hear it. It makes that part of my life tough.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Proulxfan - I have that already, the unspoken truce between my father and I. I don't mention it, and he ignores it. My mom, thats another story. Dad asked me not to tell her, so I respect his wishes, but somewhere deep down she has to know, but I don't think she wants to hear it. It makes that part of my life tough.

My situation is kind of similar.  My Mom knows. I told her back in '87. Her response was "I was waiting for you to tell me."  It explains why she never asked who I was dating or if there would be any grandchildren from my camp. She doesn't approve of same-sex relationships but she doesn't sit in judgement of me either.  We rarely discuss the subject which is fine with me.  My Dad lives in another town and I suspect he knows.  I never came right out and told him.  All I know is that he stopped asking about future grandchildren in '88.  He doesn't ask, and I don't tell. 

[Cowboy Cody]

Don't ask don't tell, more than military people living with that one. But for me, I know that will all change this year, probably either late summer or early fall. My Bubba graduated from Grad School and got a new job at a University only 20 miles from me, so we are moving in together, we've both waited so long for this to happen, and we'll if the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can lick my boot heels. I'm not sacrificing my happiness any longer to keep the parents comfortable.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Don't ask don't tell, more than military people living with that one. But for me, I know that will all change this year, probably either late summer or early fall. My Bubba graduated from Grad School and got a new job at a University only 20 miles from me, so we are moving in together, we've both waited so long for this to happen, and we'll if the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can lick my boot heels. I'm not sacrificing my happiness any longer to keep the parents comfortable.

Good for you Cody!!!!    I'll probably do the same thing in the event I ever have that to look forward to.

[proulxfan]

Cody! Hurray for you!!
 
And to both you and Jarwill,
What are the chances of asking  your parents to see this movie and allowing it to work its peculiar magic?? Hearts and minds are being changed. I know how very touchy this may be, but if having a more honest and open relationship with your folks is important to you, I think it's worth a shot. Sorry if I am "trespassing in the shoot-em zone". :-\
But it's for their sake as well as yours. I keep thinking of Anne Bancroft's line in "Torch Song Trilogy: "You shut me out of your life,and then blamed me for not being there."  Sorry, crying again.

[*Froggy*]

Don't ask don't tell, more than military people living with that one. But for me, I know that will all change this year, probably either late summer or early fall. My Bubba graduated from Grad School and got a new job at a University only 20 miles from me, so we are moving in together, we've both waited so long for this to happen, and we'll if the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can lick my boot heels. I'm not sacrificing my happiness any longer to keep the parents comfortable.

Go for it! Yeah , I'm really happy for you, it's great.
 
Froggy

[Cowboy Cody]

I'm planning on telling them to go see it after I see a 3rd time. I think they both need to be educated on the subject. Don't get me wrong, my parents are both loving, great folks, but they are midwest mentalities. Plus that neither of them have really traveled to experience different cultures and ideas.

Proulxfan & Froggy - Thanks for the encouragement, it means alot. I always figured people and places come to me for a reason and you guys are now a part of that.

[*Froggy*]

You're welcome, I am sincerely happy for you!

Big moua from me!

[Cowboy Cody]

Aww Shucks!

[*Froggy*]

Aww Shucks!

No need, I mean it

[Cowboy Cody]

You're a Sweetie!

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Cody! Hurray for you!!
 
And to both you and Jarwill,
What are the chances of asking  your parents to see this movie and allowing it to work its peculiar magic?? Hearts and minds are being changed. I know how very touchy this may be, but if having a more honest and open relationship with your folks is important to you, I think it's worth a shot. Sorry if I am "trespassing in the shoot-em zone". :-
But it's for their sake as well as yours. I keep thinking of Anne Bancroft's line in "Torch Song Trilogy: "You shut me out of your life,and then blamed me for not being there."  Sorry, crying again.

I'd love for both parents to see the movie. Unfortunately, I know them both well enough to know they would walk out early into the film.  The language or the first tent scene would do it.  I'd like to believe there's a chance I could be wrong but...I'm probably not.  For now I'll just live under the illusion that we have an open relationship. 

[rane99]

I'm planning on telling them to go see it after I see a 3rd time. I think they both need to be educated on the subject. Don't get me wrong, my parents are both loving, great folks, but they are midwest mentalities. Plus that neither of them have really traveled to experience different cultures and ideas.

Go for it! great for you!

[Cowboy Cody]

Rane - Thanks buddy.  It's either sooner or later. I don't know how big of place we will get, but I don't want anything huge. I want comfortable, and I want to travel. Bubba and I are only going to have ONE bedroom and a guestroom or maybe two. After us cowpokes get settled down, maybe I'll have a place where people who want to come see Amish Country can stay. I'm 20 minutes from the largest Amish settled area in the US.

[CherryCake]

aw... how sweet. I just hope you always have on hand a cherry cake for when you Brokkie freinds stop by... tee hee
Congrats, hun