Author Topic: Ennis and Jack talk  (Read 18737 times)

Offline christie wood

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Ennis and Jack talk
« on: Feb 20, 2006, 05:07 PM »
Awwww, thanks bbmlover...... :-[ :-[

Whenever I'm watching Ennis in any scenes without Jack, I just get this sense of him being lost.....only way I can describe it. 

Remember the scene when he's in the bar with Cassie and Alma Jnr?  Cassie gets him up to dance......but it's like Ennis isn't really there at all........just going through the motions of convincing himself he's having a good time.  Poor, sad, lost Ennis.  Needs his angel Jack to come and find him, and make everything alright.   :'( :'( :'(
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Offline bbmlover

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #1 on: Feb 20, 2006, 05:45 PM »
Awwww, thanks bbmlover...... :-[ :-[

Whenever I'm watching Ennis in any scenes without Jack, I just get this sense of him being lost.....only way I can describe it. 

Remember the scene when he's in the bar with Cassie and Alma Jnr?  Cassie gets him up to dance......but it's like Ennis isn't really there at all........just going through the motions of convincing himself he's having a good time.  Poor, sad, lost Ennis.  Needs his angel Jack to come and find him, and make everything alright.   :'( :'( :'(

SO TRUE......... YOU BET....

(i have to double confess here..... guess wha(t)?.... when Ennis was divorcing Alma..... i was bit happy.......now i thought he has all his time for Jack!!!.... i know some might be angry @ me on this........ but i just want these 2 guys to be together...FOREVER)




Offline christie wood

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #2 on: Feb 21, 2006, 05:09 AM »
Oh no I agree so don't think you are on your own in that thought.  When they got divorced I was hoping for some realisation from Ennis that he knew Jack was the one he wanted to be with forever.....sadly, it wasn't to be.   :'( 
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Offline alicat

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #3 on: Feb 21, 2006, 01:39 PM »
Oh no I agree so don't think you are on your own in that thought.  When they got divorced I was hoping for some realisation from Ennis that he knew Jack was the one he wanted to be with forever.....sadly, it wasn't to be.   :'( 

Hi Christie,

I think Ennis always knew (in his heart) that Jack was the one he wanted to be with forever (the reunion scene, when he waits by the window for Jack is evidence of that), but his heart/soul just would not allow him to even contemplate it.  I think, had he been living in a more liberal place, he would've allowed himself to be with Jack.  It is so sad that he could not  :(  But I too was hoping that Ennis and Jack would live together when he and Alma got divorved. 
Did your folks stop at Ennis?

Offline christie wood

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #4 on: Feb 21, 2006, 04:47 PM »
Hi Alicat

That's what I meant, about Ennis realising it was Jack he wanted to be with....he knew this implicitly in his heart, but the reality of it was too much for him to handle.  He was constantly paranoid about someone, anyone finding out (the truck in the distance in the post-divorce scene for example), and Riverton was not the place to be setting up home with another cowboy.
"Look at my boots, old and dingy" - Heath Ledger

Offline donnaread

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #5 on: Mar 21, 2006, 08:46 PM »
Awwww, thanks bbmlover...... :-[ :-[

Whenever I'm watching Ennis in any scenes without Jack, I just get this sense of him being lost.....only way I can describe it. 

Remember the scene when he's in the bar with Cassie and Alma Jnr?  Cassie gets him up to dance......but it's like Ennis isn't really there at all........just going through the motions of convincing himself he's having a good time.  Poor, sad, lost Ennis.  Needs his angel Jack to come and find him, and make everything alright.   :'( :'( :'(

SO TRUE......... YOU BET....

(i have to double confess here..... guess wha(t)?.... when Ennis was divorcing Alma..... i was bit happy.......now i thought he has all his time for Jack!!!.... i know some might be angry @ me on this........ but i just want these 2 guys to be together...FOREVER)




YES!!!  When Ennis is with Jack he seems to come alive.  When he's away from Jack, he seems to be a shell of a man.  I don't know if its his shame and guilt that makes him almost "paralyzed" when around other people.  It is obvious how much he misses Jack every time they meet again...his face just lights up. Why oh why couldn't he just "go with it.?  So tragic  :'(
This is the forest primeval.  The murmuring pines and the hemlocks, bearded with moss, and in garments green, indistinct in the twilight...but where are the hearts that beneath it leaped...

Offline n061857

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #6 on: Mar 22, 2006, 09:30 AM »
YES!!!  When Ennis is with Jack he seems to come alive.  When he's away from Jack, he seems to be a shell of a man.  I don't know if its his shame and guilt that makes him almost "paralyzed" when around other people.  It is obvious how much he misses Jack every time they meet again...his face just lights up. Why oh why couldn't he just "go with it.?  So tragic  :'(

Ennis is paralyzed by guilt and shame.  Remember he thinks everyone he sees, "knows".  For a homophobe this is disasterous.  How can he talk to anyone?

Offline flikker2005

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #7 on: Mar 22, 2006, 10:39 PM »

Ennis is paralyzed by guilt and shame.  Remember he thinks everyone he sees, "knows".  For a homophobe this is disasterous.  How can he talk to anyone?
Quote

He can talk to Jack.

Touts les événements sont enchaîné dans le meilleur des mondes possibles ... VOLTAIRE "Candide; ou L'Optimisme"

Offline n061857

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #8 on: Mar 22, 2006, 10:41 PM »
Yes, thank heaven for Jack!                                 - Nancy

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #9 on: Mar 23, 2006, 06:54 AM »

Ennis is paralyzed by guilt and shame.  Remember he thinks everyone he sees, "knows".  For a homophobe this is disasterous.  How can he talk to anyone?
Quote
He can talk to Jack.

I dont think he can, he barely talks to anyone and when he does open up to Jack they have an argument.
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If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
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Offline n061857

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #10 on: Mar 23, 2006, 06:54 PM »
I dont think he can, he barely talks to anyone and when he does open up to Jack they have an argument.

Although he never professes his love to Jack, I believe he does talk to him.  Given the repression he exhibits think of these:

1. He tells Jack about the loss of his family and his subsequent life.
 
2. He tells Jack about a very traumatic event of his childhood.

3. He admits he is a virgin.

4. He approaches Jack the next day and discusses his one shot deal/notqueer theory.

5. He approaches the tent the next evening, apologizes to Jack and through actions expresses his interest.

6. He gets visibly and verbally upset when their summer is ended abruptly.

7.  He says, "Come here" and lays that passionate reunion kiss on Jack.

8. He admits to feeling vioently ill, when they had to leave each other and admits that a year later he realized it was because he never    should have let Jack go.

9. He talks about how he feels about having sex with women versus men.

10.  He talks about his paranoia regarding his sexual preference.

11. He talls Jack about Cassie.

12.He lets Jack know in no uncertain terms that he is jealous and does not want him with other men.

Although Jack is more open to Ennis about his feelings for Ennis, I think Ennis reveals more about himself and opens the door for Jack to do the same.  Even when he takes Alma, Jr. to the bar with Cassie and him, he asks her afterward if she is o.k..  That was thoughtful and an attempt to pen communication.

I doubt that anyone agrees with me, but given the type of man Ennis is these examples reflect a surprising candor.
« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2006, 10:56 AM by n061857 »

Offline chameau

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #11 on: Mar 23, 2006, 07:07 PM »
Sorry nancy, this was off topic  ;)
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline n061857

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #12 on: Mar 23, 2006, 07:11 PM »
If you have to remove this, I understand.  Sorry.  - Nancy

Offline chameau

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #13 on: Mar 23, 2006, 07:16 PM »
If you have to remove this, I understand.  Sorry.  - Nancy

No need to remove a great post like this, it was just a kindly reminder.
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #14 on: Mar 23, 2006, 07:32 PM »
Let's create a new thread then!
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #15 on: Mar 23, 2006, 07:38 PM »
I dont think he can, he barely talks to anyone and when he does open up to Jack they have an argument.

Although he never professes his love to Jack, I believe he does talk to him.  Given the repression he exhibits think of these:

Sorry I meant when they talk about the future or their relationships...  :-\
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline n061857

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #16 on: Mar 23, 2006, 08:31 PM »

Sorry I meant when they talk about the future or their relationships...  :-\

Yes, you are right he does not talk about that.   :(

Offline dodoLea

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #17 on: Oct 01, 2006, 08:49 AM »
Sometimes we need no words to know  the feeling of our lovers...When I think about their talk , I always remember this song:

In a Manner of speaking
I just want to say
That I could never forget the way
You told me everything
By saying nothing

In a manner of speaking
I don't understand
How love in silence becomes reprimand
But the way that i feel about you
Is beyond words

Oh give me the words
Give me the words
That tell me nothing
Ohohohoh give me the words
Give me the words
That tell me everything

In a manner of speaking
Semantics won't do
In this life that we live we only make do
And the way that we feel
Might have to be sacrificed

So in a manner of speaking
I just want to say
That just like you I should find a way
To tell you everything
By saying nothing.

Oh give me the words
Give me the words
That tell me nothing
Ohohohoh give me the words
Give me the words
That tell me everything

Oh give me the words
Give me the words
That tell me nothing
Ohohohoh give me the words
Give me the words
That tell me everything

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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #18 on: Oct 02, 2006, 03:18 AM »
He mostly talked when Jack was around.  He knew Jack would'nt judge him.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

ana

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #19 on: Oct 02, 2006, 06:28 AM »
I think ,Ennis and Jack did talk allot to each other, but Ang Lee ,with his brilliant directing left it to our imagination, you don't need to be fed up the lines like a baby, all the gestures and the gentle and loving  way they approach each other when they meet ,lead me to believe that they do talk ,before and after...

Offline hpv

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #20 on: Oct 02, 2006, 07:04 AM »
I think ,Ennis and Jack did talk allot to each other, but Ang Lee ,with his brilliant directing left it to our imagination, you don't need to be fed up the lines like a baby, all the gestures and the gentle and loving  way they approach each other when they meet ,lead me to believe that they do talk ,before and after...
You're so right!!   O0
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #21 on: Oct 02, 2006, 07:26 AM »


I think that even when they were not speaking, they understood each other.  And I do think they taled to each other on different levels, and perhaps even in those indirect  instances, they still managed to understand what was afoot.

The big exception is of course the post-divorce meeting between them.  Jack completely misread Ennis.  His heart could not be dissuaded.

Offline aintfoolin

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #22 on: Oct 02, 2006, 03:14 PM »
Another example of this is in the scene where they have separated the sheep( supposedly) and they are riding side  by side and Jack is playing his completed version of,,,,, well ..... whatever that was on his little  harmonica. Ennis says " gonna run them sheep off again if you don't quiet down". Then gives  Jack that shy quiet but cute,loving smile of his. Jack looks  over at him for a  second and continues to play. Their eyes met for in instant and you just know at this point that they are comfortable communicating their love for each other proudly ........Only when they're alone of course. It's just SO cute.  This is my 2 cents.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline dodoLea

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #23 on: Oct 03, 2006, 02:31 AM »
Their talk in the mothel scene...they were so close with each other...few words in the picture scene, more in the short story...I prefer the first one, in this case...it' makes their being together so intense, they are so happy, so in love.
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greenfrog

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #24 on: Oct 03, 2006, 02:51 AM »
He mostly talked when Jack was around.  He knew Jack would'nt judge him.

Very true.

Ennis was just Ennis when he was with Jack.  :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #25 on: Oct 03, 2006, 07:28 AM »
Another example of this is in the scene where they have separated the sheep( supposedly) and they are riding side  by side and Jack is playing his completed version of,,,,, well ..... whatever that was on his little  harmonica. Ennis says " gonna run them sheep off again if you don't quiet down". Then gives  Jack that shy quiet but cute,loving smile of his. Jack looks  over at him for a  second and continues to play. Their eyes met for in instant and you just know at this point that they are comfortable communicating their love for each other proudly ........Only when they're alone of course. It's just SO cute.  This is my 2 cents.

Yes, this is a beautiful example.


Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis and Jack talk
« Reply #26 on: Oct 03, 2006, 07:36 AM »
Their talk in the mothel scene...they were so close with each other...few words in the picture scene, more in the short story...I prefer the first one, in this case...it' makes their being together so intense, they are so happy, so in love.

They spoke sotto voce.  There was no need for dramatics -- everything was so relaxed.  Most wonderful of all were the things that were not said but were expressed -- the embrace, the caressing of the arm, and the nuzzling of the hair.