Author Topic: Question about a scene - When Ennis met Jack after his Divorce (spoiler) (Read 35297 times)

BBBOY · « **Reply #30 on:** Feb 21, 2006, 05:38 PM »

Sometimes I just want to shake Ennis so hard. He is so afraid. Here he uses the girls as an excuse, and it is legitimate, but it's that damn truck and his fear of people knowing. This scene ties directly to the one by the river later where he asks Jack, "You ever get the feelin', I don't know, when you're in town, and someone looks at you, suspicious....like he KNOWS. And then you get out on the pavement, and everyon, lookin' at you. maybe they all know too?" Here it is at last. He still can't say it, admit that he is queer or at least in a queer relationship but he is paranoid and crippled with fear of what others might think, and in his mind certainly, do.

I don't know if that is right but it's my take on it at the moment. Of course every time I see the movie I see more and more layers. Simple yet so complex. Very Japanese actually.

christie wood · « **Reply #31 on:** Feb 21, 2006, 05:45 PM »

Hi BBBoy

Great post, and I agree with you. There's no way Ennis would EVER admit to being gay, too much paranoia, homophobia, inner demons....all started from his dad and what he made him witness at 9 years old.

But what I always found intriguing (and ironic) about the exchange between Ennis and Jack - about Ennis's paranoia that everyone was looking at him and everyone knew - was that Jack was the one who had more to worry about in terms of being "discovered" due to his trips to Mexico and his affair with the neighbours' husband....and Jack didn't seem to care either. I don't think anyone on earth would ever have suspected of Ennis being gay, whereas with Jack, he was a little freer with his expressions and therefore open to suspicion.....which is why he ended up being killed :'( and Ennis ended up alone in a miserable trailer in the middle of nowhere.

BBBOY · « **Reply #32 on:** Feb 21, 2006, 07:19 PM »

Quote from: christie wood on Feb 21, 2006, 05:45 PM

Hi BBBoy

Great post, and I agree with you. There's no way Ennis would EVER admit to being gay, too much paranoia, homophobia, inner demons....all started from his dad and what he made him witness at 9 years old.

But what I always found intriguing (and ironic) about the exchange between Ennis and Jack - about Ennis's paranoia that everyone was looking at him and everyone knew - was that Jack was the one who had more to worry about in terms of being "discovered" due to his trips to Mexico and his affair with the neighbours' husband....and Jack didn't seem to care either. I don't think anyone on earth would ever have suspected of Ennis being gay, whereas with Jack, he was a little freer with his expressions and therefore open to suspicion.....which is why he ended up being killed :'( and Ennis ended up alone in a miserable trailer in the middle of nowhere.

Well, Jack was the one to always take risks. He wanted to live life and did. Ennis had been too stunted in the way he was raised. Can you imagine, he looses his parents and then is raised by a brother and sister as damaged and ignorant as he. The end of the movie, where he reaches out to his daughter gives me hope that someday, maybe someday he may find some peace. No one is ever to old to learn and change. At least that's the way I approach life.

n061857 · « **Reply #33 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 10:01 AM »

Quote from: rod1960 on Feb 11, 2006, 06:39 PM

They did have a phone, in the book Ennis calls Alma from the motel room.

Yes, in the story they have a phone. In the movie they do not.

n061857 · « **Reply #34 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 10:27 AM »

Quote from: christie wood on Feb 21, 2006, 04:14 PM

Oh Aimi, don't get me started! Heartbreaking stuff indeed....but what scene isn't in this film? :'(
The filmed scene is amazing, but written down, you really get the unspoken awkwardness from Ennis when he realises that Jack thinks his divorce means they'll be together, and then the disappointment from Jack on realising that this isn't the case at all. The description of it just takes your breath away, really it doe

I'll have to get the screenplay, if simply for this reason. I think Heath does a magnificent job of letting us see his pain each time he has to disappoint Jack. Think of him when he has to tell Jack that he can't make August, will have to wait until November - chewing his nails, waiting until the last possible second to tell him, lowering his head. In the scene following the divorce he is looking Jack straight in the eye, as if wanting to convey his love and sorrow through them.

Although my heart bleeds for Jack here, I don't really blame Ennis. (I know this opinion is not popular) As has been already said, Ennis simply told Jack he was divorced, he did not invite him to come. It really is not his fault that Jack took it upon himself to drive all that distance with no warning, and given past experiences he should have surmised that Ennis iwould not be available on a moment's notice. Any of you who are parents out there I believe would concur with me that your kids come before anyone. I personally don't believe there is a love as great as one for your child. He was being a responsible parent. He wanted to provide for his kids that which he did not have as a child.

I think by introducing Jack to the girls, he was legitimizing their friendship. Look, I have nothing to hide. Besides, it was just the right thing to do.

I read someplace else that perhaps Jack should have stayed in town and proposed that they get together another day or time. That would have been nice, but I don't think Jack could have taken another rejection at this point.

I know I sound very callous about Jack here. I am not. Thinking of his exuberance on the ride there, singing King of the Road, and of his completely deflated demeanor upon leaving makes me very sad. I just don't think Ennis had much choice. I guess Ennis could have proposed a later meeting also, but I think he was so caught off guard and feeling soooooo homophobic at that point, that he just wanted to get Jack out of there. Jack had invaded his assumed heterosexual world.

n061857 · « **Reply #35 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 10:40 AM »

I'm sorry I didn't read all the posts here, so this may have been answered, but I have a question. I believe in the movie that Jack says, "I got your message... about the divorce." I'm wondering if it says in the screenplay how this message was delivered, by phone, postcard?

??

Patriot1 · « **Reply #36 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 01:38 PM »

Quote from: n061857 on Mar 24, 2006, 10:40 AM

I'm sorry I didn't read all the posts here, so this may have been answered, but I have a question. I believe in the movie that Jack says, "I got your message... about the divorce." I'm wondering if it says in the screenplay how this message was delivered, by phone, postcard???

Apparently Ennis sent him a post card. When he sent it is anyone's guess. The divorce was at least two months prior to Jack arriving.

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #37 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 02:13 PM »

Jack first received a "message" about the divorce..I have read that it was a phone call. Then after meeting the girls he said he received a card about the divorce. Little continuity thing there between different takes I guess.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #38 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 02:25 PM »

Quote from: bnjmn3 on Mar 24, 2006, 02:13 PM

Jack first received a "message" about the divorce..I have read that it was a phone call. Then after meeting the girls he said he received a card about the divorce. Little continuity thing there between different takes I guess.

The story and the screenplay/movie are different. Story says call screenplay/movie say card.

n061857 · « **Reply #39 on:** Mar 24, 2006, 02:29 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that. I wonder if it was a call, I quess he spoke to Lureen or Bobby?

bubbaluna · « **Reply #40 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 03:24 AM »

Quote from: n061857 on Mar 24, 2006, 10:27 AM

Quote from: christie wood on Feb 21, 2006, 04:14 PM
Oh Aimi, don't get me started! Heartbreaking stuff indeed....but what scene isn't in this film? :'(
The filmed scene is amazing, but written down, you really get the unspoken awkwardness from Ennis when he realises that Jack thinks his divorce means they'll be together, and then the disappointment from Jack on realising that this isn't the case at all. The description of it just takes your breath away, really it doe

I'll have to get the screenplay, if simply for this reason. I think Heath does a magnificent job of letting us see his pain each time he has to disappoint Jack. Think of him when he has to tell Jack that he can't make August, will have to wait until November - chewing his nails, waiting until the last possible second to tell him, lowering his head. In the scene following the divorce he is looking Jack straight in the eye, as if wanting to convey his love and sorrow through them.

Although my heart bleeds for Jack here, I don't really blame Ennis. (I know this opinion is not popular) As has been already said, Ennis simply told Jack he was divorced, he did not invite him to come. It really is not his fault that Jack took it upon himself to drive all that distance with no warning, and given past experiences he should have surmised that Ennis iwould not be available on a moment's notice. Any of you who are parents out there I believe would concur with me that your kids come before anyone. I personally don't believe there is a love as great as one for your child. He was being a responsible parent. He wanted to provide for his kids that which he did not have as a child.

I think by introducing Jack to the girls, he was legitimizing their friendship. Look, I have nothing to hide. Besides, it was just the right thing to do.

I read someplace else that perhaps Jack should have stayed in town and proposed that they get together another day or time. That would have been nice, but I don't think Jack could have taken another rejection at this point.

I know I sound very callous about Jack here. I am not. Thinking of his exuberance on the ride there, singing King of the Road, and of his completely deflated demeanor upon leaving makes me very sad. I just don't think Ennis had much choice. I guess Ennis could have proposed a later meeting also, but I think he was so caught off guard and feeling soooooo homophobic at that point, that he just wanted to get Jack out of there. Jack had invaded his assumed heterosexual world.

You "guess" he could have proposed a later meeting...to someone he loved who had driven for 14 hours to SEE him?

Ennis could have suggested that Jack visit his parents for a day or two and then meet up with him later...after all he was living alone, he was divorced..what would have been soo wrong with having a FRIEND visit him..even for a few days....why would "society" frown on that

Sorry but THAT was one of if not THE cruelest things that ENNIS did to Jack..I can't believe Jack ever came back ever that

n061857 · « **Reply #41 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 01:56 PM »

In Ennis's mind society would frown on that. You are very right. It was a very cruel thing. I hate to admit I am very much like Ennis and see things through his point of view. He clearly had no empathy here. I am hoping that he did not realize how truly devastating his actions here were.

Frankly, I often wondered why Jack kept coming back, because he never knew when his affections would be met by a hug or a punch.

aimi15 · « **Reply #42 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 02:15 PM »

Quote from: n061857 on Mar 25, 2006, 01:56 PM

Frankly, I often wondered why Jack kept coming back, because he never knew when his affections would be met by a hug or a punch.

He cared too much about Ennis to NOT keep going back to him IMO. The way he crumbles after seeing Ennis is evidence of this. He puts a brave face on when he is being let down then when he is alone he just dissolves. I think Jack would have gone back to a punch 99 times just to have the one time when he gets some tenderness, he had the hope for the future of them both that Ennis never did. I hate this scene, everytime i watch it its like a wound opening up... :'(

Mars · « **Reply #43 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 02:41 PM »

You've written such true and wonderful words, Aimi15!
I totally agree with you

Patriot1 · « **Reply #44 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 02:50 PM »

Quote from: aimi15 on Mar 25, 2006, 02:15 PM

Quote from: n061857 on Mar 25, 2006, 01:56 PM
Frankly, I often wondered why Jack kept coming back, because he never knew when his affections would be met by a hug or a punch.
He cared too much about Ennis to NOT keep going back to him IMO. The way he crumbles after seeing Ennis is evidence of this. He puts a brave face on when he is being let down then when he is alone he just dissolves. I think Jack would have gone back to a punch 99 times just to have the one time when he gets some tenderness, he had the hope for the future of them both that Ennis never did. I hate this scene, everytime i watch it its like a wound opening up... :'(

Your description of Jack reminds me of a woman who is abused by her husband (or boyfriend). She keeps coming back because she loves him and she is just waiting for the one in 100th time he is nice to her.

And by the way, I probably shouldn't have put that in gender specific because there are also men who are abused by their wives in the same way.

n061857 · « **Reply #45 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 03:37 PM »

That's an interesting thought. If Jack had been a woman, I suppose I would have thought of Ennis as abusive. Because he is a man, I do not. I don't know what to make of that?

matsuki33 · « **Reply #46 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 04:05 PM »

Well Ennis i think that he pushed Jack was day because:

1. he was still not enought grown in his mind to be with same sex relationship

2.he wanted to keep his manly image in front of his children and neighbors

3. he was scared of being killed with the tire iron and jack also

4. he was not expecting Jack to come (at least a part of him, because then why he told him at once instead of the next trip? a part ofhim want Jack know he was free for him!)

I'm not saying that Ennis didn't love Jack or didn't want him to be with him, he was not ready to move that step he was still that child that saw Earl death on the camp and that image was in his mind 24/7 and no matter how much he loved jack when he saw that car going around it meant to him that a wrong step in his town and there won't be a next day for them.

n061857 · « **Reply #47 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 04:21 PM »

I agree. Isn't it so said that something as nonthreatening as a car passing by could evoke that kind of fear? I think it is very real to Ennis. I have great sympathy for him.

matsuki33 · « **Reply #48 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 04:38 PM »

i don't want to be mean but in the movie and the story Ennis is the most human character he is facing all the problems that we as person face every day

please please don't take this wrong.

n061857 · « **Reply #49 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 04:50 PM »

I agree. If I had better computer skills I would start a poll on which character people identify with more. I'm very curious.
I can understand Ennis's motivations completely.

matsuki33 · « **Reply #50 on:** Mar 25, 2006, 04:53 PM »

i identify with Ennis i don't know what but to me he is the one

Author Topic: Question about a scene - When Ennis met Jack after his Divorce (spoiler) (Read 35297 times)

aimi15

matsuki33

matsuki33

matsuki33