Topic: A Character We Love to Hate

[JerBear418720]

Even though he portrays John C. Twist - quite possibly the most venomous, despicable character in BBM, you gotta admit that Scottish actor Peter McRobbie did a fantastic job.  You could almost feel the temperature in the room lower as he spoke - and that spit in the cup - yikes!  I think McRobbie provided perfect counterpoint for Roberta Maxwell as Mrs. Twist.  Her performance would not have resonated as strongly without him.  The 2 of them together is one of the best 5 minutes I have ever seen on screen - and I heard they did that scene as a 1-day shoot.

Comments?

[tpe]

I wholeheartedly agree.  By the cold glint in his eye, he says it all. 

What I admire most is the way he locks his eyes on Ennis during his speech.  Initially, he avoids eye contact.  But when he does, you are in no doubt that he means business.

[chameau]

I wholeheartedly agree.  By the cold glint in his eye, he says it all. 

What I admire most is the way he locks his eyes on Ennis during his speech.  Initially, he avoids eye contact.  But when he does, you are in no doubt that he means business.

The Stud Duck like Annie Proulx wrote.

[tpe]

The Stud Duck like Annie Proulx wrote.

Yes!  I really wish they found a way to use the term in this scene.  Proulx had the narrator say it, I recall, to describe John Twist. 

But I am glad they got to use the term in the Texas Thanksgiving scene. 

[JerBear418720]

I wholeheartedly agree.  By the cold glint in his eye, he says it all. 

What I admire most is the way he locks his eyes on Ennis during his speech.  Initially, he avoids eye contact.  But when he does, you are in no doubt that he means business.

...and with such unbelievable coldness!

[n061857]

He was magnificent.  I felt that he was locking eyes with Ennis while he tells him about the other guy, as if daring Ennis to show any emotion.  Poor Ennis.   I'm sure he is crushed, but he doesn't have the liberty to show any emotion.  I actually give Ennis alot of credit when he says, "I can't tell you how bad I feel."  That took alot for him to admit to someone whose contempt for his sexuality was so thick you could cut it with a knife.

[tpe]

He was magnificent.  I felt that he was locking eyes with Ennis while he tells him about the other guy, as if daring Ennis to show any emotion.  Poor Ennis.   I'm sure he is crushed, but he doesn't have the liberty to show any emotion.  I actually give Ennis alot of credit when he says, "I can't tell you how bad I feel."  That took alot for him to admit to someone whose contempt for his sexuality was so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Very true.

When Ennis comes back down from Jack's room.  John Twist turns his dead to look at him, and Ennis instinctively moves the two shirts he is holding to the far side -- as if to make sure John Twist does not take it away.

Very moving. 

[JerBear418720]

He was magnificent.  I felt that he was locking eyes with Ennis while he tells him about the other guy, as if daring Ennis to show any emotion.  Poor Ennis.   I'm sure he is crushed, but he doesn't have the liberty to show any emotion.  I actually give Ennis alot of credit when he says, "I can't tell you how bad I feel."  That took alot for him to admit to someone whose contempt for his sexuality was so thick you could cut it with a knife.

<OT> That is true for Ennis both with the Twists and ANYBODY!  He has to bear his grief alone.  I don't how he managed to survive it all.

[n061857]

That iswhy I pray Jr. comes across those shirts at some point, so perhaps Ennis might finally open up to someone.

We feel his total emptiness, when he crumbles to the ground at his last meeting with Jack.  And this is caused by his love for Jack. Can you imagine the depth of his emotion at his loss?

[LuvJackNasty]

I can't imagine it. It's hard enough to lose someone but to not have anyone to talk to about it? That has to be excruciating.

[n061857]

They say that depression is the internalization of repressed negative emotions.  If this is true, poor Ennis doesn't stand a chance.  I hope those dreams can see him through.

[rikcub]

He was absolutely amazing....made you loathe him with just a few minutes onscreen.  What is even more impressive when you think about it is this....Annie Proulx wrote a story about rural homophobia....not really Jack and Ennis.  In those few scenes this fine actor managed to embody that feeling of homophobia lock, stock, and barrel....a perfect counterpoint to Mrs. Twist...a gentle, loving, and accepting soul.  These two were polar opposites and yet another symbol in this amazing movie.

[Stephen]

Yes, Peter McRobbie is brilliant in his understated role as seething homophobia incarnate! He hardly moves; the venom is in his voice and eyes as he attempts to negate the sensitivity and vulnerabilities of his wife and Ennis. I found myself nearly holding my breath during this scene.

[JerBear418720]

One review I read said that the scenes at the Twist house are what pushed BBM over the top and made it a truly great movie.  The dialogue is very spare - Ledger, Maxwell and McRobbie say 3 times as much with facial expressions and delicately nuanced gestures as they do with words.

I found myself wondering what could have happened to Mr. Twist to make him so incredibly hardened, embittered and innately cruel.  But, then, all of the str8 male characters in BBM, with the exception of Monroe (who seemed kinda passionless), were negatively drawn and present only to react negatively to same-sex love.

[coguaro]

of course as you told I loved his performace but I hate his refusal to give Jack ashes to Ennis. Once again their love have been humiliated...

[JerBear418720]

of course as you told I loved his performace but I hate his refusal to give Jack ashes to Ennis. Once again their love have been humiliated...

Oh, I hated it, too, coguaro!  But I think that Annie's point in having this happen was to drive home the point that the tragedy is total and complete.  Jack is desecrated even in death - denied even having his ASHES up on Brokeback.

[Patriot1]

of course as you told I loved his performace but I hate his refusal to give Jack ashes to Ennis. Once again their love have been humiliated...

I still believe that Mr. Twist really loved Jack but didn't know how to show it.  Keeping Jack's ashes is his way to keep Jack close to him.

I am also convinced that his bitterness comes from Jack not helping on the ranch and not bringing Ennis up to help as he had promised.

[pierralex]

I am also convinced that his bitterness comes from Jack not helping on the ranch and not bringing Ennis up to help as he had promised.

I also think like you. It doesn't seem to disturb him when he says "ennis del Mar, he used to say..."
To me, the only thing he wanted was that his son come back home to help him to keep the ranch on. Whatever if it was alone, with a girl or a boy.

[Patriot1]

I am also convinced that his bitterness comes from Jack not helping on the ranch and not bringing Ennis up to help as he had promised.

I also think like you. It doesn't seem to disturb him when he says "ennis del Mar, he used to say..."
To me, the only thing he wanted was that his son come back home to help him to keep the ranch on. Whatever if it was alone, with a girl or a boy.

Yes, exactly.  I think he was so cold to Ennis because Ennis never came with Jack to help.  And, possibly he also blamed Ennis a little for Jack's death.  If Ennis had been with Jack, Jack probably wouldn't have died. 

The second part is only a possibility in my opinion. There is nothing in the movie to suggest such a thing.

[JerBear418720]

I am also convinced that his bitterness comes from Jack not helping on the ranch and not bringing Ennis up to help as he had promised.

I also think like you. It doesn't seem to disturb him when he says "ennis del Mar, he used to say..."
To me, the only thing he wanted was that his son come back home to help him to keep the ranch on. Whatever if it was alone, with a girl or a boy.

Sorry, guys, but I disagree.  He was just plain mean.  Check the story again - the part about how he urinated all over Jack as a kid.  Also, Jack made several references to his father being impossible to please and how he never taught him anything about riding or came to see him ride.  This was a vicious character - possibly with good reason (we aren't told much about him), but vicious nonetheless.  I think Mrs. Twist's cringing, self-protective posturing and expressions every time the old man opened his mouth told the whole story.

Just MHO.

[tpe]

I do think I would agree more with JerBear418720.

One telling detail is given after John Twist tells Ennis that Jack's ashes would be going into the family plot.  If I remember correctly, the screenplay says that Jack's mom, 'never a part of her husband's life' [my paraphrase, or something very close], tells Ennis to come see them again.

Someone can check the screenplay on where exactly the italicized comment can be found.

But I think you see why I bring this up.  It wasn't Jack's problem.  Jack's mom also felt the alienation.  God knows she bears it every day... 

The problem was indeed John Twist.

[Patriot1]

I am also convinced that his bitterness comes from Jack not helping on the ranch and not bringing Ennis up to help as he had promised.

I also think like you. It doesn't seem to disturb him when he says "ennis del Mar, he used to say..."
To me, the only thing he wanted was that his son come back home to help him to keep the ranch on. Whatever if it was alone, with a girl or a boy.

Sorry, guys, but I disagree.  He was just plain mean.  Check the story again - the part about how he urinated all over Jack as a kid.  Also, Jack made several references to his father being impossible to please and how he never taught him anything about riding or came to see him ride.  This was a vicious character - possibly with good reason (we aren't told much about him), but vicious nonetheless.  I think Mrs. Twist's cringing, self-protective posturing and expressions every time the old man opened his mouth told the whole story.

Just MHO.

I guess I just see a hard old man who has been disappointed in his son, first for being a mamas boy, then for being gay and then for Jack not helping around the farm.  As for urinating on him, well, for sure he didn't seem to have very good parenting skills.  But then, in 1952 my mom threw me into the ocean to teach me how to swim.  I wasn't expecting it and we weren't talking about swiming so it came as quite a shock to me as I was sinking. To tell you the truth, I think I would have preferred being pissed on.  Some parents teach kids things in wrong ways.

[CherryCake]

  Check the story again - the part about how he urinated all over Jack as a kid.  Also, Jack made several references to his father being impossible to please and how he never taught him anything about riding or came to see him ride.  This was a vicious character - possibly with good reason (we aren't told much about him), but vicious nonetheless.

Yes, but remember Jerber... all this come from Jack... and Jack is not the most trust worthy narrator.. he exaggerates or shows offs, steals (Ennis's shirt); willing to shoot a sheep, complains about a job that he knew about full well as he worked BBM the previous year; he has an affair with a married man (Ennis);  in the story it is suggested he gets with Lureen for her money... now I am not judging Jack, I am just saying, taking all that into consideration, you have to question Jack telling Ennis that story about his father... it could  have been a play for sympathy... the point is, as a narrator Jack is unreliable.
A fascinating character no doubt.

[Stephen]

Well this is a fascinating debate here! All your posts have taken me back to the story and then to the film.....I think the details and thrust of the story (and comments by Annie Proulx) most strongly suggest as I said before, that Mr. Twist, for whatever reasons we can never know, is embittered and homophobic, and is intent on spitting some venom at Ennis; the tone of his voice and the look in his eye leaves no room, it seems to me, for thinking he's the sad old father who wants Jack's ashes to be near him and who sadly regrets Jack and Ennis never came to whip the farm into shape.

[balchy28]

I just watched the scene when Ennis goes to their house (I was looking for the 'I love you', didn't hear it!) and I sat there feeling so angry with Mr Twist. I so badly wanted Jack's ashes up on Brokeback Mountain. And of course I started crying. I'm not sure whether I think he's just mean and homophobic etc etc or whether he really just loved Jack and wanted him on the ranch etc. All I know is that at this moment I really do not like him!  I think I need to read and think about it more.

[Patriot1]

Well this is a fascinating debate here! All your posts have taken me back to the story and then to the film.....I think the details and thrust of the story (and comments by Annie Proulx) most strongly suggest as I said before, that Mr. Twist, for whatever reasons we can never know, is embittered and homophobic, and is intent on spitting some venom at Ennis; the tone of his voice and the look in his eye leaves no room, it seems to me, for thinking he's the sad old father who wants Jack's ashes to be near him and who sadly regrets Jack and Ennis never came to whip the farm into shape.

I think Annie tells us very plainly what the state of mind of Mr. Twist is.  Her very first sentence sets the tone.  It is not homophobia, it is anger.  Why angry?  Read the first sentence.

The old man spoke angrily. "I can't get no help out here. Jack used a say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used a say, I'm goin a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' . . . So he says,  But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."

I don't know how it could be any plainer what Annie was trying to get across. The old man was pissed he couldn't get any help, jack kept promising to come back with someone to help but he never did it.  If the old man was that homophobic does anyone here really believe Jack would be telling his father he was bringing his boyfriend to live and work there?  Now, as I said in another post, I am sure the old man wasn't about to celebrate Jack and Ennis's 25 wedding anniversary but it sure seems to me all he really wanted was the help, no matter where it came from. 

He was angry. "I can't get no help out here."

While the movie leaves that sentence out, the sentiment was the same.  Jack promised to bring Ennis up to help, then Jack promised to bring someone else, but Jack never kept his promise.

[tpe]

Perhaps all this is a matter of opinion.  But I would say that the film itself gives numerous hints as to the unfeeling nature of John Twist.

I had already cited the screenplay directive indicating that Jack's mom was never a part of her husband's life.  The fact that Roberta Maxwell put her hand around her neck in the scene where John Twist refuses Ennis the ashes is a clear interpretation of that directive in the screenplay. 

There is no reason to doubt the childhood rememberances of Jack in the film.  Here are a few:

"Can't please my old man, no way. That's why I took to rodeo."

"Kept his secrets to himself, never taught me a thing, never once seen me ride."

It has been mentioned that all the above comes from Jack.  I do not think there is any reason to doubt these reminisces as he had nothing to gain revealing these things to Ennis -- EXCEPT to show Ennis that they both shared DIFFICULT and LONELY childhoods.   I think this is key to the understanding of the initial attraction between the two ranch hands.

[Toadily]

I do think hats off to the man for playing such a mean spirited man.  Can't be easy, I am guessing he is the total opposite.

[chameau]

I do think hats off to the man for playing such a mean spirited man.  Can't be easy, I am guessing he is the total opposite.

Same here!  You have to be comfortable with yourself to play as an actor/actress such a bad person role.  He was amazing to say the least.

[JerBear418720]

Well, I think there are many ways to look at John C. Twist, and a lot of interesting viewpoints expressed here, but, I still think he was an awful person.

He brings to mind a story I recently read about abusive relationships among seniors.  One of the women interviewed, on the day her horrible husband died at home, spent the whole evening throwing all of his personal things into the trash BEFORE she even called the coroner.  I can almost picture Mrs. Twist doing that under similar circumstances - driven by a loveless lifetime living with a icy tyrant.

Well, in any case, Peter McRobbie did an amazing job - that's indisputable.

Also, I have total court advantage here writing this at 2am while you are all asleep!  All's fair in war and forum posting!   

JB