Topic: Toboggan?

[wyomingplains]

Hello! I don't know if this has been brougt up in another thread, sorry in that case.

What do you think is the meaning of the scene when Ennis and Alma are in the toboggan run? I have thought about that a lot, but I can't figure it out. Is it just to show that they are kind of happy and having some good times together?

[tpe]

I think it sets us up to thinking that Ennis is starting to heal and forget about his experience in BBM.  We have the seeming portrait of 'normalcy'.    The viewer is disarmed into thinking that the 'worst' is over for him and now is his time to move ahead in life with a new beginning.

Little did Alma know...

[shieldmaid]

I thought it was interesting, too, that in an interview (with Jay Leno, maybe?) Michelle Williams said this was a scene in which she was sure they would have stunt people helping out--but they did all the takes themselves, even though it was a pretty steep drop (and she got hurt then as well).  So I wonder if this scene also suggests the risks that Ennis was taking--for him and Alma--by trying to live this very conventional life.  At first it seems like everything's going to be OK--they tumble in the snow and kiss--but later we realize this is one of the only truly happy moments they share on film.

[tpe]

I thought it was interesting, too, that in an interview (with Jay Leno, maybe?) Michelle Williams said this was a scene in which she was sure they would have stunt people helping out--but they did all the takes themselves, even though it was a pretty steep drop (and she got hurt then as well).  So I wonder if this scene also suggests the risks that Ennis was taking--for him and Alma--by trying to live this very conventional life.  At first it seems like everything's going to be OK--they tumble in the snow and kiss--but later we realize this is one of the only truly happy moments they share on film.

This is a really nice point of view. 

[davidgray624]

I thought it was interesting, too, that in an interview (with Jay Leno, maybe?) Michelle Williams said this was a scene in which she was sure they would have stunt people helping out--but they did all the takes themselves, even though it was a pretty steep drop (and she got hurt then as well).  So I wonder if this scene also suggests the risks that Ennis was taking--for him and Alma--by trying to live this very conventional life.  At first it seems like everything's going to be OK--they tumble in the snow and kiss--but later we realize this is one of the only truly happy moments they share on film.

Yeah... Shieldmaid said it exactly right.. Michelle said on Jay Leno that this scene represented "it was all downhill from there." But at the same time the scene WAS  so cute and so happy. We all know it was happy for the real Michelle and Heath.. they met while filming this scene. 

[Stephen]

Yes, it fascinates me the paradox that while Heath is acting his heart out to be Ennis, he's actually falling in love with Michelle, and while Jacob is acting his Jack to Heath's Ennis, Jacob is bemoaning his breakup with Kirsten Dunst......The sledding scene may symbolically suggest a downward spiral for Ennis and Alma, but the scene is also one of spontaneous joy, and possibly a reminder that Ennis does have the ability to be happy with Alma, IF it had not been for meeting Jack!

[shieldmaid]

Yes, it fascinates me the paradox that while Heath is acting his heart out to be Ennis, he's actually falling in love with Michelle, and while Jacob is acting his Jack to Heath's Ennis, Jacob is bemoaning his breakup with Kirsten Dunst......The sledding scene may symbolically suggest a downward spiral for Ennis and Alma, but the scene is also one of spontaneous joy, and possibly a reminder that Ennis does have the ability to be happy with Alma, IF it had not been for meeting Jack!

These are great points, I think--another reason why so many of us take this movie to heart.  We can even see all the ways it affected the actors' own personal lives. 

[dalemidex]

I Love the parallel between the toboggan scene and the start of the initial sheepherding scene.  In both instances we see the motionless ridge of a small hill.  In the earlier scene we see the bobbing ear and then head of the first sheep crest the hill break the stillness.  In the later scene it's the sledding newlyweds emerging over the snowy lip of the hill. 

Both mark the start of scenes which establish a base, sort of a "normalcy", of the time which is about to pass in the film.  Decent movies do this kind of thing all the time, and they have to so that it doesn't seem like one scene is just piled after the other without the feeling of where they fit into time.  But the care and crafting that went into this film are so VERY evident in little touches like this.

[Stephen]

A wonderful observation, dalemidex. You've given me something new to look for. I've always been interested in the editing proscess, and the labor it must take to get every scene and camera angle to fit in the best way for the thrust of the story and the aesthetic of the film.

[n061857]

I agree with your observation, Stephen.  I do believe that Ennis and Alma could have been happy, if he had not met Jack.

I don't know, if anyone else got this feeling.  But this scene reminds me of Ennis wrestling with Jack.  It is endearing that Ennis almost puts a snowball in Alma's face, but doesn't.  (if I remember correctly)  Thank God he restrains his more agressive urges with a female,  as he does when she confronts him about Jack.

[Stephen]

And isn't it strange to reflect that Heath, according to his own interview, began to fall in love with Michelle while doing this snow scene! All the snow scenes were apparantly done in May,near the biginning of production. two years ago, so I guess production went from May through August.

[n061857]

It's kind of cute.  Apparently,  Heath tended to a small injury of Michelle's and continue to treat her in a nurturing way?  Chivalry lives on in Heath, as well as Ennis!

[Stephen]

Yes, chivalry lives on......and to stick with the toboggan thread, I recall Ang Lee saying that inorder to catch all seasons for the film, they began production in the spring when there was still  snow at the higher elevations....thus the film was shot very much out of sequence. Yes, Michelle said she was injured while filming the toboggan scene, and dear Heath-Ennis nurtured her......

[shieldmaid]

I Love the parallel between the toboggan scene and the start of the initial sheepherding scene.  In both instances we see the motionless ridge of a small hill.  In the earlier scene we see the bobbing ear and then head of the first sheep crest the hill break the stillness.  In the later scene it's the sledding newlyweds emerging over the snowy lip of the hill. 

Both mark the start of scenes which establish a base, sort of a "normalcy", of the time which is about to pass in the film.  Decent movies do this kind of thing all the time, and they have to so that it doesn't seem like one scene is just piled after the other without the feeling of where they fit into time.  But the care and crafting that went into this film are so VERY evident in little touches like this.

Wow.  I am blown away by this observation. 

Am I reading too much into things to draw a parallel between these scenes and Alma/Ennis's apartment, too?  They live in an upstairs apartment, and we see the outside many more times than the inside--Ennis driving up, Alma storming out, the girls swinging outside, and of course Jack arriving and the reunion kiss.  They travel up and down that staircase, in and out of new pages of their lives....

[Stephen]

I like your observation, shieldmaid; my philosophy is:  if you observed it in the film, then it works, whether or not it was intentional. Yes, the upstairs-downstairs, up the mountain and down the mountain....all these scenes may suggest more than we can easily articulate....