Topic: Ennis says "I love you" in closet scene - Spoiler - New POLL

[chameau]

Oh my god - I saw his lips move, and I definitely him say something. It's breathed rather than spoken, but he says something. I'm still not 100% convinced it's "I love you", but what else would he say?

Had to be an ad-lib by Heath - wonder if he'll ever admit what he said? :'( :'( :'(

He was sobbing and trying to catch his breath, I cannot believe Heath Ledger saying this and Ang Lee letting him saying it, it would have been  a total betrayal of Annie's short story and Diana's and Larry's screenplay.

No, no, no, big no here!

I listened with headphones BTW, full blast!  Ennis never said that... The whole movie wouldn't  mean nothing otherwise, It's all about unspoken words, wrong places, wrong times...

I'll stick to Ennis tears and silence in Jack's bedroom, it's already too much for me.  :'(

Not too mention the bloody music  :'( :'( :'( but it's off topic

[Patriot1]

He was sobbing and trying to catch his breath, I cannot believe Heath Ledger saying this and Ang Lee letting him saying it, it would have been  a total betrayal of Annie's short story and Diana's and Larry's screenplay.

No, no, no, big no here!

I listened with headphones BTW, full blast!  Ennis never said that... The whole movie wouldn't  mean nothing otherwise, It's all about unspoken words, wrong places, wrong times...

I'll stick to Ennis tears and silence in Jack's bedroom, it's already too much for me.  :'(

Not too mention the bloody music  :'( :'( :'( but it's off topic

Just say you do not hear it Chameau.  Please don't try to tell us (me) who do hear it that we are hearing things.

[chameau]

Just say you do not hear it Chameau.  Please don't try to tell us (me) who do hear it that we are hearing things.

I didn't hear it, I'm sure it's not in the movie, I don't share your point of view BUT I respect it 

[NoReins]

Well, like I said chameau, I didn't really hear him say anything, but his lips definitely move and not just in a sobbing, quivering lip way. He's definitey saying something

I think that you're right - it kind of goes against everything else in the movie if Heath ad-libbed "I love you" here so now I'm starting to think that maybe he said something else? Something in a similar vein to "Jack, I swear..." maybe?

I think I'll have to go and sit right in front of the tv tomorrow morning and watch this a few times over to see if I can make anything else out. Aren't there any lip readers on here that can help??

[Patriot1]

I think that you're right - it kind of goes against everything else in the movie if Heath ad-libbed "I love you" here so now I'm starting to think that maybe he said something else?

Ninety-nine percent of all people here have been saying that all through the movie Ennis has been in love with Jack.  Why would it "goes against everything else in the movie" if Ennis says "I love you?"  Granted, it would be the first time he said it, but according to you all, he has felt it for twenty years.

[NoReins]

I think that you're right - it kind of goes against everything else in the movie if Heath ad-libbed "I love you" here so now I'm starting to think that maybe he said something else?

Ninety-nine percent of all people here have been saying that all through the movie Ennis has been in love with Jack.  Why would it "goes against everything else in the movie" if Ennis says "I love you?"  Granted, it would be the first time he said it, but according to you all, he has felt it for twenty years.

Yeah, you're right Patriot1 - I'm part of that 99%. I think I maybe expressed myself badly above - what I really meant was that Ennis has never been able to say how he feels, and he certainly never makes any statement of love (although he shows it over and over again) so it would go against his character to actually say "I love you", even though it's when Jack can no longer hear him.

I'm certainly not saying that nothing was said in that scene though - I saw Heath's lips move - just that I'm not 100% convinced it was "I love you".

[Patriot1]

Yeah, you're right Patriot1 - I'm part of that 99%. I think I maybe expressed myself badly above - what I really meant was that Ennis has never been able to say how he feels, and he certainly never makes any statement of love (although he shows it over and over again) so it would go against his character to actually say "I love you", even though it's when Jack can no longer hear him.

I'm certainly not saying that nothing was said in that scene though - I saw Heath's lips move - just that I'm not 100% convinced it was "I love you".

Ennis has just seen the shock of his life.  He suddenly realizes that Jack has been in love with him for twenty years.  Why would it be out of character for him to tell Jack he loved him?  He isn't saying it to Jack.  He isn't saying it out loud.  It is still a repressed "I love you" but it would be the most natural thing to say at that moment.

If not "I love you", then what?  What else would fit at that time and place? 

[NoReins]

If not "I love you", then what?  What else would fit at that time and place? 

I don't know. I can't think of anything else....

I've just watched that bit half a dozen times with the volume on the surround sound cranked way up and I'm still not 100% sure, but it does sound a lot like "I love you". Maybe you're right, Patriot1, that the shock of his discovery, the realisation that Jack was in love with him all those years, makes him remember that he never told Jack how he felt and fills him with a sudden need to "say it back".

Whether he does or not, this scene breaks my heart every time :'( :'(

[proulxfan]

IMO, " I love you" fits beautifully, as in addition to our knowlege of Ennis's love for Jack from their first summer, we also are witnesses to the numerous times Jack tries vainly to get Ennis to verbalize his feelings for him in some way. And when Ennis is finally able to comply, Jack is gone. It is too late, and it is Ennis's realization of that fact that prompts the expression, almost involuntarily or sub-consciously. There is no way I can see that lessening the power of the tragedy; if anything it heightens it. It is not really audible at normal volumes, it isn't in any of the available texts and doesn't show up on the captions, so I'm not insisting that it is an established fact. Nor do I insist that others must hear it. But I believe it does fit perfectly, and if present, is another testimony to the brilliance of Mr. Ledger's performance because his understanding of the character Ennis Del Mar proceeds from bone depth. I was already inclined to build a shrine or statue to Heath after I found out it was his idea to reverse the shirts; if this was an ad-lib from him, I am convinced that a mere Best Actor Oscar was not worthy of his work. Perhaps we should contact someone on the Nobel committee. OT, but I don't care!

Peace, y'all

[NoReins]

But I believe it does fit perfectly, and if present, is another testimony to the brilliance of Mr. Ledger's performance because his understanding of the character Ennis Del Mar proceeds from bone depth. I was already inclined to build a shrine or statue to Heath after I found out it was his idea to reverse the shirts; if this was an ad-lib from him, I am convinced that a mere Best Actor Oscar was not worthy of his work. Perhaps we should contact someone on the Nobel committee. OT, but I don't care!

Now that's one shrine I could worship at all day

[Valandil Eluch]

IMO, " I love you" fits beautifully, as in addition to our knowlege of Ennis's love for Jack from their first summer, we also are witnesses to the numerous times Jack tries vainly to get Ennis to verbalize his feelings for him in some way. And when Ennis is finally able to comply, Jack is gone. It is too late, and it is Ennis's realization of that fact that prompts the expression, almost involuntarily or sub-consciously. There is no way I can see that lessening the power of the tragedy; if anything it heightens it. It is not really audible at normal volumes, it isn't in any of the available texts and doesn't show up on the captions, so I'm not insisting that it is an established fact. Nor do I insist that others must hear it. But I believe it does fit perfectly, and if present, is another testimony to the brilliance of Mr. Ledger's performance because his understanding of the character Ennis Del Mar proceeds from bone depth. I was already inclined to build a shrine or statue to Heath after I found out it was his idea to reverse the shirts; if this was an ad-lib from him, I am convinced that a mere Best Actor Oscar was not worthy of his work. Perhaps we should contact someone on the Nobel committee. OT, but I don't care!

Peace, y'all

tha is a beautiful post!!!

[NoReins]

Watched this little bit of the scene half a dozen times last night and I don't know how much it has to do with power of suggestion, but I'm definitely hearing "I love you" now.....

[Padmé Briseis]

Didn´t hear "I love you" I agree with chameau ....(little bit offtopic - I saw "loving you" in cinema in subtitles :D When Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you" Czech translation was: I wish I knew how to stop loving you. Bad translation but very cute...

[chameau]

Results of the poll to this date

21 persons heard it (42%)
28 persons didn't hear it (57%)

[Valandil Eluch]

we're gonna need to record that scene and raise the volume all the way up!!! i'll try but i'll need to ge a mic first!

[Patriot1]

we're gonna need to record that scene and raise the volume all the way up!!! i'll try but i'll need to ge a mic first!

What is really sad is that all these pictures come out that have absolutely nothing to do with the final produce and yet there are no sound tacks available without the music.  Without the music you could hear everything.

[NoReins]

Results of the poll to this date

21 persons heard it (42%)
28 persons didn't hear it (57%)

chameau - the poll is inaccurate. I originally voted no (based on one viewing at the cinema), but I'm now a yes (based on several million viewings of my dvd!) but I can't change my vote...

[proulxfan]

we're gonna need to record that scene and raise the volume all the way up!!! i'll try but i'll need to ge a mic first!

What is really sad is that all these pictures come out that have absolutely nothing to do with the final produce and yet there are no sound tacks available without the music.  Without the music you could hear everything.

Interesting thought, Patriot1. If they add audio tracks in "layers" why not set up the DVD so that the music can be switched off? It certainly shouldn't present any technical difficulties to enable this feature.

[chameau]

Results of the poll to this date

21 persons heard it (42%)
28 persons didn't hear it (57%)

chameau - the poll is inaccurate. I originally voted no (based on one viewing at the cinema), but I'm now a yes (based on several million viewings of my dvd!) but I can't change my vote...

Good point!

[Valandil Eluch]

we're gonna need to record that scene and raise the volume all the way up!!! i'll try but i'll need to ge a mic first!

What is really sad is that all these pictures come out that have absolutely nothing to do with the final produce and yet there are no sound tacks available without the music.  Without the music you could hear everything.

i have a software sony soundforce you can do that like i said i don't have a microphone for that!

[stacp]

I have watched this scene again and again (oh the research I do in the name of BBM) to see if I hear the "I love you."  I would love to hear it.  I do hear Ennis say "Jack" when he pulls the shirts toward him, but I do not hear the "I love you." I do see Ennis' mouth quiver and maybe an exhale of breath, but that's it.  I know Annie Proulx has said that their love is "unspeakable" (I'm paraphrasing here).  But she also said Heath knew Ennis better than she did.  So, Heath may have ad-libbed the "I love you."  But I know that's what Ennis was thinking in that moment.   :'(

[Patriot1]

I have watched this scene again and again (oh the research I do in the name of BBM) to see if I hear the "I love you."  I would love to hear it.  I do hear Ennis say "Jack" when he pulls the shirts toward him, but I do not hear the "I love you." I do see Ennis' mouth quiver and maybe an exhale of breath, but that's it.  I know Annie Proulx has said that their love is "unspeakable" (I'm paraphrasing here).  But she also said Heath knew Ennis better than she did.  So, Heath may have ad-libbed the "I love you."  But I know that's what Ennis was thinking in that moment.   :'(

Someone else here said she heard Ennis say "Jack" but as much as I listened I could never hear it.  I definitely hear "I love you." 

Your turn Chameau.   

[stacp]

I have watched this scene again and again (oh the research I do in the name of BBM) to see if I hear the "I love you."  I would love to hear it.  I do hear Ennis say "Jack" when he pulls the shirts toward him, but I do not hear the "I love you." I do see Ennis' mouth quiver and maybe an exhale of breath, but that's it.  I know Annie Proulx has said that their love is "unspeakable" (I'm paraphrasing here).  But she also said Heath knew Ennis better than she did.  So, Heath may have ad-libbed the "I love you."  But I know that's what Ennis was thinking in that moment.   :'(

Someone else here said she heard Ennis say "Jack" but as much as I listened I could never hear it.  I definitely hear "I love you." 

Your turn Chameau.   

The "Jack" is very, very faint.  Ennis says it, I believe, right after he puts his right hand on the shirt, and before he brings it up to his chest to embrace.  His lips barely move, but Ennis says a whole lot with his lips no mor than a quarter of an inch open!  I think when he says "Jack," in that moment, it hits Ennis like a ton of bricks; how much Jack loved him, how much he loved Jack, and what he could have done for love but didn't.

[NoReins]

Now, see, that's the first time I've seen any mention of Ennis saying "Jack" when he first picks up the shirts - I've obviously never heard that myself.

Does this mean I'm going to have to watch again?

[LuvJackNasty]

I have watched this scene again and again (oh the research I do in the name of BBM) to see if I hear the "I love you."  I would love to hear it.  I do hear Ennis say "Jack" when he pulls the shirts toward him, but I do not hear the "I love you." I do see Ennis' mouth quiver and maybe an exhale of breath, but that's it.  I know Annie Proulx has said that their love is "unspeakable" (I'm paraphrasing here).  But she also said Heath knew Ennis better than she did.  So, Heath may have ad-libbed the "I love you."  But I know that's what Ennis was thinking in that moment.   :'(

Someone else here said she heard Ennis say "Jack" but as much as I listened I could never hear it.  I definitely hear "I love you." 

Your turn Chameau.   

The "Jack" is very, very faint.  Ennis says it, I believe, right after he puts his right hand on the shirt, and before he brings it up to his chest to embrace.  His lips barely move, but Ennis says a whole lot with his lips no mor than a quarter of an inch open!  I think when he says "Jack," in that moment, it hits Ennis like a ton of bricks; how much Jack loved him, how much he loved Jack, and what he could have done for love but didn't.

THANK YOU!!!! That was me and I'm glad you hear it too! That's exactly where it is!    His hand goes to the shirt pocket and it's faint but I heard him say "Jack". I picked that up on my quest to hear "I Love You"- which I did.

[Patriot1]

THANK YOU!!!! That was me and I'm glad you hear it too! That's exactly where it is!    His hand goes to the shirt pocket and it's faint but I heard him say "Jack". I picked that up on my quest to hear "I Love You"- which I did.

Well, I listened and listened and listened and still can not hear him say Jack.  But, that is okay.  I hear the most important part...."I love you."

[LuvJackNasty]

THANK YOU!!!! That was me and I'm glad you hear it too! That's exactly where it is!    His hand goes to the shirt pocket and it's faint but I heard him say "Jack". I picked that up on my quest to hear "I Love You"- which I did.

Well, I listened and listened and listened and still can not hear him say Jack.  But, that is okay.  I hear the most important part...."I love you."

I'm just happy someone else heard it- a sanity check of sorts! 

[karen1129]

I have watched this scene again and again (oh the research I do in the name of BBM) to see if I hear the "I love you."  I would love to hear it.  I do hear Ennis say "Jack" when he pulls the shirts toward him, but I do not hear the "I love you." I do see Ennis' mouth quiver and maybe an exhale of breath, but that's it.  I know Annie Proulx has said that their love is "unspeakable" (I'm paraphrasing here).  But she also said Heath knew Ennis better than she did.  So, Heath may have ad-libbed the "I love you."  But I know that's what Ennis was thinking in that moment.   :'(

Well pooh.  I haven't caught Ennis saying "Jack" when he pulls those shirts to him.  Now I gotta go listen again ! Sigh ! :D
That scene almost pulls my guts out though. 

[Kemmer]

I'll stick to Ennis tears and silence in Jack's bedroom, it's already too much for me.  :'(

Not too mention the bloody music  :'( :'( :'( but it's off topic

Someone earlier--somewhere on this site--said she was going to have "Wings" from the BBM CD played at her wedding.  I'm never much affected by weddings, but I know that if "Wings" was ever played at a gay union ceremony I attended, I would be a sobbing, crumpled mess!

[Valandil Eluch]

I'll stick to Ennis tears and silence in Jack's bedroom, it's already too much for me.  :'(

Not too mention the bloody music  :'( :'( :'( but it's off topic

Someone earlier--somewhere on this site--said she was going to have "Wings" from the BBM CD played at her wedding.  I'm never much affected by weddings, but I know that if "Wings" was ever played at a gay union ceremony I attended, I would be a sobbing, crumpled mess!

kemmer
it was not a she it was he since i know who he was