Author Topic: how many lies were told?  (Read 102451 times)

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: how many lies were told?
« Reply #180 on: Sep 07, 2010, 12:21 AM »
"nothing, nowhere" was not all about ennis's lamentations on being broke or not having a good enough job.. it could be not at all about such things.. it was far beyond all these, he was describing his state of being, his despairs

Yup. I think you got that right, haveacrush. Ennis wasn't the kind who was troubled by any lack of material things. He was more troubled, at that point, by the lack of a future with Jack. When Jack expressed his frustration with the "unsatisfactory situation" by saying "I wish I knew how to quit you," all Ennis could do was to try to stand still and not collapse from the despair that you speak, the same despair that burned slowly in Jack for a decade since the divorce, that drove him to drink more and more. The weight of a decade of despair fell on Ennis in that instant. It almost crushed him.

Ennis spoke the truth...he was nothing without Jack, he was nowhere going around in circles meeting Jack a few times a year, and sometimes less.

He couldn't take it no more, and Jack helped him by dying...leaving behind the two shirts and a memory of their love.

With that, Ennis was some body, some where...a man loved and was loved, living on his memories and in his dreams.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: how many lies were told?
« Reply #181 on: Sep 07, 2010, 10:06 AM »
[Moderators, feel free to exercise your vital powers; most of YouTube is more of copyright violation.. #)]

You're welcome CH!

I tried to write an abridged transliteration of Mr Lee's interview but it just didn't work out: me, a non-native-speaker reciting another one wouldn't just justify the objective. I don't want to compromise the train of thought. So, you can download an audio file, AL_Jap_int.mp3, here; 5.6 MB, 24:27. It's only 32 kbps but quite audible. Sorry for the ads!

Here are the pictures showing the questions in Japanese for our 日本語を話す friends and others too...
(@mm:ss on the audio file)
Thank you so much for this so interesting interview's translation,rdx ¡  :^^)  By the way,how do you obtain so many informations around the world ? You're a great investigator ¡


Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: how many lies were told?
« Reply #182 on: Sep 07, 2010, 12:04 PM »
Thanks rdx. Those screen captures tell the story all their own. Two people hurting in their own way, and as you said, sharing a moment of grief separated by thousands of mile in distance, and months apart in the evolution of that grief in time.

I think it was the genius of Ang Lee, and the great performance of Anne Hathaway that the scene evokes so many different interpretations. Just like much of the rest of the movie, it walks the fine like that balances on the border of different interpretation, without giving a definitive answer. At first viewing, I felt it strange that Lureen was so mechanical in reciting the death of her husband in such a fashion, but then reading the interpretations here online, I can understand the possible explanation of her repeating the same story over and over. The emotional subtext of her reaction to Ennis's revelation about Brokeback is also poignant. But it just occurred to me now, that the much talked about imperfection of her nail polish, also shows a woman, a wife, who is no longer mourning her dead husband. Lureen was over the death of Jack. The mechanical recital perhaps reflect the lack of grief on her part months later. The emotion evoked by Ennis was telling. It showed that she still loved Jack, even though she knew that he was not in love with her. I don't necessarily agree with rdx that Lureen was comforted by knowing Ennis also loved Jack. I think in a way, she had mixed feelings...both anger and jealousy, and also sympathy and shared grief.
On the one hand, she told Ennis to go see Jack's folks where half his ashes went. She didn't have to say that, or tell him anything, but I think she understood that he loved Jack, and Jack loved him, so she was doing right by him, doing right by them, angry or not. The way she slammed down the phone and shocked Ennis also showed that she was angry. It's amazing that Anne Hathaway showed such a range of emotion, deep and powerful, in the short span of time during the scene. Of course, Heath brings out the best in everyone, just like he did in the scene with Jack's ma in the kitchen.

Thanks again rdx. Those screen caps are awe inspiring.

I agree almost completely in your interpretation about Lureen's behaviour while talking with Ennis;more specially,of course,about the mixed feelings she had,not only about her late husband,but also about Ennis himself.But I don't necessarily think that she felt any kind of sympathy and/or empathy forwards her rival; she immediately knew who that man was,and that because of this man and his relationship with Jack,she had been hurt as a wife and as a woman.Of course,yes,she had with this man a shared grief for Jack's death,but I'm afraid that for rather different reasons at that point of their marriage...In this sense,you say that she didn't have to tell Ennis to go to Twists home,and it's also true; but,can't it be possible that this idea was a kind of revenge against her rival?
I wondering that because she hadn't ever been to their house,but she knew for sure what kind of man OMT was;so,addressing Ennis there,she was sure of what he was going to hear and overcome on the part of her father-in-law(about Jack's possible moving on with another man or about any other point that was going to hurt him the way she felt hurt too...).As you say very well,the way she slammed down the phone reveals that she was angry,and this feeling couldn't be solved with only beating the earpiece ¡.As a matter of fact,I repeat that the only moment we see tears in her eyes is when she realises that she was talking with her husband's lover and the cause of all her marriage problems in the end...I see that point clearer now,even if the clearest point in everything is both her sorrow,anger and shame for having been cheated with another man(something strong enough as to elaborate a revenge) and Anne's incredible performance to show it all.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline rdx

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Re: how many lies were told?
« Reply #183 on: Sep 07, 2010, 01:50 PM »
Thank you so much for this so interesting interview's translation,rdx ¡  :^^)  By the way,how do you obtain so many informations around the world ? You're a great investigator ¡
*o)
Gracias Ms myprivatejack! I've translated nothing: just clicked the record button. "Knowledge is power" (paraphrased) said Francis Bacon in his days; in the world of today I'd say "Knowledge is power..shared".
"I'm spurrin' his guts out! Wavin' to the girls in the stands! He's kickin' me to high heaven, but he don't jackboard me! No!" Jack

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: how many lies were told?
« Reply #184 on: Sep 07, 2010, 10:58 PM »
Wow I finally listened to the Ang Lee audio and it's awesome!  :t) rdx.

I was multitasking so I actually missed a lot of it, especially the brief segment on the phone conversation between Lureen and Ennis.

What I love about it was all the new insight into the way Ang Lee make movies, from preparation to interaction with the actors. Also the many impressions of his. He really shared a lot of information that he never shared with the western media. That's the benefit of a receptive and respectful audience.

You can bet I will be listening to it again, and again.  :t) again.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: how many lies were told?
« Reply #185 on: Nov 24, 2010, 12:27 PM »
Coming back to the topic,I'd say that the greatest(and most tragic) lie,because it joins all the others that came with time's passing,is what they told to themselves and to each other.Denying-each one of them in their own way-they couldn't love anybody but one another was in the root of all their problems that began in the very first moment they left for the first time,down off the mountain.If one is a liar with oneself,how many lies can come before the first one?... :-\\
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.