Topic: what if Ennis hadn't gone to Jack?

[shieldmaid]

I brought my DVD to work today and must have watched the 2nd tent scene 10 times.  After a while, I got to thinking: what if Ennis hadn't been able to muster up the courage to leave his seat by the fire and go to Jack in the tent?  Increasingly, my favorite part of that whole scene is when Ennis is sitting by the fire and glances over at Jack before deciding to get up (in the screenplay, it says something like, "Glances at tent. Decides").  You can see by the way he straightens up slowly, with his hands on his thighs, that it's taking a lot of courage for him to cross over to Jack.  Yet he wants to so badly . . . .

So what do you think?  If Ennis had not gone to Jack that night, would Jack have made his move in some other way?  Or would Ennis?  What other opportunities might they have had to affirm their love for each other?

[greenfrog]

Knowing what Jack is like, if not that night then another night. Or maybe even Jack might have gone out to join him by the fire. 

[filazahies]

Knowing what Jack is like, if not that night then another night. Or maybe even Jack might have gone out to join him by the fire. 

I do believe the same. Jack is like a "restless warrior" in this story. All through their relationship he's the one to take the first step. So, surely he would have found another occassion to "provoke" Ennis and get what he wanted

[forbiddenlovers]

Had Ennis not went to him that night, I think Jack would have eventually made his move. But not as quickly or as easily as he seemed to in the first night.  I think Jack would have been afraid of Ennis' reaction more the second time if he tried something. But, he would have done it eventually.
And I'm with you, I love Ennis' body language in that scene. He wants to go in so badly, but he's so conflicted and he showed that well. Great acting on Heath's part!!

[LuvJackNasty]

Knowing what Jack is like, if not that night then another night. Or maybe even Jack might have gone out to join him by the fire. 

I think that Jack may have went out to him by the fire. I took Ennis' comment of "this is a one shot thing we got going on here" to mean that that was for their time on Brokebackand Ennis showing some form of acceptance. So I think Jack wouldn't have been uncomfortable in approaching Ennis about the subject.

And yes, Heath did a great job in showing that internal conflict Ennis was having about wanting to go into that tent.

[forbiddenlovers]

That's true, when Ennis said this is a one shot thing, I think Jack would have been comfortable making that next move, you're right. And yes, if Ennis didn't come in the tent, even shirtless and ready for bed I think Jack would have come out to the fire to be with Ennis!

[Valandil Eluch]

wow a wonderful thread i was thinking the same yesterday, well it is actually really interesting to think in that What Jack could have done? well i  think as many of you that he would have probably looked for another way to be with Ennis maybe not that same night but maybe the next one to talk to him and get closer to him. after that first night Ennis was not that unconmfortable with Jack it is true that One shot statement shows Ennis' acceptance with the tent sex and Jack would have tried in other ways to get Ennis  be with him.

[NoReins]

even shirtless and ready for bed I think Jack would have come out to the fire to be with Ennis!

Heh heh - I don't think being ready for bed was why Jack was shirtless in that scene

In response to the thread - yes, Jack would definitely have come out to Ennis if Ennis hadn't gone into the tent.

[forbiddenlovers]

heh heh NoReins, definitely not ready for "sleep" at least, heh heh.

Hey, you got my icon too!! lol

[Tom]

I just watched this scene prior to reading this and loved all the glances Ennis gives the tent. If you watch the tent you will see Jack sitting and moving about as well. Then when Ennis decides and stands and lovingly moves to the tent and squats in the doorway and they just look at each other.....my oh my oh my...I love this.

[forbiddenlovers]

I think that part of the scene, Ennis coming up to the tent, Jack sitting up to meet him shows that their feelings are too powerful and they succumb to them. Nice touching scene and really great for us that loved FNIT, but yearned for something not so rushed. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED FNIT, but I loved the sincerity of the SNIT Both hold equal parts for me.

Ann

[shieldmaid]

Yes, I agree, and part of what I love so much here is that once Ennis does decide to go to the tent, he's so scared (is that the right word?) that he can barely look Jack in the eyes, but Jack holds onto him, sets his hat aside, and eases him into the tent.  The tenderness of their time together--I feel shaky every time I think about or watch it.  It seemed clear to me that Jack was waiting for him to come in, but he must have been a little nervous about it--and relieved when he finally sees Ennis standing there.

[forbiddenlovers]

Totally, shieldmaid!!  Ennis was scared, I agree with that term. Not so much scared of the situation, moreso scare of his feelings, scared to let himself go.  We see Jack in the tent, his eyes showing that he's thinking hard. We see Ennis come to the tent and for that moment, we see a shy man in Ennis. So unsure of what he wants, yet sure enough to know that he does want Jack, he just can voice it.  That's one thing I love about this movie also. Ennis plays the more rugged, masculine character, yet he's so vulnerable in some of these scenes and it's as if Jack takes the lead. I love that!!

Ann

[xvbbJ]

I brought my DVD to work today and must have watched the 2nd tent scene 10 times.  After a while, I got to thinking: what if Ennis hadn't been able to muster up the courage to leave his seat by the fire and go to Jack in the tent?  Increasingly, my favorite part of that whole scene is when Ennis is sitting by the fire and glances over at Jack before deciding to get up (in the screenplay, it says something like, "Glances at tent. Decides").  You can see by the way he straightens up slowly, with his hands on his thighs, that it's taking a lot of courage for him to cross over to Jack.  Yet he wants to so badly . . . .

So what do you think?  If Ennis had not gone to Jack that night, would Jack have made his move in some other way?  Or would Ennis?  What other opportunities might they have had to affirm their love for each other?

If Ennis hadn't been able to muster up the courage to go to Jack in the tent... They probably would have died without knowing what love, and real passion feel like. Probably could've been happy with their wives and children. Of course, they wouldn't have experienced a lot of pain either.
Maybe that one small scene wouldn't have changed a thing as they were meant for each other, and their story would've happened anyway. Jack's and Ennis' story is so real, and like real stories, it's fate that some stories happen. I like to believe that there is a deeper meaning to everything that happens, and chance isn't playing that big a role in life.

[Asali]

Had Ennis not went to him that night, I think Jack would have eventually made his move. But not as quickly or as easily as he seemed to in the first night.  I think Jack would have been afraid of Ennis' reaction more the second time if he tried something. But, he would have done it eventually.
And I'm with you, I love Ennis' body language in that scene. He wants to go in so badly, but he's so conflicted and he showed that well. Great acting on Heath's part!!

This is an interesting topic. I feel much the same as this post that Jack may have attempted to make a move again but the fear of Ennis's reaction may have taken a while longer.

[tpe]

This is an interesting topic. I feel much the same as this post that Jack may have attempted to make a move again but the fear of Ennis's reaction may have taken a while longer.

I do think it was inevitable, since I believe that both of them wanted it, even though Ennis was much less forthcoming with himself...

Yes, I think it was just a matter of time.  They would have somehow found another way...  Getting drunk again in camp, perhaps?

[myprivatejack]

  Or perhaps-surely,better said...-without getting drunk ¡ I also believe that it was only a matter of time,and not too much.Their sexual tension was too great as to avoid it,but Jack knew Ennis reactions and fear very well and,the same than he did all his life,he had been waiting for the right moment.He always knew also how not to force Ennis too much in order not to make him hide himself.

[smartestsonia]

I think jack would just be beside Ennis..but not get too close to him as he knew how scared Ennis was...he would not put himself on him completely ..although he would just make Ennis realize that he wants him...

[rimasworld]

It was left to the imagination what happened before jack went in to the tent and left ennis sitting outside. i wonder what was said between them, if they were quiet pretty much and uncomfortable maybe just making small talk at most. something must have happened though to influence ennis in to making the decision to stay in camp. probably just weighing his inner conflict and his attraction to jack. as we know the attraction to jack won him over despite himself.

[tpe]

I try to think of other circumsnatnces that would have allowed them to hook up, had the attempt leading to the FNIT failed.  The closest I can think of is the scene during thre hailstorm.  They would have been forced to be with each other then, no?


As for the scene before the SNIT, I would assume that it was largely wordless...

[myprivatejack]

I try to think of other circumsnatnces that would have allowed them to hook up, had the attempt leading to the FNIT failed.  The closest I can think of is the scene during thre hailstorm.  They would have been forced to be with each other then, no?
As for the scene before the SNIT, I would assume that it was largely wordless...

I don't know any concrete circumstances-maybe what you have remarked is one of the most direct...-,but it's something that had to happen,no matter how,when or where,whereas they knew perfectly WHY.
And I also suppose that the previous scenes before SNIT had been mainly wordless,guided for some shame and fear for both sides; they were together then and there-letting aside how much they could wish it...-for a simple reason of survivals,for having supper and rest a little.I guess that not because they had too many things to talk about...not in those confused moments.

[tpe]

I think it had to happen because they wanted it to happen -- whether consciously or subconsciously.  And yes, I think the scene before FNIT was very halting because they knew that they wanted it, but didn't want to appear vulnerable -- it was a battle of appearances.

 

[myprivatejack]

Of course, they didn't say too many words simply because they didn't know what to talk about in those moments; as you say,it's not only confusion,fear or shame,but the wish of not appearing too vulnerable in front of the other.I think there was a complete mess of feelings and sensations inside them then,but a kind of pride was present too.Even if we saw as,a little time after,Ennis wasn't afraid anymore of showing vulnerable,and introducing himself to Jack as the battle's loser.

[tpe]

It certainly was a "complete mess of feelings and sensations".  I was not surprised that Jack was fearful at that moment, because Ennis was inscrutable. 

Even by the fire, right before the SNIT, Ennis seemed hesitant and doubtful.  Jack wanted to appear confident -- as if he knew that Ennis would give in at the very end.  But perhaps Jack was also thinking about contingencies -- what to do if Ennis didn't go into the tent.  Would Jack have gone out himself to push Ennis over the edge?

[Asali]

I think Jack would have tried somehow to get Ennis but I doubt it would have been quite like FNIT and I am sure he was thinking about contingencies.
I do think that Ennis would have finally given in to his feelings at some stage while trying to figure out his feelings through mixed emotions.

[myprivatejack]

I think Jack would have tried somehow to get Ennis but I doubt it would have been quite like FNIT and I am sure he was thinking about contingencies.
I do think that Ennis would have finally given in to his feelings at some stage while trying to figure out his feelings through mixed emotions.

I totally agree,Pauline¡    Sooner or later,Jack would have tried to "convince" Ennis and this would have given up,even if both of them had had an inner struggle; the first one to wait for the right moment and the second one,to know when and what this right moment had been.

[tpe]

Yes, I think Ennis would inevitably capitulate -- not because of Jack's efforts (though they help) but because -- deep down -- he wanted it.  It was wntirely congruent with his desires, even though his sense of propriety could not accept/admit it openly.

[smartestsonia]

I think that Jack would have approached Enis some other time and even a slight hint from Jack would have made Ennis be himself with Jack and give in to his feelings...
it could not be denied by both eventually...

[tpe]

Well, I think that Jack was a little bit past denial.  With Ennis, I am sometimes unsure whether he ever got out of it.  I think a part of him did -- the part that acknowledged his love for Jack.  But I don't a part of him understood the depth of that love until it was way too late.

[myprivatejack]

Well, I think that Jack was a little bit past denial.  With Ennis, I am sometimes unsure whether he ever got out of it.  I think a part of him did -- the part that acknowledged his love for Jack.  But I don't a part of him understood the depth of that love until it was way too late.

Yes,and hence his constant contradictions and doubts...