Topic: sitting on the mountain together

[shieldmaid]

Today I was surreptitiously watching selected scenes at work, and I got to thinking about the scene between the two tent scenes, when Jack is lying on his side on the mountain and Ennis comes by to talk to him and perhaps "get things straight" between them.  I love this scene because their facial expressions are so subtle and yet communicate so much--I'm amazed that Heath can show so much of his anxiety and discomfort even from a side angle.  We can see Ennis turning his head slightly to glance at Jack a few times, and his jaw tightening and relaxing before he speaks.  I was wondering, after watching this a few times, whether he comes up there with that specific intention.  Does he intend to tell Jack that they're "just friends"?  Or does seeing Jack again maybe make him amend his statement to "this is a one-shot thing we've got going on here"?  This scene contains my least favorite line in the whole movie--"you know I ain't queer"--yet it also shows them trying to communicate verbally for the first time.  I wonder what Jack thought Ennis was coming up there to do--shoot him (as someone else suggested elsewhere in this forum)?  Talk to him?  Say he was sorry?  That he loved him?  Could things have gone differently with them if they had said more?  I just kept thinking about all these things since immediately after this scene they have their night of tenderness in the tent.

Thoughts?

[tpe]

I had always thought here that it was Jack who came up to where Ennis was herding the sheep.

Jack should have been in camp at that time.

He wanted to be with Ennis, and see how things stood between the two of them.

Ennis realized the strangeness of Jack being up there and so he knew what was afoot. 

Both had to verbally communicate somehow.  Jack was probably afraid that Ennis would repudiate the first night.  He was anxious.  Ennis was nervous.  They tried to articulate what both of them did not yet fully understand.

This is the beauty of this scene.

[LuvJackNasty]

Like TPE I thought it was Jack that went up there as Ennis was already up there.
After Ennis rode off without even a response to "See you for supper" I don't think Jack was going to stay in the camp all day and wonder what was going on.

[shieldmaid]

I had always thought here that it was Jack who came up to where Ennis was herding the sheep.

Jack should have been in camp at that time.

He wanted to be with Ennis, and see how things stood between the two of them.

Ennis realized the strangeness of Jack being up there and so he knew what was afoot. 

Both had to verbally communicate somehow.  Jack was probably afraid that Ennis would repudiate the first night.  He was anxious.  Ennis was nervous.  They tried to articulate what both of them did not yet fully understand.

This is the beauty of this scene.

Ohhh . . . <light dawns>  That makes sense.  I don't know why I never thought of that before.  Because both of their horses are there, of course.  Well, anyway, I love this scene.  Their intense need to talk to one another--their shyness and fidgeting--their awakening desire.  The cinematography makes the whole scene so iconic: they come together on BBM, as the sun is going down, sitting apart yet positioned at the beginning of their relationship.  Sighhh . . .

[tpe]

Well, anyway, I love this scene.  Their intense need to talk to one another--their shyness and fidgeting--their awakening desire.  The cinematography makes the whole scene so iconic: they come together on BBM, as the sun is going down, sitting apart yet positioned at the beginning of their relationship.  Sighhh . . .

Yes, I love this scene very much also.  They were hardly looking at each other, and yet the air was thinck with anticipation and unsaid feelings.  You could sense the tension.  And the very atmosphere was electric.

Another perfect example when beautiful economy rules in this movie.

[MississaugaRed]

Well, anyway, I love this scene.  Their intense need to talk to one another--their shyness and fidgeting--their awakening desire.  The cinematography makes the whole scene so iconic: they come together on BBM, as the sun is going down, sitting apart yet positioned at the beginning of their relationship.  Sighhh . . .

Yes, I love this scene very much also.  They were hardly looking at each other, and yet the air was thinck with anticipation and unsaid feelings.  You could sense the tension.  And the very atmosphere was electric.

Another perfect example when beautiful economy rules in this movie.

Yes, this scene is so touching, heartachingly sweet.  Jack looks so vulnerable, first thing in the morning, then later lying on the mountain. That little sigh he gives before Ennis starts to speak.  He really doesn't know how Ennis is going to respond to what happened between them.  Gives me the feeling that maybe he's been in this position before (if we assume that he's not completely inexperienced with men) and that maybe the morning after hadn't gone well in the past, so he's especially leery now, waiting for possible rejection from a man he has more than just phyical feelings for. 

Does that make any sense? As you say, the beautiful economy that rules this movie leaves so much open for us to interpret.

[tpe]

It makes sense to me.  Thanks MississaugaRed.

[NoReins]

Makes sense to me too. If it was that way, Jack's heart must have been going ninety to the dozen when Ennis started to speak....

[Valandil Eluch]

I agree with you!!!

[keren_b]

Jack's heart must have been going ninety to the dozen when Ennis started to speak....

Oh, definitely. They've been thinking about it all day, rolling what happened over and over again in their heads... I think Jack was very aware of his feelings by this point, he knew what he wanted while Ennis was still confused and in denial. As I wrote elsewhere, I think that when he told Jack it was a one shot thing and that he wasn't queer, he was more trying to convince himself of that. And Jack looked... I can't find the words to describe what he looked like just before Ennis began to speak. he glanced at him and he looked... anxious? nervous? hopefull? I don't know. you can actually FEEL the tension in the air, this whole scene is so loaded. and I love the shot of them from behind, sitting next to each other - that's the wallpaper on my desktop... 

[Valandil Eluch]

Jack's heart must have been going ninety to the dozen when Ennis started to speak....

Oh, definitely. They've been thinking about it all day, rolling what happened over and over again in their heads... I think Jack was very aware of his feelings by this point, he knew what he wanted while Ennis was still confused and in denial. As I wrote elsewhere, I think that when he told Jack it was a one shot thing and that he wasn't queer, he was more trying to convince himself of that. And Jack looked... I can't find the words to describe what he looked like just before Ennis began to speak. he glanced at him and he looked... anxious? nervous? hopefull? I don't know. you can actually FEEL the tension in the air, this whole scene is so loaded. and I love the shot of them from behind, sitting next to each other - that's the wallpaper on my desktop... 

I agree with you Keren that comment was not for jack was more for him, he was so confused on his own feelings at that moment he was having feelings towards Jack and that destroyed the plan he have for his life! he was aware that the FNIT would change his life forever and even with alma as we know she lived under Jack shadow. Ennis was tryingto find a way to convinced himself he was not going to do it again that's you can see how conflicted he is in the SNIT thinking twice before going to the tent with Jack

[ellyjay]

This is one of my favourite scenes.  It is getting darkish, so I have presumed that Jack waited all day, and then couldn't wait any more, so went up the mountain to see if he could fix things.   In terms of body language, watch the rifle in Ennis's hand.  As soon as he moved it to his other side, I knew the thing between them was bigger than he(Ennis) could ever deal with, and that their relationship would continue.  I knew things would be 'ok'. 

[MississaugaRed]

This is one of my favourite scenes.  It is getting darkish, so I have presumed that Jack waited all day, and then couldn't wait any more, so went up the mountain to see if he could fix things.   In terms of body language, watch the rifle in Ennis's hand.  As soon as he moved it to his other side, I knew the thing between them was bigger than he(Ennis) could ever deal with, and that their relationship would continue.  I knew things would be 'ok'. 

Ouch .. goose bumps again!  Ellyjay, now I'm going to have to look at that scene AGAIN to see that gesture of moving the rifle from one hand to the other.  Do you mean he moves it to open up room to be closer to Jack, with less between them??  That is so great, another dimension to a scene already full of body language.  Thank you for that.

[aimi15]

This is a fantastic thread, thank you so much for starting it. The first time i watched the film i was absolutely blown away by this scene. After the urgency and desperate passion of FNIT, and seeing Ennis riding through the barren landscape filled with confusion, the tension of this scene is REALLY intense. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for one of them to SAY something. I love the way Ennis approaches and just stands for seconds lookin into the distance before finally sitting, and the way Jack watches him do this, then looks down and sighs. There is so much in that few seconds of silence - hope, pain, disappointment, fear. For me its the perfect prelude to the romance and beauty of SNIT - its magical.

[Valandil Eluch]

This is a fantastic thread, thank you so much for starting it. The first time i watched the film i was absolutely blown away by this scene. After the urgency and desperate passion of FNIT, and seeing Ennis riding through the barren landscape filled with confusion, the tension of this scene is REALLY intense. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for one of them to SAY something. I love the way Ennis approaches and just stands for seconds lookin into the distance before finally sitting, and the way Jack watches him do this, then looks down and sighs. There is so much in that few seconds of silence - hope, pain, disappointment, fear. For me its the perfect prelude to the romance and beauty of SNIT - its magical.

indeed magical

[christie wood]

This is a fantastic thread, thank you so much for starting it. The first time i watched the film i was absolutely blown away by this scene. After the urgency and desperate passion of FNIT, and seeing Ennis riding through the barren landscape filled with confusion, the tension of this scene is REALLY intense. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for one of them to SAY something. I love the way Ennis approaches and just stands for seconds lookin into the distance before finally sitting, and the way Jack watches him do this, then looks down and sighs. There is so much in that few seconds of silence - hope, pain, disappointment, fear. For me its the perfect prelude to the romance and beauty of SNIT - its magical.

Shieldmaid, what a fantastic thread.  Thanks for bringing this scene up for discussion. I agree with what everyone has posted so far, and it was so interesting to read ellyjay's post about the rifle that Ennis was holding and how he moves it from one hand to the other.  I have never noticed this before, but it's a very clever use of non-verbal communication to express how Ennis is feeling.  I also love the way, just after Ennis sits down beside Jack, he looks slightly to the right (note he doesn't look at Jack head-on), and moves his shoulders back slightly, all in preparation to say something to Jack.  And you can sense the hope and fear in Jack, looking at Ennis, waiting for him to say something.  Because it has to be Ennis who speaks first, he was the one who left the camp without replying to Jack's "see you for supper". 

Aimi, I agree that you can feel the tension in the air between them.  I also think the use of music is outstanding in this scene.  It's so atmospheric and captures the tension perfectly between them, the intensity surrounding Ennis and Jack, whilst sitting on top of  a huge, barren landscape. I love the reproach from Jack after Ennis says "you know I aint queer".  "Me neither", which is said in such a way that says "well, seeing as you said that, I suppose I'd better say it too".  But it's a half-hearted attempt to convince himself as much as Ennis.

   

[NoReins]

I think Jack said "me neither" because he already knew that there was no way Ennis would continue "this thing" if he thought that Jack was "queer".

This is another scene I can't wait to see again. Hell, I just want to see the whole damn thing again

[aimi15]

I also find it interesting that Ennis on his return, never mentions to Jack the dead sheep. With all the emotions that must have been bubbling inside him he doesn't use this as a tool with which to reproach Jack - 'this is the consequence of what we did'. Instead hes straight to the point with their relationship - he must have known this was all Jack was interesting in hearing about at that moment, and doesn't lay his own guilt regarding the sheep at Jack's door.

Maybe i'm reading more into this than what is there but i keep finding examples of Ennis protecting and 'looking after' Jack and it makes me appreciate his character more and more.

[NoReins]

Another thing I hadn't noticed before Aimi - good spot.

Although Ennis was clearly upset by the dead sheep, though, I do think that the previous night has been pretty much all he's been thinking about all day. Do we not see him looking tormented, something clearly praying on his mind? I certainly remember there was something about that in the screenplay (which I've lent to a friend so I can't check right now) His friendship with Jack has already become very important to him - quite apart from all the other feelings he's discovering - and he knows that there has to be some sort of discussion about what happened otherwise they might not even be able to get back to being friends. So they need to talk, and bringing up the subject of the dead sheep would get in the way of that, so he leaves it out.

[aimi15]

Another thing I hadn't noticed before Aimi - good spot.

Although Ennis was clearly upset by the dead sheep, though, I do think that the previous night has been pretty much all he's been thinking about all day. Do we not see him looking tormented, something clearly praying on his mind? I certainly remember there was something about that in the screenplay (which I've lent to a friend so I can't check right now) His friendship with Jack has already become very important to him - quite apart from all the other feelings he's discovering - and he knows that there has to be some sort of discussion about what happened otherwise they might not even be able to get back to being friends. So they need to talk, and bringing up the subject of the dead sheep would get in the way of that, so he leaves it out.

I agree noReins. It just made it even sweeter for me that Ennis, who usually reacts to things he can't quite understand with aggression has this 'clearing of the air' with Jack before anything else. Like you say Jack had already become so important to him he treats him with care but is also direct. Its really special isn't it?

[shieldmaid]

Wow--I'm awed by everyone's responses.  I *knew* there were a lot of reasons why I love this scene!  The shifting of the rifle from hand to hand, the music, the fact that Ennis has to speak first, Jack's sigh--all these things both heighten the tension between them and let us know, as ellyjay said, that everything is going to be OK.  I really like your idea, too, Aimi, that this is another instance in which Ennis protects Jack.  Jack's afraid--of losing Ennis's friendship, of not having his love returned, of being rejected in a more final way--but Ennis ultimately reassures him.  I also LOVE the fact that SNIT follows immediately, without any other transition.  Just as Jack knew he had to wait for Ennis to speak first--now he has to wait for Ennis to come to him and show his love physically.

must go watch again . . . .

[TJ]

One comment here, there are times when we think something is happening the very next day; but, if you are familiar with the short story and know something about the screenplay, you will see that sometimes there are days and even weeks passing when the scene changes.

The time elapsing is not as obvious in the movie as it should be. There seems to be a few weeks between the time that Ennis opens up and has a real conversation with Jack beside the campfire and the first night in the tent together.

Sometimes in the movie, you have to look for the difference in the changes of their shirts to know that it is not the same time as it was just a few seconds before up on the screen.

[NoReins]

You're right TJ. I think there was another thread that discussed whether the SNIT occured the night after the first, or whether there was at least another day between them. Since the SNIT isn't in the short story, there's no clues there. Mind you, the short story does say that they both "knew how it would go from there. As it did go, sheep be damned" straight after their first sexual encounter - which does kind of suggest that it was pretty much every night (and during the day too) from that night on.

From that, I'm assuming that Jack goes up to see Ennis sometime in the early evening following their first night together, and that their second night together happens that night.

[edgar]

 I love the reproach from Jack after Ennis says "you know I aint queer".  "Me neither", which is said in such a way that says "well, seeing as you said that, I suppose I'd better say it too".  But it's a half-hearted attempt to convince himself as much as Ennis.
 

Jack is constantly doing this. He matches Ennis excuse for excuse, lie for lie. After Ennis tells about "the waitress" (book) or Cassie (movie); Jack returns with "rancher's wife."

[Sunflower79]

I think this scene was needed..because it was one of the first times they talked about what happend in the tent ..I think both of them were nervous about what the other was thinking and how the person would react as well..there feelings were so new at that point, both wanting to believe there could be something but unsure too..the time period dicated that what they felt and did with each other was foribideen and condemend. you weren't supposed to fall in love with someone of the same sex or even have feelings for them beyond a friendship..I think this scene was well done..they were both nervous and at the same time trying to come to terms with happend and also how they would deal with their feelings and emotions for each other and not wanting to loose this precious friendship that started to blossom between them..

[TJ]

 I love the reproach from Jack after Ennis says "you know I aint queer".  "Me neither", which is said in such a way that says "well, seeing as you said that, I suppose I'd better say it too".  But it's a half-hearted attempt to convince himself as much as Ennis.
 

Jack is constantly doing this. He matches Ennis excuse for excuse, lie for lie. After Ennis tells about "the waitress" (book) or Cassie (movie); Jack returns with "rancher's wife."

Christie and Edgar, those are both good responses. In reply to edgar, I consider the waitress and the wife to be lies, too.

Jack seemed to make himself to be equal with Ennis in many situations.

In the last movie scene together when Ennis says, "boys like you," he is one of those boys himself but refuses to admit it. In the book, Ennis says no such thing.

[LuvJackNasty]

There are a lot of great insights in this thread!
I never noticed that Ennis moves the rifle from one hand to the other.
I also never thought of it as Ennis protecting Jack either. I'm probably going to cry during this scene the next time because of all of these posts- a lot of things in here I never thought of.

[christie wood]

I also find it interesting that Ennis on his return, never mentions to Jack the dead sheep. With all the emotions that must have been bubbling inside him he doesn't use this as a tool with which to reproach Jack - 'this is the consequence of what we did'. Instead hes straight to the point with their relationship - he must have known this was all Jack was interesting in hearing about at that moment, and doesn't lay his own guilt regarding the sheep at Jack's door.

Maybe i'm reading more into this than what is there but i keep finding examples of Ennis protecting and 'looking after' Jack and it makes me appreciate his character more and more.

totally agree with your point, aimi, even though I had never thought of it before.  Dead sheep were the last thing on my mind during this scene!!  Ennis knew why Jack was there, and just had to cut to the chase, no matter how hard this was for him.  He knew Jack would have been waiting for Ennis's reaction, hoping he'd had time to think about it during the day up with the sheep.

[christie wood]

 I love the reproach from Jack after Ennis says "you know I aint queer".  "Me neither", which is said in such a way that says "well, seeing as you said that, I suppose I'd better say it too".  But it's a half-hearted attempt to convince himself as much as Ennis.
 

Jack is constantly doing this. He matches Ennis excuse for excuse, lie for lie. After Ennis tells about "the waitress" (book) or Cassie (movie); Jack returns with "rancher's wife."

Christie and Edgar, those are both good responses. In reply to edgar, I consider the waitress and the wife to be lies, too.

Jack seemed to make himself to be equal with Ennis in many situations.

In the last movie scene together when Ennis says, "boys like you," he is one of those boys himself but refuses to admit it. In the book, Ennis says no such thing.

Edgar, you are so right, Jack does mention the rancher's wife straight after Ennis talks about Cassie.  I hadn't thought of that before.

But TJ, Ennis DID have a relationship with Cassie, so that wasn't a lie.  He may have only been in it to be seen to be doing the right thing, and we know his heart wasn't in it, but he wasn't actually lying.  Jack, of course, was lying, as we know it was the rancher himself he was having an affair with, not the rancher's wife.

[christie wood]

Jack's heart must have been going ninety to the dozen when Ennis started to speak....

Oh, definitely. They've been thinking about it all day, rolling what happened over and over again in their heads... I think Jack was very aware of his feelings by this point, he knew what he wanted while Ennis was still confused and in denial. As I wrote elsewhere, I think that when he told Jack it was a one shot thing and that he wasn't queer, he was more trying to convince himself of that. And Jack looked... I can't find the words to describe what he looked like just before Ennis began to speak. he glanced at him and he looked... anxious? nervous? hopefull? I don't know. you can actually FEEL the tension in the air, this whole scene is so loaded. and I love the shot of them from behind, sitting next to each other - that's the wallpaper on my desktop... 

Oh Keren-b, you are so right.  I love your post.  There is so much in that "one shot thing" comment from Ennis - even the way he says it.  He says it in a very low, almost inaudible way.  And I do agree with you, I do think he said it to convince himself as well as Jack.  He could have said "that is never going to happen again" but he didn't.  I think Jack knew that by Ennis saying "one shot thing" he was letting Jack know that he had unexplainable feelings for Jack, but this was his way of trying to deal with them. 

Another example of Ennis's inner turmoil....totally confused by what has happened, but wanting to be with Jack.