Author Topic: What about Cassie Cartwright?  (Read 72929 times)

manhattangirl

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #90 on: Sep 21, 2007, 06:51 AM »
IMO:

It just strikes me funny in this story, that there were two type of woman that society may label as a woman of virtue, (alma) and a woman of easy virtue( Cassie) to make a subtle point.  This might be a severe look at this, and maybe even called sexist, but I wonder how much did this play in showing Ennis's slow disinterest in the women as a whole in his life, no matter who they were as people, as love interest, as someone he could live his life with.  It just didn't work.

I may not be expressing my idea clearly, but this shows to me, that no matter the kind of  people they were , Ennis's involvement emotionally, mentally, and sexually was totally in Jack.   Jack was who he was drawn to, and became part of him.

Wasn't there some kind of open, unfillable space between Ennis and the women in his life, that could never be filled.  So both woman were set adrift.   

Just a thought.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #91 on: Sep 21, 2007, 06:57 AM »
Wasn't there some kind of open, unfillable space between Ennis and the women in his life, that could never be filled.  So both woman were set adrift.   

Just a thought.

Yes, I think so.  Cassie sensed this bettwe than Alma, I think.  It was perhaps at that point, Ennis himself knew that there was a part of him would not yield to any woman.  Hence your image is wonderful!  There was no rock on which to anchor: the women in Ennis's life were indeed set adrift.


Offline lamusica

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #92 on: Sep 22, 2007, 05:04 PM »
IMO:



Wasn't there some kind of open, unfillable space between Ennis and the women in his life, that could never be filled.  So both woman were set adrift.   

Just a thought.

I like the way you expressed this, manhattan.  It is so true.  Ennis just couldn't relax enough to relate well with any woman.  Only Jack.
NB:  Ennis never started any conversatioin with Alma or Cassie.  He only answered when they directly asked him something.  That's pretty telling in itself.
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Offline welshwitch

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #93 on: Sep 23, 2007, 07:09 AM »
Other than in the honeymoon scene, Ennis doesn't really smile at Alma and his body-language when he's with her is often awkward, The same is true of the scenes with Cassie - so it can't be either of them , it must be the fact that they're both female and both not-Jack.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #94 on: Sep 24, 2007, 08:59 AM »
I had the impression that with Cassie, Ennis was being KIND.  It seemed to me that he was rather complacent -- perhaps enjoying the company, but not particularly enjoying the attention.  Loneliness gets to you this way, no?  Sometimes, we are so lonely that we don't eevn mind the company of those we dislike.


Offline lamusica

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #95 on: Sep 24, 2007, 12:26 PM »
I feel that way, too, tpe.  Ennis is not really interested in Cassie.  He goes along for the ride, but there's no feelings there that we ever see.  Maybe he wants to allay the lonliness, or maybe he wants to be seen with a woman in case anyone has any doubts about his sexuality.  But, he's surely not in love.
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Offline welshwitch

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #96 on: Sep 25, 2007, 12:53 PM »
I've wopndered whether Cassie was a sort of way for Ennis to get back at Alma and anyine else in the locality who might talk about him - not gossip about his sexuality but just casting aspersions on him as a male able to have relationships with women. Maybe she also represented an attempt to have a sensual and sexual relationship that wasn't with Jack - if it had worked it might have made his life easier.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #97 on: Sep 25, 2007, 12:59 PM »
Amen to this,ww. (:)Interested or not in her,Cassie was A WOMAN,reason strong enough to go out with her.For the same reason that he smiles almost easily when he learns that Jack has an affair with another woman;he feels relaxed because he knows his lover is "safe" having a socially well-seen relationship-no fears of reactions as with Earl and Ritch-and,why not?he´s relaxed also because he knows Jack will never be able to have a REAL relationship-loving,sexual,transcendental...-with women.Maybe does he know he won´t either?.
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2007, 01:06 PM by myprivatejack »
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #98 on: Sep 25, 2007, 03:31 PM »
Thanks lamusica, ww, and MPJ.  :)

I had wondered about something similar to what ww suggested -- that a relationship with Cassie didn't hurt, in Ennis's mind, if it somehow convinced the "others" that he was a normal kind of guy.  To a certain extent, Ennis and (especially) Jack, used their wives this way, no?  But I guess committing to Cassie would have been too much even for Ennis.  Perhaps Ennis felt that an open-ended relationship wouldn'tr hurt him as much as a marriage to Cassie would hurt Cassie more in the long run.


Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #99 on: Sep 30, 2007, 06:38 PM »
I always wondered about the role of Cassie in the movie because it stood out in such contrast to the rest of the characters, except for Monroe.

They are the only happy people that the four of them ever met and lived with. Tamlynn's analysis of both Cassie and Jack's salemanship is brilliant!  (:)

I have another explanation of Ennis' seeming disinterests in the lovely Cassie. We don't know that Ennis was not interested in Cassie sexually. He just was not very expressive by nature. Furthermore, with Jack on his mind all the time, I doubt that he had room to think about anyone else. Most of all, I think Ennis has the integrity to know that it would be unfair to Cassie to get involved, and then not being able to live up to her expectations of a normal marriage, etc. He defended Elma against Jack. He knew the lying was wrong all those years. He just didn't know what to do about it. As much as he enjoyed being with Cassie, it was not love, and he didn't want to hurt her any more. So he stopped returning her calls.

Cassie is understandably attracted to the strong silent type in Ennis. It's just that this strong silent one is quiet and brooding for a reason that she didn't understand, and would never get. Even Elma, when confronted with it on her doorstep, could not deal with it. I am just stunned that Ennis never talked with her to find out what's bothering her. In a way, Ennis made the divorce inevitable by not caring for Elma like a loving husband. Even if Elma did not see the kiss, she had every right to be upset, and leave him.

It is this tragic web of deceit that Ennis was referring to in their last meeting. Ennis wanted to do the right thing, to be a good provider for his family, to be a good husband, like he was a good cowboy. But Brokeback and Jack made all of that impossible, and he had no control over it. In his own mind, he was nothing, he lost all respect for himself. He probably thought Cassie was better off with someone else. When Cassie told him that "girls don't fall in love with fun" he woke up to the name of this thing between him and Jack. That's when he wrote the postcard to initiate the meeting in November. And the deeper tragedy was that when he was finally ready to express his love, he couldn't! And then hearing from Jack's father that Jack had wanted all these years to spend a life together, and then finding the two shirts! It was one thing to be unable to express his love to Jack, thinking Jack had already stopped loving him (like that first summer when he thought Jack was sore from the punch). It was quite another to know that for twenty years, Jack had loved him, and he didn't know, and now would never be able to return that love.

It was a long journey for one cowboy to learning the meaning of love, with many innocent people hurt along the way (Elma, Cassie, Jack, Laureen).

There is no right or wrong, no good girl, bad girl. All the characters did the best they could, but the circumstances made it impossible for a good outcome. In the end, Elma and Monroe have a happy life, and their children found love. Bobby probably will do well in Grandpa's business, and Laureen will move on with her life, in the country club, with the other wives. Even Cassie will find a man, or perhaps even love. Jack and Ennis were robbed of their chance for happiness. That was the only tragedy that really stood out in the story because there was no way to fix it, so Ennis just had to stand it, all those years of lonely vigil until their ashes can be together again on Brokeback Mountain.

I think that's what he meant when he says, at the end, "Jack I swear". It was a promise to put in his own will, that he and Jack will spend eternity together in Brokeback Mountain. I can be totally wrong, of course. But that's what I'd like to think of Ennis, the romantic devoted cowboy who seeks redemption by doing the one thing that Jack asked of him.

He wasn't living a lonely life, just a life filled with memories alone.

Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #100 on: Oct 01, 2007, 08:15 AM »
I do also think that Cassie did what she could, under the circumstances.  Looking at it from her point of view, I can understand her confusion and frustration.  If there is injustice in the movie, she certainly gets her share.  But like her, we are toys before the god, and fate frequently chooses to break us, if only to remind us of how little we are in control.




Offline welshwitch

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #101 on: Oct 01, 2007, 01:27 PM »
Like flies to wanton boys are we to the gods;
They kill us for their sport.

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #102 on: Oct 02, 2007, 01:04 AM »
I do also think that Cassie did what she could, under the circumstances.  Looking at it from her point of view, I can understand her confusion and frustration.  If there is injustice in the movie, she certainly gets her share.  But like her, we are toys before the god, and fate frequently chooses to break us, if only to remind us of how little we are in control.

I don't know if it is injustice or simply her taking risk chasing after a man with a reputation in town.

After all, she must knew about Ennis and Jack's quarterly Brokeback rendez-vous. It seems everyone else in town knew. Perhaps she was confident that her beauty and her charm would be enough to change Ennis. Isn't that what attracts many women to gay men? The hope to be the one to rescue the one who went astray? I don't know what motivated Cassie to go after Ennis that first night, with dancing and footrub. I don't know if she fell in love with Ennis after seeing how devoted he was to his girls. What ever the reasons for Cassie to extend her heart to Ennis, her suffering is also what makes love bittersweet. We take a chance to be vulnerable, and if we are lucky, we find someone who treats that heart with care. Ennis finally learned that when he saw how heartbroken Cassie was, and realized Jack may feel the same way. And knowing that, he knew he loved Jack, because he could NOT stand being the reason of that hurt. I think if Jack lived, Ennis would have proposed to move to Texas. Afterall, he hasn't seen Elma jr for a year or so. If he can find a better paying job in Texas, he could pay for his child support and be closing to Jack. I think he was ready to take the plunge. And all the more tragic when the post card was returned. I love the way Ang Lee showed only his back for most of that scene, and not his face, just like the last meeting between Jack and Ennis, when Ennis had his back turned away from Jack, but was sobbing uncontrollably.

I don't know about the short story, but introducing Cassie into the movie is brilliant!
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #103 on: Oct 03, 2007, 08:25 AM »
I don't know if it is injustice or simply her taking risk chasing after a man with a reputation in town.

After all, she must knew about Ennis and Jack's quarterly Brokeback rendez-vous. It seems everyone else in town knew. Perhaps she was confident that her beauty and her charm would be enough to change Ennis. Isn't that what attracts many women to gay men? The hope to be the one to rescue the one who went astray? I don't know what motivated Cassie to go after Ennis that first night, with dancing and footrub. I don't know if she fell in love with Ennis after seeing how devoted he was to his girls. What ever the reasons for Cassie to extend her heart to Ennis, her suffering is also what makes love bittersweet. We take a chance to be vulnerable, and if we are lucky, we find someone who treats that heart with care. Ennis finally learned that when he saw how heartbroken Cassie was, and realized Jack may feel the same way. And knowing that, he knew he loved Jack, because he could NOT stand being the reason of that hurt. I think if Jack lived, Ennis would have proposed to move to Texas. Afterall, he hasn't seen Elma jr for a year or so. If he can find a better paying job in Texas, he could pay for his child support and be closing to Jack. I think he was ready to take the plunge. And all the more tragic when the post card was returned. I love the way Ang Lee showed only his back for most of that scene, and not his face, just like the last meeting between Jack and Ennis, when Ennis had his back turned away from Jack, but was sobbing uncontrollably.

I don't know about the short story, but introducing Cassie into the movie is brilliant!


I had wondered if Ennis really had a "reputation" about town, or whether much of this was really just paranoia.  If it were the latter, then perhaps Cassie was all the more clueless.  "I don't get you, Ennis del Mar"  certainly suggests that she was at a loss when it came to Ennis.  I wonder how she would have reacted had she known better.  I think she would have reacted not in the same way as Alma...


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #104 on: Oct 04, 2007, 05:43 AM »
I think,knowing Ennis,that it was more a question of paranoia than a real "reputation" :-\\ .Yes,for Cassie´s reaction,we can suppose she didn´t know anything and,so then,didn´t understand ,didn´t get Ennis...On the other hand,I think some of us are unfair with Cassie by not liking her very much,because she´s a more key character than it can seem at first sight;IMO,she teaches Ennis what love means,no matter how you´re,and,giving him the sight for realising it,forces him somehow to give a chance to Jack and his love,by writing the last invitation card to him...The pity is that we´ll never know is this was going to be a REAL CHANGE.
« Last Edit: Oct 04, 2007, 05:55 AM by myprivatejack »
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #105 on: Oct 04, 2007, 08:12 AM »
I think,knowing Ennis,that it was more a question of paranoia than a real "reputation" :-\\ .Yes,for Cassie´s reaction,we can suppose she didn´t know anything and,so then,didn´t understand ,didn´t get Ennis...On the other hand,I think some of us are unfair with Cassie by not liking her very much,because she´s a more key character than it can seem at first sight;IMO,she teaches Ennis what love means,no matter how you´re,and,giving him the sight for realising it,forces him somehow to give a chance to Jack and his love,by writing the last invitation card to him...The pity is that we´ll never know is this was going to be a REAL CHANGE.
I'd like to think that it was a REAL CHANGE, because it seems to me that Ennis in the trailer scenes became more sensitive and open. The way he talked to Elma jr was totally different from the way he talked to her in the car, when she wanted to move in with him. He became more loving, more capable of giving. He was still the strong silent one that we love, but even his silence felt more open, like when he looked out the window, after he asked Elma if Kurt loved her, and she said yes. Instead of wallowing in self-pity of his lost love, he managed to say the right things to make Elma jr smile and turned it into an occasion for bonding. The old Ennis probably couldn't do that. The new Ennis became more of Jack. He smiled more.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #106 on: Oct 05, 2007, 09:41 AM »
The new Ennis became more of Jack.That´s right¡  :clap: They say that something of lost loved ones qualities remains inside us making us to be more similar to them...  :)  Maybe Jack was more by Ennis´side when he was gone than when he was alive;it´s a perhaps stupid characteristic of human being that makes us despise what we have and miss it when we lost it...I think this transformation in him began precisely with Cassie phrase "Girls don´t fall in love for fun",increases when he collapses in confrontation scene and reaches the top point in the famous "Jack,I swear...".It´s for this that I think it´s a good aim to include Cassie´s character,more important than it seems,IMO.
« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2007, 10:05 AM by myprivatejack »
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #107 on: Oct 05, 2007, 06:16 PM »
I think,knowing Ennis,that it was more a question of paranoia than a real "reputation" :-\\ .Yes,for Cassie´s reaction,we can suppose she didn´t know anything and,so then,didn´t understand ,didn´t get Ennis...On the other hand,I think some of us are unfair with Cassie by not liking her very much,because she´s a more key character than it can seem at first sight;IMO,she teaches Ennis what love means,no matter how you´re,and,giving him the sight for realising it,forces him somehow to give a chance to Jack and his love,by writing the last invitation card to him...The pity is that we´ll never know is this was going to be a REAL CHANGE.

I do think Cassie did reveal something to Ennis abou love -- when she said Boys dont fall in love with fun.  I guess this hit Ennis hard -- perhaps it told him that sometimes, one goes out on a limb for love.

Offline lamusica

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #108 on: Oct 05, 2007, 06:50 PM »
I, too, feel that a lot of people don't like Cassie.  I do like her.  I think she has spunk and goes after what (who) she wants with all her might.  I feel she has goals, but may never reach them if she gets mexed up with men that prevent her from going after her dream.  She really likes Ennis, and then falls in love with him.  She just doesn't have a clue about what makes him tick.  Another tragic element in the story, to my point of view.  Another person whose heart gets broken through no fault of her own.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #109 on: Oct 06, 2007, 07:54 AM »
The new Ennis became more of Jack.That´s right¡  :clap: They say that something of lost loved ones qualities remains inside us making us to be more similar to them...  :)  Maybe Jack was more by Ennis´side when he was gone than when he was alive;it´s a perhaps stupid characteristic of human being that makes us despise what we have and miss it when we lost it...I think this transformation in him began precisely with Cassie phrase "Girls don´t fall in love for fun",increases when he collapses in confrontation scene and reaches the top point in the famous "Jack,I swear...".It´s for this that I think it´s a good aim to include Cassie´s character,more important than it seems,IMO.
I think couples simply by spending so much time together naturally take on the characteristics of their partner. And the complementary nature of Ennis and Jack makes it all the more likely that they learn from each other and adapt to one another. The fact that by doing so, both become a better person, Ennis becoming more open and confident while Jack becoming more responsible and caring, is the element that, IMO, make them soul mates. Their love for each other lifts them to a high level of existence. Cassie's revelation opened Ennis' eyes to the reality of this love. If Ennis had been pretending that he and Jack were just two guys having fun, he had no such delusion after Cassie. He took responsibility for that relationship from that moment on, instead of trying to push it aside as just "a one shot deal".
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #110 on: Oct 06, 2007, 08:07 AM »
I, too, feel that a lot of people don't like Cassie.  I do like her.  I think she has spunk and goes after what (who) she wants with all her might.  I feel she has goals, but may never reach them if she gets mexed up with men that prevent her from going after her dream.  She really likes Ennis, and then falls in love with him.  She just doesn't have a clue about what makes him tick.  Another tragic element in the story, to my point of view.  Another person whose heart gets broken through no fault of her own.
I didn't like her initially because I felt she was an intrusion into Ennis' life, and relationship with Jack. Then I realized she was only following her own heart, as you said, going after what she wants with all her might. And I admire her for that. She also taught me, or rather reminded me (since I had been taught this lesson already from painful experiences in my recent past) that sometimes we can't have what we want. Even if she were to understand Ennis, as Jack did, she still wouldn't be Jack, and her love would never be returned. That unrequited love is tragic and painful, and she did what was right, by moving on. If Jack had lived and Ennis moved to the ranch in Lightning Flat, I can see Cassie becoming a happy friend of the family, seeing Ennis and Jack happy together, she would feel happy for them, and I think they will make her feel welcome, too. Jack and Ennis are kind and generous souls, not bothered by petty jealousy. Jack's death also affected Cassie indirectly through Ennis. She really loved him, and he felt that at the diner, watching her running out in tears.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lamusica

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #111 on: Oct 06, 2007, 07:32 PM »
Maybe it's the old saying: Too late too smart.  Ennis didn't realize what he could have had with Cassie until he had driven her away.  With Jack out of the picture, he had no one.  Wisdom at such a cost.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #112 on: Oct 06, 2007, 08:13 PM »
Maybe it's the old saying: Too late too smart.  Ennis didn't realize what he could have had with Cassie until he had driven her away.  With Jack out of the picture, he had no one.  Wisdom at such a cost.
I haven't heard that old saying. I guess it's kind of like hindsight is 20/20.

And I am fairly certain that Ennis doesn't want Cassie. If he did, he wouldn't be living alone in the trailer.

Ennis and Jack, from the first night, were destined to be together. That's why they kept the romance going for twenty years. Even after their last scene together, if Jack did not die, they would be together in Lightning Flat.

Cassie was the classic tragic figure of unrequited love. She loved Ennis deeply but he couldn't return the love at the same level, not like Ennis and Jack. Even if Ennis didn't drive her away (in his usual passive aggressive way, not return her messages) she would not be happy, as Elma was not happy, especially if she ever finds out about Jack.

Then again, if she could accept Jack in the relationship, things might have worked out differently. Elma hated Jack, and so Ennis was caught in the middle. Jack tried to be friendly with Elma, at the door, but Elma was too shocked from the kiss, from the betrayal to invite him in. Jack knew he wasn't welcome, and that's why he didn't come up the second time. Texans don't drink coffee? Not where they are not welcome, love. Cassie may be more open to an open relationship with Ennis, probably knew his reputation, if he had one. Too bad Ennis was too wrapped up in his own world to find a solution. :(
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #113 on: Oct 09, 2007, 10:49 AM »
Maybe it's the old saying: Too late too smart.  Ennis didn't realize what he could have had with Cassie until he had driven her away.  With Jack out of the picture, he had no one.  Wisdom at such a cost.

Are you suggesting that Cassie was a "dress-rehearsal" toEnnis's final realization of Jack's love?  A prefiguration, so to speak?

 

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #114 on: Oct 09, 2007, 10:52 AM »
***

Cassie was the classic tragic figure of unrequited love. She loved Ennis deeply but he couldn't return the love at the same level, not like Ennis and Jack. Even if Ennis didn't drive her away (in his usual passive aggressive way, not return her messages) she would not be happy, as Elma was not happy, especially if she ever finds out about Jack.

Then again, if she could accept Jack in the relationship, things might have worked out differently. Elma hated Jack, and so Ennis was caught in the middle. Jack tried to be friendly with Elma, at the door, but Elma was too shocked from the kiss, from the betrayal to invite him in. Jack knew he wasn't welcome, and that's why he didn't come up the second time. Texans don't drink coffee? Not where they are not welcome, love. Cassie may be more open to an open relationship with Ennis, probably knew his reputation, if he had one. Too bad Ennis was too wrapped up in his own world to find a solution. :(

I think Cassie would also have been unable to make a separate peace with Ennis's relationship with Jack.  In this sense, she is also the tragic "sacrifice" to love.  Sometimes, the gods punish (or reward?) us by making us love those who find it impossible to love us.

 
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2007, 07:42 AM by tpe »

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #115 on: Oct 10, 2007, 02:10 AM »
I think Cassie would also have been unable to make a separate peace with Ennis's relationship with Jack.  In this sense, she is also the tragic "sacrifice" to love.  Sometimes, the gods punish (or reward?) us by making us love those who find it impossible to love us.

Cupid's arrows land indiscriminately. That has been since ancient times. How we deal with the cruel fates is up to us, and I think Cassie loves Ennis so much and is generous enough that she would not mind the adorable Jack in their marriage. It is hard to say what Cassie would do, not knowing her character better. Perhaps others with more knowledge from the script writers may know.

I don't think she sacrificed anything because she never had Jack to begin with. If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, it is yours. If it doesn't, it never was.

Cassie tried to have Ennis. It didn't work out. She was wise and smart enough to let it go, walk away. It still hurt like a s@#)$ but it was the right thing to do. Staying in a relationship without love (reciprocated love) is worse than unrequited love. I can't imagine Cassie doing the silly thing when she can surely find someone who loves her, as Elma did.
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2007, 07:41 AM by tpe »
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #116 on: Oct 10, 2007, 07:43 AM »
Cupid's arrows land indiscriminately. That has been since ancient times. How we deal with the cruel fates is up to us, and I think Cassie loves Ennis so much and is generous enough that she would not mind the adorable Jack in their marriage. It is hard to say what Cassie would do, not knowing her character better. Perhaps others with more knowledge from the script writers may know.

I don't think she sacrificed anything because she never had Jack to begin with. If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, it is yours. If it doesn't, it never was.

Cassie tried to have Ennis. It didn't work out. She was wise and smart enough to let it go, walk away. It still hurt like a s@#)$ but it was the right thing to do. Staying in a relationship without love (reciprocated love) is worse than unrequited love. I can't imagine Cassie doing the silly thing when she can surely find someone who loves her, as Elma did.


This is an interesting thought, and it indeed happens in real life.  Among people I know, I know of two such arrangements.  Both of them seem to work -- for now, at least.  Isn't life interesting?


I think she was a sacrifice more to the futility of love -- of unrequited love.  She didn't have to know Jack to feel that Ennis would not love her the way she loved him.

« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2007, 08:43 AM by tpe »

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #117 on: Oct 10, 2007, 08:36 AM »
This is an interesting thought, and it indeed happens in real life.  Among people I know, I know of two such arrangements.  Both of them seem to work -- for now, at least.  Isn't life interesting?

I think she was a sacrifice more to the futility of love -- of unrequited love.  She didn't have to know Jack to feel that Ennis would not love her the way she loved him.
I think you caught my typo in my haste I wrote Jack when I meant Ennis. Cassie never had Ennis, even though she loved him. If Ennis and Jack got back together, and they met with Cassie after she persists with her messages, I have no doubt that, given the time and circumstance, they would find that Ennis marrying Cassie, and moving in with Jack and his folks, building themselves a big cabin, would work for everyone's benefits. Cassie may still feel pained that her love for Ennis is stronger than his love for her. But I think Ennis, in his usual loving way, will grow as a person with Jack being there, will open up and learn to love her more than he could by himself. It all depends on the dynamics between Jack and Cassie. As far as Ennis is concerned, he would be happy as can be to be loved by two people, both a lot of fun to be with.

I am not an advocate of open relationships as a general rule because they require a lot more work than close and committed ones. In this case, with the level of honesty and integrity, and most of all, the love in these three people, and with the dynamics in the two pairs that we know of (Ennis-Cassie, and Ennis+Jack), I think this will work.
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2007, 08:43 AM by tpe »
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #118 on: Oct 10, 2007, 08:47 AM »
I think you caught my typo in my haste I wrote Jack when I meant Ennis. Cassie never had Ennis, even though she loved him. If Ennis and Jack got back together, and they met with Cassie after she persists with her messages, I have no doubt that, given the time and circumstance, they would find that Ennis marrying Cassie, and moving in with Jack and his folks, building themselves a big cabin, would work for everyone's benefits. Cassie may still feel pained that her love for Ennis is stronger than his love for her. But I think Ennis, in his usual loving way, will grow as a person with Jack being there, will open up and learn to love her more than he could by himself. It all depends on the dynamics between Jack and Cassie. As far as Ennis is concerned, he would be happy as can be to be loved by two people, both a lot of fun to be with.

I am not an advocate of open relationships as a general rule because they require a lot more work than close and committed ones. In this case, with the level of honesty and integrity, and most of all, the love in these three people, and with the dynamics in the two pairs that we know of (Ennis-Cassie, and Ennis+Jack), I think this will work.

The question arises then: did Cassie love Ennis enough to contemplate such an arrangement?  She didn't know, of course, and it might have made a difference.  Times were changing then, but I don't know if Cassie would have contemplated open relationships like this...  Interesting thing to think about. 

 

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What about Cassie Cartwright?
« Reply #119 on: Oct 10, 2007, 11:13 AM »
As I´m getting older,the most I think we always put too many restrictions in love affairs due to social conventions and that this wouldn´t happen in the only kind of feelings we can arrange,dominate or justify...Nevertheless,we´re a product of our circumstances,even today this has a great importance,so,imagine what could happen in a rural environment in first 80´s¡.Texas chain massacre would be a children´s game¡.OMG¡.Moreover,for me Alma and Cassie are the two sides of the same coin,it´s to say,at the end they only looked for a husband who support themselves economically while living a conventional marriage,not sharing Ennis with another woman and less still with a man...The only difference between them was the way of looking for this life and showing they was looking for it.IMO.
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2007, 11:24 AM by myprivatejack »
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.