Topic: Jack: "...If you don't never know the rest"

[tpe]

Jack is accusing Ennis because of failing their love and he tell that Ennis will never know what could mean to live a love in reality and not only in some rare occasions in the mountains.

Thanks coguaro.  This is true.  It hits very close to the heart of it all.

 

[keren_b]

I also think, like others have said before me, that "the rest" is not just one spesific thing but a number of things. The way I understand it, Jack is saying "I hope you know that" - that all we have is Brokeback mountain and we have nothing beyond that, because you wouldn't commit to our love and you wouldn't come and live with me, so I hope you know that this situation is your fault, "if you don't never know the rest" - if you never know how much I love you, how much I need you, if you never know how much I miss you and how much it hurts, and how bad it gets, to the point that I seek relief in the arms of other men just because I can't be with you... There are a lot of things that Ennis doesn't know or realise until it's too late.

[MississaugaRed]

I also think, like others have said before me, that "the rest" is not just one specific thing but a number of things.  .. snip ... There are a lot of things that Ennis doesn't know or realise until it's too late.

Keren, so true, everything that has been said here.  This one is very powerful, can't even begin to "sum up" the feelings that line of Jack's evokes; you've managed to articulate many of them ...  the turmoil inside Jack as he said this must have been incredibly painful to bear ... or to give voice to ...  :'(

[ethan]

So many great thought. Thank you.

The rest - one little words with abundance of emotions as keren_b pointed out. We really have no idea how bad it gets inside Jack's heart when he said that to Ennis.

[edgar]

I also think, like others have said before me, that "the rest" is not just one spesific thing but a number of things. The way I understand it, Jack is saying "I hope you know that" - that all we have is Brokeback mountain and we have nothing beyond that, because you wouldn't commit to our love and you wouldn't come and live with me, so I hope you know that this situation is your fault, "if you don't never know the rest" - if you never know how much I love you, how much I need you, if you never know how much I miss you and how much it hurts, and how bad it gets, to the point that I seek relief in the arms of other men just because I can't be with you... There are a lot of things that Ennis doesn't know or realise until it's too late.

Yes. Your post links the love, the pain, and the other men. That's it. :'(

[welshwitch]

I thought " the rest" referred to Jack's feelings suffered - that he sensed that Ennis didn't fell as/as deeply as he did and given that there was no way he could ever see himslef getting through to Ennis and Ennis changing, it was as well if Ennis never came to experience the misery Jack had suffered. In other words I see the line as a manifestation of Jack's love. In the ss it's c;ear that Jack realises after this that nothing can or will change- that's followed by "Let be, let be." So I see him as hoping that Ennis will at least be spared the agonising realisation of what he's lost; the irony is, of course, that Ennis does realise it, but too late.

[NoReins]

I also think, like others have said before me, that "the rest" is not just one spesific thing but a number of things. The way I understand it, Jack is saying "I hope you know that" - that all we have is Brokeback mountain and we have nothing beyond that, because you wouldn't commit to our love and you wouldn't come and live with me, so I hope you know that this situation is your fault, "if you don't never know the rest" - if you never know how much I love you, how much I need you, if you never know how much I miss you and how much it hurts, and how bad it gets, to the point that I seek relief in the arms of other men just because I can't be with you... There are a lot of things that Ennis doesn't know or realise until it's too late.

Jesus Keren - that's so beautifully put. You've got me choking up again :'( This bit...

if you never know how much I love you, how much I need you, if you never know how much I miss you and how much it hurts, and how bad it gets, to the point that I seek relief in the arms of other men just because I can't be with you... There are a lot of things that Ennis doesn't know or realise until it's too late

...is especially well said, and I totally agree with your take on it. And now I'll stop typing 'cos your words are a million times better than any I could use.

[LuvJackNasty]

 I read this at lunchtime-yet another day of crying at my desk!  :'(
The rest is so many things to me- much of which has already been expressed so beautifully by everyone here.

The rest is the missed opportunities and a love squandered due to Ennis' fear and reluctance to accept the truth about himself and ultimately their relationship.
I can only imagine that each time Jack's suggestions were rebuffed that it killed Jack a little more each time and that it was like being hit with a tire iron emotionally.

The rest is the love Jack has for Ennis and him being fed up with only feeling truly alive when Ennis sees fit. Jack put his hopes and dreams on the backburner for 20 years. He is not able to express what is truly in his heart for fear that he would scare Ennis off. The sacrifices and concessions that Jack has made over the years to keep the relationship going. That Jack would have given up everything for a life with Ennis

The rest is that Ennis will only be with Jack hidden away- Jack feeling Ennis is ashamed of him and the truth about what he represents in his life.

"What we got now is BBM"- all we have is what could have been- everything is built on trying to recapture that perfect summer of 1963. The rest: "I've been doing everything in my power to keep that alive and you've thrown up roadblocks every step of the way. But no matter how many times you've rejected me, I could never stop loving you." "But you didn't want it Ennis"- You didn't want to accept the truth. You didn't want it to be me."

Ennis could no longer deny "the rest" when he found those shirts.   

[karen1129]

I read this at lunchtime-yet another day of crying at my desk!  :'(
The rest is so many things to me- much of which has already been expressed so beautifully by everyone here.

The rest is the missed opportunities and a love squandered due to Ennis' fear and reluctance to accept the truth about himself and ultimately their relationship.
I can only imagine that each time Jack's suggestions were rebuffed that it killed Jack a little more each time and that it was like being hit with a tire iron emotionally.

The rest is the love Jack has for Ennis and him being fed up with only feeling truly alive when Ennis sees fit. Jack put his hopes and dreams on the backburner for 20 years. He is not able to express what is truly in his heart for fear that he would scare Ennis off. The sacrifices and concessions that Jack has made over the years to keep the relationship going. That Jack would have given up everything for a life with Ennis

The rest is that Ennis will only be with Jack hidden away- Jack feeling Ennis is ashamed of him and the truth about what he represents in his life.

"What we got now is BBM"- all we have is what could have been- everything is built on trying to recapture that perfect summer of 1963. The rest: "I've been doing everything in my power to keep that alive and you've thrown up roadblocks every step of the way. But no matter how many times you've rejected me, I could never stop loving you." "But you didn't want it Ennis"- You didn't want to accept the truth. You didn't want it to be me."

Ennis could no longer deny "the rest" when he found those shirts.   

Amen.  Very well put !  Can you imagine how Jack felt each time Ennis put up roadblocks? 
Poor Ennis...."you know I ain't queer".  It was this "thing". Denial denial, denial.
I don't know if I could have hung in for 20 years ! 
God, I love these two characters !!
 

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Ennis could no longer deny "the rest" when he found those shirts.   

I was ok until this statement :'( :'( :'(

[Kemmer]

[quoteThe rest is the love Jack has for Ennis and him being fed up with only feeling truly alive when Ennis sees fit. Jack put his hopes and dreams on the backburner for 20 years. He is not able to express what is truly in his heart for fear that he would scare Ennis off. The sacrifices and concessions that Jack has made over the years to keep the relationship going. That Jack would have given up everything for a life with Ennis

Even though it's not in the original story, when Ennis, sobbing, tells Jack, "It's because a you Jack that I'm like this; I'm  nobody, nowhere!" , I can see in Ennis' convoluted/cramped vision of their relationship, that he's lived life on the edge ever since the first reunion.  Ennis has taken only fleeting and temporary, low-paying jobs which he could quit or take off at a moment's notice whenever an opportunity to be with Jack appeared.  He moved willingly into Riverton, into an apartment, so he could leave anytime; something he couldn't do on a ranch, leaving only Alma and the girls.  It seems to me Ennis sacrificed any and all financial security just to be ready to be with Jack on the Mountain.  Perhaps Ennis' way of showing "love" for Jack was clumsy and tunnel-visioned, but his utter devotion to Jack seems apparent to me.  The tragedy of the entire relationship was Ennis' deathly fear of being discovered, and his fear of relocating somewhere else out of Wyoming,  something Jack didn't care about overmuch.  The two dear, tragic men were never able to reconcile themselves to any sort of happy medium for a fulfilling life together.

[ethan]

LuvJackNasty, you took the words of my mouth. Well said.

I think "the rest" has sparked many questions as we try to understand the relationship between Jack and Ennis.

Did Jack finally give up on Ennis?
Keeper of Fire

There is no doubt - love is there. Ennis - the island of the sea. For Jack, he has been floating in the sea alone. He saw an island not far away for him to land. He thought he is getting closer and closer each time to the island but only to know there is stiill some distance.

[LuvJackNasty]

There is no doubt - love is there. Ennis - the island of the sea. For Jack, he has been floating in the sea alone. He saw an island not far away for him to land. He thought he is getting closer and closer each time to the island but only to know there is stiill some distance.

 :'(

[stacp]

Keren b, LuvJackNasty, those were moving, wonderful posts.  Thank you.   :'(

[MississaugaRed]

[quoteThe rest is the love Jack has for Ennis and him being fed up with only feeling truly alive when Ennis sees fit. Jack put his hopes and dreams on the backburner for 20 years. He is not able to express what is truly in his heart for fear that he would scare Ennis off. The sacrifices and concessions that Jack has made over the years to keep the relationship going. That Jack would have given up everything for a life with Ennis

Even though it's not in the original story, when Ennis, sobbing, tells Jack, "It's because a you Jack that I'm like this; I'm  nobody, nowhere!" , I can see in Ennis' convoluted/cramped vision of their relationship, that he's lived life on the edge ever since the first reunion.   Ennis has taken only fleeting and temporary, low-paying jobs which he could quit or take off at a moment's notice whenever an opportunity to be with Jack appeared.  He moved willingly into Riverton, into an apartment, so he could leave anytime; something he couldn't do on a ranch, leaving only Alma and the girls.  It seems to me Ennis sacrificed any and all financial security just to be ready to be with Jack on the Mountain.  Perhaps Ennis' way of showing "love" for Jack was clumsy and tunnel-visioned, but his utter devotion to Jack seems apparent to me.  The tragedy of the entire relationship was Ennis' deathly fear of being discovered, and his fear of relocating somewhere else out of Wyoming,  something Jack didn't care about overmuch.  The two dear, tragic men were never able to reconcile themselves to any sort of happy medium for a fulfilling life together.

Kemmer, what a beautiful way to sum up Ennis's plea for Jack to understand what he's sacrificed to keep any kind of relationship between them alive all these years, however painful the process.  Until this particular moment, I would have wondered if Ennis had had any self-awareness about the path their choices had put them on.  This one line shows that he was capable of self-reflection and although may have acted often on instinct as much as reason, part of him knew the cost of all he had done - or not done.

I hear this line, though, and I often think that Jack could have said the exact same thing back to Ennis.  "It's because of you, Ennis, that I'm like this ..".  i.e., as LJN said - hopes and dreams on the back burner for 20 years. Maybe Jack's "never know the rest" is his version of the same cry that Ennis makes at the end.

LJN, Lindsay, Karen, Ethan et al ... all your posts have made me  :'(     :'(... again!  Very emotional thread, isn't it?

[ethan]

"It's because of you, Ennis, that I'm like this ..".  i.e., as LJN said - hopes and dreams on the back burner for 20 years. Maybe Jack's "never know the rest" is his version of the same cry that Ennis makes at the end.

Great point. Unlike Ennis, Jack's love to Ennis is unconditional. I don't think Jack would say something like "It's because of you, Ennis, that I'm like this" Jack understood Ennis so well as he was meant for Ennis.

LJN, Lindsay, Karen, Ethan et al ... all your posts have made me  :'(     :'(... again!  Very emotional thread, isn't it?

Yes thank you very much for many great thoughts. "The rest" is the love story between Ennis and Jack. It is emotional so is the thread.

[tpe]

So emotional I begin to fear reading it too much.

Thanks, all.

[LuvJackNasty]

Even though it's not in the original story, when Ennis, sobbing, tells Jack, "It's because a you Jack that I'm like this; I'm  nobody, nowhere!" , I can see in Ennis' convoluted/cramped vision of their relationship, that he's lived life on the edge ever since the first reunion.   Ennis has taken only fleeting and temporary, low-paying jobs which he could quit or take off at a moment's notice whenever an opportunity to be with Jack appeared.  He moved willingly into Riverton, into an apartment, so he could leave anytime; something he couldn't do on a ranch, leaving only Alma and the girls.  It seems to me Ennis sacrificed any and all financial security just to be ready to be with Jack on the Mountain.  Perhaps Ennis' way of showing "love" for Jack was clumsy and tunnel-visioned, but his utter devotion to Jack seems apparent to me.  The tragedy of the entire relationship was Ennis' deathly fear of being discovered, and his fear of relocating somewhere else out of Wyoming,  something Jack didn't care about overmuch.  The two dear, tragic men were never able to reconcile themselves to any sort of happy medium for a fulfilling life together.

Kemmer, what a beautiful way to sum up Ennis's plea for Jack to understand what he's sacrificed to keep any kind of relationship between them alive all these years, however painful the process.  Until this particular moment, I would have wondered if Ennis had had any self-awareness about the path their choices had put them on.  This one line shows that he was capable of self-reflection and although may have acted often on instinct as much as reason, part of him knew the cost of all he had done - or not done.

I hear this line, though, and I often think that Jack could have said the exact same thing back to Ennis.  "It's because of you, Ennis, that I'm like this ..".  i.e., as LJN said - hopes and dreams on the back burner for 20 years. Maybe Jack's "never know the rest" is his version of the same cry that Ennis makes at the end.

LJN, Lindsay, Karen, Ethan et al ... all your posts have made me  :'(     :'(... again!  Very emotional thread, isn't it?

Well put Kemmer and Miss-Red- Neither of them knew the rest and that is what compounds the tragedy.

[Kemmer]

Even though it's not in the original story, when Ennis, sobbing, tells Jack, "It's because a you Jack that I'm like this; I'm  nobody, nowhere!" , I can see in Ennis' convoluted/cramped vision of their relationship, that he's lived life on the edge ever since the first reunion.   Ennis has taken only fleeting and temporary, low-paying jobs which he could quit or take off at a moment's notice whenever an opportunity to be with Jack appeared.  He moved willingly into Riverton, into an apartment, so he could leave anytime; something he couldn't do on a ranch, leaving only Alma and the girls.  It seems to me Ennis sacrificed any and all financial security just to be ready to be with Jack on the Mountain.  Perhaps Ennis' way of showing "love" for Jack was clumsy and tunnel-visioned, but his utter devotion to Jack seems apparent to me.  The tragedy of the entire relationship was Ennis' deathly fear of being discovered, and his fear of relocating somewhere else out of Wyoming,  something Jack didn't care about overmuch.  The two dear, tragic men were never able to reconcile themselves to any sort of happy medium for a fulfilling life together.

Kemmer, what a beautiful way to sum up Ennis's plea for Jack to understand what he's sacrificed to keep any kind of relationship between them alive all these years, however painful the process.  Until this particular moment, I would have wondered if Ennis had had any self-awareness about the path their choices had put them on.  This one line shows that he was capable of self-reflection and although may have acted often on instinct as much as reason, part of him knew the cost of all he had done - or not done.

I hear this line, though, and I often think that Jack could have said the exact same thing back to Ennis.  "It's because of you, Ennis, that I'm like this ..".  i.e., as LJN said - hopes and dreams on the back burner for 20 years. Maybe Jack's "never know the rest" is his version of the same cry that Ennis makes at the end.

LJN, Lindsay, Karen, Ethan et al ... all your posts have made me  :'(     :'(... again!  Very emotional thread, isn't it?

Well put Kemmer and Miss-Red- Neither of them knew the rest and that is what compounds the tragedy.

It's heartbreaking to think how differently things might have tirned out for Jack and Ennis if they had met in 1993.  But I supposed that would only would have opened up many other cans of worms. 

 :-\I withdraw my speculation.

[Valandil Eluch]

Guys this is going to kill me all this comments breaks my heart in pieces!

[tpe]

Guys this is going to kill me all this comments breaks my heart in pieces!

This is why I attempt to read this thread cautiously nowadays...

And yet...and yet...we hopelessly read on...we ever so hopelessly read on...

[ethan]

And yet...and yet...we hopelessly read on...we ever so hopelessly read on...

Hopelessly yet satisfactorily. We wanna know "the rest"

[Valandil Eluch]

And yet...and yet...we hopelessly read on...we ever so hopelessly read on...

Hopelessly yet satisfactorily. We wanna know "the rest"

so true we wanna know the rest

[Valandil Eluch]

kinda ot but in the short story it says that Ennis said something that only the horses heard after that so i'm also wondering what could that have being

[Rønnaug]

The rest immediatly made me think of the shirts

[Kemmer]

And yet...and yet...we hopelessly read on...we ever so hopelessly read on...

Hopelessly yet satisfactorily. We wanna know "the rest"

 

Not only "the rest", but the hearts and souls and minds of the two simple, tragic men who have brought such wonder, pathos, grief, and soaring hope into our lives.  :'(

[BBBOY]

And yet...and yet...we hopelessly read on...we ever so hopelessly read on...

Hopelessly yet satisfactorily. We wanna know "the rest"

 

Not only "the rest", but the hearts and souls and minds of the two simple, tragic men who have brought such wonder, pathos, grief, and soaring hope into our lives.  :'(

Yes, that is it, hope. Their pain and tragedy gives us hope. That is the message of the story and the movie and I don't think they even knew it. Brokeback Mountain is a slap in the face, a wake up call for all of us. Love isn't something to be played with. It's not a toy, some stupid moment of lust to be followed by years of shallow acceptence and ultimately regret. I saw the target and failed to hit the bull's eye. Not a pretty picture but I will keep shooting and hope I have learned from this experience.

[Kemmer]

And yet...and yet...we hopelessly read on...we ever so hopelessly read on...

Hopelessly yet satisfactorily. We wanna know "the rest"

 

Not only "the rest", but the hearts and souls and minds of the two simple, tragic men who have brought such wonder, pathos, grief, and soaring hope into our lives.  :'(

Yes, that is it, hope. Their pain and tragedy gives us hope. That is the message of the story and the movie and I don't think they even knew it. Brokeback Mountain is a slap in the face, a wake up call for all of us. Love isn't something to be played with. It's not a toy, some stupid moment of lust to be followed by years of shallow acceptence and ultimately regret. I saw the target and failed to hit the bull's eye. Not a pretty picture but I will keep shooting and hope I have learned from this experience.

Beautiful thoughts, BBBoy.  Thank you.

[edgar]

kinda ot but in the short story it says that Ennis said something that only the horses heard after that so i'm also wondering what could that have being

Sorry to say, it was probably some cursing Jack using homophobic language from Ennis's past.

Jack has hit a nerve in Ennis with the satement "We coulda had a real good life," and Ennis, feeling pain, just wants to strike out and cause pain. At least he said it quietly to the horses; he has some self-control. Jack is at his wit's end.

[Patriot1]

Jack has hit a nerve in Ennis with the satement "We coulda had a real good life," and Ennis, feeling pain, just wants to strike out and cause pain. At least he said it quietly to the horses; he has some self-control. Jack is at his wit's end.

But I am sure you have noticed his self-control is limited to Jack. 

Instead of walking over to the horses and saying something nobody can hear, he says it as he turns his back to Jack.  He says, "G*d damn.........(something)