Topic: First Night In Tent

[Rønnaug]

The pause you mention, NoReins, and the way Jack is looking at Ennis,is (imo) Jack daring Ennis to move his hand away. When he doesn't (well, who would?! ), Jack sees it as the 'green light' to go ahead        

THAT CrimsonSky was the way I was searching to say it I so agree

[Rønnaug]

Ok just watched it again and noticed something... (never gonna get to bed this way ) Not only does Ennis flip jack around, but Jack DOESN'T pull his pants down, he unbuckles and opens the button but when we see Ennis flippning him around Jack just lies there waiting.... and Ennis has t pull Jakcs pants down as well as his own...

If Ennis in ANY way at that point didn't want this....

OK, gonna have to look again, I also just noticed Jacks hand when he pulls Ennis' onto himself in the beginning there.

[LuvJackNasty]

Has any scene  ( about 30 seconds at that) in  the history of film been analyzed as much as FNIT? :o

LOL. Reading through these posts I see I have a date with the boys in a little while. 

[CrimsonSky]

Thinking about this I am getting to the point where I think Jack wanted Ennis to take the lead... Jack initiated it and was grascious enough to stop and wait... he holds Ennis face and looks like he wants to kiss him, but Ennis does hold Jacks head to. And wanting to kiss the guy IMO is pretty different from putting his hand on your c*ck...

I think he wanted Ennis to be slightly more comfortable ...wrong word... feel less picked up and like a woman ...really stupid way of putting it but can't figure out what is the best way to say what I mean..... but I think he deliberatly waited to see what Ennis would do, and when Ennis didn't punch his lights out he made another step forward...unbuckling his belt (btw THE most sexy thing) and then letting Ennis take over. Not so sure Ennis would have agreed to be...recieving the first time, that might have truly been a one shot thing then.

I know exactly what you mean, and it kind of sums up their whole relationship really: Jack making the moves and doing all the running, but Ennis is ultimately the one in control
Or maybe Jack just wanted Ennis to give him a **** good seeing to!(and who can blame him?) :o   :-[

[Rønnaug]

I know exactly what you mean, and it kind of sums up their whole relationship really: Jack making the moves and doing all the running, but Ennis is ultimately the one in control

yes, in that regard I think Jack is like so many of us

But this is a very VERY good point, it kinda foreshaddows the entire relationship don't it... the only time Ennis looses that control is when he finds the shirts, and then mayby he wasn't so in control anyway

I love this scene more and more

[karen1129]

Ok just watched it again and noticed something... (never gonna get to bed this way ) Not only does Ennis flip jack around, but Jack DOESN'T pull his pants down, he unbuckles and opens the button but when we see Ennis flippning him around Jack just lies there waiting.... and Ennis has t pull Jakcs pants down as well as his own...

If Ennis in ANY way at that point didn't want this....

OK, gonna have to look again, I also just noticed Jacks hand when he pulls Ennis' onto himself in the beginning there.

Oh Ennis wanted it all right.  He pulled Jack's pants down, then his in about 2 seconds ! 
Someone sent me the Academy Award Screener back in February.  I'm still finding new things
regarding this scene.  Got the DVD on April 4th, and I've watched it 100 times.
When I finally got headphones and used them on FNIT..... OMG.......  when I heard Jack whimpering
as soon as he is on his knees, I almost passed out !!!  If you haven't noticed that yet, get headphones,
and hold on for dear life !!!
I am sooooo  sick !!!  I mean, I haven't done housework in so long !

[shieldmaid]

i've always thought that Jack puts Ennis's hand on his crotch, but I did notice that, as others have said, that his hand didn't seem to be in quite the right place, but I put that down to Jake, when they were filming it, thinking that it was near enough to give the impression Ennis's hand was on Jack's crotch (and, in fairness to him, he can't have imagined that people would be analysing it in such minute detail! :-[ :-[ :-[)

But, I've just watched it again, and seen it completely different this time: Jack doesn't take Ennis's hand, Ennis's hand is already on Jack's lower arm as a result of their struggle. All Jack does is pull his arm back, with Ennis's hand on it, then (I'm guessing here, cause you can't actually see), places his arm so that it's directly between his groin and Ennis's hand,and starts to pull his arm away. The pause you mention, NoReins, and the way Jack is looking at Ennis,is (imo) Jack daring Ennis to move his hand away. When he doesn't (well, who would?! ), Jack sees it as the 'green light' to go ahead At that point, Jack pulls his arm away and atarts taking off his jacket, and you see Ennis's arm sort of drop(and his hand presumably landing in Jack's lap! ), as a result of Jack pulling his arm away.       

Wow--this is quite an impressive blow-by-blow.    Thanks for parsing it out for us.  I will have to rewatch this on slow-motion, with headphones on.  Did someone mention housework?  It's *not* getting done this week!

[karen1129]

OMG, if you haven't listened to FNIT with headphones, you are in for a treat !
I picked up a cheap pair at Best Buy.  Best investment I ever made !
Keep a cool cloth and fan close by though !

[Rønnaug]

Did someone mention housework?  It's *not* getting done this week!

This week? lol

Yes, headphones is a must and particularly in these... intimate times

[NoReins]

Well, this discussion has certainly got hotter in the last day

CrimsonSky - I think you're right about the pause and the look being Jack daring Ennis to move his hand. It's almost as though he takes one step (hand on crotch), waits for a reaction, then takes another (jacket off) and waits again, then another (that whole belt unbuckled with one hand thing that I hate to think about ) before Ennis takes control - like Jack doesn't want to move too fast in case Ennis doesn't want to go there.

Hmmm. I wonder how I can explain watching that scene with headphones to my boyfriend? I've got these great inner ear ones that allow you to hear sound really clearly too....

[CrimsonSky]

Wow--this is quite an impressive blow-by-blow. 

 
Don't know if that's an intentional pun or not, but lol anyway

 

Thanks for parsing it out for us.  I will have to rewatch this on slow-motion, with headphones on.  Did someone mention housework?  It's *not* getting done this week!

No need to thank me Of course, I hated having to watch it all again, and in slow motion too, but NoReins asked the question and I felt I should try to help out But that's me, selfless to a fault

My telly doesn't do headphones so I can only listen to it properly on the PC, but that means I can't alter the brightness to make the picture clearer, so it's either full sound and dark screen, or light screen but normal sound for me Might be time to invest in a new telly

[NoReins]

Of course, I hated having to watch it all again, and in slow motion too, but NoReins asked the question and I felt I should try to help out But that's me, selfless to a fault

Your sacrifice is greatly appreciated

[keren_b]

Thanks, Esme; I agree with you.  Someone mentioned the possibility that Jack intended to be "on top" elsewhere, but I haven't been able to see it when watching the film myself.  Linked to the short story, I guess: "Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending." 

See, here is where my English fails me. I never understood the meaning of that line. In Hebrew it was translated literaly and it made no sense, I always felt there was another meaning to it but couldn't tell what. Any of you decent people care to help? 

[CrimsonSky]

Of course, I hated having to watch it all again, and in slow motion too, but NoReins asked the question and I felt I should try to help out But that's me, selfless to a fault

Your sacrifice is greatly appreciated

Just as I appreciate the sacrifices of everyone else on here, pointing out all the little details of every scene, and offering different viewpoints It's fascinating to discover so many new aspects to the movie, and it's good to know I'm not the only one who's so obssessed about it

Btw, I hadn't noticed Jack pulling Ennis onto him with his right hand until it was mentioned further up in the thread, so thanks to everyone for the POV on that For what it's worth, I think Jack wanted Ennis to be on top that night, I don't have any evidence to support it, just my gut feeling

[NoReins]

Btw, I hadn't noticed Jack pulling Ennis onto him with his right hand until it was mentioned further up in the thread, so thanks to everyone for the POV on that For what it's worth, I think Jack wanted Ennis to be on top that night, I don't have any evidence to support it, just my gut feeling

I actually hadn't noticed that myself - too mesmerised by the old single handed belt unbuckling thing May need to try to keep calm through that bit on my next viewing

Without wishing to be too crude, perhaps Jack knew that it would be too painful for Ennis if it was any other way that first night. I think we're mostly in agreement that it wasn't Jack's first time, but Annie Proulx clearly states that Ennis hadn't done it before. Jack didn't want to do anything that might cause Ennis to back off and hurting him physically would presumably do that, at least up until the point (SNIT) where Ennis comes to Jack voluntarily.

[NoReins]

Thanks, Esme; I agree with you.  Someone mentioned the possibility that Jack intended to be "on top" elsewhere, but I haven't been able to see it when watching the film myself.  Linked to the short story, I guess: "Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending." 

See, here is where my English fails me. I never understood the meaning of that line. In Hebrew it was translated literaly and it made no sense, I always felt there was another meaning to it but couldn't tell what. Any of you decent people care to help? 

Keren, I have always understood this bit to mean that everything Ennis did, he did 100%, never allowing someone else to be in charge of a situation that involved him. So, while Jack initiates their sexual encounter, as soon as Ennis realises (or decides) what is going to happen, he wants to be in control and not to just lie there and let Jack do whatever he wants.

Just my 2p worth, though.

[shieldmaid]

Thanks, Esme; I agree with you.  Someone mentioned the possibility that Jack intended to be "on top" elsewhere, but I haven't been able to see it when watching the film myself.  Linked to the short story, I guess: "Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending." 

See, here is where my English fails me. I never understood the meaning of that line. In Hebrew it was translated literaly and it made no sense, I always felt there was another meaning to it but couldn't tell what. Any of you decent people care to help? 

Keren, I have always understood this bit to mean that everything Ennis did, he did 100%, never allowing someone else to be in charge of a situation that involved him. So, while Jack initiates their sexual encounter, as soon as Ennis realises (or decides) what is going to happen, he wants to be in control and not to just lie there and let Jack do whatever he wants.

Just my 2p worth, though.

Yes, that's exactly what I think, too.  In the short story, too, Proulx makes it clear that Ennis didn't want his hand on Jack's crotch--but that he immediately flips him over and goes to town (so to speak ).  There's no hesitation, grappling, or struggle in the story, just immediate consummation.  Oh my!  Must return to the DVD--back shortly. 

[edgar]

Thanks, Esme; I agree with you.  Someone mentioned the possibility that Jack intended to be "on top" elsewhere, but I haven't been able to see it when watching the film myself.  Linked to the short story, I guess: "Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending." 

See, here is where my English fails me. I never understood the meaning of that line. In Hebrew it was translated literaly and it made no sense, I always felt there was another meaning to it but couldn't tell what. Any of you decent people care to help? 

Assuming that you know that "full-throttle" means "very fast; engine firing rapidly and strongly," we can just pass over the two examples of fence mending and money spending as incidental.

Now, umm, about the FNIT. Jack's placing Ennis's had on his [Jack's] erection might indicate that all Jack dared hope for this first night was a little playing around, maybe mutual masturbation or some other bumping and grinding, perhaps leading to orgasm. Maybe even something more, but not full-scale an*l intercourse.

Ennis, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

[Patriot1]

Jack, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

Well, just from the sound track a blind man can tell that he got it all!!   :o :o   

[NoReins]

Jack, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

I presume you mean Ennis here, edgar?

[karen1129]

Jack, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

Well, just from the sound track a blind man can tell that he got it all!!   :o :o   

Ain't that the trutch ! :D  It's almost better listeneing to it than seeing it !

[Patriot1]

Jack, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

Well, just from the sound track a blind man can tell that he got it all!!   :o :o   

Ain't that the trutch ! :D  It's almost better listeneing to it than seeing it !

There really isn't anything to see.  Be honest Karen, NOT watching, just listening, can't you imagine a lot more than you can see?

[karen1129]

Jack, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

Well, just from the sound track a blind man can tell that he got it all!!   :o :o   

Ain't that the trutch ! :D  It's almost better listeneing to it than seeing it !

There really isn't anything to see.  Be honest Karen, NOT watching, just listening, can't you imagine a lot more than you can see?

Most definitely.... without a doubt.  Just close your eyes and let your imagination take control !
Especially with headphones.  The things you hear !   Whew.....  getting hot in my office now !

[NoReins]

Jack, however, is not one to go at any pursuit cautiously or halfway (he goes "full-throttle"); it's "all or nothing" with him. So he goes for it all.

 :-[     :-[

Well, just from the sound track a blind man can tell that he got it all!!   :o :o   

Ain't that the trutch ! :D  It's almost better listeneing to it than seeing it !

There really isn't anything to see.  Be honest Karen, NOT watching, just listening, can't you imagine a lot more than you can see?

Most definitely.... without a doubt.  Just close your eyes and let your imagination take control !
Especially with headphones.  The things you hear !   Whew.....  getting hot in my office now !

Right, almost home time for me. Think I might go and listen to FNIT when I get in - I won't be able to see the screen anyway 'cos the sun will be shining on it so I'll try out your theory Patriot1 and Karen

[stacp]

Of course, I hated having to watch it all again, and in slow motion too, but NoReins asked the question and I felt I should try to help out But that's me, selfless to a fault

Your sacrifice is greatly appreciated

Just as I appreciate the sacrifices of everyone else on here, pointing out all the little details of every scene, and offering different viewpoints It's fascinating to discover so many new aspects to the movie, and it's good to know I'm not the only one who's so obssessed about it

Btw, I hadn't noticed Jack pulling Ennis onto him with his right hand until it was mentioned further up in the thread, so thanks to everyone for the POV on that For what it's worth, I think Jack wanted Ennis to be on top that night, I don't have any evidence to support it, just my gut feeling

Crimsonsky, I agree with you.  I think Jack wanted Ennis on top, too.  I see Jack taking his jacket off and then unbuckling his pants (could watch that all night) as his invitation for Ennis to, um, "have" him.   :o  Jack, I think, knew Ennis would only be okay in his masculinity if he were on top that night, and I think Jack was fine with this, to say the least.  Ennis sure took charge in a hurry--his aggressiveness is sexy to me!  Does anyone notice how Jack, after they grab each others' faces and before Jack unbuckles,  ever so slightly puckers his lips like he's either trying to say something or kiss Ennis?  SEXY!  Whew, haven't watched FNIT in a few days and am beginning to shake from the withdrawals!  Off I Go!

[NoReins]

Does anyone notice how Jack, after they grab each others' faces and before Jack unbuckles,  ever so slightly puckers his lips like he's either trying to say something or kiss Ennis?  SEXY!  Whew, haven't watched FNIT in a few days and am beginning to shake from the withdrawals!  Off I Go!

I think Jack definitely wanted to kiss Ennis, but he also knew that might be a step too far for Ennis - a little bit too intimate, maybe? Mind you, I guess you don't get much more intimate than what Ennis did next.... :o

[Patriot1]

Does anyone notice how Jack, after they grab each others' faces and before Jack unbuckles,  ever so slightly puckers his lips like he's either trying to say something or kiss Ennis?  SEXY!  Whew, haven't watched FNIT in a few days and am beginning to shake from the withdrawals!  Off I Go!

I think Jack definitely wanted to kiss Ennis, but he also knew that might be a step too far for Ennis - a little bit too intimate, maybe? Mind you, I guess you don't get much more intimate than what Ennis did next.... :o

Yes, but there are guys out there that will bend over in a second but don't try to kiss them.  Kissing is queer.

[NoReins]

Does anyone notice how Jack, after they grab each others' faces and before Jack unbuckles,  ever so slightly puckers his lips like he's either trying to say something or kiss Ennis?  SEXY!  Whew, haven't watched FNIT in a few days and am beginning to shake from the withdrawals!  Off I Go!

I think Jack definitely wanted to kiss Ennis, but he also knew that might be a step too far for Ennis - a little bit too intimate, maybe? Mind you, I guess you don't get much more intimate than what Ennis did next.... :o

Yes, but there are guys out there that will bend over in a second but don't try to kiss them.  Kissing is queer.

Oh. Okay....

Well, I've just listened to FNIT on my new noise cancelling ear-buds and I did pick up some pretty quiet noises from Jack that I'd missed previously as Ennis undoes his jeans. Not sure if it's better like that or not - I've got a home cinema system so sound-wise I could pretty much be in the tent with the boys when I'm watching normally

EDIT: Just realised that makes me sound like a complete pervert, which I'm not, honest I could just as easily have said the surround sound allows me to be in the kitchen with Ennis and Alma when the postcard arrives, or in Jack and Lureen's at Thanksgiving....

[Patriot1]

EDIT: Just realised that makes me sound like a complete pervert, which I'm not, honest I could just as easily have said the surround sound allows me to be in the kitchen with Ennis and Alma when the postcard arrives, or in Jack and Lureen's at Thanksgiving....

But being the pervert that you are you naturally chose to be in the tent. We undrstand.

 

Just kidding NoReins.  You are no more of a pervert than the rest of us.   

[skfong]

Yeah, I think I can fully agree with you on this. This is exactly how I see it - FNIT.

In the screenplay, Jack is described as "wide awake"; Ennis is half-asleep.� So I'd say there was definitely premeditation there!� What I'm wondering, though, is if Ennis had any inkling that something might happen when he came into the tent.� After all, they had been getting closer and closer (and someone also pointed out on another thread today that Ennis reached out and touched Jack's shoulder when they were gathering wood in a scene just before this), and he seems to have had very friendly feelings toward him . . . perhaps alcohol gave Jack the courage to act on feelings that he already had and that he sensed in Ennis.� After all, the SNIT (is that the right term?) followed soon after.

Personally, I don't think that was on his mind then... I thought that when he went inside the tent in the first night he was too drunk and tired and frozen to be thinking of anything... but once it happened, he realized how much he had wanted that himself, and what strong feelings Jack's touch had provoked in him. But he couldn't deal with these feelings at first and he was too confused and anxious, because he was brought up in such a homophobic atmosphere... I think that when he told Jack that it was a one-shot-thing and that he wasn't queer, he was more trying to convince himself of that. And then at the 2nd night, when he was sitting near the fire and Jack was inside the tent, all he knew was that he wanted to be in there with Jack and feel his touch again, and he gave in to his emotions... that's the way I see it.