Topic: First Night In Tent

[CherryCake]

and I dont think Jack was drunk at all, but he knew Ennis was.  Look at the scene by the fire before they went to sleep - Jack is perfectly steady on his feet when getting Ennis a blanket, and his speech is clear.  He knew what he wanted, and I say good luck to him  !   

I agree, ellyjay... Jack was perfectly steady... he got Ennis  liquored up and made his move... that is why this is one of my favorite pics of Jack... see how peaceful he sleeps.  :D :D :D :D

[ethan]

.. he Ennis got liquored up and made his move... that is why this is one of my favorite pics of Jack... see how peaceful he sleeps.  :D :D :D :D

Great observation and thanks for the pic. It does speak a thousand words. So peaceful.

[Valandil Eluch]

i already say it he was perfecly clear of his senses!!! he just used the right key to got Ennis on his knees!!!!!

[BBBOY]

In the screenplay, Jack is described as "wide awake"; Ennis is half-asleep.  So I'd say there was definitely premeditation there!  What I'm wondering, though, is if Ennis had any inkling that something might happen when he came into the tent.  After all, they had been getting closer and closer (and someone also pointed out on another thread today that Ennis reached out and touched Jack's shoulder when they were gathering wood in a scene just before this), and he seems to have had very friendly feelings toward him . . . perhaps alcohol gave Jack the courage to act on feelings that he already had and that he sensed in Ennis.  After all, the SNIT (is that the right term?) followed soon after.

Personally, I don't think that was on his mind then... I thought that when he went inside the tent in the first night he was too drunk and tired and frozen to be thinking of anything... but once it happened, he realized how much he had wanted that himself, and what strong feelings Jack's touch had provoked in him. But he couldn't deal with these feelings at first and he was too confused and anxious, because he was brought up in such a homophobic atmosphere... I think that when he told Jack that it was a one-shot-thing and that he wasn't queer, he was more trying to convince himself of that. And then at the 2nd night, when he was sitting near the fire and Jack was inside the tent, all he knew was that he wanted to be in there with Jack and feel his touch again, and he gave in to his emotions... that's the way I see it.

You hit the nail on the head keren_b.

[Valandil Eluch]

In the screenplay, Jack is described as "wide awake"; Ennis is half-asleep.  So I'd say there was definitely premeditation there!  What I'm wondering, though, is if Ennis had any inkling that something might happen when he came into the tent.  After all, they had been getting closer and closer (and someone also pointed out on another thread today that Ennis reached out and touched Jack's shoulder when they were gathering wood in a scene just before this), and he seems to have had very friendly feelings toward him . . . perhaps alcohol gave Jack the courage to act on feelings that he already had and that he sensed in Ennis.  After all, the SNIT (is that the right term?) followed soon after.

Personally, I don't think that was on his mind then... I thought that when he went inside the tent in the first night he was too drunk and tired and frozen to be thinking of anything... but once it happened, he realized how much he had wanted that himself, and what strong feelings Jack's touch had provoked in him. But he couldn't deal with these feelings at first and he was too confused and anxious, because he was brought up in such a homophobic atmosphere... I think that when he told Jack that it was a one-shot-thing and that he wasn't queer, he was more trying to convince himself of that. And then at the 2nd night, when he was sitting near the fire and Jack was inside the tent, all he knew was that he wanted to be in there with Jack and feel his touch again, and he gave in to his emotions... that's the way I see it.

and i thought i was crazy keren that post of yours is so true!!!!

[keren_b]

I agree, ellyjay... Jack was perfectly steady... he got Ennis  liquored up and made his move...

Do you think that Jack had it all planned and got Ennis drunk on purpose just so he can make his move? I might be just too naive but I thought it happened more naturally...

[forbiddenlovers]

I don't think Jack planned it. They were both trashed that night, drinking as they usually did at night, but they just opened up to each other so much more that night. The liquor was flowing that night, just good time, good company and the alcohol lowered Jack's inhibititions. He made his move, but I don't think he got Ennis drunk for that purpose.  Ennis seemed to like his drink pretty well on his own, lol.  But, that's totally my opinion

BTW, I bought the short story and screenplay this weekend. Definitely opened up so much more to me now that I'm reading both of them!!

Ann

[Valandil Eluch]

naaaaah it was not planned it was naturally because if Ennis would have saddled to the tent nothing would have happen that night

[ethan]

He made his move, but I don't think he got Ennis drunk for that purpose.  Ennis seemed to like his drink pretty well on his own, lol.  But, that's totally my opinion

BTW, I bought the short story and screenplay this weekend. Definitely opened up so much more to me now that I'm reading both of them!!
Ann

Yes. I don't think Jack had planned for it either. He just seized the opportunity. Jack said "You ought to sleep with me in the tent"

Enjoy reading the short story and screenplay. They are wonderful to read.

[Italian_Dude]

He made his move, but I don't think he got Ennis drunk for that purpose.  Ennis seemed to like his drink pretty well on his own, lol.  But, that's totally my opinion

BTW, I bought the short story and screenplay this weekend. Definitely opened up so much more to me now that I'm reading both of them!!
Ann

Yes. I don't think Jack had planned for it either. He just seized the opportunity. Jack said "You ought to sleep with me in the tent"

I agree completely. Do you guys not recall Ennis saying

"You may be a sinner but I ain't yet had the opportunity"

... well, JACK SEIZED THE OPPORTUNITY!! YAY!!! 

[ethan]

I agree completely. Do you guys not recall Ennis saying
"You may be a sinner but I ain't yet had the opportunity"
... well, JACK SEIZED THE OPPORTUNITY!! YAY!!! 

Great one, I_D. Thanks! Ennis got his opportunity.  All of the sudden, I am so happy.

[forbiddenlovers]

Thank you, Ethan, love the reading of screenplay, it's really a wonderful read, along with the short story. 

That's right, Jack seized the opportunity that Ennis had not yet experienced. But in no way did he plan it. Those two had sexual tension wrote all over them, it was just a matter of time before Jack made his move. I think Ennis never would have made the move if Jack hadn't.

[Sunflower79]

I tend to agree..I don't think it was planned the first time in the tent..it just happend..or Jack making his move and having it work out..thats what I liked about the first scene..it just happend..it wasn't fake or anything..it was real emotions..and real feelings..and right before there sleeping looking peaceful and content..but I think right before that Jack's eyes are opend or they appeared that way to me..maybe his eyes were open we told Ennis to move into the tent..but I think they were open at one point when Ennis finally came into the tent with him..and before the tent scene they fall sleep next to each other on the ground..and then Jack goes into the tent..but anyways I did like it the first tent scene..

[greenfrog]

and I dont think Jack was drunk at all, but he knew Ennis was.  Look at the scene by the fire before they went to sleep - Jack is perfectly steady on his feet when getting Ennis a blanket, and his speech is clear.  He knew what he wanted, and I say good luck to him  !   

I agree, ellyjay... Jack was perfectly steady... he got Ennis  liquored up and made his move... that is why this is one of my favorite pics of Jack... see how peaceful he sleeps.  :D :D :D :D

Note the expression on Ennis's face ... *Squint* He looks a little sore.

[keren_b]

I agree, ellyjay... Jack was perfectly steady... he got Ennis  liquored up and made his move... that is why this is one of my favorite pics of Jack... see how peaceful he sleeps.  :D :D :D :D

Note the expression on Ennis's face ... *Squint* He looks a little sore.

The story said he woke up with a terrible headache.

[donnaread]

and I dont think Jack was drunk at all, but he knew Ennis was.  Look at the scene by the fire before they went to sleep - Jack is perfectly steady on his feet when getting Ennis a blanket, and his speech is clear.  He knew what he wanted, and I say good luck to him  !   

I agree, ellyjay... Jack was perfectly steady... he got Ennis  liquored up and made his move... that is why this is one of my favorite pics of Jack... see how peaceful he sleeps.  :D :D :D :D

I thought he sounded kinda drunk when he said "GIven 'em hell" when Ennis says he's going up to the sheep, but it might have been more that he was sleepy, just lying there by the fire, and when he got up to get the blanket, he woke up and  his speech was clearer.  Donna

[TJ]

What was in the movie was somewhat different from what was in the short story.

Quote from the SS:

"Too late to go out to them damn sheep," said Ennis, dizzy drunk on all fours one cold hour when the moon had notched past two. The meadow stones glowed white-green and a flinty wind worked over the meadow, scraped the fire low, then ruffled it into yellow silk sashes. "Got you a extra blanket I'll roll up out here and grab forty winks, ride out at first light."
   "Freeze your ass off when that fire dies down. Better off sleepin in the tent."
   "Doubt I'll feel nothin." But he staggered under canvas, pulled his boots off, snored on the ground cloth for a while, woke Jack with the clacking of his jaw.
   "Jesus Christ, quit hammerin and get over here. Bedroll's big enough," said Jack in an irritable sleep-clogged voice. It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intimacy considerably. Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect c*ck. Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire, got to his knees, unbuckled his belt, shoved his pants down, hauled Jack onto all fours and, with the help of the clear slick and a little spit, entered him, nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed. They went at it in silence except for a few sharp intakes of breath and Jack's choked "gun's goin off," then out, down, and asleep.

Notice that Jack did not "Got . . . an extra blanket" for Ennis. Notice that the only one who undid his pants in the above was Ennis. Jack either had his pushed down already or he was naked in the bedroll. If one has the right kind of bedding for a bedroll, one can actually keep warmer if sleeping in the nude while camping out of doors.

[CherryCake]

What was in the movie was somewhat different from what was in the short story.

Quote from the SS:

Notice that Jack did not "Got . . . an extra blanket" for Ennis. Notice that the only one who undid his pants in the above was Ennis. Jack either had his pushed down already or he was naked in the bedroll. If one has the right kind of bedding for a bedroll, one can actually keep warmer if sleeping in the nude while camping out of doors.

That makes sense... hmmm Jack was ready for Ennis. Wow i didn't catch that... explains how Jack was able to get Ennis's hand on his erect c*ck.

[donnaread]

Ann, both story and screenplay agree on this detail.  He took Ennis's hand and wrapped it around his c*ck.  You can see Gyllenhaal/Jack squirming with pleasure in this scene -- right before Ledger/Ennis awakes...

Most people don't seem to notice this right off. I don't think I noticed what he was doing until the third and last time I saw it in the theater. Now I watch it and can't believe I didn't catch it the first time.

Bram, I thought the same thing the first couple times I saw the movie.  I thought he was just pulling Ennis' arm around himself...then again in the movie theaters I saw it in, the scene was much darker than in the DVD.  However, after I read the short story, I finally saw where he was putting Ennis' hand and I couldn't believe I'd missed it the first few times, lol.  Amazing, isn't it?

Donna

[TJ]

In the movie, it looks like they are lying in a double-sized bedroll, with Ennis lying flat on his back and Jack on his left side with his back to Ennis. It seemed rather awkward to me how Jack reached behind himself and across Ennis to grab a hold of Ennis's right hand and forcefully pull it across his own body to put it on his erection.

Knowing the fighting nature of Ennis, I think that if (Annie Proulx's) Jack had done that, Ennis would have given Jack an attitude adjustment by slugging him in the face. Ennis was not the type who would let another person force him to do something.

[keren_b]

In the movie, it looks like they are lying in a double-sized bedroll, with Ennis lying flat on his back and Jack on his left side with his back to Ennis. It seemed rather awkward to me how Jack reached behind himself and across Ennis to grab a hold of Ennis's right hand and forcefully pull it across his own body to put it on his erection.

Knowing the fighting nature of Ennis, I think that if (Annie Proulx's) Jack had done that, Ennis would have given Jack an attitude adjustment by slugging him in the face. Ennis was not the type who would let another person force him to do something.

But I don't see the difference between the story and the movie regarding this point. in the story he did the same thing - seized Ennis's hand and brought it to his erection, and Ennis reacted just as he did in the movie - first jumped back, but then flipped Jack over.

[proulxfan]

In the movie, it looks like they are lying in a double-sized bedroll, with Ennis lying flat on his back and Jack on his left side with his back to Ennis. It seemed rather awkward to me how Jack reached behind himself and across Ennis to grab a hold of Ennis's right hand and forcefully pull it across his own body to put it on his erection.

Knowing the fighting nature of Ennis, I think that if (Annie Proulx's) Jack had done that, Ennis would have given Jack an attitude adjustment by slugging him in the face. Ennis was not the type who would let another person force him to do something.

If you read Annie's story again, you will note that Ennis "enters" Jack with the help of "slick" and a little spit. Male anatomy being what it is, that requires Ennis to have an erection and the benefit of a little time, a minute or so. The implication being that Ennis was lying there wanting it pretty badly too, he just wasn't as consciously aware of it yet. This may be just as true in the film.
It would be interesting to time how long an interval it is between Ennis bolting upright and then undoing his belt and trousers; can't be more that 10 seconds.

And maybe OT and a little off color, but I can't help feeling a little distressed for our poor Jack on the suddenness of Ennis's entry. OWWWW!!! to put it mildly. Good thing Jack doesn't have a low startle point. OK I promise I'll stop now

[CherryCake]

In the movie, it looks like they are lying in a double-sized bedroll, with Ennis lying flat on his back and Jack on his left side with his back to Ennis. It seemed rather awkward to me how Jack reached behind himself and across Ennis to grab a hold of Ennis's right hand and forcefully pull it across his own body to put it on his erection.

Knowing the fighting nature of Ennis, I think that if (Annie Proulx's) Jack had done that, Ennis would have given Jack an attitude adjustment by slugging him in the face. Ennis was not the type who would let another person force him to do something.

If you read Annie's story again, you will note that Ennis "enters" Jack with the help of "slick" and a little spit. Male anatomy being what it is, that requires Ennis to have an erection and the benefit of a little time, a minute or so. The implication being that Ennis was lying there wanting it pretty badly too, he just wasn't as consciously aware of it yet. This may be just as true in the film.
It would be interesting to time how long an interval it is between Ennis bolting upright and then undoing his belt and trousers; can't be more that 10 seconds.

And maybe OT and a little off color, but I can't help feeling a little distressed for our poor Jack on the suddenness of Ennis's entry. OWWWW!!! to put it mildly. Good thing Jack doesn't have a low startle point. OK I promise I'll stop now

I totally agree with you Proulxfan, about Ennis was lying there, wanting it pretty badly, and had his own erection going on.  On the other hand... by this point, Jack has been wanting this from Ennis for a while... I think when Ennis flipped him over, he had been ready and wanting this the whole night.

[proulxfan]

No argument there, Cherry Cake, but from personal experience, a little patience can make all the difference with things like this. The spirit may be willing, but the flesh is weak, and sensitive I might add.

[TJ]

If you read Annie's story again, you will note that Ennis "enters" Jack with the help of "slick" and a little spit. Male anatomy being what it is, that requires Ennis to have an erection and the benefit of a little time, a minute or so. The implication being that Ennis was lying there wanting it pretty badly too, he just wasn't as consciously aware of it yet. This may be just as true in the film.
It would be interesting to time how long an interval it is between Ennis bolting upright and then undoing his belt and trousers; can't be more that 10 seconds.

And maybe OT and a little off color, but I can't help feeling a little distressed for our poor Jack on the suddenness of Ennis's entry. OWWWW!!! to put it mildly. Good thing Jack doesn't have a low startle point. OK I promise I'll stop now

Oh, I don't think your 2nd paragraph is OT nor OC in that some people who are bottoms do need considerable foreplay before they are entered from behind.

Ennis did have to have some sexual arousal and was sexually attracted to Jack. I have met bisexuals who don't have a problem with foreplay with women but, they are in a hurry when it comes to sex with another guy.

In the movie, from the way that I remember it, I've only seen it 3 times, it was almost like they were not even touching before Jack reached for Ennis's hand. And, I doubt that a person who had been dizzy drunk like Ennis was would even get an erection that fast as in the movie.

I prefer Annie Proulx's "deepened intimacy" in this situation. As to whether they kissed or not, she did not say; but, considering how they kissed at the reunion 4 years later, I would not be surprised if that intimacy did include some kissing. If Jack had been lying on his left side facing Ennis it would have been not problem for Jack to take Ennis's left hand and put it on his erect penis.

[NoReins]

There was a discussion over at the IMDB board about this and someone said that there's a pause just after they both get up to their knees - just before Jack takes his jacket off - where it looks like Jack takes Ennis's hand again and puts it on his crotch, like he's making sure that Ennis knows that he's aroused (although presumably Ennis already knew this from the first time Jack took his hand) Watching it on the youtube clips, it does seem like there's a few seconds where they're both just looking at each other and Jack's hand has definitely moved from the intial grab of Ennis's jacket.....

I'm not sure if this would be enough to get Ennis aroused, though - although if he's already attracted to Jack then maybe....I'm certainly no expert on these matters :-[

[xvbbJ]

Ok, and here's my big question for the day.

The FNIT scene. What do you think Jack was thinking when he reached over and grabbed Ennis' arm to wrap around him. Was he doing these, merely to keep them both warm, do you think Jack was finally just making that first move, or do you think Jack was half asleep and wasn't thinking?  I'm going for the Jack was trying to keep them warm and was half asleep and not thinking but subconsciously, he wanted to make the move and just go for it. So I answer all of the above, lol.

What about you?

Ann

I have never seen Jack as the planning kind (getting Ennis drunk, etc. - some people seem to favour this view), imo, he was suddenly overwhelmed by Ennis, he didn't really know what he was doing, he just felt a pull he could never, never have resisted, the pull of fate maybe. I think the FNIT scene is a metaphor for the whole movie. Those two people were introduced kinda suddenly to each other, and very violently. 

[Valandil Eluch]

Ok, and here's my big question for the day.

The FNIT scene. What do you think Jack was thinking when he reached over and grabbed Ennis' arm to wrap around him. Was he doing these, merely to keep them both warm, do you think Jack was finally just making that first move, or do you think Jack was half asleep and wasn't thinking?  I'm going for the Jack was trying to keep them warm and was half asleep and not thinking but subconsciously, he wanted to make the move and just go for it. So I answer all of the above, lol.

What about you?

Ann

I have never seen Jack as the planning kind (getting Ennis drunk, etc. - some people seem to favour this view), imo, he was suddenly overwhelmed by Ennis, he didn't really know what he was doing, he just felt a pull he could never, never have resisted, the pull of fate maybe. I think the FNIT scene is a metaphor for the whole movie. Those two people were introduced kinda suddenly to each other, and very violently. 

i never look at it in that way but you seem to be quite right there was a big difference from the FNIT and SNIT and it makes sense that in the first one shows how they were introduced to each other live's. Ennis and Jack were not aware or not prepared to face all the conflicts the distiny have for them.

[xvbbJ]

Ennis and Jack were not aware or not prepared to face all the conflicts the distiny have for them.

Even the greatest love cannot rise triumphant over every obstacle.. That might happen in movies, in real life not everyone marries his greatest love or lives with him/her to the end of their days, it's maybe even more uncommon than settling for "comfortable" partners.

[Marge Innavera]

In my Dvd, when you run subtitles, Ennis slurs 'What are we doing' as he and Jack are face to face after he jerked upright.  Jack just stares at him - fixing him with his stare, and says nothing but rips his jacket off.  And it goes from there ..... Wow!

This is one of my favorite scenes; and IMO it was incredible how sexy the simple act of taking off a jacket was - moreso than others I've seen where people disrobe completely.  Maybe it was the combination of his stripping off the jacket while never taking his eyes off Ennis.

and I dont think Jack was drunk at all, but he knew Ennis was.  Look at the scene by the fire before they went to sleep - Jack is perfectly steady on his feet when getting Ennis a blanket, and his speech is clear.

Never noticed that, but you're right!  :D  And Jack tries at that point to get Ennis to come into the tent. He might not actually be plotting a seduction at that point, but might see a possible opportunity.

And good point