Topic: First Night In Tent

[babytammy7]

Thanks MPJ.  I think part of it is that Jack wasn't so sure as to how Ennis would react, and this largely accounts for the "roughness" of it all.  I really think that in the beginning, they were trying to grapple with whether to kiss the other or not -- instead, we just see them holding each other's heads, unsure of how to proceed.

There is one moment there Thomas, just a second, where you can see that Jack tried to kiss Ennis, but Ennis didn't let him.

and dammit that whole forehead touching thing that only Ennis and Jack can do  we saw that in the reunion as well it's like their way of communicating without words but we know exactly what their trying to say

Yeah, that's true, that's so Ennis and Jack, and I love it. As you say, they said to each other a lot of things just with that gesture full of love, tenderness and understanding.

[sportstalk23]

There is one moment there Thomas, just a second, where you can see that Jack tried to kiss Ennis, but Ennis didn't let him.

Yeah, that's true, that's so Ennis and Jack, and I love it. As you say, they said to each other a lot of things just with that gesture full of love, tenderness and understanding.

it drives me nuts T when I hear critics go "oh its so lacking dialogue"  I want to personally thank Annie, Ang, Larry, Dianna for making it just right the industry is sometimes so obessed over having a quotable catchphrase to market that they talk us to death alot of relationships especially true love that you dont need to say it with words but just a look or touch can say everything thats why I love this movie so much 

[Matt Nasty]

it drives me nuts T when I hear critics go "oh its so lacking dialogue"  I want to personally thank Annie, Ang, Larry, Dianna for making it just right the industry is sometimes so obessed over having a quotable catchphrase to market that they talk us to death alot of relationships especially true love that you dont need to say it with words but just a look or touch can say everything thats why I love this movie so much 

i cant beleive ive jsut found this thread now after about 5 months of being here... anyway i wanted to say sports i agree with everything you say here

[sportstalk23]

i cant beleive ive jsut found this thread now after about 5 months of being here... anyway i wanted to say sports i agree with everything you say here

matt but i cant wait to see ur FNIT analysis 

[Matt Nasty]

matt but i cant wait to see ur FNIT analysis 

oh you'll get it tomorow dont worry , im a little tired now though

[babytammy7]

it drives me nuts T when I hear critics go "oh its so lacking dialogue"  I want to personally thank Annie, Ang, Larry, Dianna for making it just right the industry is sometimes so obessed over having a quotable catchphrase to market that they talk us to death alot of relationships especially true love that you dont need to say it with words but just a look or touch can say everything thats why I love this movie so much 

Amen. 

[tpe]

There is one moment there Thomas, just a second, where you can see that Jack tried to kiss Ennis, but Ennis didn't let him.

I agree.  I did think that THAT was what Jack was attempting to do.

[tpe]

it drives me nuts T when I hear critics go "oh its so lacking dialogue"  I want to personally thank Annie, Ang, Larry, Dianna for making it just right the industry is sometimes so obessed over having a quotable catchphrase to market that they talk us to death alot of relationships especially true love that you dont need to say it with words but just a look or touch can say everything thats why I love this movie so much 

In think the long silences in the movie are its greatest strengths.  This is especially true in FNIT, where the sounds are so raw and quasi-animalistic.  Any form of dialogue would fall short...

[Matt Nasty]

In think the long silences in the movie are its greatest strengths.  This is especially true in FNIT, where the sounds are so raw and quasi-animalistic.  Any form of dialogue would fall short...

yes, i always thought the grunts and moans of FNIT were a perfect metaphor of all the pent up emotion... like the gutteral sounds being released forcefully as the emotions...sorry if that makes no sense lol

[sportstalk23]

yes, i always thought the grunts and moans of FNIT were a perfect metaphor of all the pent up emotion... like the gutteral sounds being released forcefully as the emotions...sorry if that makes no sense lol

makes plenty of sense to me matt  all them grunts groans and moans painted a picture of alot of sexual tension that was going on with those 2 from the start

[Matt Nasty]

makes plenty of sense to me matt  all them grunts groans and moans painted a picture of alot of sexual tension that was going on with those 2 from the start

yer

[rimasworld]

You know the more I watch this scene, the way Jack got things started was really non aggressive by taking Ennis' hand and putting it on him. To me it would have been more of a threat for him to touch Ennis in that way. And when Ennis jumped up and Jack went to him he put Ennis' hand on him again, a lot more non threatening than if he had touched Ennis down there. It was like Jack was saying, "this is what you do to me, I want you, do you want me too?"

[Matt Nasty]

You know the more I watch this scene, the way Jack got things started was really non aggressive by taking Ennis' hand and putting it on him. To me it would have been more of a threat for him to touch Ennis in that way. And when Ennis jumped up and Jack went to him he put Ennis' hand on him again, a lot more non threatening than if he had touched Ennis down there. It was like Jack was saying, "this is what you do to me, I want you, do you want me too?"

yer jack was alot less intrusive then he could of been, by putting ennis hand there, it gave ennis the control...him touching ennis that way would be more forceful...instead his way was jsut an invitation more then a forceful advance

[aintfoolin]

 I agree with this, but I'm still confused as to if Jack was  asleep , in the middle of a * very sweet  fantasy dream* when he reached over for Ennis's hand, or was this something he did knowingly? I mean he did have a big pleaurable smile on his face, BEFORE he reached for Ennis. I assume he was dreaming about Ennis? They both seemed shocked imo ...just sayin..

[dirtbiker]

I agree with this, but I'm still confused as to if Jack was  asleep , in the middle of a * very sweet  fantasy dream* when he reached over for Ennis's hand, or was this something he did knowingly? I mean he did have a big pleaurable smile on his face, BEFORE he reached for Ennis. I assume he was dreaming about Ennis? They both seemed shocked imo ...just sayin..

Have you ever had an experience where you were half asleep dreaming and then waking up slightly, smiling, and wanted to just fall back asleep to continue the dream?  Well, maybe that's what happened here... During his limbo state of consciousness & dreaming, he willfully brought Ennis' hand to his crotch to realize his dream 

[Matt Nasty]

for some really annyoing and unknown reason my last comment has disappeared , what i was saying in it was, that in the SS, IMO it was written to sound as if jack knowingly placed Ennis hand onto his erection, maybe the shocked part was due to the fact that perhaps jack didnt expect ennis to wake up or maybe it was just the way ennis pulled away and jack was worried how ennis would react...


jsut a few thoughts...

[keren_b]

You know the more I watch this scene, the way Jack got things started was really non aggressive by taking Ennis' hand and putting it on him. To me it would have been more of a threat for him to touch Ennis in that way. And when Ennis jumped up and Jack went to him he put Ennis' hand on him again, a lot more non threatening than if he had touched Ennis down there. It was like Jack was saying, "this is what you do to me, I want you, do you want me too?"

That's a beautiful way to put their actions into words. And I agree that for Jack to put Ennis's hand on himself was less agressive and intrusive than touching Ennis that way... but it was still very straightforward and required a lot of courage on his part, since he had no idea how Ennis was going to react.

As for the question whether he was asleep or not... like Matt said, the SS implied that he was awake, but when I watched the movie I always had the impression that he was half asleep and not completely aware to what he was doing, like he was acting in a dream. I wonder if he had the courage to do it if he was fully awake?

[aintfoolin]

Matt,

Check out your post on the "Cutest Ennis" thread. Maybe you meant to post on the FNIT thread instead in response to Jack's state of conciousness when he reached for Ennis.  In any case, I think it's what Dirtbiker said, that Jack was in a sort of *semi-concious* dream state when he grabbed Ennis's hand. Yes, I've been there. ( I always get mad when I can't go back to sleep and finish the dream!) In this case Jack was able to not only continue his dream, but realize it as well.
They were under seperate blankets, but the camera did pan to show that there was plenty of room on Jack's side , yet he appeared to be butted up against Ennis. Unless Ennis was having what is commonly known as a *wet dream " too, then that would explain how Ennis became ...prepared... so soon even in a half-asleep, half-drunkin state  in order to penetrate Jack  as fast as he did. I'm not a male so I'm assuming alot.  Or maybe it was Jack's excellent but short seduction that did it. I guess it does'nt really take much for a healthy young 19 yr. old  guy to become aroused so quickly eh?  By the way, I watched this scene with a male friend who immediatly stated it's not possible.  I answered apparently it was , we just watched it happen!   Needless to say THAT was an interesting conversation.   Thanx.

[keren_b]

...Unless Ennis was having what is commonly known as a *wet dream " too, then that would explain how Ennis became ...prepared... so soon even in a half-asleep, half-drunkin state  in order to penetrate Jack  as fast as he did. I'm not a male so I'm assuming alot.  Or maybe it was Jack's excellent but short seduction that did it. I guess it does'nt really take much for a healthy young 19 yr. old  guy to become aroused so quickly eh?  By the way, I watched this scene with a male friend who immediatly stated it's not possible.  I answered apparently it was , we just watched it happen!  

Good answer! 

[rimasworld]

Good answer! 

For sure it was possible. i thought this scene was very realistic depicting raw unbridled lust between two very aroused and willing young guys.

[Matt Nasty]

i think its very realistic, and trust me ennis being 19 had more then enough time to get errect in FNIT, well unless something major in the body happens between 17 and 19 haha, trust me lol...it can go from down to up within like a second haha

[aintfoolin]

Well, I guess i got my answer Matt, oh the young (sigh). .

 This whole scene had an ebb and flow to it which I loved. First the quiet stiil of the full moon Jack and Ennis sleeping peacfully, The slow languishing moment when Jack reached for Ennis hand,  the   sudden urgent grappling  followed by a sort of calm, Ennis staring unbeleivably into Jack's baby bules. a challenge to resist unto itself. They know Ennis's secret he's tried so hard to conceal. ... Ennis, thinking  he was alone in some newfound feelings towards Jack that  went beyond just friendship, They impressed each other.There was a longing there, on both sides imo, .. He was sexually attracted to Jack as Jack was to him, but Ennis  was likely going to suffer in silence until Jack made that bold move  Jack already knew , and he could very well relate to those same feelings.. I don't feel Jack had any great plan , but  made sure Ennis knew what he wanted.. he knew it would end in some sort of sexual expression. He was gonna take it it any way Ennis could give it.   

[keren_b]

Well, I guess i got my answer Matt, oh the young (sigh). .

 This whole scene had an ebb and flow to it which I loved. First the quiet stiil of the full moon Jack and Ennis sleeping peacfully, The slow languishing moment when Jack reached for Ennis hand,  the   sudden urgent grappling  followed by a sort of calm, Ennis staring unbeleivably into Jack's baby bules. a challenge to resist unto itself. They know Ennis's secret he's tried so hard to conceal. ... Ennis, thinking  he was alone in some newfound feelings towards Jack that  went beyond just friendship, They impressed each other.There was a longing there, on both sides imo, .. He was sexually attracted to Jack as Jack was to him, but Ennis  was likely going to suffer in silence until Jack made that bold move  Jack already knew , and he could very well relate to those same feelings.. I don't feel Jack had any great plan , but  made sure Ennis knew what he wanted.. he knew it would end in some sort of sexual expression. He was gonna take it it any way Ennis could give it.   

Do you think Ennis realized what those feelings were, before that night? Yes, he had deep feelings for Jack that went beyond friendship, he felt so happy just being with him, "felt he could paw the white out of the moon"... but did he actually realize that he was sexually attracted to Jack? Did he dare admit that to himself?

[atalley]

Deep down, I think he knew.  Even though he didn't want to accept it.

[rimasworld]

Deep down, I think he knew.  Even though he didn't want to accept it.

I agree, as we know Ennis didn't have any qualms about punching people's lights out and he didn't even try to hit Jack. As the old saying goes, still waters run deep, and so it went for his sexual feelings toward Jack, oh yeah they were there for awhile.

[tpe]

Do you think Ennis realized what those feelings were, before that night? Yes, he had deep feelings for Jack that went beyond friendship, he felt so happy just being with him, "felt he could paw the white out of the moon"... but did he actually realize that he was sexually attracted to Jack? Did he dare admit that to himself?

Deep down, I think he knew.  Even though he didn't want to accept it.

I agree, as we know Ennis didn't have any qualms about punching people's lights out and he didn't even try to hit Jack. As the old saying goes, still waters run deep, and so it went for his sexual feelings toward Jack, oh yeah they were there for awhile.

I agree.   We as individuals are sometime the last to acknowledge what the Heart had known all along.

[keren_b]

I agree.   We as individuals are sometime the last to acknowledge what the Heart had known all along.

That's the way I see it - he sure felt it but he didn't really acknowledge that.

[tpe]

That's the way I see it - he sure felt it but he didn't really acknowledge that.

I think he was afraid if how he felt.  I think Jack understood this, even as he brought matters to a head in FNIT.  He probably trusted Ennis's feelings to get the better of his fears, and this indeed was the case.

[keren_b]

So you're saying actually that when Jack took Ennis's hand and put it on himself, he had reason to believe that Ennis wouldn't hit him but would actually go along with it. It also hints that Jack was aware of what he was doing there, and made a conscious decision. Am I right?

[rimasworld]

So you're saying actually that when Jack took Ennis's hand and put it on himself, he had reason to believe that Ennis wouldn't hit him but would actually go along with it. It also hints that Jack was aware of what he was doing there, and made a conscious decision. Am I right?

I think so. Ennis was giving out signals, most of them subtle, for awhile that Jack picked up on. But that last one about not having the opportunity yet to me was like an open invitation to Jack to give him the courage to do what he did. In a way, it was Ennis who really made the first move.