Topic: First Night In Tent

[pattyjean]

GOD, TPE!  Where did you go to college?  I am a smalltime writer and have a fairly good vocabulary, but you just blow we away with your posts!  Your interpretations are so precise and perfectly articulated!  Damn!

My take on FNIT:  Jack was hammered, totally "up", and he liked Ennis a lot--so why not place his hand down onto the OUTSIDE of his jeans--just to let Ennis know that he was waaay aroused?  (Remember that his belt and zipper were still fastened.)  Since I saw this movie for the first time on Bravo, I was SHOCKED when I watched the DVD and learned that Ennis chose the position that he did!  Bravo edited that out! Of course, I have watched FNIT & SNIT at least 1000 times--just to make certain I comprehend all the ramifications! LOL

But the explosive reunion (hug and "exfoliating" kisses) is my ULTRA-FAVORITE scene!!!

[tpe]

Thanks pattyjean!  I try my best, even though I don't succeed in being clear sometimes... 

pattyjean, since you watched BBM for the first time on Bravo, I would want to ask you whether you felt there was something wrong or missing when you saw the edited version of FNIT.   Did you feel that there was clearly a part of the scene that was cut?  Did you feel that there was clearly something missing when they edited out the "crucial" part of FNIT?

[pattyjean]

Thanks pattyjean!  I try my best, even though I don't succeed in being clear sometimes... 

pattyjean, since you watched BBM for the first time on Bravo, I would want to ask you whether you felt there was something wrong or missing when you saw the edited version of FNIT.   Did you feel that there was clearly a part of the scene that was cut?  Did you feel that there was clearly something missing when they edited out the "crucial" part of FNIT?

Absolutely TPE!  It mattered not to me whether E. and J. were gay, straight, purple or green:  Bravo did a terrible injustice by cutting out the latter part of that scene!  Maybe I am sex-challenged, but I just felt, during my first viewing, that Jack was the more masculine character, and that he would have assumed the role of dominant male!  I was blithely watching the DVD for the first time, and OMG!  Could not believe what I was seeing!  The explosive passion and "reversed" positions  were mind-altering for me!  Again I say that I have never been so enlightened by a MOVIE!  God--I need a "whiskey spring"!

[pattyjean]

    Over here Patty ...over here..

    Try not to wander so far away next time.

    Bring marshmallows..

Waaay funny Ranchand1!  Considering the effect the whiskey had on Jack, and especially on Ennis, during FNIT,  I was wondering if any Brokies had dealt with an overwhelming desire for whiskey?  I've honestly never imbibed in anything stronger than beer w/ tomato juice, but "whiskey on the rocks" just sounds good to me--on these 100+ degree days, followed by hot moonlit nights--watching BBM on the patio!

[smartestsonia]

Ok, and here's my big question for the day.

The FNIT scene. What do you think Jack was thinking when he reached over and grabbed Ennis' arm to wrap around him. Was he doing these, merely to keep them both warm, do you think Jack was finally just making that first move, or do you think Jack was half asleep and wasn't thinking?  I'm going for the Jack was trying to keep them warm and was half asleep and not thinking but subconsciously, he wanted to make the move and just go for it. So I answer all of the above, lol.

What about you?

Ann

Jack was drunk and he wantd to go with the flow....when he tried to hold Ennis and Ennis tried to go away at first, suddenly Jack felt kinda awakened and charged up...even when people r drunk they know what is going on if the situation is intense..and this defintely was an intense situation for them...

[tpe]

Absolutely TPE!  It mattered not to me whether E. and J. were gay, straight, purple or green:  Bravo did a terrible injustice by cutting out the latter part of that scene!  Maybe I am sex-challenged, but I just felt, during my first viewing, that Jack was the more masculine character, and that he would have assumed the role of dominant male!  I was blithely watching the DVD for the first time, and OMG!  Could not believe what I was seeing!  The explosive passion and "reversed" positions  were mind-altering for me!  Again I say that I have never been so enlightened by a MOVIE!  God--I need a "whiskey spring"!

How interesting pattyjean!  I must admit that at the start of FNIT, I did think that Jack would be the dominant partner, since he was the one who was agressivley driving the scene.  There is a discussion somewhere as to whether Jack had this role in mind, but decided to just go with the flow when Ennis decided to take the dominant role himself...

    Over here Patty ...over here..

    Try not to wander so far away next time.

    Bring marshmallows..

 

[tpe]

Jack was drunk and he wantd to go with the flow....when he tried to hold Ennis and Ennis tried to go away at first, suddenly Jack felt kinda awakened and charged up...even when people r drunk they know what is going on if the situation is intense..and this defintely was an intense situation for them...

smartestsonia, how interesting that we chose to use the same terminology: "go with the flow".  I swear that I had not read this post until after I had written the above response to pattyjean! 

[pattyjean]

smartestsonia, how interesting that we chose to use the same terminology: "go with the flow".  I swear that I had not read this post until after I had written the above response to pattyjean! 

Our terminology is getting to be a bit serendipitous, eh?  Happy, TPE, that you at first had the same take on Jake's prowess that I did--that he precipitated the intimacy, and therefore seemed to be the "in charge" guy!  I bought Annie's Proulx' book and read it AFTER viewing the DVD--so FNIT is totally as the author intended it.  Annie and Ang knew precisely the impact of all of this...

[smartestsonia]

smartestsonia, how interesting that we chose to use the same terminology: "go with the flow".  I swear that I had not read this post until after I had written the above response to pattyjean! 

ya "go with the flow" makes so much sense...one thing led to another and it was mutual...even though Jack inititated it, eventually it became mutual for them both...
the FNIT was a passionate scene and in the morning it hit them even more than the night of what they have started meaning to each other...

I personally love the SNIT scene and ofcourse the renuinion after 4 years scene

[tpe]

Our terminology is getting to be a bit serendipitous, eh?  Happy, TPE, that you at first had the same take on Jake's prowess that I did--that he precipitated the intimacy, and therefore seemed to be the "in charge" guy!  I bought Annie's Proulx' book and read it AFTER viewing the DVD--so FNIT is totally as the author intended it.  Annie and Ang knew precisely the impact of all of this...

I really think Jack was certainly versatile, as the name of the brand of the tractor he was shown driving suggested later on.    My personal opinion (not shared by everyone) is that he did take the dominant role sometimes, after the FNIT.

[tpe]

ya "go with the flow" makes so much sense...one thing led to another and it was mutual...even though Jack inititated it, eventually it became mutual for them both...
the FNIT was a passionate scene and in the morning it hit them even more than the night of what they have started meaning to each other...

I personally love the SNIT scene and ofcourse the renuinion after 4 years scene

Going with the flow also happens to be something we can all identify, especially when it comes to magtters of the heart, which can be so unpredicatble, no?

And yes, SNIT and the reunion also show them going with the flow -- or seizing the moment.

[smartestsonia]

Going with the flow also happens to be something we can all identify, especially when it comes to magtters of the heart, which can be so unpredicatble, no?

And yes, SNIT and the reunion also show them going with the flow -- or seizing the moment.

ya if we love someone, whoever it is and whatever is the relation going with the flow allows us to follow our heart and just be ourselves with that person...

and ya they did seize the moment in the SNIT and reunion scene...it was well reciprocated (the intensity as well as tenderness)

[tpe]

ya if we love someone, whoever it is and whatever is the relation going with the flow allows us to follow our heart and just be ourselves with that person...

and ya they did seize the moment in the SNIT and reunion scene...it was well reciprocated (the intensity as well as tenderness)

Also, going with the flow illustrates a willingness to adapt oneself to the needs of the other.  It is a necessity in love.

[manhattangirl]

 FNIT was raw, pure sex, and it was good.  But SNIT, and the reunion, that where the trouble starts,  it shows that they were something was growing between them, and the reunion establish it. That there was something that did get a hold of both of them, But then this great battle of trying to rein it in, of not letting overcome you, with Ennis anyway.  It reminds me of Justin and Brian in QAF.  A great fear of love and falling into it, of even saying it. It goes so far beyond the sex. 

[tpe]

FNIT was raw, pure sex, and it was good.  But SNIT, and the reunion, that where the trouble starts,  it shows that they were something was growing between them, and the reunion establish it. That there was something that did get a hold of both of them, But then this great battle of trying to rein it in, of not letting overcome you, with Ennis anyway.  It reminds me of Justin and Brian in QAF.  A great fear of love and falling into it, of even saying it. It goes so far beyond the sex. 

The FNIT was just the opening, to be sure.  Although I must admit that even in that scene, I did see love peeping underneath all the passion.

[smartestsonia]

Also, going with the flow illustrates a willingness to adapt oneself to the needs of the other.  It is a necessity in love.

When one loves someone he will understand him ..what makes him happy and what does not...so he will adapt to see that the other person is happy....Jack and Ennis throughout the film understood each other and made each other comfortable..thats true love..Ennis and Jack never had to tell each other that “don’t do this” or I don’t like it?”
The comfort level was that high…

[myprivatejack]

The FNIT was just the opening, to be sure.  Although I must admit that even in that scene, I did see love peeping underneath all the passion.

The FNIT was the explosion of some hidden and repressed feelings and sensations.It must happen,and it happenned...But,of course,I've always thought that love was present in that night because it had been also present from some time ago before it.After that and in SNIT,that love got its more real,thought and accepted-more or less in this case...-side.

[pattyjean]

I really think Jack was certainly versatile, as the name of the brand of the tractor he was shown driving suggested later on.    My personal opinion (not shared by everyone) is that he did take the dominant role sometimes, after the FNIT.

But TPE:  This a movie, remember?  There were no other "acts" to refer to.  HOWEVER, in SNIT, when Jack passionately kissed Ennis while lying on top of him, perhaps dominance was implied...very astute, TPE...

[Matt Nasty]

But TPE:  This a movie, remember?  There were no other "acts" to refer to.  HOWEVER, in SNIT, when Jack passionately kissed Ennis while lying on top of him, perhaps dominance was implied...very astute, TPE...

its true that there were no otehr acts to refer too techniqually... but ennis and jack are so far from 2 dimensional characters its almost like they are real, the way i see it the movie hows us a window to parts of there lives...but its not like those are the only parts that happeneded...if you understand. which no one probably can cos ive jsut made no sense what so ever.

[pattyjean]

its true that there were no otehr acts to refer too techniqually... but ennis and jack are so far from 2 dimensional characters its almost like they are real, the way i see it the movie hows us a window to parts of there lives...but its not like those are the only parts that happeneded...if you understand. which no one probably can cos ive jsut made no sense what so ever.

LOL Matt Nasty!  My point was that Jake and Heath are actors and what actually occurred in the movie between Jack and Ennis is, unfortunately, all we have to work with.  We can't say things like "Deep in his heart he felt such and such", because these are fictional characters.  But never fear, face value is good enough for me!  The way Jake and Heath looked at each other (in the movie) was acting at its most brilliant...and those glances were phenomenal!  I'll take one "Jack gaze" over 1000 spoken "I love you's"!   

[Matt Nasty]

LOL Matt Nasty!  My point was that Jake and Heath are actors and what actually occurred in the movie between Jack and Ennis is, unfortunately, all we have to work with.  We can't say things like "Deep in his heart he felt such and such", because these are fictional characters.  But never fear, face value is good enough for me!  The way Jake and Heath looked at each other (in the movie) was acting at its most brilliant...and those glances were phenomenal!  I'll take one "Jack gaze" over 1000 spoken "I love you's"!   

ahh i see sorry for that miss interpretation  . i see what you mean now.

[tpe]

But TPE:  This a movie, remember?  There were no other "acts" to refer to.  HOWEVER, in SNIT, when Jack passionately kissed Ennis while lying on top of him, perhaps dominance was implied...very astute, TPE...

its true that there were no otehr acts to refer too techniqually... but ennis and jack are so far from 2 dimensional characters its almost like they are real, the way i see it the movie hows us a window to parts of there lives...but its not like those are the only parts that happeneded...if you understand. which no one probably can cos ive jsut made no sense what so ever.

Another way of putting it: there are a lot of things that are only implied in the movie -- and it doesn't mean that it wasn't real or that it didn't happen.  Ennis never said "I love you" verbally to Jack, but did this mean that it was not the case? 

[tpe]

LOL Matt Nasty!  My point was that Jake and Heath are actors and what actually occurred in the movie between Jack and Ennis is, unfortunately, all we have to work with.  We can't say things like "Deep in his heart he felt such and such", because these are fictional characters.  But never fear, face value is good enough for me!  The way Jake and Heath looked at each other (in the movie) was acting at its most brilliant...and those glances were phenomenal!  I'll take one "Jack gaze" over 1000 spoken "I love you's"!   

Hello pattyjean!

Well, first and foremost, the forum forbids us to extrapolate what we think of the characters to the RL actors (i.e., Jake and Heath).   It is out of respect for the actors that we insist on this rule.

Secondly, the fact that this is fiction and the fact that the story leaves room for a lot of interpretation allows us to say "Deep in his heart, he felt such and such", provided that it is cler the the context is within our own personal interpretation of certain scenes that ARE open to interpretation.  For example, Jack's death is not certain -- we have no choice but to extrapolate the cause of his death, and that depends on our own interpretation, because the story left it intentionally open to such things. 

[atalley]

Pattyjean...I don't think Jack was drunk in FNIT.  I think he purposely let Ennis get drunk so his guard would be down.  However, Ennis was really drunk!

[pattyjean]

Pattyjean...I don't think Jack was drunk in FNIT.  I think he purposely let Ennis get drunk so his guard would be down.  However, Ennis was really drunk!

When I watch BBM with subtitles on, Jack says to Ennis something like, "You can't even stand up--too late to go up to the sheep!".  Jack sounds extremely smashed when he says that--even though he is can handle liquor better than Ennis.  Just my take...

[babytammy7]

Yeah, Jack was not as drunk as Ennis, but he was drunk doubtless. I think lots of brokies agree with that, Patty.

[sportstalk23]

I would say Jack was what you call buzzed yall know the one you get during afterwork happy hour  but Ennis was drunk off his ass like new years  maybe it was done purposely to have more inhibriated than the other? would there be the same results in the FNIT if both were really stumbling drunk? I always wondered about

[pattyjean]

I would say Jack was what you call buzzed yall know the one you get during afterwork happy hour  but Ennis was drunk off his ass like new years  maybe it was done purposely to have more inhibriated than the other? would there be the same results in the FNIT if both were really stumbling drunk? I always wondered about

Actually Jack's buzz and Ennis' drunkeness contributed greatly to making the scene so beautiful and perfectly executed: "No instruction manuel needed"!     

[smartestsonia]

Actually Jack's buzz and Ennis' drunkeness contributed greatly to making the scene so beautiful and perfectly executed: "No instruction manuel needed"!     

ya thats there...it all led to the FNIT.......even though Jack initiated it , eventually it became very mutual...it was so meant to be

[pattyjean]

Some other Brokies had mentioned that, after sitting up, Jack places his Ennis'left hand on his fly--just to show him how enormously aroused he is--and Ennis does not remove his hand!  Having viewed this masterpiece infinite times, I cannot believe I finally noticed this erotic mini-scene just yesterday!