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Author Topic: First Night In Tent  (Read 312136 times)

Offline welshwitch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #60 on: Apr 26, 2006, 12:12 PM »
It's an amazingly powerful scene partly because it's so sudden and unexpected. I assumed Jack had an erection and was hoping that if he put Ennis's hand on it, ennis might do the necessary rather then him " rolling his own", as Annie Proulx puts it elsewhere in the story.  I also assumed that as nineteen-year-olds stuck up there for some time they were ready for sex of any sort - and Annie Proulx does say, in a rather throwaway sentence, that in the past some owners sent up two men together so that if they were desperate they'd shag each other ( ? rather than the sheep).
The SNIT seems to me the time when tenderness and closeness and warmth and caring come into it - Jack is making love to Ennisi then, it's not purely animalistic.
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Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #61 on: Apr 26, 2006, 12:49 PM »
Quote from: welshwitch on Apr 26, 2006, 12:12 PM
The SNIT seems to me the time when tenderness and closeness and warmth and caring come into it - Jack is making love to Ennisi then, it's not purely animalistic.

Yeah, that's my take on it too - the second night they make love, rather than just have sex.
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Offline keren_b

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #62 on: Apr 27, 2006, 03:49 AM »
Quote from: NoReins on Apr 26, 2006, 12:49 PM
Quote from: welshwitch on Apr 26, 2006, 12:12 PM
The SNIT seems to me the time when tenderness and closeness and warmth and caring come into it - Jack is making love to Ennisi then, it's not purely animalistic.

Yeah, that's my take on it too - the second night they make love, rather than just have sex.

And that's why it's so beautiful. You can feel how much emotions they share between them at that point, and it makes every touch so special to them - and to us.
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2006, 01:36 PM by keren_b »
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Offline TJ

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #63 on: Apr 27, 2006, 01:12 PM »
Going by the AP story lines, I really think that the reason that Jack Twist put Ennis Del Mar's hand on his erect c*ck was that Jack had felt the rise in Ennis's Levi's which was butted against Jack's bare nekkid rear end.

It would be like Jack saying by his actions, "Oh, you got a hardon, Ennis. Let my take your hand to show you that I have one, too."

IMO, the evidence of the "clear slick" which Ennis had was due to that he was sexually aroused by Jack during their deepened intimacy in the bedroll.
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(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #64 on: Apr 27, 2006, 02:04 PM »
Quote from: TJ on Apr 27, 2006, 01:12 PM
Going by the AP story lines, I really think that the reason that Jack Twist put Ennis Del Mar's hand on his erect c*ck was that Jack had felt the rise in Ennis's Levi's which was butted against Jack's bare nekkid rear end.

It would be like Jack saying by his actions, "Oh, you got a hardon, Ennis. Let my take your hand to show you that I have one, too."

IMO, the evidence of the "clear slick" which Ennis had was due to that he was sexually aroused by Jack during their deepened intimacy in the bedroll.

i agree with you it never says on the book that Ennis had to wake up his friend he was already exited with Jack closeness to him that is the point onf that night they both were exited to be close to each other.
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Offline welshwitch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #65 on: Apr 27, 2006, 03:32 PM »
To bring down the tone a notch, Shakespeare says that alcohol provokes the desire but takes away the performance - but drunk or sober they didn't appear to have any problems!
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Offline TJ

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #66 on: Apr 27, 2006, 04:54 PM »
Quote from: welshwitch on Apr 27, 2006, 03:32 PM
To bring down the tone a notch, Shakespeare says that alcohol provokes the desire but takes away the performance - but drunk or sober they didn't appear to have any problems!

Annie Proulx wrote that Ennis was "dizzy drunk" and it was after 2 in the morning. I have noticed that some people seem to be drunker when they are exhausted.

I have also observed in real life that sometimes "alcohol kills/over-rides the guilt feelings which one has in regard to same-gender sexual activity." The source of the guilt for homosexuals usually comes from "Christians" who have proof-texted the Bible claiming homosexuality is a sin.

But, I think that the cold air and the amount of time he spent cold ground probably sobered Ennis up quite a bit before he got into the bedroll with Jack.
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(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline shieldmaid

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #67 on: Apr 27, 2006, 05:44 PM »
I also love the fact that in this scene they start out in "spoon" position, then face each other, struggling, then Ennis flips Jack over.  It's not just a quick, covert thing--there are stages leading up to their consummation.  Ennis has the chance to back out, for sure, but he definitely shows Jack that he's interested, in multiple ways.  I think it's important that they confront each other, almost, face to face, before getting physical.  That sets the stage for the SNIT.
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Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #68 on: Apr 28, 2006, 02:35 AM »
For me, the moment that confirms Ennis is interested is when he puts his hands on Jack's face, just after Jack takes his jacket off - up until that point there's just a lot of grabbing of jackets/shoulders and it's not totally clear whether Ennis is trying to hold Jack off or hold on to him. But as soon as he touches Jack's face, then holds onto his hair (badly put, but I'm sure you all know which bit I mean), it's clear that he's not going to run away. It's only after Ennis does this that Jack unbuckles his belt (tries desperately to think of something other than Jake Gyllenhaal unbuckling his belt with one hand ;D)- almost like he was waiting for confirmation that Ennis wanted this too.
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Offline keren_b

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #69 on: Apr 28, 2006, 06:30 AM »
Quote from: NoReins on Apr 28, 2006, 02:35 AM
For me, the moment that confirms Ennis is interested is when he puts his hands on Jack's face, just after Jack takes his jacket off - up until that point there's just a lot of grabbing of jackets/shoulders and it's not totally clear whether Ennis is trying to hold Jack off or hold on to him. But as soon as he touches Jack's face, then holds onto his hair (badly put, but I'm sure you all know which bit I mean), it's clear that he's not going to run away. It's only after Ennis does this that Jack unbuckles his belt (tries desperately to think of something other than Jake Gyllenhaal unbuckling his belt with one hand ;D)- almost like he was waiting for confirmation that Ennis wanted this too.

It's true, when you want to push somebody off you dont need to touch their face or their hair, certainly not the way Ennis did. I think that in those brief moments when they held each other's faces, their eyes were talking to each other, telling each other without words how much they've wanted that. and like you said, it was only after Jack got this confirmation from Ennis's eyes that he unbuckled his belt.
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Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #70 on: Apr 28, 2006, 07:04 AM »
Quote from: keren_b on Apr 28, 2006, 06:30 AM
I think that in those brief moments when they held each other's faces, their eyes were talking to each other, telling each other without words how much they've wanted that.

Thanks keren - that's what I was trying to say. You put it much better though.

Quote from: keren_b on Apr 28, 2006, 06:30 AM
and like you said, it was only after Jack got this confirmation from Ennis's eyes that he unbuckled his belt.

(OT) Jeez, still thinking about that.... ::) ;)
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Offline shieldmaid

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #71 on: Apr 29, 2006, 08:19 AM »
Quote from: NoReins on Apr 28, 2006, 07:04 AM
Quote from: keren_b on Apr 28, 2006, 06:30 AM
I think that in those brief moments when they held each other's faces, their eyes were talking to each other, telling each other without words how much they've wanted that.

Thanks keren - that's what I was trying to say. You put it much better though.

Quote from: keren_b on Apr 28, 2006, 06:30 AM
and like you said, it was only after Jack got this confirmation from Ennis's eyes that he unbuckled his belt.

(OT) Jeez, still thinking about that.... ::) ;)

Wow, I think I'm blushing.    ;)  I absolutely love it when Jack undoes his belt--and clearly Ennis does too, since when he sees that, he is galvanized into action.  Suddenly he desperately rips off his own pants and spits into his hand . . . .  (OT: I wonder how many times they had to rehearse this scene!)
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Offline welshwitch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #72 on: Apr 29, 2006, 03:01 PM »
I also, having entirely the wrong sort of mind, wonder what motivated Jake to hammer the ground as he did in the FNIT; the ss says "they went at it in silence except for a few sharp intakes of breath", but his violent movements added to the power of the scene for me. Incidentally, the shot where Ennis wakes next morning but Jack is still asleep ( and the later shot much nearer the end of  the movie of Jack asleep wrapped round Ennis) make me think of the quotation "Calm of mind, all passion spent" - I think Jack is totally fulfilled by Ennis and his expression conveys this.
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Rennie51

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #73 on: Apr 29, 2006, 04:55 PM »
In that last tent sleeping scene, I'm pretty sure it was Ennis wrapped around Jack.   :)
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Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #74 on: Apr 29, 2006, 05:12 PM »
Quote from: Rennie51 on Apr 29, 2006, 04:55 PM
In that last tent sleeping scene, I'm pretty sure it was Ennis wrapped around Jack.   :)

You're right, Rennie51, it was.

Quote from: welshwitch
I think Jack is totally fulfilled by Ennis and his expression conveys this

Aww, that's a nice way of putting it.
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This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

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Offline keren_b

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #75 on: Apr 30, 2006, 07:42 AM »
I know from reading the posts here that Jack hits the ground with Ennis's hand, but every time I've seen this scene in the theater it was too dark for me to see anything! I'm still waiting for my own private copy to check it for myself... there are quite a few things that I need to check more closely once I get it, I should make a list!  ;)
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Offline shieldmaid

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #76 on: Apr 30, 2006, 08:14 AM »
Quote from: keren_b on Apr 30, 2006, 07:42 AM
I know from reading the posts here that Jack hits the ground with Ennis's hand, but every time I've seen this scene in the theater it was too dark for me to see anything! I'm still waiting for my own private copy to check it for myself... there are quite a few things that I need to check more closely once I get it, I should make a list!  ;)

I was pretty surprised to see this, too, once I had gotten my DVD.  :)  One thing that's still not clear to me, though (probably because I've had to watch the DVD so far on my computer and not on the TV), is whether Ennis reaches around to hold/stroke Jack (you know what/where!) in this scene as well.  I *think* he does--but not totally sure.
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Offline donnaread

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #77 on: Apr 30, 2006, 11:40 AM »
Quote from: welshwitch on Apr 29, 2006, 03:01 PM
I also, having entirely the wrong sort of mind, wonder what motivated Jake to hammer the ground as he did in the FNIT
I don't know what his motivation was, but I read somewhere that Ang Lee made the comment that he was very proud of Jake for doing that, because somehow it made the scene so realistic.  Apprently it was Jake's idea, not direction from Ang.   In my opinion, I think Jake was assuming that Jack would have been experiencing pain as well as pleasure.   I have a question, though...WHAT was Jack/Jake doing with Ennis/Heath's hand?  Was he pounding the ground with Heath's hand, or does he grab Heath's hand AFTER he pounds the ground?  One thing I've noticed is that Jake is pulling Heath down a little...and Jake is arching his back a his lips look like they touch (or almost touch) Heath's hand.  Anyone else notice this?

Donna
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Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #78 on: Apr 30, 2006, 11:56 AM »
I don't think Jack/Jake was holding Ennis/Heath's hand until after he pounds the ground - or at least, we don't see that. We don't see what Ennis is doing with his right hand until that moment, I don't think, we just see him clutching Jack's shirt with his left hand.
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He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

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Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #79 on: Apr 30, 2006, 12:41 PM »
Quote from: donnaread on Apr 30, 2006, 11:40 AM
[ One thing I've noticed is that Jake is pulling Heath down a little...and Jake is arching his back a his lips look like they touch (or almost touch) Heath's hand.  Anyone else notice this?

Donna



No I didn't notice that. I guess I have more "research" to do today.
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Offline shieldmaid

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #80 on: Apr 30, 2006, 01:43 PM »
Quote from: donnaread on Apr 30, 2006, 11:40 AM
Quote from: welshwitch on Apr 29, 2006, 03:01 PM
I also, having entirely the wrong sort of mind, wonder what motivated Jake to hammer the ground as he did in the FNIT
I don't know what his motivation was, but I read somewhere that Ang Lee made the comment that he was very proud of Jake for doing that, because somehow it made the scene so realistic.  Apprently it was Jake's idea, not direction from Ang.   In my opinion, I think Jake was assuming that Jack would have been experiencing pain as well as pleasure.   I have a question, though...WHAT was Jack/Jake doing with Ennis/Heath's hand?  Was he pounding the ground with Heath's hand, or does he grab Heath's hand AFTER he pounds the ground?  One thing I've noticed is that Jake is pulling Heath down a little...and Jake is arching his back a his lips look like they touch (or almost touch) Heath's hand.  Anyone else notice this?

Donna

I thought maybe, as I said above, that Jack was holding Ennis's right hand against himself--helping himself to climax as well perhaps??  But like I said, my computer screen is too dark for me to see very well.  I need to get some alone time with the TV so I can do some more in-depth research.  ;)
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Rennie51

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #81 on: Apr 30, 2006, 04:39 PM »
I agree with others who said they think Jack took Ennis' hand after he pounds the floor, mainly because Jack is hitting the floor so hard, I don't think Ennis is leaning over enough for his hand to reach adequately.  It looks like Ennis' hand would barely reach the floor at that point.  To me, Jack is hitting the floor in a mix of pain and pleasure and then takes Ennis' hand.  I'm not sure if he's trying to pull Ennis closer or he's just grasping his hand for the sake of holding onto him.   I wish this scene was brighter!  But even if it was, not everything is in the frame of the shot anyway, so we still might not know the details.  But I'm having fun trying to figure it out.  ;D
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Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #82 on: Apr 30, 2006, 04:50 PM »
ok guys as soon i'm home i'll get a screen cap and increase the brightness there!!!  ( ::) ::) ::) ::) another excuse to watch brokeback again!!)
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Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #83 on: Apr 30, 2006, 05:43 PM »
Quote from: Carlos_H82 on Apr 30, 2006, 04:50 PM
( ::) ::) ::) ::) another excuse to watch brokeback again!!)

You need an excuse? ;)
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He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

Charles Roven, accepting Heath's BAFTA.

This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

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Offline BBBOY

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #84 on: Apr 30, 2006, 05:43 PM »
Quote from: Rennie51 on Apr 30, 2006, 04:39 PM
I agree with others who said they think Jack took Ennis' hand after he pounds the floor, mainly because Jack is hitting the floor so hard, I don't think Ennis is leaning over enough for his hand to reach adequately.  It looks like Ennis' hand would barely reach the floor at that point.  To me, Jack is hitting the floor in a mix of pain and pleasure and then takes Ennis' hand.  I'm not sure if he's trying to pull Ennis closer or he's just grasping his hand for the sake of holding onto him.   I wish this scene was brighter!  But even if it was, not everything is in the frame of the shot anyway, so we still might not know the details.  But I'm having fun trying to figure it out.  ;D

Wow, after all the time I have watched the movie and DVD I never noticed this activity. Now I guess I'm gonna have to pop the DVD in again to check. Darn!  >:( :-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D
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There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken darken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #85 on: Apr 30, 2006, 05:48 PM »
Donna,

I did my "research" before and watched it several times. At first it did look like Jack lips are near Ennis' hand. Then when I watched it again it looked like he was grasping the blanket at that point. I will have to watch it again later when the kids won't walk in and out of the room. A thought struck me as I was watching the scene and I don't know if it was mentioned before or not but it seemed to me that Ennis would rather stay out there in the cold rather than voluntarily go into that tent. I mean he was freezing and he made no attempt to go in there until Jack yelled at him to get in the tent- he was so reluctant to give into his desire. That makes him going in to Jack during the SNIT on his own accord that much  sweeter to me.
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“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline NoReins

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #86 on: Apr 30, 2006, 06:08 PM »
Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Apr 30, 2006, 05:48 PM
A thought struck me as I was watching the scene and I don't know if it was mentioned before or not but it seemed to me that Ennis would rather stay out there in the cold rather than voluntarily go into that tent. I mean he was freezing and he made no attempt to go in there until Jack yelled at him to get in the tent- he was so reluctant to give into his desire. That makes him going in to Jack during the SNIT on his own accord that much  sweeter to me.

I hadn't thought about that before LJN, but you could be right. Either that, or he had some sense of Jack being attracted to him and he was afraid of what would happen if they both slept in the tent. Mind you, if it was that, he probably wouldn't have gone in even when Jack yelled at him.

'Course it could just have been that he didn't want to disturb Jack....

It's nice to know that something makes the SNIT even sweeter for you, though - I didn't think that was possible!
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He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

Christopher Nolan, accepting the Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe on Heath's behalf.

He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

Charles Roven, accepting Heath's BAFTA.

This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

Kim Ledger, accepting Heath's Oscar.

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #87 on: Apr 30, 2006, 06:29 PM »
Quote from: NoReins on Apr 30, 2006, 05:43 PM
Quote from: Carlos_H82 on Apr 30, 2006, 04:50 PM
( ::) ::) ::) ::) another excuse to watch brokeback again!!)

You need an excuse? ;)

Well no but if someone ask me i can say i'm searching for something, my dad is thinking in sending me to therapy i watch the movie every day in the morning like my daily break fast btw if i'm not mistaking he was holding Ennis' hand but hte screen cap would telll!!!!
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Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #88 on: May 01, 2006, 12:21 AM »


As promised it is the proof!!!! Ennis and jack were holding hand on that!!!!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 01:59 AM by Carlos_H82 »
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Offline keren_b

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Re: First Night In Tent
« Reply #89 on: May 01, 2006, 10:32 AM »
Quote from: Carlos_H82 on Apr 30, 2006, 06:29 PM
Quote from: NoReins on Apr 30, 2006, 05:43 PM
Quote from: Carlos_H82 on Apr 30, 2006, 04:50 PM
( ::) ::) ::) ::) another excuse to watch brokeback again!!)

You need an excuse? ;)

Well no but if someone ask me i can say i'm searching for something, my dad is thinking in sending me to therapy i watch the movie every day in the morning like my daily break fast btw if i'm not mistaking he was holding Ennis' hand but hte screen cap would telll!!!!

yeah, I can just imagine your dad's face when he walks in and finds you looking closely at the FNIT scene with all the breathing and the grunting and rewinding it over and over again... and he asks "Carlos what's that?" and you say "oh, I'm only searching for something"... ROTFLMAO!!!  Sorry, it just cracks me up...  ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)

As for the photo - finally it's not so dark, I can see something!! but it's not exactly clear... is he holding Ennis/Heath's hand? it seems to me more like he's grabbing his sleeve.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 02:24 PM by keren_b »
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The truth is... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.
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