Topic: Jack's love for Ennis

[tpe]

Let us never forget that Ennis quit jobs to spend time with Jack.

That was a very big deal in those days, especially when he had child support to pay.

Jack was just more sophisticated than Ennis in many ways.
He imagined a future that Ennis couldn't.

I have never doubted that Jack knew Ennis loved him.
That's why he never gave up on him.

I do think Jack knew that Ennis truly loved him.  That is why in his final act of moving on, I still persist in believing that it was not an act of betrayal.

[tpe]

I agree. As screwed up as the situation was Jack's life had more structure than Ennis. Jack was forced to walk a straight line in Texas with LD and Lureen. And he learned some valuable lessons behind it,though in  it he suffered . But suffering breeds character. Blessed with charm and the gift to communicate, along with a wonderful insight, Jack went after what he wanted with a vengence. He never gave up on getting some sort of settled life for himself and the ones he loved. He had his own fears but did'nt allow them to keep him from going after his dreams. I loved and admired that in him.
Some say he was a dreamer and had pipedreams  and all but had he lived he would have eventually gotten what he wanted. A sweet life with Ennis. Would never have given that up because his love was just that strong. 20 years waiting? No doubt about it.

Jack's was most certainly more outwardly passionate.  And it was most certainly fueled by dreams.

Jack is perhaps a realization of the Romantic Lover.

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

Jack's was most certainly more outwardly passionate.  And it was most certainly fueled by dreams.
Jack is perhaps a realization of the Romantic Lover.

I always say "He died trying"

[tpe]

I always say "He died trying"

The fact that he tried makes death bearable.

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

The fact that he tried makes death bearable.

I'll have to think that one through. Profound.

[tpe]

I'll have to think that one through. Profound.

Oh, JFT.  I am sure we all would never turn our backs on life even though we know that death is inevitable.  I think this was what Jack wanted -- to live fully.

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

Oh, JFT.  I am sure we all would never turn our backs on life even though we know that death is inevitable.  I think this was what Jack wanted -- to live fully.

Yes. It's Ennis I feel sorry for - playing safe all those years only to know what he had when it was gone.

[tpe]

Yes, it is really Ennis's tragedy, no?  But at least the memory of having possessed Jack and his love saved him.  It could have been worse, even if it could have not ended in Jack's death...

 

[aimi15]

These are heartbreaking posts. Yes i agree tpe - i feel it was Ennis's tragedy, and i don't think he did play it safe. I feel he felt himself caught between a rock and a hard place, and at the time he felt there was no other way for him. His life was never easy, i am trying to think of a moment without Jack, when he actually appeared truly happy and i can't.

Very sad that he only realised the extent of Jack's love for him when it was too late, but thank god he did. Can you imagine him receiving the deceased postcard and that being the end of the story? His life would have seemed even more hopeless. The power of Jack's love gave me some measure of hope at the end, and Ennis too.

Tearing up again... :\'(

[Mars]

Jack's was most certainly more outwardly passionate.  And it was most certainly fueled by dreams.

Jack is perhaps a realization of the Romantic Lover.

I have always thought Jack's character is very similar to romantic heroes of 19th century.

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

I have always thought Jack's character is very similar to romantic heroes of 19th century.

These days most films are either pulp comedy, romance, fantasy or violence.

When I first saw BBM I felt it was like nothing else I had ever seen. That is still true to some extent, but I now know that it is also a modern reworking of a very tried and tested film formula which was out of fassion - in the 30's they were called weepies.  Hope and sorrow alternate with a big tragic ending in weepies.

Weepies were in many ways the technological follow on to the romantic heroes of (pre)victorian novels. Of course many weepies were film versions of these same classics.

Its a strange fact that people seek melancolic emotional stimulation as well as laughter, but they do if its done well. And it gets no better than in BBM. Its good to see this sort of film back again.

[Mars]

People are attracted from strong feelings.....
It is almost the need of a catharsis and it is
the same winning formula of the Greek tragedy,
always Eros and Thanatos which interweave indissolubly.

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

People are attracted from strong feelings.....
It is almost the need of a catharsis and it is
the same winning formula of the Greek tragedy,
always Eros and Thanatos which interweave indissolubly.

Quite.

[tpe]

I have always thought Jack's character is very similar to romantic heroes of 19th century.

Yes, I do agree.  There is something starry-eyed about him and about his love for Ennis.

[tpe]

These days most films are either pulp comedy, romance, fantasy or violence.

When I first saw BBM I felt it was like nothing else I had ever seen. That is still true to some extent, but I now know that it is also a modern reworking of a very tried and tested film formula which was out of fassion - in the 30's they were called weepies.  Hope and sorrow alternate with a big tragic ending in weepies.

Weepies were in many ways the technological follow on to the romantic heroes of (pre)victorian novels. Of course many weepies were film versions of these same classics.

Its a strange fact that people seek melancolic emotional stimulation as well as laughter, but they do if its done well. And it gets no better than in BBM. Its good to see this sort of film back again.

Well said JFT.

I do think the beauty of this particular realization comes from its great restraint and subtlety.  In this, for example, Jack's love differs from many stock heroes of 19th Century Romanticism.  He is the Romantic hero/anti-hero in a more modern guise, I guess.

[tpe]

People are attracted from strong feelings.....
It is almost the need of a catharsis and it is
the same winning formula of the Greek tragedy,
always Eros and Thanatos which interweave indissolubly.

Also, beautifully said.

In its restraint and subtlety, there is indeed a classical refinement to this love.

[jacks_key]

The dozy embrace is perhaps the apex of Ennis's expression of love towards Jack.  The final bitter embrace is testament to Jack's endurance: it is love that struggles against the backdrop of a sickness verily unto death.

Since I'm new here, I'm reading all of the older threads...this one just slays me.  tpe, this post breaks my heart!

[tpe]

jacks_key, seeing this again also breaks my heart anew...

[manhattangirl]

Jack was love,  in spite of everything Jack knew how to love,  I guess that's why I lean little towards him.  In the film, he was the one that caught the scorn  Aguirre, and  didn't mentioned it Ennis.   In the bar scene where he tried to pick up the rodeo clown, he was rebuffed, and the look over his shoulders after him, broke my heart.  When he first met Lureen you could see he was searching for something when he danced with her, and the scene in the car made me laugh, but that was Jack, sensitive, needing, open and  wanting to give all the love and passion he had to someone.

Who did he want?  He wanted to give to Ennis, he was the one he truly loved, and wanted, but Ennis made it so hard for him.

Jack put himself out there for good or ill in world,  and Ennis couldn't or wouldn't understand this.  Jack's love was deep, it flowed freely to him, just like the rivers and streams of Brokeback.

Ennis at any time could drink of it, and be protected by Jack from all his fears.  I could see Jack telling Ennis , "Friend, been there, done that."  "I know what it's like out there."

[ksxks]

This is beautiful, manhattangirl.  You exactly describe Jack's love, his personality, in its many facets, with these examples.  He was indeed like the rivers, the wind, all that flows freely...except Ennis was so dammed up and Jack's love for him didn't find the free expression we wish it could have.  Heartbreaking.

This is no breaking news, but basically we see Ennis as the tragic character, but Jack was the one who suffered more -- a free spirit broken.  Ennis's was self-inflicted (well, except considering the way he grew up, and his father).

kathy

[LuvJackNasty]

Jack put himself out there for good or ill in world,  and Ennis couldn't or wouldn't understand this.  Jack's love was deep, it flowed freely to him, just like the rivers and streams of Brokeback.

Ennis at any time could drink of it, and be protected by Jack from all his fears.  I could see Jack telling Ennis , "Friend, been there, done that."  "I know what it's like out there."

 :\'( Beautifully put Manhattan Girl

[tpe]

Who did he want?  He wanted to give to Ennis, he was the one he truly loved, and wanted, but Ennis made it so hard for him.

Sometimes, the bitterness and hardships of love is the sweetest thing to a lover who dares to dream.  It is because the pain reminds him constantly of the depths of his own love.

[welshwitch]

There's a French proverb - in English "There is always one who kisses and one who turns the cheek."

Jack has a fatal inability to stop trying - those who have loved someone who doesn't love them as much or enough in return will know the way one thinks that if only one goes on loving, enduring, giving, in the end one's love will be recognised, until one has invested so much that one can't give up even if one wants to.

[jacks_key]

Yeah, in the "Dozy embrace" you can see the love in Jack's face and eyes when Ennis rode away.  I don't think he ever felt that happy and satisfied in his life.  Man!  That scene is so beautiful and gets me tearful all the time and I want to sing to Jack, "You look so good in love, you want him, it's easy to see..."

That scene absolutely destroys me, every time I see it.  I'm getting choked up right now here at work, just thinking about it.  It's just soooooooooo beautiful... :\'(

[tpe]

There's a French proverb - in English "There is always one who kisses and one who turns the cheek."

Jack has a fatal inability to stop trying - those who have loved someone who doesn't love them as much or enough in return will know the way one thinks that if only one goes on loving, enduring, giving, in the end one's love will be recognised, until one has invested so much that one can't give up even if one wants to.

That's Jack's tragic flaw.  And it's very much integral to his love for someone like Ennis.  IN the end, he may have given up hope, but I doubt that he ever gave up his love.

[ksxks]

There's a French proverb - in English "There is always one who kisses and one who turns the cheek."

Jack has a fatal inability to stop trying - those who have loved someone who doesn't love them as much or enough in return will know the way one thinks that if only one goes on loving, enduring, giving, in the end one's love will be recognised, until one has invested so much that one can't give up even if one wants to.

Well said, WW, as usual.  This is so tragic, yet as tpe said, part of Jack's feelings could be that the pain is of equal depth to the love.

So, Jack won't give up, and that is a beautiful part of his character.  But I think that Ennis did love Jack as much as Jack loved Ennis, except that Ennis didn't know how to feel with his whole self and give it freely, as Jack knew how to do...  Ennis deflected his pain; he warded it off in advance, to be sure he wouldn't get killed by his love.  Whereas Jack lived with his pain, maybe in equal measure to his love.

kathy

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

That scene absolutely destroys me, every time I see it.  I'm getting choked up right now here at work, just thinking about it.  It's just soooooooooo beautiful... :\'(

Try it on slow speed. Really.

[tizi17]

Try it on slow speed. Really.

... and add "spiritual" by charlie haden, as annie proulx did. i swear....

tizi

[tpe]

Well said, WW, as usual.  This is so tragic, yet as tpe said, part of Jack's feelings could be that the pain is of equal depth to the love.

So, Jack won't give up, and that is a beautiful part of his character.  But I think that Ennis did love Jack as much as Jack loved Ennis, except that Ennis didn't know how to feel with his whole self and give it freely, as Jack knew how to do...  Ennis deflected his pain; he warded it off in advance, to be sure he wouldn't get killed by his love.  Whereas Jack lived with his pain, maybe in equal measure to his love.

kathy

As I had said in another thread, it is best to see Jack's love for Ennis as the active part of the equation, balanced out by the more passive/defensive stance Ennis took in his love for Jack.  Jack I think realized this, and tried to bring Ennis to a more open acknowledgement of the bond between the two of them.  In some sense, he failed during his lifetime; it is ironic that it was in death that Ennis openly acknowledged to himself that it was Jack he loved above everything else in life.

THis is what I meant when I said before that Jack's love for Ennis is a form of liebestod.

[tizi17]

As I had said in another thread, it is best to see Jack's love for Ennis as the active part of the equation, balanced out by the more passive/defensive stance Ennis took in his love for Jack.  Jack I think realized this, and tried to bring Ennis to a more open acknowledgement of the bond between the two of them.  In some sense, he failed during his lifetime; it is ironic that it was in death that Ennis openly acknowledged to himself that it was Jack he loved above everything else in life.

THis is what I meant when I said before that Jack's love for Ennis is a form of liebestod.

please do explain this to me. being of german language i would like to know what it means fo renglish speaking people - it must have a different significance than in german..
to die of love or to die for love or to die because of love or to die for lack of love...