Author Topic: Double Meanings in BBM Lines (Read 405127 times)

aintfoolin · « **Reply #300 on:** May 31, 2007, 02:52 PM »

I am thinking of the first postcard Jack sent. It said it's "long over due" leading me to believe that Jack thought about Ennis very often in those 4 years apart. Almost as if Jack , no matter what or who he got involved with, Including Lureen, he was going to see Ennis Del Mar again when all was said and done. Then Ennis responds with "You Bet" thats all. Maybe Ennis is saying Jack , you are betting I'm still in love with you? That Jack was just taking a chance after 4 years that Ennis had never forgot him. It is both discreet but to the point. As Jack "bet" , he was right. His confession in the hotel room the he did'nt know they were gonna "get into this again "was an obvious lie as he admitted to Ennis. That reunion kiss from Ennis told Jack he "bet" right as he soon found out.! My thoughts

jackster · « **Reply #301 on:** May 31, 2007, 07:48 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on May 31, 2007, 02:52 PM

I am thinking of the first postcard Jack sent. It said it's "long over due" leading me to believe that Jack thought about Ennis very often in those 4 years apart . . . . . . Maybe Ennis is saying Jack, you are betting I'm still in love with you? . . .

Ain’t- I think your right about the “long over due” – a coy way Jack had of letting Ennis know that he’d wished he’d written earlier (because he’d been thinking about him all that time) without getting sentimental (i.e. queer).

Don't know where your located, but the “You Bet” reply is a common usage by common folks from the Allegany’s thru the Rockies. It’s an emphatic agreement on a sure thing, so it’s a bit harder for me to read any “betting” or wager meaning into this. Poor Ennis, being so “vocabulary disadvantaged” probably couldn’t think of anything better to express his eagerness.

Just MHO.

jackster · « **Reply #302 on:** May 31, 2007, 07:59 PM »

“ . . . am pretty good with a can opener though”

Is Jack able to open the “can” that is Ennis? Emotions, fears, loves, all bottled up, sealed inside waiting to get out if only the right person with the right opener would come along and set it free. It’s not Alma, it’s not Cassie, was Jack able to use his professed skill to open up Ennis? Or did he just make a mess of it as he did with the can a beans?

FlwrChild · « **Reply #303 on:** May 31, 2007, 08:10 PM »

Oh, I like that jackster.

And it may have turned out a bit messy, but I bet it was still worth the trouble because it fed their souls in a way nothing else could.

What a great movie. What a great thread.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #304 on:** May 31, 2007, 08:23 PM »

Ditto FC

I like that interpretation Jackster- never thought of it that way.

ksxks · « **Reply #305 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:11 PM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on May 31, 2007, 08:23 PM

Ditto FC I like that interpretation Jackster- never thought of it that way.

Me, too, jackster -- that's a good one. Perfectly apt to Jack getting Ennis to open up. Of course, being Jack, he says he's good at it (like he says ain't no mare's gonna throw him) but then we see his clumsiness. He's a brave man, though -- not afraid to try even though his clumsiness might be seen (shooting, all of it) and he just keeps on keeping on, powered by love and dreams. (He sure wasn't clumsy either FNIT or SNIT, though.)

Okay, then there is this, following up on the clumsy use of can opener scene:

Ennis: "Want some of this hot water?" Jack: "It's all yours."

I'm not that good at this -- someone else have a go at that one?

kathy

manhattangirl · « **Reply #306 on:** Jun 01, 2007, 05:04 AM »

I don't know if goes to the topic:

But remember when Ennis was thrown from the horse, and lost the provisions. When Jack wanted to take care of the "food situation", he wanted to shoot one of the sheep, but Ennis was dead set against it. "I"ll stick with beans". Jack said, "I won't" in defiant tone.

Ennis didn't want to do anything against rules, he felt they couldn't change it so they had stand it, He was afraid of getting caught by Aguirre. Jack wasn't standing for it, he was willing to take the chance, they didn't have to eat just beans.

Isn't this what was going on in their relationship?

Sorry if this was already bought up.

jackster · « **Reply #307 on:** Jun 01, 2007, 05:30 AM »

Quote from: manhattangirl on Jun 01, 2007, 05:04 AM

"I"ll stick with beans". - "I won't"
Isn't this what was going on in their relationship?

I've always considered these two lines, only six words, to be a metaphor for the entire relationship from start to finish.

welshwitch · « **Reply #308 on:** Jun 01, 2007, 06:16 AM »

As "no more beans" can be seen as Jack's way of saying that he doesn't intend sticking to the rules any more - is this the point where he decides to go for it with Ennis?

My favorite quotation, "See you in the morning"., also has deeper meanings IMO. This is Ennis's way of saying that he'll be there when Jack comes, as in fact in future he always is, that there is a tomorrow.

And it's what lovers say - when you part and want to make sure that it's only temporary.The irony in the movie, of course, is that after this Jack doesn't see Ennis again.

It's also a reminder, given where it's placed, that we should make the most of today, because tomorrow is something we can never make rely on, whatever promises we make. Carpe diem again.

FlwrChild · « **Reply #309 on:** Jun 01, 2007, 09:13 AM »

Wow. You guys are killing me.

And I completely agree with the 'no more beans' interpretations.

And welshwitch, what you said is why I always get this sense of desperation when Ennis says "See you in the morning." If only we knew which moments in life we really need to seize while they're happening.

JT · « **Reply #310 on:** Jun 05, 2007, 12:59 PM »

"There's never ever enough time. Never Enough."

I don't know why but I always see this as a precurser to Jack's demise.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #311 on:** Jun 05, 2007, 03:30 PM »

"I doubt there's a philly that can throw me" Could Jack be admitting gayness? Philly , in my neck of the woods it's a female horse, but could be reference to a woman too. In any case he was wrong. He got thrown by both the mare and Lureen.

FNIT:, Ennis- " What are you doin"? ---I like the direction your goin ! Obvioulsy he KNOWS what Jack is doing! Comon Ennis , you can't fool Mother Nature son. What's with the mock stuggle? LOL

Jack and the color blue... Blue eyes, blue shirts, blue tent, blue parka, steals Ennis's blue and white shirt? blue jeans, blue trucks What up here?Is he saying Ennis likes him in blue? Ennis even drives a blue and white truck!What the hell....?

jackster · « **Reply #312 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 04:11 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jun 05, 2007, 03:30 PM

"I doubt there's a philly that can throw me" Could Jack be admitting gayness?

Don't know about coming out here, maybe. Always thought this was just more JFT bravado, like bein' "pretty good with a can opener" (not!). But the SS horse descriptions and choices are interesting, Jack picks a "bay mare" and Ennis "a big chestnut" which I've assumed is a gelding. Curious connection and association with the boys, Jack picks a female, Ennis takes an emasculated male, hmmm . . . I don't know enough about horses or the horse world to know if this is significant in any real way.

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jun 05, 2007, 03:30 PM

Ennis- " What are you doin"? . . . What's with the mock stuggle? LOL

Well, you know, Ennis thinks he's a straight boy, so he's gotta put up some sort 'a struggle. 'Course it don't last long . . .

aintfoolin · « **Reply #313 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 05:17 AM »

Jackster, why do I feel I have to whisper all of a sudden?

....I find your comments about the horses very interesting indeed ! Any significance? It says alot about both of them and I'd say but there maybe children present. And as for Ennis's *mock stuggle, ? Well we Know he shoots straight anyway. Poor boy did'nt realize which side his bread was butterd on. Jack was just tryin to help him out a little.You understand I'm sure. lol

Don't know if this has been said, but what about Signal, Wy. It's where Jack and Ennis met. Maybe they both thought of this place often because of what it represents.A signal of hope and love.

jackster · « **Reply #314 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 05:25 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jun 06, 2007, 05:17 AM

Jack was just tryin to help him out a little. You understand . . .

You bet!

JT · « **Reply #315 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 10:11 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jun 05, 2007, 03:30 PM

"I doubt there's a philly that can throw me" Could Jack be admitting gayness? Philly , in my neck of the woods it's a female horse, but could be reference to a woman too. In any case he was wrong. He got thrown by both the mare and Lureen.

In both cases, they got lucky.

tpe · « **Reply #316 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 11:46 AM »

Quote from: jackster on May 31, 2007, 07:59 PM

“ . . . am pretty good with a can opener though”

Is Jack able to open the “can” that is Ennis? Emotions, fears, loves, all bottled up, sealed inside waiting to get out if only the right person with the right opener would come along and set it free. It’s not Alma, it’s not Cassie, was Jack able to use his professed skill to open up Ennis? Or did he just make a mess of it as he did with the can a beans?

I echo the other in saying thanks, jackster. Indeed, I had not thought of it this way... Really excellent.

tpe · « **Reply #317 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 12:12 PM »

Quote from: ksxks on May 31, 2007, 11:11 PM

Okay, then there is this, following up on the clumsy use of can opener scene:

Ennis: "Want some of this hot water?" Jack: "It's all yours."

I'm not that good at this -- someone else have a go at that one?

kathy

kathy, I had the same thought, actually. Especially the way Jack said it: "It's all yours." I don't know if this was intentional, but it did strike me as a double-edged exchange...

tpe · « **Reply #318 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 12:17 PM »

Quote from: manhattangirl on Jun 01, 2007, 05:04 AM

I don't know if goes to the topic:

But remember when Ennis was thrown from the horse, and lost the provisions. When Jack wanted to take care of the "food situation", he wanted to shoot one of the sheep, but Ennis was dead set against it. "I"ll stick with beans". Jack said, "I won't" in defiant tone.

Ennis didn't want to do anything against rules, he felt they couldn't change it so they had stand it, He was afraid of getting caught by Aguirre. Jack wasn't standing for it, he was willing to take the chance, they didn't have to eat just beans.

Isn't this what was going on in their relationship?

Sorry if this was already bought up.

manhattangirl, this is certainly not out of topic. In fact, I do think someone also touched on this in a very similar way, so you are not the only one who read a double meaning in this exchange. Not so sure if it was posted in this thread, so it is good that you bring it up here...

tpe · « **Reply #319 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 12:18 PM »

Quote from: jackster on Jun 01, 2007, 05:30 AM

I've always considered these two lines, only six words, to be a metaphor for the entire relationship from start to finish.

Exactly!

tpe · « **Reply #320 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 12:19 PM »

Quote from: JT on Jun 05, 2007, 12:59 PM

"There's never ever enough time. Never Enough."

I don't know why but I always see this as a precurser to Jack's demise.

...in the sense that he probably had a feeling that he did not have that much time.

tpe · « **Reply #321 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 12:23 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jun 05, 2007, 03:30 PM

"I doubt there's a philly that can throw me" Could Jack be admitting gayness? Philly , in my neck of the woods it's a female horse, but could be reference to a woman too. In any case he was wrong. He got thrown by both the mare and Lureen.

I never thought of it this way, but I did get a feeling that there was an underlying meaning here. I interpreted it as Jack saying that he always got what he wanted through persistence.

Quote

FNIT:, Ennis- " What are you doin"? ---I like the direction your goin ! Obvioulsy he KNOWS what Jack is doing! Comon Ennis , you can't fool Mother Nature son. What's with the mock stuggle? LOL

He certainly did know, and it was appropriate that Jack gave him no answer.

welshwitch · « **Reply #322 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 02:08 PM »

You could take the "filly" remark as proleptic irony too - there wasn't a woman that could throw Jack, but there was a man, though he didn't realise it.

zephK · « **Reply #323 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 08:02 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jun 06, 2007, 02:08 PM

You could take the "filly" remark as proleptic irony too - there wasn't a woman that could throw Jack, but there was a man, though he didn't realise it.

ksxks · « **Reply #324 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 11:12 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jun 06, 2007, 05:17 AM

Jackster, why do I feel I have to whisper all of a sudden? ....I find your comments about the horses very interesting indeed ! Any significance? It says alot about both of them and I'd say but there maybe children present. And as for Ennis's *mock stuggle, ? Well we Know he shoots straight anyway. Poor boy did'nt realize which side his bread was butterd on. Jack was just tryin to help him out a little.You understand I'm sure. lol

Don't know if this has been said, but what about Signal, Wy. It's where Jack and Ennis met. Maybe they both thought of this place often because of what it represents.A signal of hope and love.

Jackster's horse analogies quite interesting, yes.

As for Signal, aintfoolin, there is also "signal" in the sense of "gaydar."

kathy

ksxks · « **Reply #325 on:** Jun 06, 2007, 11:18 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jun 06, 2007, 02:08 PM

You could take the "filly" remark as proleptic irony too - there wasn't a woman that could throw Jack, but there was a man, though he didn't realise it.

Aha -- this hasn't been pointed out in just this way. This is so true.

kathy

welshwitch · « **Reply #326 on:** Jun 07, 2007, 12:30 AM »

"Signal" as an adjective also means distinguished or conspicuous. Doesn't seem to apply to the place as we see it in the movie!

The line that makes me smile as a sort of double entendre is Jack's "You goin' to do this again next summer?" I know he means working on Brokeback, but it also seems to suggest spending time with Ennis doing things other than herding sheep. Then ennis says that he's getting married, and that makes me think there's a hidden sense of this being his declaration that he's going back to being "normal", not "queer". In other words to me this exchange is another version of the summer's being a one-shot thing to Ennis.

tpe · « **Reply #327 on:** Jun 07, 2007, 12:40 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jun 07, 2007, 12:30 AM

The line that makes me smile as a sort of double entendre is Jack's "You goin' to do this again next summer?" I know he means working on Brokeback, but it also seems to suggest spending time with Ennis doing things other than herding sheep. Then ennis says that he's getting married, and that makes me think there's a hidden sense of this being his declaration that he's going back to being "normal", not "queer". In other words to me this exchange is another version of the summer's being a one-shot thing to Ennis.

Well said, WW. Even Jack's look when he asked this questions bespeaks an implied (and understood) meaning!

fairy · « **Reply #328 on:** Jun 07, 2007, 01:03 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jun 07, 2007, 12:40 PM

Well said, WW. Even Jack's look when he asked this questions bespeaks an implied (and understood) meaning!

yeah
ennis can't accept his love for jack...only at the end he'll understand his mistakes. On my opinion he says he'll marry Alma because he doesn't want to live like a queer and he gives up happiness with Jack. But he repents...I swear...

jackster · « **Reply #329 on:** Jun 07, 2007, 03:00 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jun 07, 2007, 12:30 AM

The line that makes me smile as a double entendre is Jack's "You goin' to do this again next summer?" . . . . Then Ennis says that he's getting married, and . . . there's a hidden sense of this being his declaration that he's going back to being "normal", not "queer". To me this exchange is another version of the summer's being a one-shot thing to Ennis.

Exactly. To me this heartbreaking exchange is also another entirely different, but every bit as effective, version of stating their emotional desires and fears as the "I'll stick with beans . . . . I won't" exchange at the beginning of the summer. The way Annie has subtly twisted and reversed the roles here, Jack now wanting to do the same again, Ennis now (says) wants the change, it's an amazing bit of writers craftsmanship.

Then, of course, as it was Ennis who shot the elk to feed their stomachs, it becomes Jack's turn to write the postcard to feed their hearts. Gee whiz, is she GOOD!!