Author Topic: Flashback scene - spoiler (Read 118133 times)

tpe · « **Reply #120 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 07:07 AM »

The flashback scene is the summation of what Jack thought to be the closest he and Ennis ever came to that perfect moment. It was not perfect, but it was as far as they could go.

Realizing this was the signpost for Jack to move on. I think this is what Jake referred to when he said "There comes a time...", although he was probably speaking more broadly, perhaps more personally.

welshwitch · « **Reply #121 on:** Jul 27, 2006, 11:24 AM »

It sounds like experience talking, doesn't it? But he's right - if you get to a point where there's nowhere else to go together, you may have to go in different directions. In a way they've been diverging ever since that moment of togetherness, and before they left the mountain for the first time, i think.

Mars · « **Reply #122 on:** Jul 30, 2006, 07:01 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jul 27, 2006, 07:07 AM

The flashback scene is the summation of what Jack thought to be the closest he and Ennis ever came to that perfect moment. It was not perfect, but it was as far as they could go.

Realizing this was the signpost for Jack to move on. I think this is what Jake referred to when he said "There comes a time...", although he was probably speaking more broadly, perhaps more personally.

Yes it is. I do love that scene the most.

And I love the following one when Jack is so bitterly marked
on his face.The contraposition of the two scenes is a real
masterpiece for me.And it makes a lot of sense,following
Tpe's explanation.

welshwitch · « **Reply #123 on:** Jul 30, 2006, 07:56 AM »

By this point, too they have enough history in common to make possible a clear comparison between then and now. If what is shown in the flashback was their happiest, least complicated moment, the final scene is their nadir.I suppose it would be possible to go on - Ennis evidently thinks so or he wouldn't send the card - but the relationship would have to be different. You can't call back yesterday or unsay things that have been said; each of them has seen into their own depths of misery and those of the other. That knowledge would color any future meetings.

tpe · « **Reply #124 on:** Jul 30, 2006, 03:21 PM »

Thanks mars and welshwitch. The apex and nadir of their love. In the first, he is contented. In the second, he will let him go.

The flashback scene is most precious because it is shown at the very moment when hope is dying. A dying man supposedly sees his entire life pass by in extremis. For Jack, recalling the moment of that embrace suffices. It has the weight of a lifetime.

Short Leash · « **Reply #125 on:** Oct 22, 2006, 05:21 PM »

I thought the flashback scene about the last night they were together on Brokeback mountain, before they knew it would be their last night together. With Jack standing near the campfire that would have been their last meal together, and then it was time for Ennis to go back to the sheep. Ennis say's, "See you in the morning", The next morning would have been the scene when Ennis cane out of the tent running back and forth because it had snowed. I think there was something symbolic about the difference in saying goodbye back on BBM, not knowing it would be their last night together and the sadness Jack was now feeling, wondering if this might be their last time together.

greenfrog · « **Reply #126 on:** Oct 22, 2006, 07:46 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jul 30, 2006, 03:21 PM

Thanks mars and welshwitch. The apex and nadir of their love. In the first, he is contented. In the second, he will let him go.

The flashback scene is most precious because it is shown at the very moment when hope is dying. A dying man supposedly sees his entire life pass by in extremis. For Jack, recalling the moment of that embrace suffices. It has the weight of a lifetime.

:\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Short Leash · « **Reply #127 on:** Oct 23, 2006, 11:02 AM »

My previous post is more about pinpointing the actual flashback scene to a specific day. I guess I veered off into what I thought was going through Jacks mind but, it's not so much about the symbolism of the two scenes but, rather about placing the actual flashback scene in the movie. The first time I watched the movie I thought it was some random scene of some night before Ennis went back to the sheep and saying "see you in the morning" but, by about the 3rd time watching, it hit me that it must have been their last night before the big snow. So, I wonder, if they were to put that flashback scene in sequence in the movie, if the very next scene would be the next morning when Ennis came out of the tent and saw all the snow, and came down to the camp where Jack was taking everything down. Which I think is symbolic in itself.

Quote

There is that hackneyed saying that still speaks true to many of us: "If you love somebody, set him/her free."
I think this is what Jack did. It is an expression of the greatest love.

After reading these last few quotes, I don't know who originally said it,but I get it now. For me, this is the answer. It makes the whole movie even more sad even more beautiful, if that's even possible. Before just now, I wasn't sure if Jack had really quit Ennis, but now, I believe he did but, not because it was hard on himself but, because he saw what it was doing to Ennis and he loved him more than himself. Whew, I'm a mess now. :'( :'(

tpe · « **Reply #128 on:** Oct 24, 2006, 07:27 AM »

Hello Short Leash. I am not sure if we can really say when the flashback scene actually occured as both the short story and film are silent as to when this happened. There is nothing to discount what you say, but there is also nothing that explicitly states that this is the case. Without a solid reference as to when the flashback scene happened, we can choose whatever plausible time we would like to project the said event.

In the long run, I don't really think it matters very much when the flashback scene occured. The important thing is that this was what Jack remembered and cherished for the next 20 years.

welshwitch · « **Reply #129 on:** Oct 24, 2006, 09:49 AM »

this scene affects me, and others in the same way probably, because it's all about wanting to be loved and wnating to find someone who completes you. The ss says, and the movie implies, that this is unrelated to sexual desire - it's not a physical but a psychological and emotional effect.

Physical atraction fades like physical beauty; for me this feeling is what unites them, what lasts and keeps them together for twenty years, the love that will never grow old.

welshwitch · « **Reply #130 on:** Oct 24, 2006, 09:52 AM »

There's also a stillness about it, which is in great contrast both with the scene that precedes it and with many of the other scenes on the mountain, when they were herding the sheep, working ion the camp-site, fetching and carrying. So it works in dramatic/cinematic terms as well.

Short Leash · « **Reply #131 on:** Oct 24, 2006, 10:12 AM »

Quote

Ang was clever here because if we had seen the 'sleeping on you feet' embrace whilst they were on the mountain then the shock and impact of the reunion kiss would have been lessened considerably

This is so true!

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #132 on:** Oct 24, 2006, 01:32 PM »

Quote

Ang was clever here because if we had seen the 'sleeping on you feet' embrace whilst they were on the mountain then the shock and impact of the reunion kiss would have been lessened considerably

I'm not sure who made this quote, but I completely agree! Most of us felt there something there between them in addition to friendship before they left the mountain. For me it was more on Jack's part. Of course Ennis's greeting of Jack in the reunion scene really blew me away. The placing of this flashback scene was pure genius.

Short Leash · « **Reply #133 on:** Oct 24, 2006, 08:36 PM »

Quote

pure genius.

Amen to that!

tpe · « **Reply #134 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 07:50 AM »

For me, this is without question the most beautiful and moving passage/scene in the entire short story/movie.

What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis’s breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight, and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still usable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, “Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you’re sleepin on your feet like a horse,” and gave Jack a shake, a push, and went off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words “See you tomorrow,” and the horse’s shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.

Proulx, "Brokeback Mountain" (1997 version)

Twisted · « **Reply #135 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:09 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Oct 25, 2006, 07:50 AM

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.

Proulx, "Brokeback Mountain" (1997 version)

:\'( :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #136 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:20 AM »

I had to take a break from BBM-related posts after posting the above. It kills me to think about this scene. It reduces me to tears.

Twisted · « **Reply #137 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:23 AM »

And that pic says it all. Even if they will see next day, there's something sad in the pic, like it's the last time.

And it's even more painful to watch the scene, when you see all the moves and sad faces and all.. :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #138 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:31 AM »

Quote from: Twisted on Oct 25, 2006, 08:23 AM

And that pic says it all. Even if they will see next day, there's something sad in the pic, like it's the last time.

And it's even more painful to watch the scene, when you see all the moves and sad faces and all.. :\'(

I have yet to watch this scene on dvd at home. The last time I watched it was at the Waukegan showing during the BBM get-together in Chicago. But I keep it in my heart.

Twisted · « **Reply #139 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:33 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Oct 25, 2006, 08:31 AM

Quote from: Twisted on Oct 25, 2006, 08:23 AM
And that pic says it all. Even if they will see next day, there's something sad in the pic, like it's the last time.

And it's even more painful to watch the scene, when you see all the moves and sad faces and all.. :\'(

I have yet to watch this scene on dvd. The last time I watched it was at the Waukegan showing during the BBM get-together in Chicago. But I keep it in my heart.

I think that we all will. It's painful to watch, i admit that, but there's still lot of love in this scene, even more than every kiss scene, IMO.

tpe · « **Reply #140 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:38 AM »

This is why I have second thoughts describing it as a favorite scene. It is so beautiful and so moving, but the feeling can sometimes border on pain, no? I would rather describe it as one of the GREAT scenes in the movie.

As for the short story, I do think that the passage is the most perfectly written part of the entire piece. It is great writing.

Twisted · « **Reply #141 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:43 AM »

Yes. When i see the scene, i feel pain in my heart, because i can't help to think, why it couln't be just like that, always.

tpe · « **Reply #142 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 08:48 AM »

The way the movie embedded it within the climactic point of the last meeting was a great realization of Proulx's story. This is one of Ang Lee's master strokes. It gains in power and depth. As I have said before, it is (for me) the heart and soul of the entire movie/story.

dodoLea · « **Reply #143 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 11:07 AM »

This is my favorite scene too, both in the movie and in the ss...the more i see it, the more I like it.A so brief but so intense scene...so many conflicting emotions.After the first visions, it's become more emotional, almost painful,Knowing that it's their last them meeting,I guess.After so many years,a so "romantic" memory ,melancholy , so well described...sometimes I don't succeded in seeing over this scene.

carbyville · « **Reply #144 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 01:30 PM »

There was a time when I thought that the scene prior (the final trip/fight) to the flashback was what made me sob. I love the dozy embrace so much (also my favorite scene, as it is for others) and I wanted to watch it without having to see the painful final meeting for Jack and Ennis. I skipped over everything just to get to this flashback scene and still found myself sobbing. That was when I realized that it wasn't the final meeting that upset me so much (even though it still did), it was the flashback scene that made the tears worse. It is one of the most beautiful and bittersweet moments I have ever seen in any movie right from the tenderness we get to see from Ennis, the sway, the humming, Jack getting lost in the moment and finally that look of sheer adoration as Ennis rides off. Incredible.

tpe · « **Reply #145 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 04:10 PM »

Quote from: dodoLea on Oct 25, 2006, 11:07 AM

This is my favorite scene too, both in the movie and in the ss...the more i see it, the more I like it.A so brief but so intense scene...so many conflicting emotions.After the first visions, it's become more emotional, almost painful,Knowing that it's their last them meeting,I guess.After so many years,a so "romantic" memory ,melancholy , so well described...sometimes I don't succeded in seeing over this scene.

It is all too brief...

It is beautiful, but because of the context of the last meeting, the beauty is married to sadness. It is Jack's valediction. This is how he liked to be remembered: safe in the arms of his beloved.

tpe · « **Reply #146 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 04:14 PM »

Quote from: carbyville on Oct 25, 2006, 01:30 PM

There was a time when I thought that the scene prior (the final trip/fight) to the flashback was what made me sob. I love the dozy embrace so much (also my favorite scene, as it is for others) and I wanted to watch it without having to see the painful final meeting for Jack and Ennis. I skipped over everything just to get to this flashback scene and still found myself sobbing. That was when I realized that it wasn't the final meeting that upset me so much (even though it still did), it was the flashback scene that made the tears worse. It is one of the most beautiful and bittersweet moments I have ever seen in any movie right from the tenderness we get to see from Ennis, the sway, the humming, Jack getting lost in the moment and finally that look of sheer adoration as Ennis rides off. Incredible.

You have the right word, carbyville: bittersweet. The peace and contentment is interwoven with sadness and leave-taking. It is the fabric of their love.

greenfrog · « **Reply #147 on:** Oct 25, 2006, 10:06 PM »

Quote from: carbyville on Oct 25, 2006, 01:30 PM

There was a time when I thought that the scene prior (the final trip/fight) to the flashback was what made me sob. I love the dozy embrace so much (also my favorite scene, as it is for others) and I wanted to watch it without having to see the painful final meeting for Jack and Ennis. I skipped over everything just to get to this flashback scene and still found myself sobbing. That was when I realized that it wasn't the final meeting that upset me so much (even though it still did), it was the flashback scene that made the tears worse. It is one of the most beautiful and bittersweet moments I have ever seen in any movie right from the tenderness we get to see from Ennis, the sway, the humming, Jack getting lost in the moment and finally that look of sheer adoration as Ennis rides off. Incredible.

Beautiful post Carby :\'( :\'( :\'(

jackster · « **Reply #148 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 07:18 AM »

Quote from: carbyville on Oct 25, 2006, 01:30 PM

There was a time when I thought that the scene prior (the final trip/fight) to the flashback was what made me sob. I love the dozy embrace so much (also my favorite scene, as it is for others) and I wanted to watch it without having to see the painful final meeting for Jack and Ennis. I skipped over everything just to get to this flashback scene and still found myself sobbing. That was when I realized that it wasn't the final meeting that upset me so much (even though it still did), it was the flashback scene that made the tears worse. It is one of the most beautiful and bittersweet moments I have ever seen in any movie right from the tenderness we get to see from Ennis, the sway, the humming, Jack getting lost in the moment and finally that look of sheer adoration as Ennis rides off. Incredible.

There's a wonderful slo-mo YouTube posting of this scene with the Spiritual music that Annie Proulx said she listened to over and over again when trying to get the words right for this great scene. The music is fantastic and can be found on iTunes, but you have to buy the album (worth it).

Check it out:

Jackster

tizi17 · « **Reply #149 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 07:52 AM »

jackster - thank you so much for this! i have seen so many youtube films about BBM, but you can never see all of them... wonderful, that music! she is great woman this annie, isn't she? she must have felt love so much in her life to be able to paint such pictures...

BTW back to the scene: i always doubted, but in this slow motion it seems true to me: jack kisses ennis' hand, right? tell me i am...

tizi

Author Topic: Flashback scene - spoiler (Read 118133 times)

greenfrog

greenfrog