Topic: motel room scene

[shieldmaid]

Hi, everyone--

I checked the topic list and I know there was already a thread on the motel scene, but it was mostly about whether this would have been too public for Ennis, or exactly how they were able to get a room.  I'm more interested in talking about the scene itself--specifically, what it tells us about each of them.  Although it's a pretty short scene, I feel like it really reveals some important qualities of Jack and of Ennis--and about what the nature of their future relationship is likely to be.

A few thoughts: Jack is holding Ennis, and keeps turning his head so that his lips are in Ennis's hair.  Ennis is lying on Jack's chest, holding/rubbing his forearm as they talk.  Both men are smoking, though we see Ennis taking more puffs than Jack, mostly because Jack has a lot more to say.

So what do you think about how this scene gives us insight into their relationship?  What clues are we meant to pick up on here?

[tpe]

Hi, everyone--

I checked the topic list and I know there was already a thread on the motel scene, but it was mostly about whether this would have been too public for Ennis, or exactly how they were able to get a room.  I'm more interested in talking about the scene itself--specifically, what it tells us about each of them.  Although it's a pretty short scene, I feel like it really reveals some important qualities of Jack and of Ennis--and about what the nature of their future relationship is likely to be.

A few thoughts: Jack is holding Ennis, and keeps turning his head so that his lips are in Ennis's hair.  Ennis is lying on Jack's chest, holding/rubbing his forearm as they talk.  Both men are smoking, though we see Ennis taking more puffs than Jack, mostly because Jack has a lot more to say.

So what do you think about how this scene gives us insight into their relationship?  What clues are we meant to pick up on here?

To me, the most telling and exquisite detail is how Ennis communicates to Jack by tugging the arm that embraces him.

Jack:"Old Brokeback got us good."  By way of response, Ennis tugs at Jack's arms.

It is a most eloquent affirmation.  No words needed.

[Hanna]

the way ennis "shivers" after jack asked "and what about you?" ennis just mumbles something, and it always makes me sad that jack cannot see ennis' face in that little moment, cause it's all said in it, all his overwhelming feelings he's not able to show or talj about.

[stacp]

To me, this scene just confirms for them, and us, that they are the love of each other's loves.  Ennis is letting Jack hold him, surrendering to Jack again, not a small feat for Ennis.   This mirrors the SNIT.   There is a comfort level there that we don't see when they are with any other people in their lives.  To them, it feels right, like they belong in each other's arms.  The body language just says it all; how much in love and excited they are to be together.  I love Ennis' arm nudges and Jack smelling Ennis hair, like he can't get enough of Ennis.  Then, at the end of the scene when Ennis mournfully says "there's nothing we can do.  Making a living's about all I got time for," he closes his eyes tight and takes a long drag of his cigarette.  You can see how painful it is to him that he cannot be with Jack.  I just love this scene!   

[welshwitch]

There's also the fact that it's all in close-up, parallelling their closeness, and there are no distractions from the two of them together as we rarely see them.
I just love the little smile on Jake's face when he says, "Four years. Damn." You can hear his sudden realisation of how much time they're wasted and his surprise that after such a long interval they're back to where they were. That's love, too - being able to stand separation and absence then pick up the threads with no hesitation.

[tpe]

Beautiful thoughts everyone!

The setting is sordid.  But they strike me as almost virginal is this scene (sorry if this sounds quixotic).  You have a sense as if they give their bodies to each other for the very first time.

As much as this is a very "sexy" scene, I cannot help thinking of it as a truly poigniant one.

Their love dominates everything -- even the sex.  You see them physically content -- but definitely wanting more on a deeper level.

[shieldmaid]

Beautiful thoughts everyone!

The setting is sordid.  But they strike me as almost virginal is this scene (sorry if this sounds quixotic).  You have a sense as if they give their bodies to each other for the very first time.

As much as this is a very "sexy" scene, I cannot help thinking of it as a truly poigniant one.

Their love dominates everything -- even the sex.  You see them physically content -- but definitely wanting more on a deeper level.

I never thought of using the word "virginal" before, tpe, but I think it works perfectly here.  After all, this is the first time they've been together in 4 years, and although they've both got wives, it's pretty clear they've been thinking of each other throughout those relationships.  They are rediscovering the landscapes of one another's bodies and minds . . . coming back to the place where they worship again.

[tpe]

Beautiful thoughts everyone!

The setting is sordid.  But they strike me as almost virginal is this scene (sorry if this sounds quixotic).  You have a sense as if they give their bodies to each other for the very first time.

As much as this is a very "sexy" scene, I cannot help thinking of it as a truly poigniant one.

Their love dominates everything -- even the sex.  You see them physically content -- but definitely wanting more on a deeper level.

I never thought of using the word "virginal" before, tpe, but I think it works perfectly here.  After all, this is the first time they've been together in 4 years, and although they've both got wives, it's pretty clear they've been thinking of each other throughout those relationships.  They are rediscovering the landscapes of one another's bodies and minds . . . coming back to the place where they worship again.

They are rediscovering the landscapes of one another's bodies and minds . . . coming back to the place where they worship again.

So wonderfully said.  It is a rediscovery.  What was lost has been found.

[hpv]

Two words:
 Jacks dimple!   

[hpv]

But seriously
The snuggling-after-sex-in-the-motel scene is ..not just because it's incredibly sweet ,we realized that's in that scene ,we completely buy the fact that they are soulmates. The sleepy grunting and mumbling between them, as well as their obvious delight and disbelief at the fact that they've got something so real---the two actors pulled that scene off so convincingly. They truly belonged together, and despite the fact that they had been intimate before, that particular scene showed us, that it was a lifetime thing. 

[tpe]

But seriously
The snuggling-after-sex-in-the-motel scene is ..not just because it's incredibly sweet but for myself, I realized that's the scene where I completely buy the fact that they are soulmates. The sleepy grunting and mumbling between them, as well as their obvious delight and disbelief at the fact that they've got something so real---the two actors pulled that scene off so convincingly. They truly belonged together, and despite the fact that they had been intimate before, that particular scene told me, that it was a lifetime thing. 

And I do like the dimple. 

[welshwitch]

The whole thing is a sort of physical communion, not just sex for the sake of sex but sex as part of giving and merging and sharing.

Oh, yes, and there's the dimple, too.

[tpe]

The whole thing is a sort of physical communion, not just sex for the sake of sex but sex as part of giving and merging and sharing.

Oh, yes, and there's the dimple, too.

I fet so happy for them here.  It was as if they were sharing their joy with us all.  So beautiful.  It is a communion, but it goes far beyond the confines of their two bodies, their two souls...

Somehow, we become them.

[Rønnaug]

Ok... FNIT vs SNIT is , to me, the difference in who is in charge..Same with Reunion kiss VS motel scene.

FNIT and Reunion is very much Ennis running the show, yes I know jack instigates FNIT but he is very much on the recieving end after he starts... same with the reunion. Jack sends the post card and instigates contact but it is Ennis that runs the show when they meet...

Now in SNIT jack is the one that makes the moves, Ennis comes in but Jack strokes, and starts the kissing, gets Ennis to lay don't and lays on top sort of to be in the drivers seat. Ennis only has to follow Jacks lead and be kissed. In the motel scene he also just have to lie there and be comfortable in Jacks arms...

I dunno if this made sense to anyone else but this is the way I see it It is wonderful to see Ennis completly at ease with not beeing in charge... and so loving, those strokes on Jacks arm...wonderful

[tpe]

Ok... FNIT vs SNIT is , to me, the difference in who is in charge..Same with Reunion kiss VS motel scene.

FNIT and Reunion is very much Ennis running the show, yes I know jack instigates FNIT but he is very much on the recieving end after he starts... same with the reunion. Jack sends the post card and instigates contact but it is Ennis that runs the show when they meet...

Now in SNIT jack is the one that makes the moves, Ennis comes in but Jack strokes, and starts the kissing, gets Ennis to lay don't and lays on top sort of to be in the drivers seat. Ennis only has to follow Jacks lead and be kissed. In the motel scene he also just have to lie there and be comfortable in Jacks arms...

I dunno if this made sense to anyone else but this is the way I see it It is wonderful to see Ennis completly at ease with not beeing in charge... and so loving, those strokes on Jacks arm...wonderful

Yes Esme: this makes total sense.

Thank you.

[shieldmaid]

Ok... FNIT vs SNIT is , to me, the difference in who is in charge..Same with Reunion kiss VS motel scene.

FNIT and Reunion is very much Ennis running the show, yes I know jack instigates FNIT but he is very much on the recieving end after he starts... same with the reunion. Jack sends the post card and instigates contact but it is Ennis that runs the show when they meet...

Now in SNIT jack is the one that makes the moves, Ennis comes in but Jack strokes, and starts the kissing, gets Ennis to lay don't and lays on top sort of to be in the drivers seat. Ennis only has to follow Jacks lead and be kissed. In the motel scene he also just have to lie there and be comfortable in Jacks arms...

I dunno if this made sense to anyone else but this is the way I see it It is wonderful to see Ennis completly at ease with not beeing in charge... and so loving, those strokes on Jacks arm...wonderful

Wow, Esme, beautifully put.  As people have pointed out on other threads, we see Ennis taking care of Jack a lot of the time (not telling him about the dead sheep, ordering soup, etc.) but it's so wonderful here to see him let go of that need for control, and let Jack take care of him for once.

[that_gal]

And the one thing that strikes me, is when Ennis asks, "Army didn't get you?" That means that he has been thinking of the last conversation he had with Jack---and has thought about it for l4 years! You can just see the loves Ennis has for Jack in his eyes, and as it has been said before, the way he strokes Jack's arm!
I all but melt watching this scence! I think my DVD has a groove in it where this scene is!

[welshwitch]

It suddenly occurred to me ( and I think this is  but am I bothered?) that one of the things that attracts me is seeing two men quite comfortable with each other's bodies. Don't know how Heath and Jake did it, because it looks convincing. I guess women are more accustomed to being touched, by children or medics or whoever, and men always seem to shy away from it, so part of the attraction if this scene  ( and SNIT)  is that lack of self-consciousness in the sens eof worrying about skin on skin.

[Rønnaug]

It suddenly occurred to me ( and I think this is  but am I bothered?) that one of the things that attracts me is seeing two men quite comfortable with each other's bodies. Don't know how Heath and Jake did it, because it looks convincing. I guess women are more accustomed to being touched, by children or medics or whoever, and men always seem to shy away from it, so part of the attraction if this scene  ( and SNIT)  is that lack of self-consciousness in the sens eof worrying about skin on skin.

I soooooo agree OT or not
and what just hit me as I was seeing it..in glorious Full Screen version, is that in the short story Ennis is lying on the bed ( spread eagled and spent I think is the description) and Jack is sitting on the foot of the bed... here they cuddle...they revel in eachother after sex...pretty damn ballsy for a couple a repressed, scared, closeted young men

[welshwitch]

Somehow the fact that it's a motel is right too - they don't have a place of their own, only Aguirre's tent and a rented room, and never achieve one. They always seem unsettled in their own homes, but in this temporary place they're content. It's pure Donne :

                     For love, all love of other sight controls,
                     And makes one little room an everywhere.

One day I'll post "To his Mistress, Going to Bed" - it's a man undressing a woman but totally perfect for describing SNIT.

[NoReins]

I love everything about this scene. As others have said, all the little shows of affection are perfect - the way that Jack turns his face into Ennis's hair, the way that Ennis strokes Jack's arm every time he says something romantic. Just perfect. I do wish that Jack could have seen the little smile on Ennis's lips when he said what are we gonna do now, though - it would have shown him that Ennis really did care.

I also wish (and I guess this is probably OT) that the screenwriters had allowed Ennis to say more in this scene...in the SS he's much more chatty and he lets Jack know more of how he feels. I know the exact words may not have been appropriate, but maybe they could have allowed him a few more words?

[stacp]

I love everything about this scene. As others have said, all the little shows of affection are perfect - the way that Jack turns his face into Ennis's hair, the way that Ennis strokes Jack's arm every time he says something romantic. Just perfect. I do wish that Jack could have seen the little smile on Ennis's lips when he said what are we gonna do now, though - it would have shown him that Ennis really did care.

I also wish (and I guess this is probably OT) that the screenwriters had allowed Ennis to say more in this scene...in the SS he's much more chatty and he lets Jack know more of how he feels. I know the exact words may not have been appropriate, but maybe they could have allowed him a few more words?

Amen to that!  I so wanted Ennis to say the line about "took me about a year to figure out I shouldn't of let you out of my sight" in the motel room.  A "declaration" of his feelings, if you will.  Jack needed it!  But, I guess the powers that be chose to show Ennis as more closed off.  It does make the times Ennis shows affection, albeit without words, even more special, though, and more heartbreaking at the end when he finally realizes what he's lost.   :'(

[frances]

I love everything about this scene. As others have said, all the little shows of affection are perfect - the way that Jack turns his face into Ennis's hair, the way that Ennis strokes Jack's arm every time he says something romantic. Just perfect. I do wish that Jack could have seen the little smile on Ennis's lips when he said what are we gonna do now, though - it would have shown him that Ennis really did care.

I also wish (and I guess this is probably OT) that the screenwriters had allowed Ennis to say more in this scene...in the SS he's much more chatty and he lets Jack know more of how he feels. I know the exact words may not have been appropriate, but maybe they could have allowed him a few more words?

Amen to that!  I so wanted Ennis to say the line about "took me about a year to figure out I shouldn't of let you out of my sight" in the motel room.  A "declaration" of his feelings, if you will.  Jack needed it!  But, I guess the powers that be chose to show Ennis as more closed off.  It does make the times Ennis shows affection, albeit without words, even more special, though, and more heartbreaking at the end when he finally realizes what he's lost.   :'(

There's this little glint in Ennis' eyes and a hint of a smile on his mouth for the whole scene, just chatting to Jack, enjoying a smoke a cuddle in the arms of the one he loves and the INSTANT Jack asks "what're we gonna do now?".... the happiness on Ennis's face dies. The glint and the smile are gone and its replaced by this coldness and the reality of their situation.

Its a sad moment, but it's one of Heath's most powerful.

[shieldmaid]

One moment I really love here, though, that I think does show a little of Ennis's emotion occurs right at the beginning of the scene, when Jack says, "Four years!" and Ennis replies, "yeah. Four years."  His voice trembles right there, and I've always interpreted that little quaver as meaning he's overwhelmed by wonder, affection, love, joy--and luckily Jack can hear it. 

[BBMaddict]

All of these interpretations are so beautiful. It made me go watch the scene just to savor all of your insights. I personally enjoy the parts of this scene you can hear but can't see, like when Jack is talking about Lureen's father and remarks, "Hates my guts..." and you hear Ennis chuckle a little. You almost have to listen as much as watch to enjoy ALL the aspects of this scene. In reference to the last part where Ennis talks about being stuck with what he's got, not only does Ennis shut his eyes and and we see the disappointment in him at this realization, but I've watched Jack a few times as well and he just stays perfectly still, eyes closed, face turned toward Ennis' head, like he doesn't want to realize what the words Ennis is saying truly mean.

[tpe]

DO you think that the way they show this scene -- the two of them not facing each other, seeing eye to eye -- was deliberate?  I have thought that it references the flashback scene where they again don't face each other.  Here is the motel scene, Jack embraces Ennis.  In the falshback, Ennis embraces Jack.  In both cases, they do not see eye to eye.  They are a striking parallel to each other...

[shieldmaid]

DO you think that the way they show this scene -- the two of them not facing each other, seeing eye to eye -- was deliberate?  I have thought that it references the flashback scene where they again don't face each other.  Here is the motel scene, Jack embraces Ennis.  In the falshback, Ennis embraces Jack.  In both cases, they do not see eye to eye.  They are a striking parallel to each other...

That's a great point, tpe.  It also reminds me of the scene on the mountain, when they are sitting next to one another but not looking at each other.  Perhaps they do their best communicating when not face to face.

[dalemidex]

DO you think that the way they show this scene -- the two of them not facing each other, seeing eye to eye -- was deliberate?  I have thought that it references the flashback scene where they again don't face each other.  Here is the motel scene, Jack embraces Ennis.  In the flashback, Ennis embraces Jack.  In both cases, they do not see eye to eye.  They are a striking parallel to each other...

That's a great point, tpe.  It also reminds me of the scene on the mountain, when they are sitting next to one another but not looking at each other.  Perhaps they do their best communicating when not face to face.

Don't know how I missed that before.  In the motel it's Jack behind with his forearm around Ennis -- opposite the flashback scene.  Not sure if that has any particular meaning or not. 

Lots of people -- mostly men -- tend to look to the side or in the distance when they talk to another person.  And perhaps counterintuitively it can be most pronounced when speaking about meaningful things rather than simple small talk.  Maybe it is a way to blunting the perceived vulnerability of speaking openly and directly?

[frances]

That's a great point, tpe.  It also reminds me of the scene on the mountain, when they are sitting next to one another but not looking at each other.  Perhaps they do their best communicating when not face to face.

So true. Maybe a little bit off topic...but most of the key lines of the movie ("Tell you what. The truth is... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" for istance) are pronounced not looking at each other.

[dalemidex]

There's this little glint in Ennis' eyes and a hint of a smile on his mouth for the whole scene, just chatting to Jack, enjoying a smoke a cuddle in the arms of the one he loves and the INSTANT Jack asks "what're we gonna do now?".... the happiness on Ennis's face dies. The glint and the smile are gone and its replaced by this coldness and the reality of their situation.

Its a sad moment, but it's one of Heath's most powerful.

This is to me among the sharpest turning points in the movie -- subtle yet very powerful.

Until this point there is hope that the reunion will bring them happiness, finally righting the wrong of four years earlier.  Right there it becomes clear to them both how it has to be, and you see it in Ennis' face.

Certainly there are many other pivotal points in the movie, but I find this one especially poignant because of the big contrast between how it is played and what the ultimate meaning is.