Author Topic: Until the shirts / the shirts in the closet (Read 97047 times)

tpe · « **Reply #90 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 06:53 AM »

Thanks everybody for sharing these wonderful thoughts.

As keren_b has mentioned, Jack's mom seemed to have expected that Ennis would find the shirst and request that he have them. Her nod to him is quiete and matter-of fact. I do believe that Roberta Maxwell meant to convey the element of the mother "knowing" all along about her son.

stephan · « **Reply #91 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:22 AM »

These are such beautiful thoughts, thank you everyone.
I think of Mrs Twist inviting Ennis to come back and visit anytime he wants. In other words, the love of a mother for her son extends to the one her son loves, including permanent hospitality. I can't help but remember the dialogue between Jesus and his mother, when he is on the cross.

frances · « **Reply #92 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:28 AM »

There's a moment I particularly love in this scene. As Ennis is going out the door, he nods thanks again for the shirts. They lock eyes -- he actually turns slightly in a very subtle double-take when he sees her expression -- and they hold that look for maybe an extra half a second. In that moment she is telling him she understands, and offering one last wordless gesture of comfort.
And he gets it.

Probably the only sympathy Ennis will ever get from anyone in his relationship with Jack and it's for such a short duration.

keren_b · « **Reply #93 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:31 AM »

Heath's acting in this scene is nothing but perfect. damn perfect.

tpe · « **Reply #94 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:42 AM »

...et alium paracletum dabit vobis ut maneat vobiscum in aeternum.

keren_b · « **Reply #95 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:45 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jun 26, 2006, 07:42 AM

...et alium paracletum dabit vobis ut maneat vobiscum in aeternum.

What does that mean?

tpe · « **Reply #96 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:47 AM »

Quote from: keren_b on Jun 26, 2006, 07:45 AM

Quote from: tpe on Jun 26, 2006, 07:42 AM
...et alium paracletum dabit vobis ut maneat vobiscum in aeternum.

What does that mean?

And he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

stephan · « **Reply #97 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 07:56 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jun 26, 2006, 07:47 AM

Quote from: keren_b on Jun 26, 2006, 07:45 AM

What does that mean?

And he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

Tpe :

ksxks · « **Reply #98 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 04:38 PM »

Quote from: keren_b on Jun 26, 2006, 05:09 AM

There are so many hints that show that Jack's mom knows. She treats Ennis very tenderly, from the begining. Notice when she offers Ennis to go up to Jack's room - it's right after Jack's father reminds the other fella that Jack was going to bring up there. you see Ennis swallowing hard and the corner of his mouth quiver, like he's fighting not to cry, and then Jack's mom puts her hand on his shoulder very softly, like comforting him, and offers him to go up to Jack's room. The mere fact that she offered that is an indication she knew that Ennis loved her son and vice versa. I said it before, going to see the deceased bedroom is a very private and intimate act, you don't offer that to anybody who comes from the street, only to people who were the most close to the one who died. and you can see how important this gesture was to Ennis and how much he appreciated that.
Then, when he came down with the shirts and that silent communication between them. Taking the shirts was the first time that Ennis confessed to anybody how important Jack was to him, and what kind of feelings he had for him. taking someone's clothing item as a suveneer is also something very personal and very intimate, don't you think? Ennis taking Jack's shirt would've looked weird if they really were just "buddies" or co-workers or anything like that. by taking his shirt Ennis was saying "I had deep feelings for you son, he meant to me more than I can tell you, and these shirts have deep meaning for me and I want to keep them because I need something of his, something that was a part of him, to remember, to keep him close to me..." and by the look on Jack's mom's face you can see that it doesn't look weird to her, she understands completely because she knows they loved each other.
Finally, she says, "you come visit us again sometime..." and this is the final proof that she knew. why would she wanna see Ennis again? because she knows this is the man her son loved. and since she lost her son, this man is the closest person to him she got left. Ennis is a part of Jack, the most significant part of his life, and that makes him special for Jack's mom becasue she loved her son.

I also wanted to add that when Ennis comes down with the shirts, Jack's mom looks like she'd expected that. to me, her look and that little nod seem to say "oh, I see you've found them... yes, of course you can take them". some people were saying that when she offered Ennis to go up there she expected him to find the shirts, or at least hoped that would happen - while I'm not totally sure of it, I can't rule out the possibility.

Making me said, reading of this poignant scene. I love how you've written about it, keren, a little revisiting of these moments while I am at my workaday life. You said how Ennis taking the shirts isn't something some "buddy" would do -- it's intimate. So true. And also about Mrs. Twist's immediately recognizing what he was carrying when he came down, before even his gesture and her getting the bag. That was just phenomenal acting, by everyone. I know I'm "preaching to the choir," and it goes without saying, yet still I am always struck by the quality and subtlety of these performances...

kathy

ksxks · « **Reply #99 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 04:41 PM »

Quote from: frances on Jun 26, 2006, 07:28 AM

There's a moment I particularly love in this scene. As Ennis is going out the door, he nods thanks again for the shirts. They lock eyes -- he actually turns slightly in a very subtle double-take when he sees her expression -- and they hold that look for maybe an extra half a second. In that moment she is telling him she understands, and offering one last wordless gesture of comfort.
And he gets it.

Probably the only sympathy Ennis will ever get from anyone in his relationship with Jack and it's for such a short duration.

Oh god now I really am almost in tears. I know those moments you mean, but now I need to get home tonight and watch them again. I love that little silent eye-contact between them at the door, but I never quite noticed the extra little look. Oh shit, it just breaks my heart, what you said: "the only sympathy Ennis will ever get from anyone in his relationship with Jack."

kathy

BBBOY · « **Reply #100 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 04:58 PM »

Great posts folks. There is so much still to be gleaned from this movie.

TheBoyFromNoWhere · « **Reply #101 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 11:58 PM »

umn... i have nothing to add. i wish i know how to quit BBM.

stephan · « **Reply #102 on:** Jun 27, 2006, 06:26 AM »

Quote from: TheBoyFromNoWhere on Jun 26, 2006, 11:58 PM

umn... i have nothing to add. i wish i know how to quit BBM.

Mon cher ami, love is so powerful, so frighteningly powerful, but who could live without it ?

tpe · « **Reply #103 on:** Jun 27, 2006, 06:56 AM »

Quote from: stephan on Jun 27, 2006, 06:26 AM

Quote from: TheBoyFromNoWhere on Jun 26, 2006, 11:58 PM
umn... i have nothing to add. i wish i know how to quit BBM.

Mon cher ami, love is so powerful, so frighteningly powerful, but who could live without it ?

Nobody, save the spiritually dead, and the heartless.

jeffjoe · « **Reply #104 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 12:36 AM »

Posiblemente Ennis sabia en el fondo de su corazon cuanto lo amaba Jack, pero no lo comprendio hasta ver ambas camisas unidas con sangre... esta escena me partio el corazon. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Maybe Ennis know in the deep of his heart how much jack love him but he don't understand it until he saw both shirts joined with blood... this scene has broken my heart. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

ande_nem · « **Reply #105 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 05:38 AM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on Jul 09, 2006, 12:36 AM

Posiblemente Ennis sabia en el fondo de su corazon cuanto lo amaba Jack, pero no lo comprendio hasta ver ambas camisas unidas con sangre... esta escena me partio el corazon. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Maybe Ennis know in the deep of his heart how much jack love him but he don't understand it until he saw both shirts joined with blood... this scene has broken my heart. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Yeh same. I can't watch that scene without crying, and I start to well up just thinking about it :\'(

welshwitch · « **Reply #106 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 02:08 PM »

The shirts are effective also partly because they're such ordinary everyday things - anyone who's been in love knows that the things you treasure are rarely valuable in a monetary sense but just closely linked with or clearly reminiscent of the one you love. Ennis must picture Jack in the blue shirt as he once was up on the mountain, alive and full of energy; now the shirt retains his blood long after he has gone for ever.

browneyes · « **Reply #107 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 02:21 PM »

I think that is why Ennis buttons up the top button on Jack's shirt. Just to have more of a memory of how Jack looked in it. Because when they were on Brokeback, all of the buttons were fasten (even the top). And it's weird, because when my dog died in February. The vet gave me her colaar and the first thing I did was smell it (just like Ennis did with Jack's shirt). I even put it in a little zip-lock bag, so I don't lose the scent. I really loved my doggie.

tpe · « **Reply #108 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 02:50 PM »

I canot help envisioning the shirts as a relic. And Ennis's blood is the compact. The fulfilment is the shedding of Jack's blood. As Ennis's was sealed on the Mountain, so Jack's is shed on the grieving plain.

welshwitch · « **Reply #109 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 05:01 PM »

Each shirt has its owner's blood, but their blood may also be mixed. I like to see it as such, and therefore as a kind of blood-brotherhood. It also reminds me of being a kid and sticking a needle in one's finger to sign some fearful oath or mix it with that of one's friends as part of some game or gang thing. Blood is a powerful link

He that sheds his blood with me today
Shall be my brother.

BBBOY · « **Reply #110 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 05:33 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 09, 2006, 05:01 PM

Each shirt has its owner's blood, but their blood may also be mixed. I like to see it as such, and therefore as a kind of blood-brotherhood. It also reminds me of being a kid and sticking a needle in one's finger to sign some fearful oath or mix it with that of one's friends as part of some game or gang thing. Blood is a powerful link

He that sheds his blood with me today
Shall be my brother.

Beautiful WW. :\'(

browneyes · « **Reply #111 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 06:32 PM »

I believe it's only Ennis' blood on the shirts. Jack didn't bleed when they were fighting.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #112 on:** Jul 09, 2006, 07:33 PM »

Beautiful tpe & WW. :\'(

keren_b · « **Reply #113 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 05:53 AM »

Quote from: browneyes on Jul 09, 2006, 06:32 PM

I believe it's only Ennis' blood on the shirts. Jack didn't bleed when they were fighting.

I agree. after the fight you see Jack is trying to wipe Ennis's blood with his own sleeve, but he wasn't bleeding himself.

stephan · « **Reply #114 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 06:03 AM »

In any case, I feel that for Jack, it was like sharing Ennis's blood. The blood-stained shirt was an image of what Jack had become : his love for Ennis was like having Ennis's blood in his veins.

NoReins · « **Reply #115 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 06:12 AM »

Quote from: stephan on Jul 10, 2006, 06:03 AM

In any case, I feel that for Jack, it was like sharing Ennis's blood. The blood-stained shirt was an image of what Jack had become : his love for Ennis was like having Ennis's blood in his veins.

Aye, and Ennis's shirt is wrapped up in his just like Jack held Ennis inside him for 20 years (and I swear that is not meant to be suggestive at all

)

stephan · « **Reply #116 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 06:20 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on Jul 10, 2006, 06:12 AM

Aye, and Ennis's shirt is wrapped up in his just like Jack held Ennis inside him for 20 years (and I swear that is not meant to be suggestive at all )

NoReins, I like your image of Jack's love :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #117 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 06:44 AM »

Quote from: stephan on Jul 10, 2006, 06:03 AM

In any case, I feel that for Jack, it was like sharing Ennis's blood. The blood-stained shirt was an image of what Jack had become : his love for Ennis was like having Ennis's blood in his veins.

Yes, Ennis's blood is the compact that is sealed with the shedding of Jack's blood later on... When Ennis bleeds, so does Jack. When Jack dies, so does Ennis.

gimmejack · « **Reply #118 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 06:59 AM »

I'm not too often the optimist, but I always felt that Ennis came alive in a way with Jack's death. In his dealing with his family, his being more in touch with his feelings and actually allowing himself to feel...grieve...love and furthermore, not being ashamed to show it with Jack's parents. Right away after finding the shirts, he is finally able to say it out loud..."I love you (even though a whisper).... Jack I swear". Kind of an awakening IMO.

tpe · « **Reply #119 on:** Jul 10, 2006, 07:02 AM »

Quote from: gimmejack on Jul 10, 2006, 06:59 AM

I'm not too often the optimist, but I always felt that Ennis came alive in a way with Jack's death. In his dealing with his family, his being more in touch with his feelings and actually allowing himself to feel...grieve...love and furthermore, not being ashamed to show it with Jack's parents. Right away after finding the shirts, he is finally able to say it out loud..."I love you (even though a whisper).... Jack I swear". Kind of an awakening IMO.

Perhaps. But I think he will love nobody else the way he loved Jack. In this sense, he is now dead to the world.