Topic: Randall

[greenfrog]

Definitely, he was thinking of Ennis. One of Jake's finest acting moments, IMHO.

monicita

Agreed. I doubt that Ennis was ever far from his mind.

 :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

[tpe]

Interesting angle LJN.  It never occurred to me that Jack may have been a little surprised by Randall's proposition.  I assumed Jack had done this subtle dance before.  However it is reasonable to conclude that Randlall may have been the first guy to proposition him outside of the usual settings of back then.

I had thought that Jack was used to being the one making the first move.  And I suspected that Randall caught him off guard.  And yes, the look and silence after hearing out Randall is wonderfully done.  I am sure he was thinking of Ennis.  And lead us not into temptation...

[ragtimecowboy]

Newbie here - just saw BBM one week ago -it has such a powerful grip on me. Just mirroring other sentiments on the Jack & Randall relationship - I think Jack settled although Ennis was certainly his first choice and true love.

This brings up a question though  - please forgive me if already discussed elsewhere - what made Randall so comfortable in his proposition to Jack the night both couples met up at the dance? In some way did Jack's reputation precede him? Seems very risky to me on Randall's part. Just wondering what you all think of this. IMO in that scene, Jack seems perhaps a bit offended in those initial seconds after being asked by Randall to "go fishing" at the cabin.

Also, did Jack's 'settling' contribute to his ultimate demise? (for those who believe he was murdered) i.e. perhaps not as discrete with Randall; getting drunk (Lureen's comment: "he drank a lot"); somehow, a slow self-death?

         What you witnessed was the fine nuances of gaydar at work. Randall carefully observed Jack's mannerisms and realized he was with a kindred spirit. As far as Jack being offended, I don't think so, more like being surprised it was picked up on so easily. Randall made his subtle move on Jack after seeing him strut his stuff on the dance floor with La Shawn. How Jack could withstand the never ending gab she let flow I'll never know. Yes drinking was a slow death for him, and settling did ultimately cause his demise in Childress. 

[aintfoolin]

We saw Jack make the first move a couple times , with the rodeo clown and with Ennis. I agree he was caught off guard by Randall's "suggestion".  Even though he made it clear at the table that he was interested,, I don't think he anticipated Randall' reaction.

[tpe]

Yes.  Perhaps Jack thought Randall would be another Ennis, in the sense of not being up-front with his desires.

[ragtimecowboy]

Yes.  Perhaps Jack thought Randall would be another Ennis, in the sense of not being up-front with his desires.

        This may well have been the case. Randall surprised him with his subtle forwardness. Jack was being placed in the position of being the object of possible  affection in a public place, nothing he ever would experience with Ennis.

[tpe]

        This may well have been the case. Randall surprised him with his subtle forwardness. Jack was being placed in the position of being the object of possible  affection in a public place, nothing he ever would experience with Ennis.

I agree.  This is precisely the way I feel.

[welshwitch]

If you've spent years pursuing someone with little response, it might be rather pleasant to have someone evidently keen enough to pursue you.

[tpe]

If you've spent years pursuing someone with little response, it might be rather pleasant to have someone evidently keen enough to pursue you.

This is human nature.  We certainly can't fault Jack.

[aintfoolin]

Yep, Jack probably felt flatterd that he was the object of Randall's pursuit. For once he did not have to face rejection. Randall wanted him.

[ragtimecowboy]

Yep, Jack probably felt flatterd that he was the object of Randall's pursuit. For once he did not have to face rejection. Randall wanted him.

        He got rejected several times by Ennis for wanting to be open with his desire. And was stung pretty hard by the Rodeo Clown in the saloon. Even after all these years for working for any attention he got, this was a pleasant and unexpected surprise for him. Someone wanted him possibly for the first time with no strings attached and no effort on his part other than to take him up on the offer.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I can imagine how Jack must have felt.  Randall is quite a catch.  It had to be a little strange for Jack to be the one who was being pursued.

[aintfoolin]

That quote " Oh what a tangled web we weave" comes to mind . Jack, caught between these two handsosome cowboys Randall and Ennis.I'd have gladly taken one off his hands!!   Did I say that?Jeeeeeeez.Jack Twist,

[tpe]

Many times, we are the spider to our fly. 

It is when Jack begins to doubt that he opens the door to other possibilities.  To doubt is to be human.

[aintfoolin]

They both had another big problem to worry about: LaShawn's big mouth! Who needs CNN with her telling tales about Randall and Jack if she'd gotten the slightest wind of this? How would Jack leave Ennis for Randall. I can't see this having a chance. Jack kept his secret affairs well hidden in Texas, but this could not have gone farther than it did. Can't imagine him living in LF with him, John Sr. and phone calls from LaShawn to Twist Sr.( you know she'd be more brazen in her disapproval than Alma was) or would at least fight alot harder for her man in my opinion. Would make very interesting conversation. but well.....no. Ennis was Jack's best and ONLY bet.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I guess I hadn't given it much thought.  True enough...LaShawn could have made Randall's life a living hell if he had left her for Jack.  Considering CNN was in its infancy back then, she could  have broadcast this fact about him over a wider listening area.

[welshwitch]

Yes, but would she or LaShawn have wanted it known that their respective husbands had moved in together? Depends whether you think wounded pride would make them keep quiet or a desire for vengeance would make them loquacious. Knowing Lureen, her major concern might well be the business and how losing Jack would impact on that - he was supposedly their only tractor salesman.

I guess Randall's employer wouldn't be keen to keep him on anyway, so Lightning Flat or a totally different area would be their choices, given that John Twist is hardky likely to tolerate the two of them living on his land once the nature of the relationship becomes clear.

And I don't see Randall, with his degree, settling on some little farm like the Twists'.

[aintfoolin]

I suspect that Lureen knew Jack was cheating with SOMEBODY, judging from the way Jack described the marriage toward the end, and his repeated trips to Wy. but wether she  knew it was with men???, + she could have  been self-sufficent if she had to be, I'm not sure, But LaShawn did'nt appear to me to be as discreetly "polished" if I may say as Lureen. I don't see her being "quiet" about this. Her brazen manner would factor into this. Sure, she'd be shocked and hurt, but I've known a few LaShawns in my lifetime. That southern pride? Would'nt take it lying down.  %(She'd eventually turn vindictive at being spurned this way. She could always move away from the gossip, but not before she extracted her revenge on Randall...and Jack . She'd give new meaning to "a woman scorned". They both seemed like "daddy's girls" to me ( we know Lureen was for sure), and Jack and Randall were playing with fire. my2 cents

[welshwitch]

I can imagine LaShawn having an effective line in invective - not so sure about Lureen. going on the little smirk in the Thanksgiving scene, she can keep her feelings to herself when she wants to. and Lureen had been married for some time, had the business and a position in Childress - she could have done without Jack.

LaSahawn, on the other hand, was an ex-shop-assistant - Randall must have been a catch for her - don't think she'd be happy to let him go without a fight, whether to a man or another woman, because she had nothing to fall back on without him.

[ragtimecowboy]

I guess I hadn't given it much thought.  True enough...LaShawn could have made Randall's life a living hell if he had left her for Jack.  Considering CNN was in its infancy back then, she could  have broadcast this fact about him over a wider listening area.

          He wouldn't have lived long after the broadcast considering the town was basicaly made up of rednecked, whitesocked, Pabst Blue Ribbon drinkers.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

My guess is that LaShawn would have made Randall appear as the number one town enemy.  I think her embarassment would have taken a back seat to vengence.

[tpe]

I guess I hadn't given it much thought.  True enough...LaShawn could have made Randall's life a living hell if he had left her for Jack.  Considering CNN was in its infancy back then, she could  have broadcast this fact about him over a wider listening area.

I have a feeling though that LaShawn was a person whose interest could be easily diverted to something else and would tend to forget much sooner.  Why do I say this?  People who chatter too much never listen, and we know that people who don't listen never retain that much inside.

[tpe]

And I don't see Randall, with his degree, settling on some little farm like the Twists'.

Interesting point.

Randall had certainly a much more "elevated" and educated background than Jack.  But I wonder whether this is a case of opposites strongly attracting each other. 

It is hard to imagine Randall settling in LF, but perhaps he would have been the right person to whip the ranch back into shape.  If he agreed to the plan, it is evidence of a great affection for Jack, no?

[welshwitch]

If you look at him, he doesn't appear like some dirt poor farm worker - to get the Twist ranch into any sort of shape you'd need money too - it looks run-down and neglected. He looks to me like the new generation of managerial types who know all the theory but don't want to get their hands dirty. (Are my prejudices showing?)

[tpe]

I suspect that Lureen knew Jack was cheating with SOMEBODY, judging from the way Jack described the marriage toward the end, and his repeated trips to Wy. but wether she  knew it was with men???, + she could have  been self-sufficent if she had to be, I'm not sure, But LaShawn did'nt appear to me to be as discreetly "polished" if I may say as Lureen. I don't see her being "quiet" about this. Her brazen manner would factor into this. Sure, she'd be shocked and hurt, but I've known a few LaShawns in my lifetime. That southern pride? Would'nt take it lying down.  %(She'd eventually turn vindictive at being spurned this way. She could always move away from the gossip, but not before she extracted her revenge on Randall...and Jack . She'd give new meaning to "a woman scorned". They both seemed like "daddy's girls" to me ( we know Lureen was for sure), and Jack and Randall were playing with fire. my2 cents

If we are to consider the possibility that Lureen had Jack killed, then certainly she must have been aware of something in the end.  Not so sure if she was aware that it was with Randall -- perhaps she thought it to be LaShawn.  But I suspect that she probably knew about Randall.

[tpe]

My guess is that LaShawn would have made Randall appear as the number one town enemy.  I think her embarassment would have taken a back seat to vengence.

I largely agree.  I suspect that the case would be different with Lureen as far as vindictiveness is concerned.

[tpe]

If you look at him, he doesn't appear like some dirt poor farm worker - to get the Twist ranch into any sort of shape you'd need money too - it looks run-down and neglected. He looks to me like the new generation of managerial types who know all the theory but don't want to get their hands dirty. (Are my prejudices showing?)

Well, perhaps he and Jack would be well-matched, then.  After all, times were certainly changing, and perhaps they needed someone like randall to help make the transition.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I largely agree.  I suspect that the case would be different with Lureen as far as vindictiveness is concerned.

You're probably correct.  Lureen's personality and family influences lead me to believe she would have stuck it to Jack without any grand announcements.  I think she would have tried to maintain her appearance with regards to her circle of associates and friends.

[LuvJackNasty]

I have a feeling though that LaShawn was a person whose interest could be easily diverted to something else and would tend to forget much sooner.  Why do I say this?  People who chatter too much never listen, and we know that people who don't listen never retain that much inside.

Good point- I don't think anyone could get a word in edgewise to tell her they suspected Jack and Randall.

You're probably correct.  Lureen's personality and family influences lead me to believe she would have stuck it to Jack without any grand announcements.  I think she would have tried to maintain her appearance with regards to her circle of associates and friends.

Another good point- I think Lureen was more concerned about appearances and therefore wouldn't have wanted for word to get out- at the very least it wouldn't come from her. I don;t think she had him killed but I do believe she knows the true nature of his death- that little story she told Ennis was too rehearsed plus the "He was only 39 yrs old" was part of her speech. We don't know what became of Randall or what even prompted Jack's attack- for all we know Randall is dead too. 

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

for all we know Randall is dead too. 

That's an awful thaught!