Topic: Randall

[tpe]

Fascinated is right.  Just seeing Randall and LaShawn prompted me to think "wow...here's a story in itself."

If this were a sit-com, I am sure tthe producers would have readily made a spin-off based on Randall and LaShawn.

Still, the fact that so little is known is the primary element that intrigues us.  I would suspect that had they delineated Randall's character a bit more, there is a big chance that we would be less fascinated...

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

It's because we know very little about him that we are fascinated -- considering that he does plays an important role in Jack's final years (albeit not explicit in the story or film)...

It might not be that important a role at all - it might have been a one off. There are deleted scenes of Jack with Randall. It there are ever released, it would be interesting to see how much they add in terms of depth.

[tpe]

It might not be that important a role at all - it might have been a one off. There are deleted scenes of Jack with Randall. It there are ever released, it would be interesting to see how much they add in terms of depth.

I see your point, JFT.  But Randall is important if we can assume that it is him who Jack finally settles for to share a life with him -- at least this seems to be implied in both short story and film.  But it would be so nice to see how they would have filled in the details of this relationship...

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

I see your point, JFT.  But Randall is important if we can assume that it is him who Jack finally settles for to share a life with him.

Yes, that is true. Jack's parents were ready for them.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I see your point, JFT.  But Randall is important if we can assume that it is him who Jack finally settles for to share a life with him -- at least this seems to be implied in both short story and film.  But it would be so nice to see how they would have filled in the details of this relationship...

I agree. No doubt the deleted scenes would have given us a little more insight has to how this relationship might have developed.

[tpe]

I would assume that Randall never got to visit LF with Jack, but I don't know the particulars of the deleted scenes enough to be certain about this.

After Jack's death, Randall seems to have disappeared completely to us.  I wonder how he took in the news of Jack's death?  My suspicion is that it probably raised the feeling of fear more than anything else.  I would assume that he would have suppressed any feeling he might have had and retreated deeper into the closet, no?

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I would assume that Randall never got to visit LF with Jack, but I don't know the particulars of the deleted scenes enough to be certain about this.

After Jack's death, Randall seems to have disappeared completely to us.  I wonder how he took in the news of Jack's death?  My suspicion is that it probably raised the feeling of fear more than anything else.  I would assume that he would have suppressed any feeling he might have had and retreated deeper into the closet, no?

That would be a likely possibility given his location the cultural climate at the time.

[welshwitch]

If it was Jack's involvement with Randall (and I can't see any way the mob in Texas would have known about Ennis) that brought about his murder, why would Randall have been left alone? At the very least he must have been frightened by what happened to Jack and looking over his shoulder afterwards.

I should think his first instinct would be to get the hell out of Childress.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

If it was Jack's involvement with Randall (and I can't see any way the mob in Texas would have known about Ennis) that brought about his murder, why would Randall have been left alone? At the very least he must have been frightened by what happened to Jack and looking over his shoulder afterwards.

I should think his first instinct would be to get the hell out of Childress.

I don't see Randall as being left alone physically.  Getting out of Childress would have been first priority, especially if his relationship was a catalyst for Jack's death.  I see him as being frightened enough to retreat to the closet indefinitely.

[tpe]

Yes, we don't know what happened to Randall soon after Jack's death, but it is likely that he was unnerved enough to have contemplated a move out of Childress.  If his relationship with Jack had indeed been found out, there was no way that he would have stayed and risk being ostracized or physically harmed.

[stephan]

Even if Jack had not had anything going with Randall, the idea to move away might have appeared attractive after Jack's death. If Jack had been indiscreet enough to be labeled a homosexual, the line of thinking could conceivably be : "If Jack could get himself killed, so could I." Therefore, move away.

[JT]

I think moving away would be a better option for Randall than hiding deeper in the closet, since he's been seen with Jack already.  What would hiding do for him?  As for his reaction to Jack's death, I think shock and fear would come to him first, and if he loved Jack enough, he would also grieve.

[tpe]

Perhaps he would move away and hide peer into the closet.  I am sure Jack's death was traumatic for him too.  It may also have been a close call, no?

[JT]

Yeah, it could have been a close call.  It might have been him instead of Jack but if he was with Jack on that fateful day, they might not have been attack.  But either one could be attack in the future.

[tpe]

Yeah, it could have been a close call.  It might have been him instead of Jack but if he was with Jack on that fateful day, they might not have been attack.  But either one could be attack in the future.

In the deleted scene, I wonder if Randall just left Jack.  Yes, I wonder how Randall must have felt when he found out.  He probably kept quiet about it, even though he knew the truth.  But he must have been scared.  And if he loved Jack even a little, I think he would have been horrified at the thought that he left him there.

[JT]

I think he was horrified consider that he's been with Jack for maybe 5 years.  He must have love Jack one way or the other, but probably not as much as Ennis would.  The funny thing is, the first time I saw the movie, I actually thought that Randall was the person who actually murder Jack. 

[tpe]

I think he was horrified consider that he's been with Jack for maybe 5 years.  He must have love Jack one way or the other, but probably not as much as Ennis would.  The funny thing is, the first time I saw the movie, I actually thought that Randall was the person who actually murder Jack. 

How interesting, JT.  Then again, the murder scene was so mysterious that one can't really tell what exactly happened, no?  Personally, I never thought it was Randall, but I did suspect Lureen.  Did Lureen know about Randall, I wonder?  Perhaps she no longer cared?

[JT]

I also suspected Lureen and/or her father as the culprit, but no longer Randall as I understand more about the movie now.  As I recall, LD Newsome died before Jack according to the SS, so I don't think he did it either.  I don't know why I though it was Randall.  Maybe it's because when John Twist said,"...some ranch neighbor of his...", in the SS, Ennis knew it was the tire iron.  I had that impression back then that Ennis thought it was this ranch neighbor that attack Jack.  I have to admit that it took several viewings to understand this masterpiece.

[tpe]

I also suspected Lureen and/or her father as the culprit, but no longer Randall as I understand more about the movie now.  As I recall, LD Newsome died before Jack according to the SS, so I don't think he did it either.  I don't know why I though it was Randall.  Maybe it's because when John Twist said,"...some ranch neighbor of his...", in the SS, Ennis knew it was the tire iron.  I had that impression back then that Ennis thought it was this ranch neighbor that attack Jack.  I have to admit that it took several viewings to understand this masterpiece.

The quote you gave is the one that many think points to Lureen, rather than Randall:

Then this spring he’s got another one’s goin a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He’s goin a split up with his wife and come back here. So he says. But like most a Jack’s ideas it never come to pass.”

So now he knew it had been the tire iron.

{Proulx -- Brokeback Mountain, 1997)

[JT]

Yes, as I read it more and more, it seems to point to Lureen.  She might have hired the killers, but I think only she knows what happer.  She definately have the money to do it.  Randall was probably just a victim for loosing someone he knew for several years.

[tpe]

Yes, as I read it more and more, it seems to point to Lureen.  She might have hired the killers, but I think only she knows what happer.  She definately have the money to do it.  Randall was probably just a victim for loosing someone he knew for several years.

JT , if you are interested, there is an old thread devoted exclusively to this topic. 

[JT]

I'm straying off topic I guess.

[stephan]

How interesting, JT.  Then again, the murder scene was so mysterious that one can't really tell what exactly happened, no?  Personally, I never thought it was Randall, but I did suspect Lureen.(...)

Hang on a minute, friends ! There is no murder scene, to be precise. It appears to be a flashback, however it could very well be Ennis's fears creating a nightmare sequence.

[welshwitch]

It's impossible to know whether Randall, or Lureen for that matter, is complicit in or aware of the identity of those guilty of Jack's murder. If I had to say, I'd assume Lureen had a good idea after the event; for Randall, I guess, it came as a frightening shock.

But he's in a better position than say Ennis would be - he could move elsewhere and get another job as he has relevant qualifications. And as long as LaShawn sticks around, he has his camouflage in place. He might be more circumspect in making propositions in the future, though.

[JT]

Hang on a minute, friends ! There is no murder scene, to be precise. It appears to be a flashback, however it could very well be Ennis's fears creating a nightmare sequence.

Oops, I should clarify that all the things I said is based to my personal belief and my belief is that Jack was murdered and not killed by the accident.  Sorry,  .

[stephan]

(...)Sorry,  .

Me too, JT ! 

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

Hang on a minute, friends ! There is no murder scene, to be precise. It appears to be a flashback, however it could very well be Ennis's fears creating a nightmare sequence.

With respect - I disagree. I know this is off topic but I want to reply to this.

If you go down this road the flashbacks with Earl who got killed during Ennis' childhood and the sleepy hug scene are also just hallucinations too!

This is a work of fiction - but all that is shown it intended to be taken literally as part of the story line.

This is a love story with a violent ending. Jack ended up cremated. A nightmare scinario - but not a nightmare in the sense of a bad dream.

If believing that this one scene is just a "nightmare" Ennis had while on the phone to Lureen and it helps you cope in someway, that is perfectly understandable.

[tpe]

Hang on a minute, friends ! There is no murder scene, to be precise. It appears to be a flashback, however it could very well be Ennis's fears creating a nightmare sequence.

This is correct.  Although cinematically, I have been told that the intent was to make the viewer think that Jack was indeed murdered...

[tpe]

But he's in a better position than say Ennis would be - he could move elsewhere and get another job as he has relevant qualifications. And as long as LaShawn sticks around, he has his camouflage in place. He might be more circumspect in making propositions in the future, though.

Yes.  And Randall was in a better position to move on and possibly forget.  His world was more mobile than Ennis's.

[stephan]

(...) If believing that this one scene is just a nightmare helps you cope in someway, that is perfectly understandable.

This is correct.  Although cinematically, I have been told that the intent was to make the viewer think that Jack was indeed murdered...

There is definitely a psychological aspect to my interpretation ; perhaps something else as well, since I find a certain ambiguity to Jack's death adds to Ennis's sorrow and to the film's artistic merit. Without ambiguities... well, something seems to be lacking, in fiction as in reality....