Author Topic: Randall (Read 235723 times)

browneyes · « **on:** Jul 04, 2006, 08:38 AM »

Doesn't anyone agree that Jack was not going to go through with living w/Randall. I just don't think Jack would abandon Ennis. I think even though Jack & Randall knew each other for 5 years (and had occasional sex). Ennis was always the love of Jack's life. Randall was just someone he could have sex with when the cravings got too bad.

What do you all think?

welshwitch · « **Reply #1 on:** Jul 04, 2006, 08:49 AM »

Randall is second best, if he's that. Kind of makes you feel sorry for him - he's the man who isn't Ennis.

browneyes · « **Reply #2 on:** Jul 04, 2006, 08:52 AM »

Yeah, sometimes I get so mad Jack was w/Randall for 5 years. But ultimately Ennis is the love of his life. I think Jack just had sexual desires he needed fulfilled and Randall was closer than Mexico.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #3 on:** Jul 04, 2006, 10:16 AM »

I agree . Randall was a cool sip of water . Ennis is the waterfall. How could he stand LaShawn?

browneyes · « **Reply #4 on:** Jul 04, 2006, 06:30 PM »

Who knows? Maybe Randall didn't want to have a life with Jack either. The way he came on to Jack, it seemed to me he wanted sex. And so did Jack somewhat. It was like they were in a bar and Randall is looking for a one night stand he can keep coming back to. But surely after being with Jack for 5 years there were probably some feelings. But if Jack was going to move to his father's Ranch with Randall I think it would be to make Ennis jealous. If Jack really wanted to move on with his life he wouldn't stay in a place just miles away from Ennis. Thats why I think Jack would do that just to make Ennis jealous. I think Randall probably knew Jack had a significant other in Wyoming. Jack probably told him. Ennis was the dealbreaker, not Randall.

stacp · « **Reply #5 on:** Jul 04, 2006, 08:01 PM »

Quote from: browneyes on Jul 04, 2006, 06:30 PM

Who knows? Maybe Randall didn't want to have a life with Jack either. The way he came on to Jack, it seemed to me he wanted sex. And so did Jack somewhat. It was like they were in a bar and Randall is looking for a one night stand he can keep coming back to. But surely after being with Jack for 5 years there were probably some feelings. But if Jack was going to move to his father's Ranch with Randall I think it would be to make Ennis jealous. If Jack really wanted to move on with his life he wouldn't stay in a place just miles away from Ennis. Thats why I think Jack would do that just to make Ennis jealous. I think Randall probably knew Jack had a significant other in Wyoming. Jack probably told him. Ennis was the dealbreaker, not Randall.

I totally agree, browneyes. Randall was Jack's f**k buddy, IMO. Maybe Jack, at some point, thought he could move on from Ennis with Randall. Obviously, it didn't work. Jack wished he knew how to quit Ennis. Jack laments at the last meeting with Ennis that he can't. Says to me that Randall is nothing but beans to Jack, and we all know Jack won't settle for beans. If Jack would've lived, there's no way Randall would've replaced Ennis.

browneyes · « **Reply #6 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 07:24 AM »

Thank you. But it just kills me that someone can have a f**k buddy for 5 years off and on. However it is possible (I see it on the Maury show all the time). The look on Jack's face when Randall told him about the cabin is priceless. He was obviously thinking about Ennis. So even if he was with Randall, it couldn't stop him being in love with Ennis. That's why he saw Ennis every chance he got. But I wonder how Randall felt through all this? Did he know Jack had a significant other? Did Randall fall in love with Jack at some point (like Cassie did Ennis)? That's what really eats at my mind. But Randall was lucky he knew for sure Jack was gay.

tpe · « **Reply #7 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 07:59 AM »

My personal feeling is: it is a good thing that Ang Lee edited out the supposed scene between Randall, Jack, and the mechanics -- it certainly would have been to much for me to bear.

No wonder Jake Gyllenhaal gave his sad assessment of Jack's faithfulness. He must have given it in light of certain deleted scenes...

ande_nem · « **Reply #8 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 08:43 AM »

Quote from: browneyes on Jul 05, 2006, 07:24 AM

Thank you. But it just kills me that someone can have a f**k buddy for 5 years off and on. However it is possible (I see it on the Maury show all the time). The look on Jack's face when Randall told him about the cabin is priceless. He was obviously thinking about Ennis. So even if he was with Randall, it couldn't stop him being in love with Ennis. That's why he saw Ennis every chance he got. But I wonder how Randall felt through all this? Did he know Jack had a significant other? Did Randall fall in love with Jack at some point (like Cassie did Ennis)? That's what really eats at my mind. But Randall was lucky he knew for sure Jack was gay.

I reckon Randall probably did fall in love with Jack. We know that he wasn't happy with LaShawn - when him and Jack first meet, you can tell that he's annoyed with her talking and the way she is. Also, when Ennis goes to see Jack's parents, Jack's dad mentions that Randall left his wife and Jack mentioned to his dad about the plans he had for him and Randall to move in and "lick the ranch into shape". That, to me, sounds like Randall was in love, otherwise he probably wouldn't have left LaShawn.

I dunno if Randall knew about Ennis - I doubt Jack would have told him, cos that I think that Jack felt that his relationship with Ennis was private. I also don't think that he would have told the guy that he was "with" that he had another guy. Maybe Randall found out later on? Who knows.

browneyes · « **Reply #9 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 08:52 AM »

I don't think Jack's dad mentioned Randall left LaShaun. He told Ennis Jack's plans and they were: Jack's going to bring Randall, Jack's gonna split up with his wife, and go back to his dad's ranch. But it never came to pass. That doesn't necessarily mean it didn't come to pass because Jack died. It could mean maybe even Randall didn't want a life with Jack too. Or Jack knew in his heart he wouldn't be happy with Randall. But Jack's dad never mentioned that Randall left his wife, if he was he would say someting like "They're gonna split up with their wives". But he only refered to Jack who had a plan to leave his wife. Who knows maybe randall did love Jack, or maybe he and Jack made an agreement to keep their relationship physical and don't fall in love. Because Jack sure as hell couldn't fall in love with Randall.

welshwitch · « **Reply #10 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 09:21 AM »

You don't have to fall in love with sopmeone who's just a sexual partner -it's not a law of nature. I always assumed Randall was gay and knew it, and that LaShawn was just a convenient cover-up - hello, ranch-foreman, hello ranch-foreman's wife, how conventional and normal. I assume that because she drives me nuts, she drives every man within range nuts as well, and Randall was just what she settled for because that was what she could get.

As for Jack taking Randall to Lightning Flat, who knows? I tend to think it was just one of Jack's ideas - in reality would his father have put up with having him there with one of his " friends"? It would be pretty hard to hide the relationship stuck out on the ranch with no-one much else around.

stacp · « **Reply #11 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 10:03 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 05, 2006, 09:21 AM

You don't have to fall in love with sopmeone who's just a sexual partner -it's not a law of nature. I always assumed Randall was gay and knew it, and that LaShawn was just a convenient cover-up - hello, ranch-foreman, hello ranch-foreman's wife, how conventional and normal. I assume that because she drives me nuts, she drives every man within range nuts as well, and Randall was just what she settled for because that was what she could get.

As for Jack taking Randall to Lightning Flat, who knows? I tend to think it was just one of Jack's ideas - in reality would his father have put up with having him there with one of his " friends"? It would be pretty hard to hide the relationship stuck out on the ranch with no-one much else around.

I tend to agree that the bringing Randall up to LF was just one of Jack's big ideas. All throughout the movie, we see what a big dreamer Jack is and how his ideas never come to pass: The calf and cow operation with Ennis; his rodeo career; the idea of Ennis moving to Texas. So, following this pattern, it's not such a leap to say that Jack's idea to bring Randall up to LF is just one of the times he is "thinking out loud." I don't think Jack could've followed through with it though; I don't think he would've been happy with Randall, and Jack knew it. Jack's heart had decided on Ennis long ago.

browneyes · « **Reply #12 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 10:08 AM »

I agree. If he was happy with Randall (assuming they had an affiar for 5 years). Then Jack wouldn't keep seeing Ennis everytime he got.

welshwitch · « **Reply #13 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 10:15 AM »

After being rejected so often by Ennis, Jack may have seen Randall as at least another possibility, and a more acceptable one than staying in an empty marriage with a woman more obsessed with money than her family. Randall made the first move, showed an interest ( as Jack once did with Ennis), was available, relatively near, and camouflaged by being married to a sort of Southern belle type- LaShawn reminds me of some of the dimmer females in"Gone with the Wind" - didn't have any of Ennis's complications. when ennis wasn't there and wasn't going to be there for lengthy periods, maybe Randall just filled the gap and didn't seem too bad until Ennis was there again, at which point he faded into insignificance. They led pretty compartmentalized lives, after all.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #14 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 01:58 PM »

This scene where there inside the dance hall gets me . It seems like Jack has to rescue Randall's ass from LaShawn's endless rambling on and on by asking her to dance. By this time everyone is sqirming and embarassed by her endless chatter about the " pokey little town of Childress".......etc. Jack locks eyes with the uncomfortable Randall and figues he needs a break. IMHO for sure.Outside later Randall comes on to Jack after he figures it's safe, Gaydar maybe? I don't know but Jack gets the pictue,and judging by his facial expression ,He's thinking about Ennis.OR.... He's thinking d" does'nt anyone do anything but fish"? and how would he explain another " fishin buddy " to Lureen? Smiles.

edgar · « **Reply #15 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 02:03 PM »

In another thread somewhere, someone noted that Jack does not look directly at LaShawn when he says, "You wanna dance"; in fact, he may be looking at Randall.

Other possible motivations to dance with LaShawn: he snubs Lureen, who's being a bit *meow* at the moment, and he is a good dancer, who shows off his physique to Randall during the dance. (Randall would be expected to/excused for looking at the man dancing with his wife...)

aintfoolin · « **Reply #16 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 02:10 PM »

Maybe he should've tripped everybody out and asked to dance with Randall. Just kiddin.

welshwitch · « **Reply #17 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 03:34 PM »

It all loooks rather hasty on the screen, but LaShawn in the middle of the prattle says that Jack and Lureen have rescued them when their pickup broke down, and presumably brought them to the dance, so they must have got to know each other already; you wouldn't exactly have to make conversation with LaShawn around. If you spent any time with Jack and Lureen, I should think the vibes would be obvious; Lureen's picking at Jack and patronising LaSahwn + wouldn't take a genius to see that Randall just puts up with LaSahwn - so maybe Randall had already figured out he could make a move on Jack.

*o)There's also a hint of the broken-down pickup/accident tale Lureen tells Ennis about Jack's death.

KatKat · « **Reply #18 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 03:50 PM »

i don;t think jack loves Randall 1/4 aas much as he does to Ennis..
they are together for 5 year just because Jack needs a guy whom he can always see, and Randall has had enough of his wife...

welshwitch · « **Reply #19 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 06:33 AM »

I don't know whether he loves Randall at all. This relationship always seems to be one of expediency more than passion.

tpe · « **Reply #20 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 06:59 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 06, 2006, 06:33 AM

I don't know whether he loves Randall at all. This relationship always seems to be one of expediency more than passion.

Some people fall in love with the idea of marriage, rather than with the partner. I do think ity is similar in the case of Jack with Randall. He so desperately wanted to share a life with somebody else -- to care and be cared for. He probably had some affection for Randall, but it was not the form of deep love that Jack had for Ennis.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #21 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 07:35 AM »

Randall represented stability for Jack IMO. A ranch foreman, settled,and easy to talk to. Something had to be there for him to stay 5 yrs with him. But it was nothing commpared to the love he had for Ennis. By this point Ennis and Jack have long history together. He really knew Ennis, and continued to meet him throughout the affair with Randall In the last meeting Jack lies to Ennis about the affair, saying it was LaShawn he was seeing. to me this implies that Jack was keeping Randall on the back burner in case he decided once and for all Ennis would'nt or could'nt share the sweet life he so desparately wanted.Even took Randall to meet his parents on Lightning Flat.

tpe · « **Reply #22 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 07:39 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jul 06, 2006, 07:35 AM

Randall represented stability for Jack IMO. A ranch foreman, settled,and easy to talk to. Something had to be there for him to stay 5 yrs with him. But it was nothing commpared to the love he had for Ennis. By this point Ennis and Jack have long history together. He really knew Ennis, and continued to meet him throughout the affair with Randall In the last meeting Jack lies to Ennis about the affair, saying it was LaShawn he was seeing. to me this implies that Jack was keeping Randall on the back burner in case he decided once and for all Ennis would'nt or could'nt share the sweet life he so desparately wanted.Even took Randall to meet his parents on Lightning Flat.

If Randall did in fact acquiese to live a shared life with Jack, then at least for that, he deserves Jack's affection, if not his deep love. Thanks, aintfoolin.

welshwitch · « **Reply #23 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 01:55 PM »

Yes, stability and an alternative to Ennis if necessary seems right. So one should feel sorry for Randall too, just another person caught up in the Jack and Ennis thing who ended up with only part of someone's affection - like Alma and Lureen.

tpe · « **Reply #24 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 07:53 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 06, 2006, 01:55 PM

Yes, stability and an alternative to Ennis if necessary seems right. So one should feel sorry for Randall too, just another person caught up in the Jack and Ennis thing who ended up with only part of someone's affection - like Alma and Lureen.

How many times in real life do we find that a marriage for convenience takes precedence over romantic love? Don't get me wrong: love can certainly take root on the soil of pragmatism, and romantic love can be naive and foolish. But too many times, true love is spurned due to an inability to dream...

welshwitch · « **Reply #25 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 08:28 AM »

You're assuming than that what Jack and Ennis have is, to quote the slogan, the real thing . Certainly Lureen was to some degree a marriage of convenience and Randall a liaison of convenience and what about the guy in Mexico - a physical release of convenience? I can see Jack in two ways ( like those Elizabethan pictures that look different from either side) - either he's so highly sexed he can't cope and will take whoeverhe can get if Ennis isn't there, or he knows he's met the love of his life and since he can't be with him is thrashing around trying to find something to dull the pain - which is where Randall comes in, maybe.

tpe · « **Reply #26 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 08:38 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 07, 2006, 08:28 AM

You're assuming than that what Jack and Ennis have is, to quote the slogan, the real thing . Certainly Lureen was to some degree a marriage of convenience and Randall a liaison of convenience and what about the guy in Mexico - a physical release of convenience? I can see Jack in two ways ( like those Elizabethan pictures that look different from either side) - either he's so highly sexed he can't cope and will take whoeverhe can get if Ennis isn't there, or he knows he's met the love of his life and since he can't be with him is thrashing around trying to find something to dull the pain - which is where Randall comes in, maybe.

Randall is the opiate to dull the pain.

:\'(

frances · « **Reply #27 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 11:23 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jul 07, 2006, 08:38 AM

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 07, 2006, 08:28 AM
You're assuming than that what Jack and Ennis have is, to quote the slogan, the real thing . Certainly Lureen was to some degree a marriage of convenience and Randall a liaison of convenience and what about the guy in Mexico - a physical release of convenience? I can see Jack in two ways ( like those Elizabethan pictures that look different from either side) - either he's so highly sexed he can't cope and will take whoeverhe can get if Ennis isn't there, or he knows he's met the love of his life and since he can't be with him is thrashing around trying to find something to dull the pain - which is where Randall comes in, maybe.

Randall is the opiate to dull the pain. :\'(

When Randall starts talking about going out to the house on the lake to do a little fishin', drink a little whisky... "Ya know?"... Jack knows what Randall means, but the look on his face, in his eyes... is all about Ennis, he's thinking of Ennis even if he does take Randall up on his offer later on out of loneliness.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #28 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 11:50 AM »

I totally agree with this. But does anyone notice that when jack can't be with Ennis He has a pattern of getting it somewhere else{IT, meaning sex}. He won't be denied. Is Jack a slut? or is he normal?

tpe · « **Reply #29 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 11:57 AM »

Thanks frances and aintfoolin.

Jack's reaction to frustration with Ennis is not strange to me. I suspect his case is more common in real life than with Ennis. We should note that what makes Jack so poigniant a chanarcter is the all too human element in his actions and his all so familiar failings. He is a mirror of what life can be when denial and frustration take their toll. He is truly human -- achingly so.